On Homosexuality, Many Christians Get the Bible Wrong

Will Christians of tomorrow read the Bible’s homosexuality passages the way Christians of today read the slavery passages?

Homosexuality is one of the most divisive issues within churches and across our country today. The issue has become, for some, a litmus test on fidelity to God and the scriptures. The divide is not just between the progressives and conservatives. It is also a generational divide, with younger Christians generally seeing this issue differently than older Christians.

I recently delivered the sermon for the National Prayer Service at the presidential inauguration. While in Washington I took my family to the Lincoln Memorial. This iconic structure stands as a reminder of America’s great dream of equality and President Lincoln’s role in the emancipation of America’s slaves and the abolition of slavery in America. The words to Lincoln’s Second Inaugural Address are inscribed on the north wall of the memorial’s interior. In them Lincoln noted that at the center of the conflict over slavery were very different interpretations of the Bible. Lincoln said of the two sides in the war, “Both read the same Bible and pray to the same God, and each invokes His aid against the other.”

Southern preachers and slave owners believed the many references in the Bible permitting and regulating slavery (well over 100 verses), in both the Old and the New Testaments, were clear evidence that the institution was a part of God’s social and moral order. Abolitionist preachers argued in their sermons that the verses related to slavery in the Bible were a reflection of the cultural context and times in which the Bible was written and did not reflect God’s endorsement of slavery. They argued that there were “weightier” scriptures on justice, mercy and love that superseded those on slavery. This was the position that Lincoln himself adopted.

At the center of the divide over homosexuality today is the Bible. Conservatives and progressives “read from the same Bible and pray to the same God, and each invokes His aid against the other.”

There are a handful of Scriptures (five or eight depending upon how one counts) that specifically speak of same-sex intimacy as unacceptable to God. Conservatives or traditionalists see these as reflecting God’s timeless will for human relationships. Progressives look at these same scriptures in much the same way that progressives in the nineteenth century looked at the Bible’s teaching on slavery. They believe that these verses capture the cultural understandings and practices of sexuality in biblical times, but do not reflect God’s will for gay and lesbian people.

In my own life, it was both reading the Bible’s passages on same-sex intimacy in the same light as passages on slavery (and violence and the place of women) and coming to know gay and lesbian people that led me to see this issue differently, particularly children who grew up in my church who loved God and sought to serve Christ. As I listened to their stories I saw that they did not fit the stereotypes I had been taught about gay and lesbian people. The love they shared with others looked very much like the love I share with my wife –a deep friendship and companionship. And their faith was as authentic as that of anyone else in my congregation.

For many Christians today, particularly young adults, the handful of Bible verses related to same sex intimacy seem more like the 100 plus verses on slavery than they do the teachings of Jesus and his great commandments to love God and neighbor. Their gay and lesbian friends are people, just like them, in need of love and community. I believe that in the years ahead an increasing number of Christians, not only progressives, but also conservatives, will read the Bible’s passages regarding homosexuality as all Christians today read the Bible’s passages on slavery. And the sermons preached from America’s pulpits decrying the rights of homosexuals today will sound to future generations much like the pro-slavery sermons sound to us today.

Adam Hamilton
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  • JESUS_CHRIST_LIVES

    So you know gay people who love their partner in a deep, meaningful way, like you love your wife. That “loving relationship” makes the gay lifestyle okay, then? How about a married man who has a “loving relationship” with a woman other than his wife? Do we accept that behavior because the two are engaged in a “loving relationship”? I would say not. We need to tell that man and woman, or that man and man/woman and woman that they are living in sin! The Apostle Paul wrote, “1 Cor 6:18 Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body.” In this, Paul reminds us that we were created in the image of God, and sexual sin degrades and decimates that image. Tell me I a wrong, Adam. Show me where this is not true? We are to be living sacrifices, yielding our bodies for God’s purposes, not our own. Heterosexual sex in the marriage is the standard that God established. The LGBT community wants to rewrite that standard, and you are going along with it. Love the sinner, but hate the sin. Some will listen, many will not. Equating anti-homosexual sermons to slavery sermons seems wrong on so many levels. One does not sin being a slave. But one does sin practicing sexual immorality.

    • joyinsoul

      I am also curious as to how Mr. Hamilton counsels fornicators, as well. If an unmarried woman and an unmarried man have a relationship that fits this description: “The love they shared with others looked very much like the love I share with my wife –a deep friendship and companionship”, is Mr. Hamilton going to say that their faith is authentic, as well?

      Just because we are called to love a homosexual, an adulterer or a fornicator does not mean that we should accept their sin. Reading 1 Corinthians 5 gives instruction on how to handle a sexually immoral person in the Church.

      If Mr. Hamilton believes that what God considers sin changes with the passage of time (God’s creation) and society (also God’s creation), then I suggest that Mr. Hamilton learn about the immutability of God.

      • VD65

        There you go again. Do you follow Jesus or Paul? Everything if you have read Biblical history is iffy about anything Paul had to say. The apostles called him the snake.

        • 21stNow

          2 Timothy 3:16-17.

          • Top Tiger

            Amen! All scripture is GOD-BREATHED!

          • Seb Crawford

            This statement if you read in context refers to the old testement which was then known as scripture! The new testement didn’t exist at the time of this statement and therefore does not refer to the whole Bible

        • Seb Crawford

          Absolutely! Paul the self professed 13th Apostle

          • Rebecca Behrent

            I’m going to settle this once and for all! Paul was indeed the last apostle. I base this on the following:

            Apostles were to bear witness to the fact that Jesus had risen from the dead. In order to do this, they had to have seen him after he was resurrected.

            And [Jesus] said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day… And ye are witnesses of these things.Luke 24:46-48

            When looking for someone to replace Judas, the one chosen had to be a witness unto the resurrection.

            Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

            Acts 1:22

            Jesus told the apostles:

            But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.Acts 1:8

            And that is exactly what they did.

            And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.Acts 4:33

            Paul the apostle, in defending his apostleship, appealed to the fact that he had seen Jesus after he had risen from the dead.

            Am I not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord?1 Corinthians 9:1After that, he [JESUS] was seen of James; then of all the apostles. And last of all he was seen of me [PAUL] also, as of one born out of due time. For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.1 Corinthians 15:7-9

            This LAST passage is devastating for those who believe that there are apostles today. In order to be an apostle one has to have seen Jesus after he rose from the dead. Paul says that Jesus was seen last of all by him. He is the last one to see Jesus after his resurrection. Since no one since Paul has seen Jesus, no one since Paul can be an apostle. Therefore, there can be no apostles today.

          • Seb Crawford

            You haven’t settled this. You’ve used Paul’s own word to careful Paul as an apostle. There are no other written accounts that Paul saw Jesus only his own account and that of Luke who is know to be one of Paul’s followers. This is hardly objective evidence. Paul claims to have seen Jesus after he ascended. Was this a delusion?

            Jesus said (I’ll paraphrase), Lo; if anyone shall say I’m an in the desert, believe him not.. And this is exactly what happened with Paul. He ‘saw’ Jesus in the desert on the road to Damascus. There are 2 conflicting statements if you look at them carefully. Paul even contradicts himself and Luke gives another varying account. If someone testifies of themselves then that testimony does not stand. Jesus taught this. Mathias is the 12th appostle to replace Judas And the wall of the city had twelve foundation stones, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. (Revelation 21:14 NASB)

          • Seb Crawford

            To the angel of the church in Ephesus write: The One who holds the seven stars in His right hand, the One who walks among the seven golden lampstands, says this:

            ‘I know your deeds and your toil and perseverance, and that you cannot tolerate evil men, and you put to the test those who call themselves apostles, and they are not, and you found them to be false (Revelation 2:1 – 2:2 NASB)

            Paul particularly taught to those in Ephesus is well known if you study history and the Bible. It’s not a coincidence that Jesus in revelation commends the Ephesians

          • Seb Crawford

            Also, carefully seeking God and study of the Bible make it quite clear that Paul was very likely the wolf in Sheep’s clothing that corrupted Christianity and made it the devastating, confusing mess it is today. Attack of the church started the second Jesus was on earth. Don’t be fooled into thinking that deception waited till now to take place. It started right there and then shortly after the ministry of Jesus.

          • Seb Crawford

            Only those who sincerely desire to know the truth with all their heart will find it. This is how God knows we are sincere. He’s testing us to know wether we genuinely want to know him personally or weather we follow the conceits of man and happy to just follow religion and what the pastor (man) tells us. Following Man and a man made book instead of following Jesus and waking in the spirit of all truth. We need not that any man shall teach you, for the spirit shall lead you into all truth. This statement was made before the new testement was established as such.

          • Seb Crawford

            Ok you haven’t really settled this. Notice only Paul ‘saw’ Jesus with no verification from anyone else. Apart from Luke’s hear say. Account of the conversion. Which contradicts Paul’s. Paul also contradicts his own account whilst reflecting the conversion to another church. It is well known Luke was a follower of Paul). Jesus taught that if he witness of himself it wasn’t a witness at all. Jesus also said (I’m paraphrasing): lo if anyone shall say, I am in the desert, believe him not.. And here we find Paul in the desert on the road to Damascus claiming to have seen Jesus. With no other witness to this event.

          • Seb Crawford

            Revelation makes it quite clear there were only 12 apostles: And the wall of the city had twelve foundation stones, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. (Revelation 21:14 NASB) NOT 13 as you assert in your obscure view of reality. Please seek God for the truth. Trust in him, not some man made Bible (though there is truth and testimony in it). You have to seek God who leads us into all truth. Be open to what the spirit says. Follow Jesus. A loving being, not a dead letter, the bible. There’s a big difference between the 2. Lead by the spirit or lead by a book?

    • tracie

      It shouldn’t matter what people think, God’s word the Bible is True, we are under the law of grace, we just will never be right until we die and live again. God is taking all of our spirit, we will be judged. Know where you going according to the Bible when you die, that’s what’s up. Do the right things one day at a time, and love love love.

      ,

      • Seb Crawford

        What proof do you have that the Bible is true?! This Bible exports you to give an account to people of that which you believe

    • VD65

      It’s not a matter of whether you do or do not accept anything. YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO JUDGE. You must leave that to God. Besides Christianity is not the only belief system on Earth.

    • Pedro

      Then do you think that Solomon, David, Moses and so on are in Heaven or Hell? Cause they had multiple wives! So by today standards they should be in Hell, cause they committed fornication, they had more than one wife with whom they had sex with.

    • Retrodude

      I love my partner of 19 years just like you love your wife. Love is LOVE, no matter what sex you are.

      • JESUS_CHRIST_LIVES

        Are you a follower of Christ? If so, you are living in sin, and you should repent and stop living like that, since the Bible is very clear that sexual immorality, among other things, should not be tolerated in the body of Christ. That is what a real believer in Jesus would do. It might mean not having a partner anymore for the rest of your life. Sounds like a heavy price to pay, I imagine. Not really, considering that Jesus Christ DIED on the cross, bearing all of your sins and mine, so that by merely believing in Him we would receive, immediately, eternal life.

        Being reborn spiritually is awesome, and the joy of knowing Jesus is tremendous. I can’t imagine living a day without Him! I hope you have that same hope, that same joy as I do! If not, start seeking out Jesus. I will tell you, however, that you can not go on living the homosexual life style as a believer in Jesus. You will be convicted of that, and it will be your choice – either love Jesus, or gay sex. Which is more important?

        • Seb Crawford

          What makes you so sure that the Bible is of God? Jesus is the way the truth and the Life and those who come to him (an actual living being) will live. He didn’t teach that the Bible was the way the truth and the life? Your are commended to give an account of that which you believe by your Bible. I look forward to your response. Be blessed

        • KPC

          You cannot call yourself a Christian if you are sitting here JUDGING someone else and telling them they are living in sin. I can’t believe it is 2014 and people still say things like that “you are living in sin and you should repent and stop living like that.” I am a heterosexual, married, Christian woman and it brings me to tears to read your hateful speech. LOVE THY NEIGHBOR. ONLY GOD CAN JUDGE. To say that you need to choose to either love Jesus or love Gay sex is so incredibly ignorant. Do you think people are gay solely because of the sex….I’m sure homo/hetero sex would feel just as incredible….so if it really was just about sex, don’t you think gay people would make their own lives easier and avoid hateful people like you by just having hetero sex. I mean….maybe I am rambling out of sheer shock….but, this is about LOVE, being Christlike, and what is in your heart….Just writing about this actually makes me feel filled with the Holy Spirit….the Holy Spirit compelling me to spread love in the world, and treat others the way I would like to be treated.

      • Rebecca Behrent

        How can you call it “love” when it causes physical damage and/or disease to engage in these sexual practices?

        • Retrodude

          You sad, ignorant woman. It does NOT cause physical damage or disease. NEWSFLASH- heterosexuals can get diseases just as much as homosexuals. And not sure what you even mean about physical damage. Love is love- we are taught to hate, dear. Now, did YOU choose to be heterosexual? How old where you when you chose to be straight?

          • Rebecca Behrent

            I don’t hate you. Hate involves the telling or perpetuating of lies. Satan is the “father of all lies”. God is Love. Love involves the courage to speak the truth. Truth comes from following the Word of God when you are a Christian. Truth is also revealed in the nature that God created all around us. I love homosexuals enough to share the light of the Truth of God’s Word with them!

          • Retrodude

            Here’s the deal. We don’t all follow YOUR beliefs! Christians are SO arrogant, you truly assume that YOUR beliefs are the only right ones! Astounding! Honey, Satan DOES NOT EXIST- you have been duped. Sorry, I don’t believe in talking snakes or men swallowed by giant fish and who live to tell the tale. Fairy tales. THE TRUTH is that we are born gay, just like we are born straight. It’s not Satan, it’s not demons, i’ts our DNA. You failed to answer when YOU chose to be heterosexual. See, we are all born with both male and female DNA. Some men get more female DNA than others- the chromosomes that are attracted to males. Some men get even more female DNA at birth- hence the effeminate gay men. Same thing with lesbians. It’s embarrassingly easy to figure out, but you crazy Christians are so entrenched in your dogma and talking points you cannot see reason whatsoever. You are cherry-picking from the Bible, and that is wrong, dear. If you are going to live a Biblical lifestyle, then don’t you dare work on Saturdays, don’t eat shellfish or pork, don’t wear fabrics made from different textiles, and being a female, don’t speak your mind and obey your master. Get it?

          • Rebecca Behrent

            I am sorry that you don’t believe. I’ve heard all your arguments from others, and I won’t begin to engage in a fruitless discussion with you. All I can do is feel sorry for you. We are all born with a SIN NATURE, and with propensities towards one sinful thing or another. It does not mean we are forced to give into those propensities. I have my own propensities towards things that are sinful, but I “fight the good fight” and try to live as Christ-like a life as possible. My hope for you would be that you try to do the same. As a believer, when I die, if I am wrong for believing, then I face nothing. However, if you are wrong for NOT believing, then you face something quite different than what I face.

            However, given that you say you do not believe, I would ask you this: Why is it that so many LGBTQs are trying to force Christians and Christian churches to change what they believe? Why are you working so hard to destroy religious freedom, because that IS what you are trying to do, is it not? Many of you accuse Christians of trying to force their beliefs on you, but in fact, I see the opposite happening. Do you think it is right, by force of law, to shut down someone’s freedom of speech and freedom of religion? This is happening all over the world, and many are working to see that the same thing happens here. I and many Christians are not working to take away your freedom to choose to engage in whatever sexual behaviors you want. God make us beings of free choice, however, bear in mind he also set down consequences for our choices. I believe you have freedom of choice and freedom to follow whatever your conscience dictates, but many do not want to allow Christians that same freedom. Remember, when you start taking freedoms from others, one day others will come to take away YOUR freedoms.

          • Retrodude

            We aren’t trying to change any churches. Churches can practice whatever insane beliefs they choose. All WE are asking is the same rights granted us as Americans, and it’s mostly CHURCHES hindering that from happening. Because, you know, it’s all YOUR business and all. And dear, you have as much religious freedom as you want! Are you insane? You can pray 24/7, all day long, in public as much as you want! THERE IS NO DAMN WAR ON RELIGION! You just cannot incorporate your beliefs into our government, because GUESS WHAT- not all Americans are Christian! We left England FOR THAT REASON, hon. You can say or think whatever the hell you want, but freedom of speech works BOTH WAYS. Something you braindead Christian conservatives cannot figure out whatsoever. Duck Dynasty dude has every right to say what he thinks, but when you work for a PUBLIC company, you sign an agreement. No public company wants to be associated with anything racist or homophobic- it’s bad for business. Christians ARE trying to enforce beliefs onto others- they come knocking on my door even! They ask to pray for me. That is RUDE. Keep your beliefs to yourself, because frankly nobody cares. Now mind your OWN business and stop trying to prevent gay marriage from happening. It’s not your choice, nor is it your business. OH and more and more churches ARE granting same sex marriage, and over 70% of Americans are FOR gay marriage. However, it’s incredibly INSULTING to have some airhead Christians crying that THEY are the ones losing freedoms. Because it’s ludicrous. You are free to attend any church you choose, as often as you like. Christmas comes before Halloween in most places now, and goes until New Year’s. NOBODY IS TRYING TO DESTROY RELIGIOUS FREEDOMS, you JUST CANNOT ENFORCE YOUR BELIEFS ONTO OTHERS. We aren’t trying to turn anybody gay, all we are asking for is THE SAME DAMN RIGHTS AFFORDED TO STRAIGHT PEOPLE! When did you choose to be heterosexual again? Why am I wasting my time- you are too delusional to even understand DNA. What did Jesus say about homosexuality again?

          • David Idoru

            70% of Americans are
            for gay marriage? Most Africans countries are not for gay marriage and that will remain
            so until we see our male dogs mating other male dogs.

          • Retrodude

            Who’s talking about Africa? They are still stoning to death gays over there, so I could give a crap what Africa thinks. But here in AMERICA, more and more people are for it. And equating homosexuality with beastiality is ridiculous and shallow, and just shows you have no argument. So sad. By the way= WHEN DID YOU CHOOSE TO BECOME A HETEROSEXUAL? At what age did you decide to be attracted to females?

          • David Idoru

            Come on, there is no bestiality between male dogs or animals. Bestiality is sexual activity between human and non-human animals. You should be able to know your language better than I. There are no gays being killed in Africa. It is all propaganda by some groups who are after your money.

          • Retrodude

            There ARE gays being killed in Africa. I’ve seen videos, dude. Don’t insult my intelligence. It’s NOT propaganda, it’s the LAW and I’ve watched numerous, horrible videos with poor gay men being stoned to death. Ever heard of a little place called UGANDA? Stop defending such ridiculousness. Now answer my question- WHEN DID YOU CHOOSE TO BE A STRAIGHT MAN?

          • David Idoru

            We don’t choose to be straight. Retrodude, your intelligence is not good enough. I leave in Uganda and I know the stories you are talking about better than you.

          • Retrodude

            Exactly. NOBODY chooses their sexuality. I never chose to be gay- I just AM. I am NOT attracted to females- never have been. Why? Because I am GAY. See, we are all born with both male and female DNA- some of us get more than others. It’s not sinful, it’s not demons. It’s natural. Homosexuality exists in over 1,400 species on Earth- homophobia only exists in ONE. Which is the more unnatural again? And please enlighten us on Uganda’s progressive stance on gays.

            The Uganda Anti-Homosexuality Act, 2014 (previously called the “Kill the Gays bill” in the western mainstream media due to the originally proposed death penalty clauses)[1][2][3][4] was passed by the Parliament of Uganda on 20 December 2013 with the death penalty proposal dropped in favour of life in prison. The bill was signed into law by the President of Uganda on 24 February 2014.[5][6]

            The legislative proposal would broaden the criminalisation of same-sex relations in Uganda domestically, and further includes provisions for Ugandans who engage in same-sex relations outside of Uganda, asserting that they may be extradited for punishment back to Uganda, and includes penalties for individuals, companies, media organisations, or non-governmental organisations that know of gay people or support LGBT rights.

            The private member’s bill was submitted by Member of Parliament David Bahati on 14 October 2009. Same-sex relationships are currently illegal in Uganda—as they are in many sub-Saharan African countries—punishable by incarceration in prison for up to 14 years. A special motion to introduce the legislation was passed a month after a two-day conference was held in which three American Christians asserted that homosexuality is a direct threat to the cohesion of African families. Several sources have noted endemic homophobia in Uganda has been exacerbated by the bill and the associated discussions about it.

            WHETHER STONING TO DEATH OR LIFE IN PRISON, YOUR COUNTRY HAS BARBARIC AND OUTDATED STANCES ON HOMOSEXUALITY. Is that REALLY what you guys should be focusing on? You have starving and desolate people, and you are imprisoning for LIFE gay people. Wow. Such mind-blowing intelligence there.

          • David Idoru

            Give me one person found guilty under this law and killed and I will give the name of the country that has barbaric laws. By way you need to update yourself with new law so that you don’t mislead other.

          • David Idoru

            Starving and desolate people or intelligent people? The people you think are being killed or imprisoned are busy driving big car bought with your money and no body is even trying to kill them. Stop being deceived by a few intelligent Ugandans.

            America has been exalted by God as a nation for giving and helping the need and for that I admire you and respect America. However for homosexuality and other the evil things you promote, God will bring you down.

            I hear you also borrow money from other countries. What will happen if China gets tired of you? Signs of the time.

            All mighty nations have fallen before God because of self destruction. America, the one and only superpower, will also press the the self destruction button fall in a terrible way. All the nations of the world would know that the might America has fallen because of sin.

          • Retrodude

            Homosexuality has existed since the first humans, and God is just NOW going to do something about it? RIGHT. Yawn. NEWSFLASH- we dont’ all enjoy your outdated, religious beliefs. And as you are far too dense to grasp this concept- ITS’ IN OUR DNA. Just like YOU were born straight, I was born GAY. God, you religious dunces are beyond comprehension.

          • David Idoru

            When I read these verses, I see you. You just need to know the truth and the truth will set you free.

            Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Rom 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

            Homosexuality has not been there more than sin. Homosexuality is as a result of sin (man’s rebellion against God) and that is why homosexual have this erratic behavior. If the changes in your DNA is the cause your disability, than it is because of sin (rebellion against God). Sin separates us for God for eternity (1Co 6:9).

            Don’t forget that every sin can be reversed through the work of the cross.

          • Seb Crawford

            Who served the creature more than God? Christians serve Christians Agendas based on aan made book. Christians idolise a book and put it before God! Endemic of mans ego! Jesus said he was the way the truth and the life, (as in actual being who we can commune with). Not some man made book full of contradictions and a plethora of open and confusing interpretations that no one can agree on!! The spirit leads us into all truth. You need not that anyan should teach you for the spirit shall lead you into all truth. This isn’t a concept, this is reality.

          • Seb Crawford

            Sorry the page won’t let me edit and correct the spelling mistakes.

          • Seb Crawford

            Here Here! If I hated something so much I wouldn’t allow it to go on for thousands of years! Also, Jesus clearly stated; ‘this generation shall in no wise pass away before the son of man shall come’ er. I think they died thousands of years ago!?

          • Rebecca Behrent

            Agree with you, David. I see my own country deep in sinful behavior, (and not just homosexual behavior) and I agree that we are in danger of drawing God’s wrath upon us.

          • Seb Crawford

            I love how people refer to an unproven book as fact when a mass of nature and reality completely contradicts it

          • Rebecca Behrent

            People are born every day with all sorts of abnormalities. Do you think being born mentally and/or physically handicapped is what God actually intended for mankind? This was not God’s plan! From a Biblical perspective, when sin came into the world, mankind and nature became corrupted from the beautiful creation it had been. And Satan was given a certain amount of dominion over the earth until Christ’s return. Satan is allowed to tempt mankind with all sorts of sins, and if you give in, you will naturally face the consequences. Unfortunately, so might your children, and your children’s children. For example, alcoholism can result in Fetal Alcohol Syndrome in an alcoholic’s children. The innocent suffer, hence ” . . . The sins of the father will be passed to his children . . .”. However, I do agree with you that life in prison for being homosexual is harsh. You must understand that although you and I disagree, I don’t believe in stoning or taking away your right to employment, housing, clothing, food, and other basic rights to life.

          • Retrodude

            SATAN DOES NOT EXIST. Nor does talking snakes. I could care less whether you agree with me being gay- it’s not your choice, it’s not your business, it’s not your problem. Yet YOU people ARE preventing us from all those things- YOU vote against our rights every single day. YOU disown your gay children in the name of YOUR church, YOU preach against us every single Sunday, YOU influence the weak-minded to hate. WE are not the problem in society- YOU are, with your backwards, ignorant, Biblical thinking THAT DOES NOT APPLY TO MODERN SOCIETY. Can you not see you have been duped, brain-washed? So sad. I am done arguing with you fundamental idiots who have the Bible shoved so far up YOUR anus you cannot see reason, science, intelligence, or common sense. Goodbye and shouldn’t you be out collecting for the poor or something, you know, something JESUS HIMSELF WOULD DO, instead of hating on gay people and judging them and calling them UNNATURAL?

          • Rebecca Behrent

            If Satan does not exist, and you do not believe, then please quit using our Bible to try to prove your points. If our thinking is truly backwards, then what are you afraid of? If we are as backwards, gullible and ignorant as you claim, it should be obvious to people and they will turn away. (P.S. – I am a college educated woman with a degree). So why are you so afraid? By the way, I was out just last night collecting for the poor.

          • Retrodude

            I’m not afraid of anything, dearest. And more and more people ARE turning away from the church. IN fact, church attendance is at an ALL-TIME LOW, and atheism is the new minority. Why? Because of people like YOU. People are sick of the hate, the ignorance, and the idiotic way of thinking that simply does not translate to modern times. The Bible was written by VERY uneducated men who had no knowledge of issues and mores we are just now figuring out with science. A book that condones inferiority of women, slavery, putting children to death, and many other horrible things- yet you scream to the world how fucking “moral” you are. PUKE. When was your last book-burning again? I will use YOUR Bible as much as I please- because you guys hate it when I throw your utter hypocrisy back in your faces. Here’s some more for ya.

            Dear Dr. Laura,

            Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God’s Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind him that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.

            I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to best follow them.

            a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

            b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

            c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

            d) