Yes, you can be gay and Christian

Even when LGBT people have reconciled their faith and their sexual orientation or gender identity, there are those actively trying to reestablish that inner conflict.

The Pew Research Center released a study last week that examined the lives of LGBT Americans. One portion of the study, which has garnered significant media attention is the relationship between LGBT people and religion. The study found that LGBT people tended to be less religiously affiliated than the general population, and views all major religions as unfriendly toward LGBT people.

The Pew study found that just less than half (48 percent) of LGBT people have no religious affiliation which is significantly more than the 20 percent of the general public.

Some anti-gay activists will look at this figure and say, “Aha! See? Those LGBT people are anti-Christian. Look, half of them even eschew religion of any kind!”

This figure is largely of their own making. There was a time when religion (all of them) were solidly anti-gay. Human sexuality wasn’t discussed, except in hushed tones and fraught with shame. If someone came out, they had to leave everything behind. Often, their job, their family, and their faith community. While those bad old days don’t exist in the same way they once did, the stigma lingers.

Don’t believe me? Take a look at another statistic coming from the Pew study. It found that a third of religiously-affiliated LGBT adults find a conflict between their faith and their sexual orientation or gender identity. A third of people who still are religiously affiliated still feel that same conflict.

And what is even more telling is that the general population sees even more of a conflict.

“About three-quarters of white evangelical Protestants (74 percent) and a majority of all U.S. adults with a religious affiliation (55 percent) say homosexuality conflicts with their religious beliefs. Among all adults in the general public, there is a strong correlation between the frequency of church attendance and the belief that homosexuality should be discouraged.”

The stigma is still propagated. Even when LGBT people have reconciled their faith and their sexual orientation or gender identity, there are those actively trying to reestablish that inner conflict.

This was demonstrated by GLAAD’s study, Missing Voices: A Study in Religious Voices in Mainstream Media Reports about LGBT Equality, which was released last year. It found that three out of four religious spokespeople who spoke about LGBT issues were from denominations that had anti-LGBT policies or culture.

The dominant impression is that religion is inherently anti-LGBT, and the amount of work that the Religion, Faith & Values program of GLAAD, the LGBT religious organizations like the Gay Christian Network, Muslims for Progressive Values, or Keshet, alongside of so many denominational LGBT advocacy groups, has not yet changed that perception.

It also means that, for those denominations who are LGBT-inclusive, or who have made strides to become more LGBT inclusive, that there is still more work to do. The task is probably greatest for LGBT-affirming people in non-affirming religious traditions. Marianne Duddy-Burke noted what the study meant for LGBT-affirming Catholics in an article on the Huffington Post.

“If we want Catholicism to be identified as a hostile institution by four out of five LGBT people, and by many of those who support us, then let the bishops continue to own “Catholic, Inc.” However, if we truly believe in the baptismal identity we reaffirm each Easter season and want our church to be seen as a help and haven for those in need, it is time for Catholics to claim a leadership role within our church, much as we have done in the public square. We must begin to take on the bishops when they act in ways that are contrary to our central creed that God is incarnate in all humans, including LGBT people and those who love and support us.”

I say this last part as a Christian and as a gay man. LGBT and allied people of faith need to speak up. Not only for the good of the LGBT community, have who continued to face conflict in religious communities. We also need to speak up for the good of our own faith. I do the work that I do because I care about the reputation of my church in the world. If you truly love your faith and LGBT people, you must make that known. It is only by speaking out that we change the negative perception surrounding our faith communities.

Image courtesy of Peter.

Ross Murray
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  • FrenchChef

    Ever notice when the talk is about Christianity and LGBT Americans, some people just start screaming some nonsense that “those LGBT Americans (and that isn’t what they call us!) are trying to destroy Christianity!” That’s stupid to say that. Sure, there are some really rotten people that say they are Christians and that tell shameful lies about LGBT Americans, but what about all the welcoming and affirming Christians? These denominations will marry same gender couples in 12 US States and the District of Columbia, and have married them in California:

    The Association of Welcoming and Affirming Baptists
    The Episcopal Church
    Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
    Metropolitan Community Church
    Conservative Judaism
    Reform Judaism
    Religious Society of Friends (Quakers)
    Unitarian Universalist Church
    United Church of Christ

    Other individual churches are disregarding their denomination’s homophobia and are marrying same gender couples.

    These and many other denominations reject the hate speech inserted in the bible to hurt LGBT people. Modern Biblical scholars have proven the Bible was intentionally mistranslated relatively recently in order to provide “Biblical cover” for then-rising levels of homophobia. For example, the word “homosexual” didn’t even exist until 1870.

