In Disfigured Man, Pope Francis Saw Jesus

In his embrace with a disfigured man in St. Peter’s Square, the pope saw more than we might initially realize or understand.

What did the pope see when he embraced a disfigured man in St. Peter’s Square?

If you read news reports about the scene, the answer is clear: the pope saw someone who was suffering; someone in need of compassion.

And certainly that is what many of us saw as well. We witnessed an elevated religious leader touch someone whom many would find untouchable.

Many of us also briefly imagined how much we ourselves would yearn to be embraced if we were covered in boils and knotted in pain.

Compassion is indeed a Christian response, and it is different from pity. Compassion realizes the kinship that all human beings share. Compassion also acknowledges what can often seem to be the terrible caprice of life. Some people are born beautiful in ways that all can recognize; others are born and they look different—and for that very reason they are looked on differently as “other.”

When we feel compassion for someone, we understand that there but for the unfathomable grace of God goes anyone and everyone.

Those of us who saw compassion on display in St. Peter’s Square were not mistaken.

But I do believe that the pope saw more than we might initially realize or understand.

I was reminded of a discussion I had with an Indian nun some 30 years ago. She worked for the Missionaries of Charity—Mother Theresa’s order—and she explained to me how the previous night a man had come in with a festering wound in his leg. The nun told me of her own shame when she found it difficult to clean his wounds. She could not bear the horrible smell.

She told me that it was difficult to see Jesus in the ugly and diseased—to see Jesus as ugly and diseased.

I later became aware of some of the nun’s fellow sisters who would drink the water used to wash wounds like those of the man with the festering leg. The hagiographies of the saints are filled with such stories: they challenge our sensibilities, however compassionate we may feel toward the sick and suffering.

But these nuns, and those saints, were able to move beyond their own revulsion at disease and disfigurement to see something more, something beautiful and precious.

To be Catholic is to be able to look beyond external appearances. At every mass Catholics do this when they look beyond the external appearances of bread and wine to see Christ’s flesh and blood.

That day with the disfigured man, the pope doubtless saw pain and suffering.

But he also looked beyond that reality to see something more, something beautiful and precious.

Pope Francis saw Jesus.

Image courtesy of Semilla Luz.

Mathew N. Schmalz
Written by
  • tombukowski

    I appreciate the Pope’s compassion, but to claim compassion is a Christian thing, or belongs to religion alone, does a terrible disservice to everyone else. Stop trying to be special.

  • tombukowski

    I appreciate the Pope’s compassion, but to claim compassion is a Christian thing, or belongs to religion alone, does a terrible disservice to everyone else. Stop trying to be special.

  • Black Joule

    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

  • Black Joule

    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

  • Artissimus

    God Bless Pope Francis.

  • Artissimus

    God Bless Pope Francis.

  • n1176m

    Compassion is not an only Christian thing, but to have someone in Pope Francis show compassion is rare in many Christian Churches.

    Also, look at what many Congressional representatives, who claim to be Christian are doing to the poor and sick. Many would not even let an aide do such a thing.

    If we had a Pope like this 400 years ago, all Christians would still be Catholic.

  • n1176m

    Compassion is not an only Christian thing, but to have someone in Pope Francis show compassion is rare in many Christian Churches.

    Also, look at what many Congressional representatives, who claim to be Christian are doing to the poor and sick. Many would not even let an aide do such a thing.

    If we had a Pope like this 400 years ago, all Christians would still be Catholic.

  • SeniorMoment

    I may be a stretch to look at someone who is disfigured and assume that means they are in pain. Some people are for example born that way or in other disfigured ways because of an accident, medication at the wrong time for the fetus, etc. I have meant several people who were disfigured in the womb by x-rays of mothers who either didn’t know they were pregnant or got very bad medical advice and treatment.

  • SeniorMoment

    I may be a stretch to look at someone who is disfigured and assume that means they are in pain. Some people are for example born that way or in other disfigured ways because of an accident, medication at the wrong time for the fetus, etc. I have meant several people who were disfigured in the womb by x-rays of mothers who either didn’t know they were pregnant or got very bad medical advice and treatment.

