Why the anti-abortion movement must start by changing the culture

While America suffers over 1.2 million abortions per year, the debate about how to end abortion rages on. And the … Continued

While America suffers over 1.2 million abortions per year, the debate about how to end abortion rages on.

And the endless debate can be deadly.

There are some who affirm life who believe that overturning Roe v. Wade is the only viable way to stop abortion.  While that goal has a lot of merit, achieving it is highly unlikely.  On the whole, the federal government has been aligned with abortion interests for decades.  When we place our trust in politicians or judges, we will most likely be disappointed.

Also, laws follow culture, not the other way around.  Roe became law because large segments of our society were comfortable making abortion legal.  Roe will not be overturned until our culture finds abortion unthinkable and distasteful.

If our time and attention are solely focused on the legislative and judicial battles, we miss the best opportunity to stop abortion in our country – reaching out to families facing unplanned pregnancies in our own communities.  If we fail to do so, we lose millions of opportunities to rescue babies and families from abortion right now, right in our own towns.

In other words while we opine on the fallacies of the government and courts from our armchairs, our 20-something next-door neighbor aborts her child.

If we are serious about stopping abortion, we must be serious about engaging people.  I believe the abortion industry is based on a series of lies.  Lies are debunked with truth.  Lies are mitigated with compassion and wise counsel.

What are some of these lies?

  • Abortion empowers women
  • Abortion does less emotional harm than pregnancy
  • Life in the womb is less valuable than life outside
  • So-called reproductive rights are foundational and essential to our society

While it is essential to refute these lies through culture-changing media, it is also essential to be a light of truth in the individual lives of those contemplating abortion.  It is not enough to attend rallies and marches.  It is not enough to send letters to our elected officials. We, as a life-affirming community, must be willing to love, care for, and support those families facing unplanned pregnancies. We must earn the right to speak into their lives.

But we can’t just speak to them.  We must also be willing and able to offer the tangible and practical support that many of these families require.  If they ask us to go one mile with them, we should go with them two.  We must not only share the truth about life, we must provide practical help, assistance, and sacrificial love to them.

If we consider ourselves pro-life, it is not enough to say so. It is not enough to opine from the armchair.

If we consider ourselves pro-life, we must intentionally and tangibly engage our families, our friends, and our neighbors in meaningful dialogue about abortion.  We must deflate the lies with truth.  We must, with compassion and gentleness, come alongside those facing an unplanned pregnancy.

Should we support government and judicial efforts to end abortion legally?  Of course.  Should we support incremental gains at the state level?  Absolutely.

However, we must discontinue relying on others in government or the courts to do our work for us.  We stop abortions by loving and caring for those around us who feel they have no real options but to abort.  We can and will stop abortion in our communities, one baby, one family at a time.

 Brian Fisher is president and co-founder of Online for Life, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit outreach that uses new and emerging strategies to save the lives of innocent, unborn babies and families from abortion, by coming alongside women and families in crisis and providing the option to connect them with local, life-affirming organizations where they receive compassion, grace, and comprehensive information.

About

  • SEML

    Online for Life stands for a noble cause, they use facts, technology and human compassion to reach women that are incredibly vulnerable, in their time of need. They hold their hand and give them hope. The right path is not often the easy path, but they stand with principle, for the voiceless, for the nameless. In this day in age there is no excuse for not knowing how a baby is made, a human egg and sperm are not going to produce a chicken, So let’s be honest it is a human and it is a baby. If it is not a baby growing inside a womb then why do women who have still births mourn? Why do they cry for their loss? Why do they have funeral services? That baby never took a breath, and yet that did not matter, it was their baby, for months they felt it grow in them, kick, hiccup. It is as much a baby in the womb as out. A mother becomes a mother the moment the sperm and egg connect. It is our job to raise a generation that is proud of that, and Online for Life is doing it in a big way. Kudos to you Brian! Keep up the good work of doing God’s work!

  • SEML

    Online for Life stands for a noble cause, they use facts, technology and human compassion to reach women that are incredibly vulnerable, in their time of need. They hold their hand and give them hope. The right path is not often the easy path, but they stand with principle, for the voiceless, for the nameless. In this day in age there is no excuse for not knowing how a baby is made, a human egg and sperm are not going to produce a chicken, So let’s be honest it is a human and it is a baby. If it is not a baby growing inside a womb then why do women who have still births mourn? Why do they cry for their loss? Why do they have funeral services? That baby never took a breath, and yet that did not matter, it was their baby, for months they felt it grow in them, kick, hiccup. It is as much a baby in the womb as out. A mother becomes a mother the moment the sperm and egg connect. It is our job to raise a generation that is proud of that, and Online for Life is doing it in a big way. Kudos to you Brian! Keep up the good work of doing God’s work!

  • XVIIHailSkins

    There is a very serious national conversation to be had about abortion, the death penalty, assisted suicide, and all the other circumstances in which the legislature must arbitrate over life and death. Unfortunately, if you appeal to “faith” as the sole basis of your reasoning, you disqualify yourself from participating in the discussion in any meaningful, serious, or original way. You betray the fact that you have no thoughts of your own on the matter, and admit that you aren’t interested in having a discussion at all. Faith is the ultimate conversation-stopper. It gives mediocre, unintelligent, and uninteresting people a license to preach, and an excuse not to listen. In other words, if the most thoughtful argument you’re willing to posit against abortion is that “God says it’s wrong,” you’re probably an idiot, and should probably excuse yourself from the table.

    On balance, I am against abortion, yet I find it more than tiresome being surrounded by willfully idiotic people who have nothing in common with me except a conclusion.

  • XVIIHailSkins

    There is a very serious national conversation to be had about abortion, the death penalty, assisted suicide, and all the other circumstances in which the legislature must arbitrate over life and death. Unfortunately, if you appeal to “faith” as the sole basis of your reasoning, you disqualify yourself from participating in the discussion in any meaningful, serious, or original way. You betray the fact that you have no thoughts of your own on the matter, and admit that you aren’t interested in having a discussion at all. Faith is the ultimate conversation-stopper. It gives mediocre, unintelligent, and uninteresting people a license to preach, and an excuse not to listen. In other words, if the most thoughtful argument you’re willing to posit against abortion is that “God says it’s wrong,” you’re probably an idiot, and should probably excuse yourself from the table.

    On balance, I am against abortion, yet I find it more than tiresome being surrounded by willfully idiotic people who have nothing in common with me except a conclusion.

  • cricket44

    Shocker. Another misogynist wants to force women to take to risks they personally will never face. I don’t think the culture is going back to treating women as animals. Dolt.

  • cricket44

    Shocker. Another misogynist wants to force women to take to risks they personally will never face. I don’t think the culture is going back to treating women as animals. Dolt.

  • Mike Rippy

    When a man wants to protect the unborn they are misogynists. Nice.