  • FrenchChef

    Ever notice when the talk is about Christianity and LGBT Americans, some people just start screaming some nonsense that “those LGBT Americans (and that isn’t what they call us!) are trying to destroy Christianity!” That’s stupid to say that. Sure, there are some really rotten people that say they are Christians and that tell shameful lies about LGBT Americans, but what about all the welcoming and affirming Christians? These denominations will marry same gender couples in 12 US States and the District of Columbia, and have married them in California:

    The Association of Welcoming and Affirming Baptists
    The Episcopal Church
    Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
    Metropolitan Community Church
    Conservative Judaism
    Reform Judaism
    Religious Society of Friends (Quakers)
    Unitarian Universalist Church
    United Church of Christ

    Other individual churches are disregarding their denomination’s homophobia and are marrying same gender couples.

    These and many other denominations reject the hate speech inserted in the bible to hurt LGBT people. Modern Biblical scholars have proven the Bible was intentionally mistranslated relatively recently in order to provide “Biblical cover” for then-rising levels of homophobia. For example, the word “homosexual” didn’t even exist until 1870.

  • PhillyJimi1

    I am an atheist but why would anyone who is (not can be) gay want to be a Christian? If you’re gay your gay act like a decent human being and be an productive member of society and if you’re lucky enough to find someone to love it is no concern of mine. I only wish the best for you and the people you care about and would have no problems being your friend.

    The bible clearly states homosexuality is an abomination. The bible is a mess of contradictions but in this specific manner it is very straight forward there is NO wiggle room. I find nothing in the bible to be particularly moral beyond common sense things like try to love each other, don’t commit murder and steal. No society is going to be successful if it teaches hate, murder and stealing.

    It seems to me if you’re gay and want to be a Christian it is like an African American wanting to join the KKK. There are plenty of other religions and philosophies out that don’t have god(s) that will send gay people to a lake of fire forever.

    If you’re a Christian that picks and chooses whatever they want from the bible and rejects the parts they don’t like, then are you really a Christian? It seems like common sense to me…I don’t want to be associated with a group that openly has rules that say I am an abomination just for being born the way I am.

  • PhillyJimi1

    I am an atheist but why would anyone who is (not can be) gay want to be a Christian? If you’re gay your gay act like a decent human being and be an productive member of society and if you’re lucky enough to find someone to love it is no concern of mine. I only wish the best for you and the people you care about and would have no problems being your friend.

    The bible clearly states homosexuality is an abomination. The bible is a mess of contradictions but in this specific manner it is very straight forward there is NO wiggle room. I find nothing in the bible to be particularly moral beyond common sense things like try to love each other, don’t commit murder and steal. No society is going to be successful if it teaches hate, murder and stealing.

    It seems to me if you’re gay and want to be a Christian it is like an African American wanting to join the KKK. There are plenty of other religions and philosophies out that don’t have god(s) that will send gay people to a lake of fire forever.

    If you’re a Christian that picks and chooses whatever they want from the bible and rejects the parts they don’t like, then are you really a Christian? It seems like common sense to me…I don’t want to be associated with a group that openly has rules that say I am an abomination just for being born the way I am.

  • myroro

    Religion poisons everything.

  • myroro

    Religion poisons everything.

  • nypeach

    No the word didn’t exist, but the concept did and the Bible is very clear on that. Scripture is not mistranslated when it comes to God’s view on homosexuality and to imply that is to just lie. And just because I think homosexuality is wrong doesn’t mean that I hate you. It means that I agree with Scripture that says men lying with men for unnatural purposes is wrong.

  • nypeach

    No the word didn’t exist, but the concept did and the Bible is very clear on that. Scripture is not mistranslated when it comes to God’s view on homosexuality and to imply that is to just lie. And just because I think homosexuality is wrong doesn’t mean that I hate you. It means that I agree with Scripture that says men lying with men for unnatural purposes is wrong.

  • penniless_taxpayer

    There is no such thing as a “gay Christian”. That’s a moronic oxymoron.

  • penniless_taxpayer

    There is no such thing as a “gay Christian”. That’s a moronic oxymoron.

  • guntergrass

    Who do you worship? If you believe the Bible is the inerrant word of God, you have a lot more to worry about than other men or women lying with other men or women. The Bible says all *kinds* of things. Have you ever read it? The whole thing?

    Pretty much everybody ignores certain things in the Bible—not just what’s in Leviticus but the New Testament as well–because those things are not relevant to society today.

    (Aside from the fact that reading the Torah as “a prelude to salvation by Jesus” is a *cockamamie* way to read that book.)

  • guntergrass

    Who do you worship? If you believe the Bible is the inerrant word of God, you have a lot more to worry about than other men or women lying with other men or women. The Bible says all *kinds* of things. Have you ever read it? The whole thing?

    Pretty much everybody ignores certain things in the Bible—not just what’s in Leviticus but the New Testament as well–because those things are not relevant to society today.

    (Aside from the fact that reading the Torah as “a prelude to salvation by Jesus” is a *cockamamie* way to read that book.)

  • penniless_taxpayer

    On Judgment Day homosexuals will come face to face with the greatest “homophobe” in the universe. Unlike the SCOTUS, God cannot be bribed, cajoled, intimidated or moved by propaganda. He has already handed down his ruling in God v. Sodom to explicitly illustrate to thick-headed homosexuals that this is not acceptable.

    Jesus said that it would be like this in the LAST DAYS prior to His return … rampant homosexuality. This life is but a few years; hell is for eternity. Think on that for a while.

  • penniless_taxpayer

    On Judgment Day homosexuals will come face to face with the greatest “homophobe” in the universe. Unlike the SCOTUS, God cannot be bribed, cajoled, intimidated or moved by propaganda. He has already handed down his ruling in God v. Sodom to explicitly illustrate to thick-headed homosexuals that this is not acceptable.

    Jesus said that it would be like this in the LAST DAYS prior to His return … rampant homosexuality. This life is but a few years; hell is for eternity. Think on that for a while.

  • jayc1

    I think it is utterly bizarre that some people think the main sin of the Sodomites was homosexuality. It isn’t even clear that the storyteller intends it to be taken as one of their sins at all. It is sort of like the way that so-called fundamentalists think that the Original Sin was sex. It is quite clear in the Garden of Eden story that the Original Sin was disobedience and had nothing to do with sex. Adam and Eve didn’t even have sex until after getting kicked out.

  • jayc1

    I think it is utterly bizarre that some people think the main sin of the Sodomites was homosexuality. It isn’t even clear that the storyteller intends it to be taken as one of their sins at all. It is sort of like the way that so-called fundamentalists think that the Original Sin was sex. It is quite clear in the Garden of Eden story that the Original Sin was disobedience and had nothing to do with sex. Adam and Eve didn’t even have sex until after getting kicked out.

  • vijayk

    Basically the article title is correct, same as you can be a gossiper and be a Christian or a murderer and be a Christian. You cannot be unrepentant and be a christian.

  • vijayk

    Basically the article title is correct, same as you can be a gossiper and be a Christian or a murderer and be a Christian. You cannot be unrepentant and be a christian.

  • vijayk

    I should say you cannot be unrepentant and be saved.

  • Eric Chamberlain

    The Bible doesn’t clearly state that homosexuality is an abomination. Only modern heterodox Bibles that mistranslated toevah, claim that toevah means abomination. Just ask any rabbi.

  • Eric Chamberlain

    The Bible doesn’t clearly state that homosexuality is an abomination. Only modern heterodox Bibles that mistranslated toevah, claim that toevah means abomination. Just ask any rabbi.

  • vijayk

    I should say you cannot be unrepentant and be saved.

  • FrenchChef

    Have you repented for posting a LIE about loving, committed same gender American couples?

  • FrenchChef

    Comparing loving, committed same gender American couples to murderers is hate speech, nothing more–and indicates the desperation with which you’ve tried to demean, demonize and dehumanize LGBT Americans.

  • FrenchChef

    Comparing loving, committed same gender American couples to murderers is hate speech, nothing more–and indicates the desperation with which you’ve tried to demean, demonize and dehumanize LGBT Americans.

  • FrenchChef

    Have you repented for posting a LIE about loving, committed same gender American couples?

  • FrenchChef

    The major Christian denominations know that’s nothing but a tired, old anti-gay LIE. What gives YOU some “right” to violate Thou Shalt Not Bear False Witness?

  • FrenchChef

    The major Christian denominations know that’s nothing but a tired, old anti-gay LIE. What gives YOU some “right” to violate Thou Shalt Not Bear False Witness?

  • FrenchChef

    I don’t even know why anti-gays are still trying to claim God shares their homophobia, when we know what Jesus DID about same gender couples. Jesus affirmed a gay couple. Read Matthew 8:5-13 and Luke 7:1-10. From our days in Sunday school, many of us are familiar with the Gospel story where Jesus healed the servant of a Roman centurion. In the original Greek, the word that the Roman centurion uses in this passage to describe the sick man – pais – is the same word used in ancient Greek to refer to a same-gender partner.

  • FrenchChef

    I don’t even know why anti-gays are still trying to claim God shares their homophobia, when we know what Jesus DID about same gender couples. Jesus affirmed a gay couple. Read Matthew 8:5-13 and Luke 7:1-10. From our days in Sunday school, many of us are familiar with the Gospel story where Jesus healed the servant of a Roman centurion. In the original Greek, the word that the Roman centurion uses in this passage to describe the sick man – pais – is the same word used in ancient Greek to refer to a same-gender partner.

  • FrenchChef

    It’s so sad that anti-gays continue to try to drag Christianity down to their level.

  • FrenchChef

    It’s so sad that anti-gays continue to try to drag Christianity down to their level.

  • DigitalQuaker

    FC, once again your words only hurt. They do nothing to bring people together. You need to get some counseling, for your own good. You share nothing but hate for anyone who even “see’s” things differently from you, let alone actually dare to disagree with you.

  • DigitalQuaker

    FC, once again your words only hurt. They do nothing to bring people together. You need to get some counseling, for your own good. You share nothing but hate for anyone who even “see’s” things differently from you, let alone actually dare to disagree with you.

  • DigitalQuaker

    FC, you don’t even know what you’re talking about. Someone has provided you this information, and you continue to parrot it. Many scholars do not agree with that statement, so don’t share it as if it’s indisputable fact. Once again you weaken your own position, which is a shame since I support LGBT rights, and their desire to embrace their spirituality.

    Next time try posting something, anything, without using “anti-gay”. You might get people to actually take you seriously.

  • DigitalQuaker

    FC, you don’t even know what you’re talking about. Someone has provided you this information, and you continue to parrot it. Many scholars do not agree with that statement, so don’t share it as if it’s indisputable fact. Once again you weaken your own position, which is a shame since I support LGBT rights, and their desire to embrace their spirituality.

    Next time try posting something, anything, without using “anti-gay”. You might get people to actually take you seriously.

  • FrenchChef

    Anti-gays routinely post such vicious personal attacks when they can’t refute the simple fact that normal, non-homophobic readers post. Typically, this anti-gay poster is also trying to “project” his own rage and impotence at the defeat of his anti-gay agenda. Sorry, it isn’t “hate” to identify the sin of an anti-gay.

  • FrenchChef

    Anti-gays routinely post such vicious personal attacks when they can’t refute the simple fact that normal, non-homophobic readers post. Typically, this anti-gay poster is also trying to “project” his own rage and impotence at the defeat of his anti-gay agenda. Sorry, it isn’t “hate” to identify the sin of an anti-gay.

  • FrenchChef

    They’d have to get over their antisemitism first, I’m afraid, Mr. Chamberlain.

  • FrenchChef

    They’d have to get over their antisemitism first, I’m afraid, Mr. Chamberlain.

  • FrenchChef

    Those denominations agree with me. I’m not interested in what your fellow anti-gay “experts” think.

    “You might get people to actually take you seriously.”

    You do, that’s why you’ve attacked me twice in this thread alone.

    “I support LGBT rights”

    Just another anti-gay lie, easily told anonymously here, demonstrably a lie by your own posts.

  • FrenchChef

    Those denominations agree with me. I’m not interested in what your fellow anti-gay “experts” think.

    “You might get people to actually take you seriously.”

    You do, that’s why you’ve attacked me twice in this thread alone.

    “I support LGBT rights”

    Just another anti-gay lie, easily told anonymously here, demonstrably a lie by your own posts.

  • Tender Hooligan

    Penniless taxpayer. If you think that there is no such thing as a gay Christian, you are denying a significant proportion of the population the chance to follow your religion. Now it may well be that gay people read views such as yours, and decide that they don’t want to be a member of a club that would have people like you in it, but I think it shows extraordinary arrogance that you think you should make that choice for them.

  • Tender Hooligan

    Penniless taxpayer. If you think that there is no such thing as a gay Christian, you are denying a significant proportion of the population the chance to follow your religion. Now it may well be that gay people read views such as yours, and decide that they don’t want to be a member of a club that would have people like you in it, but I think it shows extraordinary arrogance that you think you should make that choice for them.

  • leibowde84

    Haha, you are missing the point. We don’t think homosexuals require repentence because we don’t see a logical reason why it would be considered immoral. And, the only explanation that we get to the contrary depends solely on speculation to what God wants for us (which is pretty ridiculous when considering we are considering government action in most cases). So, can you explain to me why it would make sense that God would have hatred for homosexual acts? Would his disgust be equal in regards to heterosexual sex outside of marriage? Or between individuals that aren’t fertile? Wouldn’t that all be considered wrong?

  • leibowde84

    Haha, you are missing the point. We don’t think homosexuals require repentence because we don’t see a logical reason why it would be considered immoral. And, the only explanation that we get to the contrary depends solely on speculation to what God wants for us (which is pretty ridiculous when considering we are considering government action in most cases). So, can you explain to me why it would make sense that God would have hatred for homosexual acts? Would his disgust be equal in regards to heterosexual sex outside of marriage? Or between individuals that aren’t fertile? Wouldn’t that all be considered wrong?

  • Dixie Suzan Davis

    The God of the age speaks. Yes, you can be gay and Christian, a New revelation by Prophet Ross Murray. Shouldn’t this revelation stuffbe delivered on 2 stone tablets? (I wonder if the Prophet has a beard?)
    Ross Murray is Director of News and Faith Initiatives at GLAAD, the final Christian voice of theological authority on these things.

  • Dixie Suzan Davis

    The God of the age speaks. Yes, you can be gay and Christian, a New revelation by Prophet Ross Murray. Shouldn’t this revelation stuffbe delivered on 2 stone tablets? (I wonder if the Prophet has a beard?)
    Ross Murray is Director of News and Faith Initiatives at GLAAD, the final Christian voice of theological authority on these things.

  • unreligious

    The bible does not clearly state anything. As soon as you say it does, your just showing your lack of knowledge.

  • unreligious

    The bible does not clearly state anything. As soon as you say it does, your just showing your lack of knowledge.

  • FrenchChef

    Why are you pretending this is the only person to reject your claim that Christianity is synonymous with homophobia, Dixie? These denominations will marry same gender couples in 12 US States and the District of Columbia, and have married them in California:

    The Association of Welcoming and Affirming Baptists
    The Episcopal Church
    Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
    Metropolitan Community Church
    Conservative Judaism
    Reform Judaism
    Religious Society of Friends (Quakers)
    Unitarian Universalist Church
    United Church of Christ

    Other individual churches are disregarding their denomination’s homophobia and are marrying same gender couples.

  • FrenchChef

    Just another nasty personal attack from an anti-gay, nothing new…

  • FrenchChef

    Why are you pretending this is the only person to reject your claim that Christianity is synonymous with homophobia, Dixie? These denominations will marry same gender couples in 12 US States and the District of Columbia, and have married them in California:

    The Association of Welcoming and Affirming Baptists
    The Episcopal Church
    Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
    Metropolitan Community Church
    Conservative Judaism
    Reform Judaism
    Religious Society of Friends (Quakers)
    Unitarian Universalist Church
    United Church of Christ

    Other individual churches are disregarding their denomination’s homophobia and are marrying same gender couples.

  • FrenchChef

    Just another nasty personal attack from an anti-gay, nothing new…

  • FrenchChef

    Anti-gays also think they should be able to decide who gets the protections of legal marriages or ANY legal recognition at all; most of the anti-gay Hate Votes say that same gender couples can’t even have a durable power of attorney for health care.

  • FrenchChef

    Anti-gays also think they should be able to decide who gets the protections of legal marriages or ANY legal recognition at all; most of the anti-gay Hate Votes say that same gender couples can’t even have a durable power of attorney for health care.

  • Rongoklunk

    Well at least the Church doesn’t torture or burn gays alive anymore, and I call that progress.
    And it’s cool that it took science to teach us that homosexuality is not a choice but a genetic condition, and that hating Gays is absurd. Mother Nature doesn’t necessarily get everything right; Siamese twins for instance, and didn’t I see a cat born with two faces on one head in a newspaper the other day? Sure did. These things happen in a world without a God. Nature isn’t perfect.

  • Rongoklunk

    Well at least the Church doesn’t torture or burn gays alive anymore, and I call that progress.
    And it’s cool that it took science to teach us that homosexuality is not a choice but a genetic condition, and that hating Gays is absurd. Mother Nature doesn’t necessarily get everything right; Siamese twins for instance, and didn’t I see a cat born with two faces on one head in a newspaper the other day? Sure did. These things happen in a world without a God. Nature isn’t perfect.

  • FrenchChef

    Doesn’t being a Christian mean obeying “Thou Shalt Not Bear False Witness”? This clearly demonstrates that anti-gays are NOT Christians, since anti-gays all lie constantly.

  • FrenchChef

    Doesn’t being a Christian mean obeying “Thou Shalt Not Bear False Witness”? This clearly demonstrates that anti-gays are NOT Christians, since anti-gays all lie constantly.

  • DigitalQuaker

    I demonstrate it by my actions on a daily basis. You continue to demonstrate your hate and pettyness. The you cry about being “attacked” while you relentlessly aggressively harrang anyone who sees things differently than you is laughable, and sad. You do nothing but make the cause of gay rights more difficult, so please stop.

  • DigitalQuaker

    I demonstrate it by my actions on a daily basis. You continue to demonstrate your hate and pettyness. The you cry about being “attacked” while you relentlessly aggressively harrang anyone who sees things differently than you is laughable, and sad. You do nothing but make the cause of gay rights more difficult, so please stop.

  • Center-right

    I guess the question for me is, “Why bother?” If the LGBT community desires to engage others on a religious/spiritual plain, perhaps a more philosophical approach would be preferable to what Christians, historically, believe is a revealed faith.
    For many Christians, it doesn’t much matter what humans believe; it matters that the Bible says about a), b), and c), because they want to know God (not themselves). 1 Cor 6:9-11 says “that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God.” The list of “wrong” things includes homosexuality. But it also includes theft, greed, drunkenness, abuse, and cheating. Simply put, any sin disqualifies, because the goal is to have communion with a perfect God. An example:
    Any person who had a house guest who was rude, boorish, a thief, or who sexually preyed on the host’s children would likely not be invited back for a second night’s stay. The boorish house guest might also not be happy to stay with the host. He may be willing to put out the owner of the home and enjoy it without the host’s bothersome and overly principled intrusion.
    The idea that sin disqualifies one from knowing a God without sin is at the core of Christianity. To Christians, God Incarnate (Jesus Christ) cleared the way to God the Father. But that doesn’t mean that God simply goes along with people who say He’s got it wrong about sin. The Bible indicates that the behavioral model God espouses is perfectly beneficial (i.e., it leads to an abundant life (Jn 10:10)). To deny that would contradict His nature and existence. To put it clumsily, that concession would put Him out of the “God” business.
    Many humans believe that behavioral model is hateful at its core. That’s a Constitutional right. But why would the LGBT community want to associate themselves with a creed that, historically, has stood in such sharp contrast to their beliefs? It’s quite unlikely that God Incarnate is the focus. I suppose that would also put into question the use of the term Christian.

  • Center-right

    I guess the question for me is, “Why bother?” If the LGBT community desires to engage others on a religious/spiritual plain, perhaps a more philosophical approach would be preferable to what Christians, historically, believe is a revealed faith.
    For many Christians, it doesn’t much matter what humans believe; it matters that the Bible says about a), b), and c), because they want to know God (not themselves). 1 Cor 6:9-11 says “that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God.” The list of “wrong” things includes homosexuality. But it also includes theft, greed, drunkenness, abuse, and cheating. Simply put, any sin disqualifies, because the goal is to have communion with a perfect God. An example:
    Any person who had a house guest who was rude, boorish, a thief, or who sexually preyed on the host’s children would likely not be invited back for a second night’s stay. The boorish house guest might also not be happy to stay with the host. He may be willing to put out the owner of the home and enjoy it without the host’s bothersome and overly principled intrusion.
    The idea that sin disqualifies one from knowing a God without sin is at the core of Christianity. To Christians, God Incarnate (Jesus Christ) cleared the way to God the Father. But that doesn’t mean that God simply goes along with people who say He’s got it wrong about sin. The Bible indicates that the behavioral model God espouses is perfectly beneficial (i.e., it leads to an abundant life (Jn 10:10)). To deny that would contradict His nature and existence. To put it clumsily, that concession would put Him out of the “God” business.
    Many humans believe that behavioral model is hateful at its core. That’s a Constitutional right. But why would the LGBT community want to associate themselves with a creed that, historically, has stood in such sharp contrast to their beliefs? It’s quite unlikely that God Incarnate is the focus. I suppose that would also put into question the use of the term Christian.

  • FrenchChef

    Sorry, -right, you’re using Paul as your justification for claiming all Christians are homophobic? Paul never met Jesus–and we KNOW what JESUS WOULD DO about loving, committed same gender couples. Jesus affirmed a gay couple. Read Matthew 8:5-13 and Luke 7:1-10. From our days in Sunday school, many of us are familiar with the Gospel story where Jesus healed the servant of a Roman centurion. In the original Greek, the word that the Roman centurion uses in this passage to describe the sick man – pais – is the same word used in ancient Greek to refer to a same-gender partner.

    Considering the large number of major Christian denominations that are marrying same gender couples now–and how many denominations join them every year–it’s simply inaccurate to claim all Christians are homophobic any more than it’s accurate to imply that Jesus wanted to hurt loving, committed same gender couples.

  • FrenchChef

    Sorry, -right, you’re using Paul as your justification for claiming all Christians are homophobic? Paul never met Jesus–and we KNOW what JESUS WOULD DO about loving, committed same gender couples. Jesus affirmed a gay couple. Read Matthew 8:5-13 and Luke 7:1-10. From our days in Sunday school, many of us are familiar with the Gospel story where Jesus healed the servant of a Roman centurion. In the original Greek, the word that the Roman centurion uses in this passage to describe the sick man – pais – is the same word used in ancient Greek to refer to a same-gender partner.

    Considering the large number of major Christian denominations that are marrying same gender couples now–and how many denominations join them every year–it’s simply inaccurate to claim all Christians are homophobic any more than it’s accurate to imply that Jesus wanted to hurt loving, committed same gender couples.

  • Dixie Suzan Davis

    progressivenotregressive – Thank ya’ll for your reply. Gosh, no tablets huh. I wonder who has em. Well something this big “Yes, you can be gay and Christian” seems to kinda demand it don’t ya’ll think? Ya’ll could drag it out and require folks to bow down to the codification. Plastic tablets would be lighter of course and more modrin. Anyway, ya’ll go on enjoying gayness and recreational activities associated with it, all in the name of Jesus the Christ and I’ll just fade away.

  • Dixie Suzan Davis

    progressivenotregressive – Thank ya’ll for your reply. Gosh, no tablets huh. I wonder who has em. Well something this big “Yes, you can be gay and Christian” seems to kinda demand it don’t ya’ll think? Ya’ll could drag it out and require folks to bow down to the codification. Plastic tablets would be lighter of course and more modrin. Anyway, ya’ll go on enjoying gayness and recreational activities associated with it, all in the name of Jesus the Christ and I’ll just fade away.

  • Dixie Suzan Davis

    FrenchChef – Nasty personal attack? Moi attackin??? Come now lets not exagerate.
    Leviticus 18:22-24 (New International Version)
    22 ” ‘Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
    23 ” ‘Do not have sexual relations with an animal and defile yourself with it. A woman must not present herself to an animal to have sexual relations with it; that is a perversion.
    24 ” ‘Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled.

    God changed his mind by the New Testament? Or is Gay still detestable?
    Revelation 22; v 14 & 15 –
    14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
    15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

    Is the author of this article among those who “maketh a lie”???

  • Dixie Suzan Davis

    FrenchChef – Nasty personal attack? Moi attackin??? Come now lets not exagerate.
    Leviticus 18:22-24 (New International Version)
    22 ” ‘Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
    23 ” ‘Do not have sexual relations with an animal and defile yourself with it. A woman must not present herself to an animal to have sexual relations with it; that is a perversion.
    24 ” ‘Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled.

    God changed his mind by the New Testament? Or is Gay still detestable?
    Revelation 22; v 14 & 15 –
    14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
    15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

    Is the author of this article among those who “maketh a lie”???

  • vijayk

    Christ came not to condemn but to save. Your implying that Christ was somehow in agreement with their way of life with bears no weight because as we read in Matthew 4 Christ healed all that were brought to Him. I also can assure you that a “Christian” has NO authority to CONDONE or CONDEMN anyone.

  • vijayk

    Christ came not to condemn but to save. Your implying that Christ was somehow in agreement with their way of life with bears no weight because as we read in Matthew 4 Christ healed all that were brought to Him. I also can assure you that a “Christian” has NO authority to CONDONE or CONDEMN anyone.

  • Tender Hooligan

    Sorry vijayk, are you implying that gay people need to be healed? If so, do you know if intolerant people can be healed too? I know which ‘ailment’ causes most ills in society.

  • Tender Hooligan

    Sorry vijayk, are you implying that gay people need to be healed? If so, do you know if intolerant people can be healed too? I know which ‘ailment’ causes most ills in society.

  • vijayk

    Tender I am implying that Christ healed the person because he was sick! There is no indication in the verse as to what he was sick of.

  • vijayk

    Tender I am implying that Christ healed the person because he was sick! There is no indication in the verse as to what he was sick of.

  • Tender Hooligan

    So your implication is that it was irrelevant whether he was gay or not. That’s excellent. I knew that Jesus guy had some good points.

  • Tender Hooligan

    So your implication is that it was irrelevant whether he was gay or not. That’s excellent. I knew that Jesus guy had some good points.

  • vijayk

    He is the only one “Good” the rest of us are well……we just need to be like Him and stop trying to be Him.

  • vijayk

    He is the only one “Good” the rest of us are well……we just need to be like Him and stop trying to be Him.

  • Tender Hooligan

    So why is it that his followers have a much greater tendency to think of gay people as sinful, whereas those who don’t tend to be much more tolerant? Perhaps we are more likely to make our own minds up.

  • Tender Hooligan

    So why is it that his followers have a much greater tendency to think of gay people as sinful, whereas those who don’t tend to be much more tolerant? Perhaps we are more likely to make our own minds up.

  • PhillyJimi1

    Chamberlain – The point is the exact translation of 1 word. The word is negative. God of the bible doesn’t approve of the gay lifestyle. If Christians follow the word of god in the bible what exactly would you have them do? Break the word of their god?

  • PhillyJimi1

    Chamberlain – The point is the exact translation of 1 word. The word is negative. God of the bible doesn’t approve of the gay lifestyle. If Christians follow the word of god in the bible what exactly would you have them do? Break the word of their god?

  • globalone

    If you wish to argue this issue from a Christian perspective, then there really is no argument to be had. The Bible is crystal clear with respect to any marriage other than that between a husband and a wife. (Not man/woman mind you, but husband/wife).

    If you would rather argue from a secular perspective, then there is an argument to be made. That is, however, for a thread outside of “On Faith.”

  • globalone

    If you wish to argue this issue from a Christian perspective, then there really is no argument to be had. The Bible is crystal clear with respect to any marriage other than that between a husband and a wife. (Not man/woman mind you, but husband/wife).

    If you would rather argue from a secular perspective, then there is an argument to be made. That is, however, for a thread outside of “On Faith.”

  • globalone

    Yawn.

  • globalone

    Yawn.

  • leibowde84

    Why do they have to repent for being who they are? Don’t you probably think Paul was wrong about this stuff?! He was obviously wrong about a lot of other stuff. And, takilng the Bible word for word?! Come on. There are tons of contradictory statements made in it.

  • leibowde84

    Why do they have to repent for being who they are? Don’t you probably think Paul was wrong about this stuff?! He was obviously wrong about a lot of other stuff. And, takilng the Bible word for word?! Come on. There are tons of contradictory statements made in it.

  • leibowde84

    I know tons of Gay Christians. I don’t think you get out enough, penniless. About 99.9999999 percent of Christians break the rules, so why would breaking this one be different?

  • leibowde84

    I know tons of Gay Christians. I don’t think you get out enough, penniless. About 99.9999999 percent of Christians break the rules, so why would breaking this one be different?

  • leibowde84

    NOPE!! Philly Jim is wrong again. THere is absolutely nothing in the bible which even refers to the “gay lifestyle.” In truth, it didn’t even exist at the time that any of the bible was written. It merely refers to homosexual activities. A very different term with a very different meaning. But even those passages were written by Paul, who, admittedly, never actually met Jesus and, as a result, was merely putting words into his mouth.

  • leibowde84

    NOPE!! Philly Jim is wrong again. THere is absolutely nothing in the bible which even refers to the “gay lifestyle.” In truth, it didn’t even exist at the time that any of the bible was written. It merely refers to homosexual activities. A very different term with a very different meaning. But even those passages were written by Paul, who, admittedly, never actually met Jesus and, as a result, was merely putting words into his mouth.

  • leibowde84

    Christianity is not dependant on the Bible. It is the belief in Christ (not Paul) as the head of the church and the messiah. The Bible is simply a man-made book, written in an attempt to explain the teachings of Jesus (at least the new testament). I would argue that following the bible word for word has been proven to go against what Jesus actually preached.

  • leibowde84

    Christianity is not dependant on the Bible. It is the belief in Christ (not Paul) as the head of the church and the messiah. The Bible is simply a man-made book, written in an attempt to explain the teachings of Jesus (at least the new testament). I would argue that following the bible word for word has been proven to go against what Jesus actually preached.

  • Tender Hooligan

    @globalone. I think the whole point of the On Faith thread is to allow us to see each other’s view points, and to reach more understanding. I have been an atheist for over 40 years, despite having a very religious upbringing. I am fascinated by the mindset that makes someone religious, as it is something I can’t indentify with, but would like to understand. In this case, I would really like to know why following the Christian faith makes people less tolerant of homosexuality, in general. It doesn’t seem to fit with the ethos of tolerance promoted by Christianity. This seems to be the perfect place to explore this. I am sorry that you feel differently.

  • Tender Hooligan

    @globalone. I think the whole point of the On Faith thread is to allow us to see each other’s view points, and to reach more understanding. I have been an atheist for over 40 years, despite having a very religious upbringing. I am fascinated by the mindset that makes someone religious, as it is something I can’t indentify with, but would like to understand. In this case, I would really like to know why following the Christian faith makes people less tolerant of homosexuality, in general. It doesn’t seem to fit with the ethos of tolerance promoted by Christianity. This seems to be the perfect place to explore this. I am sorry that you feel differently.

  • leibowde84

    I don’t know where you get the idea that you have to follow all of the rules to be Christian. A lot of churches have nothing against homosexuals, so your point only applies to a minority of sects.

  • leibowde84

    I don’t know where you get the idea that you have to follow all of the rules to be Christian. A lot of churches have nothing against homosexuals, so your point only applies to a minority of sects.

  • Dixie Suzan Davis

    progressivenotregressive – Thank ya’ll for your reply.
    Ya’ll is advocatin I just fade away? Awww ya’ll is jokin agin. Ya’ll ain’t gay?? Sure sounded like one. Well maybe if ya’ll keeps goin down the path ya’ll is goin on why ya’ll may make it and become gay. Surprise all your gay friends, colleagues, and associates. Transgenderize if needs be. Its the latest fad.

  • Dixie Suzan Davis

    progressivenotregressive – Thank ya’ll for your reply.
    Ya’ll is advocatin I just fade away? Awww ya’ll is jokin agin. Ya’ll ain’t gay?? Sure sounded like one. Well maybe if ya’ll keeps goin down the path ya’ll is goin on why ya’ll may make it and become gay. Surprise all your gay friends, colleagues, and associates. Transgenderize if needs be. Its the latest fad.