  • Black Joule

    In ethical terms, the various expressions down the ages of the so-called Golden Rule often embodies by implication the principle of compassion: Do to others what you would have them do to you !

  • Black Joule

    In ethical terms, the various expressions down the ages of the so-called Golden Rule often embodies by implication the principle of compassion: Do to others what you would have them do to you !

  • CCNL

    Said man is added circumstantial evidence that there is no god.

  • CCNL

    Said man is added circumstantial evidence that there is no god.

  • jdpetric

    Mr. Schmalz writes, “To be Catholic is to be able to look beyond external appearances.”

    Unfortunately, this is true for most Catholic. One would have to disregard and ignore Jesus teaching to know the fruits of false teachers with not only the false doctrines but also their un-Christian like history and be led by them.

    ““Be on the watch for the false prophets that come to YOU in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. By their fruits you will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? Likewise every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit; a good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, neither can a rotten tree produce fine fruit.  Every tree not producing fine fruit gets cut down and thrown into the fire. Really, then, by their fruits you will recognize those [men].” Matthew 7:15-20

  • jdpetric

    Mr. Schmalz writes, “To be Catholic is to be able to look beyond external appearances.”

    Unfortunately, this is true for most Catholic. One would have to disregard and ignore Jesus teaching to know the fruits of false teachers with not only the false doctrines but also their un-Christian like history and be led by them.

    ““Be on the watch for the false prophets that come to YOU in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. By their fruits you will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? Likewise every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit; a good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, neither can a rotten tree produce fine fruit.  Every tree not producing fine fruit gets cut down and thrown into the fire. Really, then, by their fruits you will recognize those [men].” Matthew 7:15-20

  • cab50151

    Unfortunately, this man had a genetic disease that is indeed very painful. Also, in addition, the abhorrence that people displayed when they saw him had to be even more painful than that.

  • cab50151

    Unfortunately, this man had a genetic disease that is indeed very painful. Also, in addition, the abhorrence that people displayed when they saw him had to be even more painful than that.

  • jempy

    He show us what to do with people looking different, going toward them instead of avoiding them …

  • jempy

    He show us what to do with people looking different, going toward them instead of avoiding them …

  • jdpetric

    Sorry, but it was as noted by many other scholars.

  • jdpetric

    Sorry, but it was as noted by many other scholars.

  • GerriM

    Drinking the water that washed the wounds??! Please let’s not be self-destructive. How unhealthy and asinine.

  • GerriM

    Drinking the water that washed the wounds??! Please let’s not be self-destructive. How unhealthy and asinine.

  • Ilikethenats

    Right on!, what a far out concept. In a world where Syria has dominated the scene, Nort Korea has acted unbelievably stupid, and every other day a teenager commits suicide due to cyber bullying. This story and the characters involve actually give me hope.

    Damn! That’s something I have not had in a long time. I am going to enjoy it for the next couple of minutes.

  • Ilikethenats

    Right on!, what a far out concept. In a world where Syria has dominated the scene, Nort Korea has acted unbelievably stupid, and every other day a teenager commits suicide due to cyber bullying. This story and the characters involve actually give me hope.

    Damn! That’s something I have not had in a long time. I am going to enjoy it for the next couple of minutes.

  • CCNL

    Some starting references for those in search of the historic Jesus:

    o 1. Historical Jesus Theories, earlychristianwritings.com/theories.htm – the names of many of the contemporary historical Jesus scholars and the titles of their over 100 books on the subject.

    2. Early Christian Writings, earlychristianwritings.com/
    – a list of early Christian documents to include the year of publication to include a review of each–

  • CCNL

    Some starting references for those in search of the historic Jesus:

    o 1. Historical Jesus Theories, earlychristianwritings.com/theories.htm – the names of many of the contemporary historical Jesus scholars and the titles of their over 100 books on the subject.

    2. Early Christian Writings, earlychristianwritings.com/
    – a list of early Christian documents to include the year of publication to include a review of each–

  • Sean Hellier

    I have always hated religion. I hate its contempt for gays (like me), for its rejection of modernity, its frauds, always screeching “CALL THE NUMBER ON THE SCREEN! SOW YOUR SEED! Preacher needs a new Maserati!.”

    But mostly, I’ve hated the way religious figures always seem to be cozied up to right wing power. “Prosperity Gospel” and “Muscular Christianity.” All of it just a shill for mean spirited corruption. All of it teaching that God is a kind of Dick Cheney, laughing maniacally while pulling the wings off of something.

    It’s why I left Mother Church. It’s why I never really believed a word of it.

    And then comes a Pope who delivers the most simple message I’ve ever heard. A message I’ve never heard before, but one, that resonates in every fiber of my being as truth.

    The world hungers for the message this simple man delivers. He makes you want to go to church and hear more. He makes you want to be like him. He makes you want to be this odd thing called Christian. He makes you curious to know what this thing that he calls the Gospels really is.

    I want to hear more.

  • Sean Hellier

    I have always hated religion. I hate its contempt for gays (like me), for its rejection of modernity, its frauds, always screeching “CALL THE NUMBER ON THE SCREEN! SOW YOUR SEED! Preacher needs a new Maserati!.”

    But mostly, I’ve hated the way religious figures always seem to be cozied up to right wing power. “Prosperity Gospel” and “Muscular Christianity.” All of it just a shill for mean spirited corruption. All of it teaching that God is a kind of Dick Cheney, laughing maniacally while pulling the wings off of something.

    It’s why I left Mother Church. It’s why I never really believed a word of it.

    And then comes a Pope who delivers the most simple message I’ve ever heard. A message I’ve never heard before, but one, that resonates in every fiber of my being as truth.

    The world hungers for the message this simple man delivers. He makes you want to go to church and hear more. He makes you want to be like him. He makes you want to be this odd thing called Christian. He makes you curious to know what this thing that he calls the Gospels really is.

    I want to hear more.

  • jdpetric

    “Matt 7: 15-20 was not uttered by the historic Jesus. See what many

    “many contemporary NT scholars have concluded” ??? Compare to how many that don’t ??? ”

    Historical Jesus Theories”. Really, just theories ???

  • jdpetric

    “Matt 7: 15-20 was not uttered by the historic Jesus. See what many

    “many contemporary NT scholars have concluded” ??? Compare to how many that don’t ??? ”

    Historical Jesus Theories”. Really, just theories ???

  • jdpetric

    Sorry, it sounds just like a lot of useless information, speculation and conjecture, as do you. So I won’t be wasting my time reading the books. The Bible exists, and there are scrolls and manuscripts in support of it’s contents. Further, there are far more scholars that have confirmed it’s authenticity.

  • jdpetric

    Sorry, it sounds just like a lot of useless information, speculation and conjecture, as do you. So I won’t be wasting my time reading the books. The Bible exists, and there are scrolls and manuscripts in support of it’s contents. Further, there are far more scholars that have confirmed it’s authenticity.

  • jdpetric

    And more you shall have from the Gospels:

    “ But he (Jesus) said to them: “Also to other cities I must declare the good news of the kingdom of God, because for this I was sent forth.” (Luke 4:43)

    This was the same :Kingdom” Jesus said we should pray for to “Come” at Matthew 6:10.

    And the same “Kingdom” Jesus said at Matthew 24:14, “And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.”

    If this was as important as Jesus said, why is it this Pope and all the others say nothing of the “good news of God’s Kingdom” ?

    Could it be that “it’s a mystery” to them ?

    Could it be that Jesus words at Luke 8:10 have come to fruition, “He (Jesus) said: “To you it is granted to understand the sacred secrets of the kingdom of God, but for the rest it is in illustrations, in order that, though looking, they may look in vain and, though hearing, they may not get the meaning.”

  • jdpetric

    And more you shall have from the Gospels:

    “ But he (Jesus) said to them: “Also to other cities I must declare the good news of the kingdom of God, because for this I was sent forth.” (Luke 4:43)

    This was the same :Kingdom” Jesus said we should pray for to “Come” at Matthew 6:10.

    And the same “Kingdom” Jesus said at Matthew 24:14, “And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.”

    If this was as important as Jesus said, why is it this Pope and all the others say nothing of the “good news of God’s Kingdom” ?

    Could it be that “it’s a mystery” to them ?

    Could it be that Jesus words at Luke 8:10 have come to fruition, “He (Jesus) said: “To you it is granted to understand the sacred secrets of the kingdom of God, but for the rest it is in illustrations, in order that, though looking, they may look in vain and, though hearing, they may not get the meaning.”

  • Carol Kalvelage

    Mr. Schultz- This is the most brilliant article that I have read regarding Pope Francia and his compassion. Thank you for such an eloquent and emotionally stirring piece. Pope Francis is a man of pure love and compassion, just as you stated. I’m grateful that we still have authentic writers and professors to teach us more about what we need to hear.

  • Carol Kalvelage

    Mr. Schultz- This is the most brilliant article that I have read regarding Pope Francia and his compassion. Thank you for such an eloquent and emotionally stirring piece. Pope Francis is a man of pure love and compassion, just as you stated. I’m grateful that we still have authentic writers and professors to teach us more about what we need to hear.

  • CCNL

    Please cite your reliable references supporting that the Bible is historically accurate.

    And so you don’t have to go beyond this tread, some added notes about the OT/Torah:

    reiterate.

    New Torah For Modern Minds

    “Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed. Nor did Moses. (prob•a•bly
    Adverb: Almost certainly; as far as one knows or can tell).

    The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never occurred. The same is true of the tumbling of the walls of Jericho. And David, far from being the fearless king who built Jerusalem into a mighty capital, was more likely a provincial leader whose reputation was later magnified to provide a rallying point for a fledgling nation.

    Such startling propositions — the product of findings by archaeologists digging in Israel and its environs over the last 25 years — have gained wide acceptance among non-Orthodox rabbis. But there has been no attempt to disseminate these ideas or to discuss them with the laity — until now.

    The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism, which represents the 1.5 million Conservative Jews in the United States, has just issued a new Torah and commentary, the first for Conservatives in more than 60 years. Called ”Etz Hayim” (”Tree of Life” in Hebrew), it offers an interpretation that incorporates the latest findings from archaeology, philology, anthropology and the study of ancient cultures. To the editors who worked on the book, it represents one of the boldest efforts ever to introduce into the religious mainstream a view of the Bible as a human rather than divine document.

  • CCNL

    Please cite your reliable references supporting that the Bible is historically accurate.

    And so you don’t have to go beyond this tread, some added notes about the OT/Torah:

    reiterate.

    New Torah For Modern Minds

    “Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed. Nor did Moses. (prob•a•bly
    Adverb: Almost certainly; as far as one knows or can tell).

    The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never occurred. The same is true of the tumbling of the walls of Jericho. And David, far from being the fearless king who built Jerusalem into a mighty capital, was more likely a provincial leader whose reputation was later magnified to provide a rallying point for a fledgling nation.

    Such startling propositions — the product of findings by archaeologists digging in Israel and its environs over the last 25 years — have gained wide acceptance among non-Orthodox rabbis. But there has been no attempt to disseminate these ideas or to discuss them with the laity — until now.

    The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism, which represents the 1.5 million Conservative Jews in the United States, has just issued a new Torah and commentary, the first for Conservatives in more than 60 years. Called ”Etz Hayim” (”Tree of Life” in Hebrew), it offers an interpretation that incorporates the latest findings from archaeology, philology, anthropology and the study of ancient cultures. To the editors who worked on the book, it represents one of the boldest efforts ever to introduce into the religious mainstream a view of the Bible as a human rather than divine document.

  • jdpetric

    Oh you’ll have to do the research yourself. Try Google. And the United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism can believe as they wish.

  • jdpetric

    Oh you’ll have to do the research yourself. Try Google. And the United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism can believe as they wish.

  • WesleyMcgranor

    A conniving and perverse P.R. attempt. Rome you filthy wh*r*.

  • WesleyMcgranor

    A conniving and perverse P.R. attempt. Rome you filthy wh*r*.

  • CCNL

    Required reading for those seeking the historic Jesus.

    From reference 2 above:

    30-60 CE Passion Narrative
    40-80 Lost Sayings Gospel Q
    50-60 1 Thessalonians
    50-60 Philippians
    50-60 Galatians
    50-60 1 Corinthians
    50-60 2 Corinthians
    50-60 Romans
    50-60 Philemon
    50-80 Colossians
    50-90 Signs Gospel
    50-95 Book of Hebrews
    50-120 Didache
    50-140 Gospel of Thomas
    50-140 Oxyrhynchus 1224 Gospel
    50-200 Sophia of Jesus Christ
    65-80 Gospel of Mark
    70-100 Epistle of James
    70-120 Egerton Gospel
    70-160 Gospel of Peter
    70-160 Secret Mark
    70-200 Fayyum Fragment
    70-200 Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs
    73-200 Mara Bar Serapion
    80-100 2 Thessalonians
    80-100 Ephesians
    80-100 Gospel of Matthew
    80-110 1 Peter
    80-120 Epistle of Barnabas
    80-130 Gospel of Luke
    80-130 Acts of the Apostles
    80-140 1 Clement
    80-150 Gospel of the Egyptians
    80-150 Gospel of the Hebrews
    80-250 Christian Sibyllines
    90-95 Apocalypse of John
    90-120 Gospel of John
    90-120 1 John
    90-120 2 John
    90-120 3 John
    90-120 Epistle of Jude
    93 Flavius Josephus
    100-150 1 Timothy
    100-150 2 Timothy
    100-150 T-itus
    100-150 Apocalypse of Peter
    100-150 Secret Book of James
    100-150 Preaching of Peter
    100-160 Gospel of the Ebionites
    100-160 Gospel of the Nazoreans
    100-160 Shepherd of Hermas
    100-160 2 Peter

  • CCNL

    Required reading for those seeking the historic Jesus.

    From reference 2 above:

    30-60 CE Passion Narrative
    40-80 Lost Sayings Gospel Q
    50-60 1 Thessalonians
    50-60 Philippians
    50-60 Galatians
    50-60 1 Corinthians
    50-60 2 Corinthians
    50-60 Romans
    50-60 Philemon
    50-80 Colossians
    50-90 Signs Gospel
    50-95 Book of Hebrews
    50-120 Didache
    50-140 Gospel of Thomas
    50-140 Oxyrhynchus 1224 Gospel
    50-200 Sophia of Jesus Christ
    65-80 Gospel of Mark
    70-100 Epistle of James
    70-120 Egerton Gospel
    70-160 Gospel of Peter
    70-160 Secret Mark
    70-200 Fayyum Fragment
    70-200 Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs
    73-200 Mara Bar Serapion
    80-100 2 Thessalonians
    80-100 Ephesians
    80-100 Gospel of Matthew
    80-110 1 Peter
    80-120 Epistle of Barnabas
    80-130 Gospel of Luke
    80-130 Acts of the Apostles
    80-140 1 Clement
    80-150 Gospel of the Egyptians
    80-150 Gospel of the Hebrews
    80-250 Christian Sibyllines
    90-95 Apocalypse of John
    90-120 Gospel of John
    90-120 1 John
    90-120 2 John
    90-120 3 John
    90-120 Epistle of Jude
    93 Flavius Josephus
    100-150 1 Timothy
    100-150 2 Timothy
    100-150 T-itus
    100-150 Apocalypse of Peter
    100-150 Secret Book of James
    100-150 Preaching of Peter
    100-160 Gospel of the Ebionites
    100-160 Gospel of the Nazoreans
    100-160 Shepherd of Hermas
    100-160 2 Peter

  • jdpetric

    So if the United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism, which represents the 1.5 million Conservative Jews in the United States, believe that Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed. Nor did Moses …The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never occurred …. are they denying Israel’s claim to the promise land ??? Do they deny their Hebrew ancestry ??? Are they ready to submit their findings to the government of Israel to end the Jewish claim for an Israeli State in the Middle east ??? Are they willing to pay retribution for the deaths of the many Palestinians ???

  • jdpetric

    So if the United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism, which represents the 1.5 million Conservative Jews in the United States, believe that Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed. Nor did Moses …The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never occurred …. are they denying Israel’s claim to the promise land ??? Do they deny their Hebrew ancestry ??? Are they ready to submit their findings to the government of Israel to end the Jewish claim for an Israeli State in the Middle east ??? Are they willing to pay retribution for the deaths of the many Palestinians ???

  • CCNL

    Once again, Francis is a good man but his he needs to address his religion’s very flawed theology starting with the resurrection.

  • CCNL

    Once again, Francis is a good man but his he needs to address his religion’s very flawed theology starting with the resurrection.

  • CCNL

    Of the “thumped” passages, only Matt 6:10 passages rigorous historic testing.

  • CCNL

    Of the “thumped” passages, only Matt 6:10 passages rigorous historic testing.

  • jimwalters1

    Is this the same “rigorous historic testing” you applied to your own recent claim that Jesus was illiterate and mentally ill?

  • jimwalters1

    Is this the same “rigorous historic testing” you applied to your own recent claim that Jesus was illiterate and mentally ill?

  • CCNL

    The NT claims he was mentally ill.

    To wit:

    . JC’s family and friends had it right 2000 years ago ( Mark 3: 21 “And when his friends heard of it, they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself.”)

    Said passage is one of the few judged to be authentic by most contemporary NT scholars. e.g. See Professor Ludemann’s conclusion in his book, Jesus After 2000 Years, p. 24 and p. 694.

    Actually, Jesus was a bit “touched”. After all he thought he spoke to Satan, thought he changed water into wine, thought he raised Lazarus from the dead etc. In today’s world, said Jesus would be declared legally insane.

    Or did P, M, M, L and J simply make him into a first century magic-man via their epistles and gospels of semi-fiction? Many contemporary NT experts after thorough analyses of all the scriptures go with the latter magic-man conclusion with J’s gospel being mostly fiction.

    Obviously, today’s followers of Paul et al’s “magic-man” are also a bit on the odd side believing in all the Christian mumbo jumbo about bodies resurrecting, and exorcisms, and miracles, and “magic-man atonement, and infallible, old, European/Utah white men, and 24/7 body/blood sacrifices followed by consumption of said sacrifices. Yummy!!!!

    So why do we really care what a first century CE, illiterate, long-dead, preacher/magic man would do or say?

  • CCNL

    The NT claims he was mentally ill.

    To wit:

    . JC’s family and friends had it right 2000 years ago ( Mark 3: 21 “And when his friends heard of it, they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself.”)

    Said passage is one of the few judged to be authentic by most contemporary NT scholars. e.g. See Professor Ludemann’s conclusion in his book, Jesus After 2000 Years, p. 24 and p. 694.

    Actually, Jesus was a bit “touched”. After all he thought he spoke to Satan, thought he changed water into wine, thought he raised Lazarus from the dead etc. In today’s world, said Jesus would be declared legally insane.

    Or did P, M, M, L and J simply make him into a first century magic-man via their epistles and gospels of semi-fiction? Many contemporary NT experts after thorough analyses of all the scriptures go with the latter magic-man conclusion with J’s gospel being mostly fiction.

    Obviously, today’s followers of Paul et al’s “magic-man” are also a bit on the odd side believing in all the Christian mumbo jumbo about bodies resurrecting, and exorcisms, and miracles, and “magic-man atonement, and infallible, old, European/Utah white men, and 24/7 body/blood sacrifices followed by consumption of said sacrifices. Yummy!!!!

    So why do we really care what a first century CE, illiterate, long-dead, preacher/magic man would do or say?

  • jdpetric

    Speculation CCNL, pure cut and post speculation.

  • jdpetric

    Speculation CCNL, pure cut and post speculation.

  • jdpetric

    “The NT claims he was mentally ill.
    EXAMPLE:
    To wit:

    . JC’s family and friends had it right 2000 years ago ( Mark 3: 21 “And when his friends heard of it, they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself.”)

    Wrong CCNL, because they “thought” he might be “out of his mind”. You’ve manage to twist the Scripture to suit you faulty claim.

    Mark 3:21-22, “But when his relatives heard about it, they went out to lay hold of him, for they were saying: “He has gone out of his mind.”  Also, the scribes that came down from Jerusalem were saying: “He has Be·el′ze·bub, and he expels the demons by means of the ruler of the demons.”
    What did they hear about ??? Mark 3:10-11 had explained why, “ For he cured many, with the result that all those who had grievous diseases were falling upon him to touch him. Even the unclean spirits, whenever they would behold him, would prostrate themselves before him and cry out, saying: “You are the Son of God.” ” So he was the Son of God, which he proved by his miracles, not out of his mind.

  • jdpetric

    “The NT claims he was mentally ill.
    EXAMPLE:
    To wit:

    . JC’s family and friends had it right 2000 years ago ( Mark 3: 21 “And when his friends heard of it, they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself.”)

    Wrong CCNL, because they “thought” he might be “out of his mind”. You’ve manage to twist the Scripture to suit you faulty claim.

    Mark 3:21-22, “But when his relatives heard about it, they went out to lay hold of him, for they were saying: “He has gone out of his mind.”  Also, the scribes that came down from Jerusalem were saying: “He has Be·el′ze·bub, and he expels the demons by means of the ruler of the demons.”
    What did they hear about ??? Mark 3:10-11 had explained why, “ For he cured many, with the result that all those who had grievous diseases were falling upon him to touch him. Even the unclean spirits, whenever they would behold him, would prostrate themselves before him and cry out, saying: “You are the Son of God.” ” So he was the Son of God, which he proved by his miracles, not out of his mind.

  • moormanator

    Without the resurrection, you don’t have Christianity.

  • moormanator

    Without the resurrection, you don’t have Christianity.

  • CCNL

    That is indeed correct.

    As per Paul:

    From that famous passage: In 1 Corinthians 15: 14, Paul reasoned, “If Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith.”

  • CCNL

    That is indeed correct.

    As per Paul:

    From that famous passage: In 1 Corinthians 15: 14, Paul reasoned, “If Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith.”

  • CCNL

    What miracles? All the “miracles” have failed rigorous historic testing.

    An example, the Resurrection “miracle”:

    A short synopsis of the Resurrection Con, a shorter version:

    “Heaven is a Spirit state” as per JPII and Aquinas i.e. there can be no bodies. i.e. there was and never will be any physical resurrection/ascension of human bodies.”

    And is it not ironical that JPII along with Aquinas are the ones who put meaning to the words “If Christ has not been raised, your faith is useless” 1 Corinthians 15

  • CCNL

    What miracles? All the “miracles” have failed rigorous historic testing.

    An example, the Resurrection “miracle”:

    A short synopsis of the Resurrection Con, a shorter version:

    “Heaven is a Spirit state” as per JPII and Aquinas i.e. there can be no bodies. i.e. there was and never will be any physical resurrection/ascension of human bodies.”

    And is it not ironical that JPII along with Aquinas are the ones who put meaning to the words “If Christ has not been raised, your faith is useless” 1 Corinthians 15

  • CCNL

    And then there is the changing of water into wine at Cana, John 2: 1-11—

    From Professor John P. Meier, University of Notre Dame:

    “Meier discusses this epidose at some length [Marginal Jew II,934-50], before concluding:

    “In sum, when one adds these historical difficulties to the massive amount of Johannine
    literary and theological traits permeating the whole story, it is difficult to identify
    any “historical kernel” or “core event” that might have a claim to go back to the historical
    Jesus. Put another way: if we subtract from the eleven verses of the first Cana miracle every
    element that is likely to have come from the creative mind of John or his Johannine “school”
    and every element that raises historical problems, the entire pericope vanishes before our eyes.
    Many critics would assign the origin of the story to the Johannine “school” or “circle” lying behind the Gospel.

    I prefer the view that the story is a creation of the Evangelist himself, using a number of traditional themes. (p. 949)”

  • CCNL

    And then there is the changing of water into wine at Cana, John 2: 1-11—

    From Professor John P. Meier, University of Notre Dame:

    “Meier discusses this epidose at some length [Marginal Jew II,934-50], before concluding:

    “In sum, when one adds these historical difficulties to the massive amount of Johannine
    literary and theological traits permeating the whole story, it is difficult to identify
    any “historical kernel” or “core event” that might have a claim to go back to the historical
    Jesus. Put another way: if we subtract from the eleven verses of the first Cana miracle every
    element that is likely to have come from the creative mind of John or his Johannine “school”
    and every element that raises historical problems, the entire pericope vanishes before our eyes.
    Many critics would assign the origin of the story to the Johannine “school” or “circle” lying behind the Gospel.

    I prefer the view that the story is a creation of the Evangelist himself, using a number of traditional themes. (p. 949)”

  • Jenny Roca

    wow, that was hard…

  • Jenny Roca

    wow, that was hard…

  • Rongoklunk

    I’m surprised people can’t see the deliberate about-face that the Church has performed in recent times. Once upon a time ‘grotesque’ citizens would have been tortured and killed by the church for “obviously being the work of the Devil.”
    The Church tortured, burned alive and/or drowned all kinds of people who looked like they deserved it. The new pope is obviously charged with changing the rules, and pushing compassion like never before. They tried violence in every form – but there are laws against it these days. So love and compassion is all that’s left. And the Pew Research team are telling us that the trend is away from religion – especially among the young. They are being educated beyond belief in ancient superstitions. And scientists are writing books giving us much better explanations of our origins – that show the bible got everything wrong.
    The church is fighting for its life – and pope Frank is playing a role, the Jesus role – like any professional actor would play it. But it won’t help much. Grown-ups know that gods don’t exist.

  • Rongoklunk

    I’m surprised people can’t see the deliberate about-face that the Church has performed in recent times. Once upon a time ‘grotesque’ citizens would have been tortured and killed by the church for “obviously being the work of the Devil.”
    The Church tortured, burned alive and/or drowned all kinds of people who looked like they deserved it. The new pope is obviously charged with changing the rules, and pushing compassion like never before. They tried violence in every form – but there are laws against it these days. So love and compassion is all that’s left. And the Pew Research team are telling us that the trend is away from religion – especially among the young. They are being educated beyond belief in ancient superstitions. And scientists are writing books giving us much better explanations of our origins – that show the bible got everything wrong.
    The church is fighting for its life – and pope Frank is playing a role, the Jesus role – like any professional actor would play it. But it won’t help much. Grown-ups know that gods don’t exist.

  • nkri401

    That a pope showing compassion is such rare and newsworthy events tells less charitable Church, I’m afraid.

    And indeed, “compassion” may be a Christian word but ideas like mercy and kindness has been around even in non Judeo-christian culture way before the Christ Passion.

    BTW, this suffering to be saved is a very sadomasochistic idea that leads to the torturing of the heathens.

  • nkri401

    That a pope showing compassion is such rare and newsworthy events tells less charitable Church, I’m afraid.

    And indeed, “compassion” may be a Christian word but ideas like mercy and kindness has been around even in non Judeo-christian culture way before the Christ Passion.

    BTW, this suffering to be saved is a very sadomasochistic idea that leads to the torturing of the heathens.

  • jdpetric

    Ah but Christ was resurrected and appeared to many of which made them eye witnesses.

    “But God raised him up from the dead, of which fact we are witnesses.” (Acts 3:15b)
    “However, now Christ has been raised up from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep [in death]. (1Corinthisns 15:20)

  • jdpetric

    Ah but Christ was resurrected and appeared to many of which made them eye witnesses.

    “But God raised him up from the dead, of which fact we are witnesses.” (Acts 3:15b)
    “However, now Christ has been raised up from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep [in death]. (1Corinthisns 15:20)

  • jdpetric

    “And indeed, “compassion” may be a Christian word but ideas like mercy and kindness has been around even in non Judeo-christian culture way before the Christ Passion.”

    This may be true, but “generally” reserved towards one’s of one’s won society and culture. There are however exceptions. But history being the tale of the tape indicated otherwise even among mainstream Christianity, Judaism, and Islam.

  • jdpetric

    “And indeed, “compassion” may be a Christian word but ideas like mercy and kindness has been around even in non Judeo-christian culture way before the Christ Passion.”

    This may be true, but “generally” reserved towards one’s of one’s won society and culture. There are however exceptions. But history being the tale of the tape indicated otherwise even among mainstream Christianity, Judaism, and Islam.

  • jdpetric

    Correction, “This may be true, but “generally” reserved towards one’s own society and culture.”

  • jdpetric

    Correction, “This may be true, but “generally” reserved towards one’s own society and culture.”