  • Mike Rippy

    When a man wants to protect the unborn they are misogynists. Nice.

  • cricket44

    Are you able to make the connection that “protecting the unborn” means harming women?

  • Mike Rippy

    However I don’t believe it is necessary to deny your religious beliefs to make your argument. There are many faith based reasons to not accept abortion as well as scientific and ethical.

  • cricket44

    Are you able to make the connection that “protecting the unborn” means harming women?

  • Mike Rippy

    However I don’t believe it is necessary to deny your religious beliefs to make your argument. There are many faith based reasons to not accept abortion as well as scientific and ethical.

  • Mike Rippy

    The connection is that abortion ends a life. I don’t think inconvenience and killing should even be weighed together.

    I guess another argument could be that sex is “harming women”.

  • Mike Rippy

    The connection is that abortion ends a life. I don’t think inconvenience and killing should even be weighed together.

    I guess another argument could be that sex is “harming women”.

  • cricket44

    You are not omniscient. Therefore you have zero notion of what is or is not convenience for a woman in that situation.

    What do you as a man do for *your * part of preventing pregnancy? What do you say to other men about prevention of pregnancy? That’s where your control begins and ends.

  • cricket44

    You are not omniscient. Therefore you have zero notion of what is or is not convenience for a woman in that situation.

    What do you as a man do for *your * part of preventing pregnancy? What do you say to other men about prevention of pregnancy? That’s where your control begins and ends.

  • Mike Rippy

    If we are talking about having sex of your own free will then having an abortion because you became pregnant then yes I do have a notion. If you want to discuss other scenarios please do.

    Contraception. Limit people I have intercourse with. Express the same to others.

    The last line seems like you cannot discuss this objectively. Seems like you are more concerned with control than life.

  • Mike Rippy

    If we are talking about having sex of your own free will then having an abortion because you became pregnant then yes I do have a notion. If you want to discuss other scenarios please do.

    Contraception. Limit people I have intercourse with. Express the same to others.

    The last line seems like you cannot discuss this objectively. Seems like you are more concerned with control than life.

  • cricket44

    No, you actually don’t. No doubt it’s fun to substitute your opinion for the judgment of the person IN the situation but ultimately it’s meaningless…and irrelevant. Every pregnancy has risks. Every one could end up where an abortion is needed. If you have sex and are not vasectomized you are hypocritical in the extreme. Do you let strangers dictate your medical decisions?

  • cricket44

    No, you actually don’t. No doubt it’s fun to substitute your opinion for the judgment of the person IN the situation but ultimately it’s meaningless…and irrelevant. Every pregnancy has risks. Every one could end up where an abortion is needed. If you have sex and are not vasectomized you are hypocritical in the extreme. Do you let strangers dictate your medical decisions?

  • Mike Rippy

    So those that cannot have an abortion should ignore that a life is being ended? Thats convenient.

    How about if you are going to have sex be prepared for the potential responsibility that comes with it.

  • Mike Rippy

    So those that cannot have an abortion should ignore that a life is being ended? Thats convenient.

    How about if you are going to have sex be prepared for the potential responsibility that comes with it.

  • cricket44

    So you, Mike, want to have sex, take no steps to prevent pregnancy, want to be able to force women to risk their health with gestation and delivery, overriding their personal rights…but you get huffy at the term misogynist. Huh.

  • cricket44

    So you, Mike, want to have sex, take no steps to prevent pregnancy, want to be able to force women to risk their health with gestation and delivery, overriding their personal rights…but you get huffy at the term misogynist. Huh.

  • kewake

    Mike, its amazing how cricket can twist words, isnt it? Look up^ he said “Contraception, Limit people I have intercourse with, express the same to others”. Sounds like a stand up guy to me.

  • kewake

    Mike, its amazing how cricket can twist words, isnt it? Look up^ he said “Contraception, Limit people I have intercourse with, express the same to others”. Sounds like a stand up guy to me.

  • Mike Rippy

    I don’t think you are reading my comments.

    Who’s getting “huffy”. I just think its a stretch to call someone a misogynist because they want to save a life.

    I’m not asking women to risk their health with gestation and delivery. I hope they do all they can to ensure their pregnancy goes well. Just like I hope the same person takes the proper precautions in avoiding possible risks with jogging around the block.

    Its unfortunate that you cannot make the connection that the unborn should have the same personal rights.

  • Mike Rippy

    I don’t think you are reading my comments.

    Who’s getting “huffy”. I just think its a stretch to call someone a misogynist because they want to save a life.

    I’m not asking women to risk their health with gestation and delivery. I hope they do all they can to ensure their pregnancy goes well. Just like I hope the same person takes the proper precautions in avoiding possible risks with jogging around the block.

    Its unfortunate that you cannot make the connection that the unborn should have the same personal rights.

  • Savoury

    How is a baby more alive today than the day before…how can you define life like that??? Life doesn’t “begin” in a baby’s body on Tuesday…but on Monday it was just a glob of tissue. There is no scientific evidence to prove that a “baby’s officially alive” at a certain given point. A human is pronounced dead by anybody’s standards when his/her heart stops beating. A baby has a beating heart as early as 3 weeks. Just because we’re big and can end life doesn’t mean the baby’s not alive in the first place. How you justify silencing a beating heart?
    There might be a lot of heartache when a baby is born for the mother. Perhaps she has to care for it on her own, etc…but I believe it’s safe to say that nothing is more traumatic and emotionally costing than killing someone. Before people argue against abortion, they need to see video footage of one, or the aftermath of one. If you’re going to argue a side, you’d better know the cost of both…People are well aware of the cost of having a child, but not so aware of other costs.
    The Nazi’s used the same argument: we can kill Jews because they aren’t really humans…they’re below the human status. Says Who? Where’s your science to prove they’re not humans: I put the same question to everyone against Pro-Life.

  • Savoury

    How is a baby more alive today than the day before…how can you define life like that??? Life doesn’t “begin” in a baby’s body on Tuesday…but on Monday it was just a glob of tissue. There is no scientific evidence to prove that a “baby’s officially alive” at a certain given point. A human is pronounced dead by anybody’s standards when his/her heart stops beating. A baby has a beating heart as early as 3 weeks. Just because we’re big and can end life doesn’t mean the baby’s not alive in the first place. How you justify silencing a beating heart?
    There might be a lot of heartache when a baby is born for the mother. Perhaps she has to care for it on her own, etc…but I believe it’s safe to say that nothing is more traumatic and emotionally costing than killing someone. Before people argue against abortion, they need to see video footage of one, or the aftermath of one. If you’re going to argue a side, you’d better know the cost of both…People are well aware of the cost of having a child, but not so aware of other costs.
    The Nazi’s used the same argument: we can kill Jews because they aren’t really humans…they’re below the human status. Says Who? Where’s your science to prove they’re not humans: I put the same question to everyone against Pro-Life.

  • kewake

    () () () () <- that is me clapping. Thank you!

  • kewake

    () () () () <- that is me clapping. Thank you!

  • Elizabeth Becerra

    A human life begins at conception because it has a unique dna structure that never before existed nor will exist again. Once this child is abruptly taken from this world through an abortion, we create a void in this world that no other person can fill. We prevent God’s plan for this person to ever be fulfilled. Only God can breathe life into us. When we take life, we are deciding to become a God. With this culture of self importance, we will self implode. There can only be one God. “You formed my inmost being; you knit me in my mother’s womb” Psalms 139:13-15.

  • Elizabeth Becerra

    A human life begins at conception because it has a unique dna structure that never before existed nor will exist again. Once this child is abruptly taken from this world through an abortion, we create a void in this world that no other person can fill. We prevent God’s plan for this person to ever be fulfilled. Only God can breathe life into us. When we take life, we are deciding to become a God. With this culture of self importance, we will self implode. There can only be one God. “You formed my inmost being; you knit me in my mother’s womb” Psalms 139:13-15.

  • Kevin W. Bobo

    Psalm 139:13-17: You made all the delicate, inner parts of my body and knit me together in my mother’s womb. Thank You for making me so wonderfully complex!! Your workmanship is marvelous-how well I know it. You watched me as I was being formed in utter seclusion, as I was woven together in the dark of the womb. You saw me before I was born. Every day of my life was recorded in Your book. Every moment was laid out before a single day had passed. How precious are Your thoughts about me O God. They cannot be numbered. That is the answer to all the questions about abortion.

  • Kevin W. Bobo

    Psalm 139:13-17: You made all the delicate, inner parts of my body and knit me together in my mother’s womb. Thank You for making me so wonderfully complex!! Your workmanship is marvelous-how well I know it. You watched me as I was being formed in utter seclusion, as I was woven together in the dark of the womb. You saw me before I was born. Every day of my life was recorded in Your book. Every moment was laid out before a single day had passed. How precious are Your thoughts about me O God. They cannot be numbered. That is the answer to all the questions about abortion.

  • Peggy Robinson

    Brian, your approach is the most compassionate and sensible that I have heard of. God bless you.

  • Peggy Robinson

    Brian, your approach is the most compassionate and sensible that I have heard of. God bless you.

  • kimmage

    I am adopted and post-abortive. Because a man like Brian, I am alive and breathing today. If a man like Brian stood by me when I was 18, there would be another child alive and breathing today. Argue all you want, but I don’t see post-abortive women out here arguing against love, truth and compassion. None of which I got when I had my abortion. Thank you for what Online for Life is doing!

  • kimmage

    I am adopted and post-abortive. Because a man like Brian, I am alive and breathing today. If a man like Brian stood by me when I was 18, there would be another child alive and breathing today. Argue all you want, but I don’t see post-abortive women out here arguing against love, truth and compassion. None of which I got when I had my abortion. Thank you for what Online for Life is doing!

  • cricket44

    I’m sorry your choice was wrong for you. Many women 10, 20, even 40 years on still feel it was the right decision for them. It’s lovely to support women who really want to continue their pregnancies. It’s wrong to actively work against those who do not.

  • cricket44

    I’m sorry your choice was wrong for you. Many women 10, 20, even 40 years on still feel it was the right decision for them. It’s lovely to support women who really want to continue their pregnancies. It’s wrong to actively work against those who do not.

  • Mike Rippy

    I like the wordplay cricket44. The more you say pregnancy the more you try to discount a life. Its pathetic. People are actively working to save lives. Its convenient for you to discount the life as just a pregnancy that could be terminated.

  • Mike Rippy

    I like the wordplay cricket44. The more you say pregnancy the more you try to discount a life. Its pathetic. People are actively working to save lives. Its convenient for you to discount the life as just a pregnancy that could be terminated.

  • cricket44

    More assumptions, Mike? Have you ever tried getting through the day without one? What I don’t discount is the person around the fetus. Why do you do that?

  • cricket44

    More assumptions, Mike? Have you ever tried getting through the day without one? What I don’t discount is the person around the fetus. Why do you do that?

  • cricket44

    The Nazis were actually forced birthers such as yourself.

  • cricket44

    The Nazis were actually forced birthers such as yourself.

  • jarandeh

    Why? Because Mike hates women.

    You cannot, CANNOT, say you don’t hate women when you actively work to reduce the control they have on their bodies.

    Period.

    Oh, and by the way: we will fight you. We will fight you, and we will win. Because we are NOT going backward.

  • jarandeh

    Why? Because Mike hates women.

    You cannot, CANNOT, say you don’t hate women when you actively work to reduce the control they have on their bodies.

    Period.

    Oh, and by the way: we will fight you. We will fight you, and we will win. Because we are NOT going backward.

  • jarandeh

    I like how you start with science and end with religion. Do you realize that reasonable people consider the progression of your ideas to be absurd?

  • jarandeh

    I like how you start with science and end with religion. Do you realize that reasonable people consider the progression of your ideas to be absurd?

  • kewake

    oooohhhh pitchforks and flames. Just cause the guy is pro-life. Wowza. Fight! Fight! Fight! That sure gets us places. If you read the article, its all about loving and caring for women. Most people that are pro-life know that even if they reach out, there are women that will stil choose abortion. Its about helping those women who do not want to abort. Showing them real choice. And maybe, just maybe, save a life. Yeah, thats just horrible.

  • kewake

    oooohhhh pitchforks and flames. Just cause the guy is pro-life. Wowza. Fight! Fight! Fight! That sure gets us places. If you read the article, its all about loving and caring for women. Most people that are pro-life know that even if they reach out, there are women that will stil choose abortion. Its about helping those women who do not want to abort. Showing them real choice. And maybe, just maybe, save a life. Yeah, thats just horrible.

  • jarandeh

    ‘Showing them a real choice’

    So, do you swear to stop attacking abortion and abortion access through legislative means?

    Are you committed to the availability of a choice? The choice to continue or terminate a pregnancy?

    If you are, fine. If you’re not, you are my enemy. Because you are the enemy of my wife and daughters.

  • jarandeh

    ‘Showing them a real choice’

    So, do you swear to stop attacking abortion and abortion access through legislative means?

    Are you committed to the availability of a choice? The choice to continue or terminate a pregnancy?

    If you are, fine. If you’re not, you are my enemy. Because you are the enemy of my wife and daughters.

  • dcrswm

    And what if people believe in a different sky wizard than you?

  • dcrswm

    And what if people believe in a different sky wizard than you?

  • jarandeh

    Neal before Zod!

  • dcrswm

    As soon as you invoke magical sky wizards your argument loses all credibility.

  • jarandeh

    Neal before Zod!

  • dcrswm

    As soon as you invoke magical sky wizards your argument loses all credibility.

  • cricket44

    Your wife and daughters are lucky to have you, jarandeh.

  • dcrswm

    I’m inclined to go with Odin, remember Odin promised to rid the world of ice giants, christian god said he would rid the world of wicked people…..I’ve seen wicked people, never seen an ice giant tough.

  • cricket44

    Your wife and daughters are lucky to have you, jarandeh.

  • dcrswm

    I’m inclined to go with Odin, remember Odin promised to rid the world of ice giants, christian god said he would rid the world of wicked people…..I’ve seen wicked people, never seen an ice giant tough.

  • kewake

    Yeah, I am a real bad guy. Please. I do not attack anyone. I would never be committed to supporting abortion, in any way. But I will show women that they do not have to choose abortion. You are just out of control if you really think that FIGHTING and calling people your enemy is going to get you anywhere or stop the pro-life agenda. There will always, always be opposition to taking innocent human lives. Whatever, go be angry. Cool with me.

  • jarandeh

    I’m intrigued by your ideas and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

  • kewake

    Yeah, I am a real bad guy. Please. I do not attack anyone. I would never be committed to supporting abortion, in any way. But I will show women that they do not have to choose abortion. You are just out of control if you really think that FIGHTING and calling people your enemy is going to get you anywhere or stop the pro-life agenda. There will always, always be opposition to taking innocent human lives. Whatever, go be angry. Cool with me.

  • jarandeh

    I’m intrigued by your ideas and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

  • dcrswm

    “I”ll show women they do not need to choose abortion” by making it illegal to get one…some choice.

  • dcrswm

    “I”ll show women they do not need to choose abortion” by making it illegal to get one…some choice.

  • cricket44

    “Please. I do not attack anyone.” LOL…

  • dcrswm

    When you die all you have to do is eat and drink beer, it’s really the religion of choice.

  • cricket44

    “Please. I do not attack anyone.” LOL…

  • dcrswm

    When you die all you have to do is eat and drink beer, it’s really the religion of choice.

  • jarandeh

    But what about naps? Can I still have naps?

    I love naps!

  • Savoury

    First of all, Cricket, in an intellectual debate you don’t throw out random accusations. I am a woman, and I am not “forcing” anybody into a hospital bed to have a baby. I said nothing of the kind. I merely called into question, after 2 people have conceived a child, whether it is right for them to end its life.
    Secondly, you seem to act as if giving birth is a traumatic, horrific experience. I’m sorry, but it’s not. Giving birth brings forth a beautiful, wonderful baby: in short life. Abortion produces only a bloody pile of “tissue”: dead, something to be flushed down the toilet. I ask you: have you seen footage at all? If you don’t want the baby or simply can’t take care of it, there are plenty of people who can! Maybe put it up for adoption?
    Again, I am all for science!!! If you can show me how science has proved the child is not alive, then I am all ears. The baby has a heartbeat as early as 3 weeks. And like I stated before: by all standards when you’re outside of the womb, if you don’t have a heart beat only then are you pronounced dead. It’s simply not logical to say that because you’re inside the womb a heartbeat is irrelevant to the matter.
    I respectfully assert that you’ve addressed none of my arguments…

  • jarandeh

    But what about naps? Can I still have naps?

    I love naps!

  • Savoury

    First of all, Cricket, in an intellectual debate you don’t throw out random accusations. I am a woman, and I am not “forcing” anybody into a hospital bed to have a baby. I said nothing of the kind. I merely called into question, after 2 people have conceived a child, whether it is right for them to end its life.
    Secondly, you seem to act as if giving birth is a traumatic, horrific experience. I’m sorry, but it’s not. Giving birth brings forth a beautiful, wonderful baby: in short life. Abortion produces only a bloody pile of “tissue”: dead, something to be flushed down the toilet. I ask you: have you seen footage at all? If you don’t want the baby or simply can’t take care of it, there are plenty of people who can! Maybe put it up for adoption?
    Again, I am all for science!!! If you can show me how science has proved the child is not alive, then I am all ears. The baby has a heartbeat as early as 3 weeks. And like I stated before: by all standards when you’re outside of the womb, if you don’t have a heart beat only then are you pronounced dead. It’s simply not logical to say that because you’re inside the womb a heartbeat is irrelevant to the matter.
    I respectfully assert that you’ve addressed none of my arguments…

  • dcrswm

    “We’ll protect you from conception to birth, then fu@%-off” – The Anti-Choice crowd.

  • dcrswm

    “We’ll protect you from conception to birth, then fu@%-off” – The Anti-Choice crowd.

  • dcrswm

    Obviously, I did mention all the beer right?

  • cricket44

    I have NO problem with people living by their own religious beliefs. But you have to understand that you cannot compel everyone else to do so. I have my own belief but I don’t discuss it here because people get off track and too invested in claiming their way is the only way. I also don’t feel threatened by folks who think any belief is foolish.

  • dcrswm

    Obviously, I did mention all the beer right?

  • cricket44

    I have NO problem with people living by their own religious beliefs. But you have to understand that you cannot compel everyone else to do so. I have my own belief but I don’t discuss it here because people get off track and too invested in claiming their way is the only way. I also don’t feel threatened by folks who think any belief is foolish.

  • jarandeh

    God helps fetuses that help themselves.

    These lazy embryos need to pull themselves up by their umbilical cords!

  • jarandeh

    God helps fetuses that help themselves.

    These lazy embryos need to pull themselves up by their umbilical cords!

  • kewake

    This is another lie. Please look up Catholic Charities and other organizations that have TONS of programs to help. Talk to real people that chose life and got the help they needed through these programs. Or better yet, volunteer.

  • Savoury

    jarandeh and dcrswm, read my post below…I am the first to call in science to settle the disbute!

  • kewake

    This is another lie. Please look up Catholic Charities and other organizations that have TONS of programs to help. Talk to real people that chose life and got the help they needed through these programs. Or better yet, volunteer.

  • Savoury

    jarandeh and dcrswm, read my post below…I am the first to call in science to settle the disbute!

  • dcrswm

    We all know just how much catholics love children.

  • dcrswm

    Come on cricket, give it a try, you might like it.

  • cricket44

    How I act about birth is informed. No one woman’s experience is universal. That is the point. I am *truly* happy for women who get through it easily. That’s fantastic and more power to you. Many women do not. Often they still choose to do it and more than once but let’s not dismiss the very real risks inherent in *every* pregnancy and delivery.

    I’ve seen the films. I’ve read the propaganda and lies. In fact, it was in researching anti-choice claims that I lost all respect for them. If you have to LIE to women to get them to do what you want, please, drop the “because we care” nonsense.

    Adoption is awesome. It’s a parenthood choice not a reproductive one, however.

    Gestation is a 40 week process. It is not “insta kid.” At the time of most abortions, claiming “baby” is inane. I never said a fetus isn’t human.

  • dcrswm

    We all know just how much catholics love children.

  • dcrswm

    Come on cricket, give it a try, you might like it.

  • cricket44

    How I act about birth is informed. No one woman’s experience is universal. That is the point. I am *truly* happy for women who get through it easily. That’s fantastic and more power to you. Many women do not. Often they still choose to do it and more than once but let’s not dismiss the very real risks inherent in *every* pregnancy and delivery.

    I’ve seen the films. I’ve read the propaganda and lies. In fact, it was in researching anti-choice claims that I lost all respect for them. If you have to LIE to women to get them to do what you want, please, drop the “because we care” nonsense.

    Adoption is awesome. It’s a parenthood choice not a reproductive one, however.

    Gestation is a 40 week process. It is not “insta kid.” At the time of most abortions, claiming “baby” is inane. I never said a fetus isn’t human.

  • dcrswm

    You also brought in magic sky wizards…so your judgement is already suspect. Ooga-booga all the way back to your cave.

  • dcrswm

    You also brought in magic sky wizards…so your judgement is already suspect. Ooga-booga all the way back to your cave.

  • jarandeh

    I’m all for helping through Catholic charities.

    But you said ‘chose life’; so you agree that women should have a choice? A choice a woman can make HERSELF which includes abortion as one option?

    Do you agree with safe, legal, and rare?

  • cricket44

    Ha, thank you…and some of my closest friends are non-believers (wink) but we just let each other live as we will. I’ll join you in the beer and napping, though.

  • jarandeh

    I’m all for helping through Catholic charities.

    But you said ‘chose life’; so you agree that women should have a choice? A choice a woman can make HERSELF which includes abortion as one option?

    Do you agree with safe, legal, and rare?

  • cricket44

    Ha, thank you…and some of my closest friends are non-believers (wink) but we just let each other live as we will. I’ll join you in the beer and napping, though.

  • cricket44

    I can understand someone personally being against abortion. When the same folks rail against contraception and measures that help *prevent* the need for abortion, forget it. I’m done listening.

  • cricket44

    I can understand someone personally being against abortion. When the same folks rail against contraception and measures that help *prevent* the need for abortion, forget it. I’m done listening.

  • cricket44

    I hear with the volunteering. When my daughter is grown I’d like to volunteer as an escort at Planned Parenthood so women can get to their medical appointments without being accosted, screamed at and harassed. The only reason I haven’t yet is because if something happens to me, I don’t want my daughter to be left without a parent and those protesters are not mentally-balanced people.

  • cricket44

    I hear with the volunteering. When my daughter is grown I’d like to volunteer as an escort at Planned Parenthood so women can get to their medical appointments without being accosted, screamed at and harassed. The only reason I haven’t yet is because if something happens to me, I don’t want my daughter to be left without a parent and those protesters are not mentally-balanced people.

  • jarandeh

    Savoury-

    First of all, nice Godwin at the end there.

    Second: sexual reproduction, through fertilization, gestation, and birth, is absolutely unique. Attempts to draw facile analogies, to make it simple, always miss the mark. Is a blastula a human being? No, of course not! Is it a human blastula? Yes. Will it grow to be a human embryo, then a fetus? Maybe.

    You view the haziness and complexity of how human beings reproduce, and in an attempt to make it all simple, to make all the ambiguity go away, you just say, ‘Oh, to heck with it, let’s just say its a human being the INSTAT the sperm touches the egg’. This is a false simplification.

    Also, brain dead people have beating hearts, and they’re considered dead. So the presence of a heartbeat is insufficient to establish human life.

  • Savoury

    I am very glad you are informed Cricket! Truly. Not many are. I believe that blurting out random, emotionally driven statements aren’t helpful to a real discussion. I am with you in that real thought and real conclusions are based on logical progression of thought.
    I, of course, agree that with every pregnancy there is risk. But in life just about everything holds a risk, including driving to work in the morning. There is always a possibility of getting hit by another driver, etc. Abortion has many dangers as well: as I’m sure you know, women have been killed in botched abortions before.
    I believe in telling the truth and promoting science for the sake of itself…not to cajole women onto a certain side, etc. We should present what we believe because firstly, we care about what’s factual and true…and secondly if we believe it truly harms somebody…to spare them.

    I still don’t understand how you explain away the beating heart?? I have looked at it every which way…I am not “promoting” propaganda, or fighting for a “side”…I am saying there is a serious logical and moral problem with saying that the heart beat doesn’t matter in the discussion. If it has a heat beat then it’s alive. If you don’t agree with that, then you are basically saying its o.k to kill an older somebody because they don’t look like what you think a human should look like.
    You are right in that it’s not a complete kid…that could survive on its own right away. For the sake of argument, pretend all of the sudden our society was really into “grandpas” …for instance to be one was to be considered “fully human”. If you didn’t have grey hair, then you weren’t given your full rights. So we could go around killing toddlers because they “aren’t fully formed”?? No, just because they haven’t learned to walk or talk yet doesn’t mean they have just as much right to life as we do.
    Just some thoughts…I enjoy discussing it with you.

  • jarandeh

    Savoury-

    First of all, nice Godwin at the end there.

    Second: sexual reproduction, through fertilization, gestation, and birth, is absolutely unique. Attempts to draw facile analogies, to make it simple, always miss the mark. Is a blastula a human being? No, of course not! Is it a human blastula? Yes. Will it grow to be a human embryo, then a fetus? Maybe.

    You view the haziness and complexity of how human beings reproduce, and in an attempt to make it all simple, to make all the ambiguity go away, you just say, ‘Oh, to heck with it, let’s just say its a human being the INSTAT the sperm touches the egg’. This is a false simplification.

    Also, brain dead people have beating hearts, and they’re considered dead. So the presence of a heartbeat is insufficient to establish human life.

  • Savoury

    I am very glad you are informed Cricket! Truly. Not many are. I believe that blurting out random, emotionally driven statements aren’t helpful to a real discussion. I am with you in that real thought and real conclusions are based on logical progression of thought.
    I, of course, agree that with every pregnancy there is risk. But in life just about everything holds a risk, including driving to work in the morning. There is always a possibility of getting hit by another driver, etc. Abortion has many dangers as well: as I’m sure you know, women have been killed in botched abortions before.
    I believe in telling the truth and promoting science for the sake of itself…not to cajole women onto a certain side, etc. We should present what we believe because firstly, we care about what’s factual and true…and secondly if we believe it truly harms somebody…to spare them.

    I still don’t understand how you explain away the beating heart?? I have looked at it every which way…I am not “promoting” propaganda, or fighting for a “side”…I am saying there is a serious logical and moral problem with saying that the heart beat doesn’t matter in the discussion. If it has a heat beat then it’s alive. If you don’t agree with that, then you are basically saying its o.k to kill an older somebody because they don’t look like what you think a human should look like.
    You are right in that it’s not a complete kid…that could survive on its own right away. For the sake of argument, pretend all of the sudden our society was really into “grandpas” …for instance to be one was to be considered “fully human”. If you didn’t have grey hair, then you weren’t given your full rights. So we could go around killing toddlers because they “aren’t fully formed”?? No, just because they haven’t learned to walk or talk yet doesn’t mean they have just as much right to life as we do.
    Just some thoughts…I enjoy discussing it with you.

  • jarandeh

    Savoury-

    I have assisted in an abortion procedure (during medical school). Including making sure all the products of conception were accounted for. And yes, it was a serious, even profound experience that I will always remember. It has shaped my personal views on abortion.

    That doesn’t change the fact that it ought to be safe, legal, and rare.

  • jarandeh

    Savoury-

    I have assisted in an abortion procedure (during medical school). Including making sure all the products of conception were accounted for. And yes, it was a serious, even profound experience that I will always remember. It has shaped my personal views on abortion.

    That doesn’t change the fact that it ought to be safe, legal, and rare.

  • Savoury

    Jarendah,
    I actually believe it is you who over simplify the issue. Your view point seems to be that “since we can’t prove it alive one way or the other then get rid of it” I don’t want to go around “getting rid of things”.
    A far as brain dead people go, I have a sister who is brain damaged…All of her left side of the brain is gone and most of her right. I don’t consider her dead in any way. She is a human. She eats, drinks, and I believe can feel. Our family has a huge history with brain dead people. I think they still have much rights as we do.
    I would love to know what you deem the essentials of being a human deserving of rights? I would be interested in knowing…Thanks for entering the discussion!

  • Savoury

    Jarendah,
    I actually believe it is you who over simplify the issue. Your view point seems to be that “since we can’t prove it alive one way or the other then get rid of it” I don’t want to go around “getting rid of things”.
    A far as brain dead people go, I have a sister who is brain damaged…All of her left side of the brain is gone and most of her right. I don’t consider her dead in any way. She is a human. She eats, drinks, and I believe can feel. Our family has a huge history with brain dead people. I think they still have much rights as we do.
    I would love to know what you deem the essentials of being a human deserving of rights? I would be interested in knowing…Thanks for entering the discussion!

  • kewake

    You know, if you ever spent anytime with people who pray in front of abortion clinics, maybe that could help you understand why they are there. They are mentally fine. Sure, just like every group there have been some idiots. So, you judge thousands based on a few bad eggs? That is judging. You are doing exactly what you claim all of those people protesting are doing. I have seen minds changed by those people. Lives saved. Women relieved that those people were there to help them do what in their hearts they knew they really wanted to be able to do. Walk away.

  • kewake

    You know, if you ever spent anytime with people who pray in front of abortion clinics, maybe that could help you understand why they are there. They are mentally fine. Sure, just like every group there have been some idiots. So, you judge thousands based on a few bad eggs? That is judging. You are doing exactly what you claim all of those people protesting are doing. I have seen minds changed by those people. Lives saved. Women relieved that those people were there to help them do what in their hearts they knew they really wanted to be able to do. Walk away.

  • Savoury

    Jarandeh,
    Since you are a medical man…I would truly be interested in your oppinion: when do you think a fetus [which in Latin means "little one" or "baby"] is a true human?

  • Savoury

    Jarandeh,
    Since you are a medical man…I would truly be interested in your oppinion: when do you think a fetus [which in Latin means "little one" or "baby"] is a true human?

  • cricket44

    A few?? Try again.

  • Savoury

    Really? How did I do that?

  • cricket44

    A few?? Try again.

  • Savoury

    Really? How did I do that?

  • Savoury

    And also Jarandeh… just because something is “safe, legal, and rare” doesn’t make it right. Many horrible things have been done [both in the past and present] under those names.

  • Savoury

    And also Jarandeh… just because something is “safe, legal, and rare” doesn’t make it right. Many horrible things have been done [both in the past and present] under those names.

  • dcrswm

    My bad, thought you were the original commenter.

  • dcrswm

    My bad, thought you were the original commenter.

  • dcrswm

    As to your comment below, rights are granted to PERSONS, and as personhood status is not extended to fetuses they actually don’t have rights.

  • dcrswm

    As to your comment below, rights are granted to PERSONS, and as personhood status is not extended to fetuses they actually don’t have rights.

  • dcrswm

    Since religious people are such good people why is the VAST majority of our prison system filled with the religious?

  • dcrswm

    Since religious people are such good people why is the VAST majority of our prison system filled with the religious?

  • Savoury

    Again, I put the question: Says who? Why don’t they have rights? Are you saying that we can just decide who we want to bestow rights to and who we don’t? You have to prove first they aren’t humans. If you discount the fact that they have a beating heart how do you define life? Somebody you’re willing to let live?? That doesn’t seem fair to me. I really want to know what you’re thinking…and why.

  • Savoury

    Again, I put the question: Says who? Why don’t they have rights? Are you saying that we can just decide who we want to bestow rights to and who we don’t? You have to prove first they aren’t humans. If you discount the fact that they have a beating heart how do you define life? Somebody you’re willing to let live?? That doesn’t seem fair to me. I really want to know what you’re thinking…and why.

  • cricket44

    “You have to prove first they aren’t humans.” No, he doesn’t. No person has the right to survive off the forced use of another person’s body.

  • cricket44

    “You have to prove first they aren’t humans.” No, he doesn’t. No person has the right to survive off the forced use of another person’s body.

  • Savoury

    Cricket44, babies aren’t monsters…and I’m not trying to “force” anyone…I’m saying that looking at YOUR body, YOUR life, YOUR choices, and the evidence, is it right to end the life of a fetus? You think not…your reasons? I don’t know…But question: would you say you have a right to live, make your own choices?

  • Savoury

    Cricket44, babies aren’t monsters…and I’m not trying to “force” anyone…I’m saying that looking at YOUR body, YOUR life, YOUR choices, and the evidence, is it right to end the life of a fetus? You think not…your reasons? I don’t know…But question: would you say you have a right to live, make your own choices?

  • dcrswm

    Something like 90%…….

  • dcrswm

    Something like 90%…….

  • nkri401

    “1.2 million abortions per year”

    What inferences can we draw?

    Lack of sex education? Lack of contraceptives? Irresponsible men?
    All of the above?

  • nkri401

    “1.2 million abortions per year”

    What inferences can we draw?

    Lack of sex education? Lack of contraceptives? Irresponsible men?
    All of the above?

  • Savoury

    Circket44, It wouldn’t let me post in the below links, so I’m replying here…probably for the last time I am sorry you think I have lost my logic, I never found yours. No, laws don’t force a woman to have a baby. She has sex and then has a baby…so you could say that sex has the potential to force you to have a baby. If you are pregnant…that’s not the baby’s fault or the state’s fault. If the state doesn’t provide means to kill the baby, then that’s not the state “forcing” you to have a baby. It’s the woman’s and man’s responsibility if they’re expecting…if the state doesn’t provide means to rid them of this life…that’s not “forcing” them. The baby is going to come out one way or the other and if the state doesn’t force the baby out by abortion, he/she is going to be naturally born…that’s not force, but the way of life. Eventually, Cricket, your conscience does have to get involved with the discussion. I’d rather die myself than kill somebody innocent…You can’t prove at least scientifically that it’s not a baby…but you are willing to emotionally, wholeheartedly invest in its ruin. I like to fully prove something before I stand behind and defend it.

  • Savoury

    Circket44, It wouldn’t let me post in the below links, so I’m replying here…probably for the last time I am sorry you think I have lost my logic, I never found yours. No, laws don’t force a woman to have a baby. She has sex and then has a baby…so you could say that sex has the potential to force you to have a baby. If you are pregnant…that’s not the baby’s fault or the state’s fault. If the state doesn’t provide means to kill the baby, then that’s not the state “forcing” you to have a baby. It’s the woman’s and man’s responsibility if they’re expecting…if the state doesn’t provide means to rid them of this life…that’s not “forcing” them. The baby is going to come out one way or the other and if the state doesn’t force the baby out by abortion, he/she is going to be naturally born…that’s not force, but the way of life. Eventually, Cricket, your conscience does have to get involved with the discussion. I’d rather die myself than kill somebody innocent…You can’t prove at least scientifically that it’s not a baby…but you are willing to emotionally, wholeheartedly invest in its ruin. I like to fully prove something before I stand behind and defend it.

  • Savoury

    I am missing a period in the “probably for the last time” sentence. All I was saying is that I am only going to reply maybe once more I have spent a good deal of time on this forum…I wish you the very best, and hope truth guides you wherever you go! Thanks so much for debating this topic with me! Its always good to hear a different perspective as it challenges your own. I still stick to my view point in that: a fetus is a child as it can’t be proved otherwise, and to end its life is simply wrong…even if it costs the mother a great deal: it isn’t the baby’s fault. Women now a days have to go through a lot, and I think men are absolute pigs sometimes…but again that isn’t the baby’s fault. When at all possible I want to be just…as I hope all true women will want to be. I challenge you to reconsider your view point. Sometimes something that seems justifiable isn’t upon closer examination. I wish you the very best…

  • Savoury

    I am missing a period in the “probably for the last time” sentence. All I was saying is that I am only going to reply maybe once more I have spent a good deal of time on this forum…I wish you the very best, and hope truth guides you wherever you go! Thanks so much for debating this topic with me! Its always good to hear a different perspective as it challenges your own. I still stick to my view point in that: a fetus is a child as it can’t be proved otherwise, and to end its life is simply wrong…even if it costs the mother a great deal: it isn’t the baby’s fault. Women now a days have to go through a lot, and I think men are absolute pigs sometimes…but again that isn’t the baby’s fault. When at all possible I want to be just…as I hope all true women will want to be. I challenge you to reconsider your view point. Sometimes something that seems justifiable isn’t upon closer examination. I wish you the very best…

  • ALWR

    Do what you want with your own body. Poke it with a wire till you bleed to death, hack it into little pieces, poison it or whatever. It is your body and your choice. BUT.. a baby in your womb is not your body. It is a unique and wonderfully made human being that shares parts of it’s parents. Women are the vessels that brings these living beings into the world. Women are not the creators of life nor posses the power to chose who gets to live and who doesn’t. Abortion is murder. No matter what way you turn it, it is still murder. How sad that humans would cater to such evil, disposing of an innocent baby just because it cramps their style.
    The fact that people would feel so attacked and are angry against those who chose to protect the unborn just proves that the decision they made to murder their child continues to caused pain and heartache and didn’t just disappear under the rug or got sucked out with a vacuum. It’s more like it got swept under the rug but keeps rearing it’s head out demanding justice.
    FYI: Rape and incest are reported as reasons for less than 1% of all abortions.

  • ALWR

    Do what you want with your own body. Poke it with a wire till you bleed to death, hack it into little pieces, poison it or whatever. It is your body and your choice. BUT.. a baby in your womb is not your body. It is a unique and wonderfully made human being that shares parts of it’s parents. Women are the vessels that brings these living beings into the world. Women are not the creators of life nor posses the power to chose who gets to live and who doesn’t. Abortion is murder. No matter what way you turn it, it is still murder. How sad that humans would cater to such evil, disposing of an innocent baby just because it cramps their style.
    The fact that people would feel so attacked and are angry against those who chose to protect the unborn just proves that the decision they made to murder their child continues to caused pain and heartache and didn’t just disappear under the rug or got sucked out with a vacuum. It’s more like it got swept under the rug but keeps rearing it’s head out demanding justice.
    FYI: Rape and incest are reported as reasons for less than 1% of all abortions.

  • gilmoregal

    Completely agree, even as I say that we still have to be respectful as we engage people. Change can happen and think it is happening now. Those who recognize the primacy of life over all other considerations have to be persistent, patient, and empathetic. We will be engaging people who have been lied to or who have lied to themselves for many years about what abortion really is. It is never easy for anyone to admit that they were duped or that they were wrong. So pray for those you are going to talk to before you do so, call on their guardian angel maybe, and then talk. It will happen.

  • gilmoregal

    Completely agree, even as I say that we still have to be respectful as we engage people. Change can happen and think it is happening now. Those who recognize the primacy of life over all other considerations have to be persistent, patient, and empathetic. We will be engaging people who have been lied to or who have lied to themselves for many years about what abortion really is. It is never easy for anyone to admit that they were duped or that they were wrong. So pray for those you are going to talk to before you do so, call on their guardian angel maybe, and then talk. It will happen.

  • ccnl1

    The important nitty-gritty:

    From the Guttmacher Institute:

    The most effective forms of contraception, ranked by “Perfect use”:

    - (Abstinence, 0% failure rate)
    - (Masturbation, mono or mutual, 0% failure rate)

    Followed by:

    One-month injectable and Implant (both at 0.05 percent)
    Vasectomy and IUD (Mirena) (both at 0.1 percent)
    The Pill, Three-month injectable, and the Patch (all at 0.3 percent)
    Tubal sterilization (at 0.5 percent)
    IUD (Copper-T) (0.6 percent)
    Periodic abstinence (Post-ovulation) (1.0 percent)
    Periodic abstinence (Symptothermal) and Male condom (both at 2.0 percent)
    Periodic abstinence (Ovulation method) (3.0 percent)

    Every other method ranks below these, including Withdrawal (4.0), Female condom (5.0), Diaphragm (6.0), Periodic abstinence (calendar) (9.0), the Sponge (9.0-20.0, depending on whether the woman using it has had a child in the past), Cervical cap (9.0-26.0, with the same caveat as the Sponge), and Spermicides (18.0).

  • ccnl1

    The important nitty-gritty:

    From the Guttmacher Institute:

    The most effective forms of contraception, ranked by “Perfect use”:

    - (Abstinence, 0% failure rate)
    - (Masturbation, mono or mutual, 0% failure rate)

    Followed by:

    One-month injectable and Implant (both at 0.05 percent)
    Vasectomy and IUD (Mirena) (both at 0.1 percent)
    The Pill, Three-month injectable, and the Patch (all at 0.3 percent)
    Tubal sterilization (at 0.5 percent)
    IUD (Copper-T) (0.6 percent)
    Periodic abstinence (Post-ovulation) (1.0 percent)
    Periodic abstinence (Symptothermal) and Male condom (both at 2.0 percent)
    Periodic abstinence (Ovulation method) (3.0 percent)

    Every other method ranks below these, including Withdrawal (4.0), Female condom (5.0), Diaphragm (6.0), Periodic abstinence (calendar) (9.0), the Sponge (9.0-20.0, depending on whether the woman using it has had a child in the past), Cervical cap (9.0-26.0, with the same caveat as the Sponge), and Spermicides (18.0).

  • persiflage

    Human life is no more sacred than any other life form on the planet from a scientific viewpoint. Sacred and profane are artificial constructs that traditionally have helped people arrange culturally contrived values and beliefs in their proper order – and all of this is learned behavior.

    Religious folks just happen to take the conceptual perspective that human life is sacred and unique to the planet – and with a special destiny beyond the physical universe. And suddenly, a fetus achieves a special status that preempts the reproductive rights of women the world over – on a planet teeming with people who are denied the basic resources to sustain life. Quite a contradiction by any standard.

    What the anti-choice crowd is unwilling to do is outline the proper punishment for those that participate in an abortion procedure – should the laws that allow legal termination of a pregnancy within the prescribed time frame ever be overturned by SCOTUS. As it is, the Supreme Court will soon be confronted by new state-sponsored legislation from anti-abortion states largely run by men with religious convictions.

    Forced birth is human slavery, pure and simple. That is the only black and white part of a very complex issue full of gray areas. The religious admonition against the use of conventional birth control is a special kind of regressive religious fanaticism cloaked in religious piety……….and espoused by celibate men in red hats.

  • persiflage

    Human life is no more sacred than any other life form on the planet from a scientific viewpoint. Sacred and profane are artificial constructs that traditionally have helped people arrange culturally contrived values and beliefs in their proper order – and all of this is learned behavior.

    Religious folks just happen to take the conceptual perspective that human life is sacred and unique to the planet – and with a special destiny beyond the physical universe. And suddenly, a fetus achieves a special status that preempts the reproductive rights of women the world over – on a planet teeming with people who are denied the basic resources to sustain life. Quite a contradiction by any standard.

    What the anti-choice crowd is unwilling to do is outline the proper punishment for those that participate in an abortion procedure – should the laws that allow legal termination of a pregnancy within the prescribed time frame ever be overturned by SCOTUS. As it is, the Supreme Court will soon be confronted by new state-sponsored legislation from anti-abortion states largely run by men with religious convictions.

    Forced birth is human slavery, pure and simple. That is the only black and white part of a very complex issue full of gray areas. The religious admonition against the use of conventional birth control is a special kind of regressive religious fanaticism cloaked in religious piety……….and espoused by celibate men in red hats.

  • ispybs

    If the standard by which you measure value is soley scientific, why do you apparently have a problem with human slavery?

    Having no moral standard IS a moral standard.

  • ispybs

    If the standard by which you measure value is soley scientific, why do you apparently have a problem with human slavery?

    Having no moral standard IS a moral standard.

  • persiflage

    Moral standards are cultural artifacts that are disseminated in various ways – all of which involve the learning process. Morality is not at all dependent on religious beliefs, but is based on other fundamental factors that relate to survival, cultural co-dependence, reciprocity,cultural identity, and other socio-cultural determinants.

    The only folks without discernabl and predictable moral standards that involve empathy for others are those afflicted by certain psychotic conditions, and particularly those with behavioral disorders involving sociopathy and extreme narcissicim…….and they can be found at every level of society.

    Meanwhile, cultural values remain arbitray and relative to time, place, and circumstance.

  • persiflage

    Moral standards are cultural artifacts that are disseminated in various ways – all of which involve the learning process. Morality is not at all dependent on religious beliefs, but is based on other fundamental factors that relate to survival, cultural co-dependence, reciprocity,cultural identity, and other socio-cultural determinants.

    The only folks without discernabl and predictable moral standards that involve empathy for others are those afflicted by certain psychotic conditions, and particularly those with behavioral disorders involving sociopathy and extreme narcissicim…….and they can be found at every level of society.

    Meanwhile, cultural values remain arbitray and relative to time, place, and circumstance.

  • abeerwinkle

    Forced birth would be “human slavery” if the conception was also being forced by the same entity.

  • abeerwinkle

    Forced birth would be “human slavery” if the conception was also being forced by the same entity.

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Why I Want to Be Culturally Evangelical

I’ve lost my faith. Do I have to lose my heritage, too?

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What Is a Saint?

How the diversity of saintly lives reveals multiple paths toward God.

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An Ayatollah’s Gift to Baha’is, Iran’s Largest Religious Minority

An ayatollah offers a beautiful symbolic gesture against a backdrop of violent persecution.

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Cleaner, Lighter, Closer

What’s a fella got to do to be baptized?

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Magical Thinking and the Canonization of Two Popes

Why Pope Francis is canonizing two popes for all of the world wide web to see.

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Pope Francis: Stop the Culture of Waste

What is the human cost of our tendency to throw away?

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“Sometimes You Find Something Quiet and Holy”: A New York Story

In a hidden, underground sanctuary, we were all together for a few minutes in this sweet and holy mystery.

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Mary Magdalene, the Closest Friend of Jesus

She’s been ignored, dismissed, and misunderstood. But the story of Easter makes it clear that Mary was Jesus’ most faithful friend.

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From Passover to Easter: Why I’m Grateful to be Jewish, Christian, and Alive

Passover with friends. Easter with family. It’s almost enough to make you believe in God.

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Top 10 Reasons We’re Glad A Catholic Colbert Is Taking Over Letterman’s “Late Show”

How might we love Stephen Colbert as the “Late Show” host? Let us count the ways.

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God’s Not Dead? Why the Good News Is Better than That

The resurrection of Jesus is not a matter of private faith — it’s a proclamation for the whole world.

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The Three Most Surprising Things Jesus Said

Think you know Jesus? Some of his sayings may surprise you.

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Jesus, Bunnies, and Colored Eggs: An Explanation of Holy Week and Easter

So, Easter is a one-day celebration of Jesus rising from the dead and turning into a bunny, right? Not exactly.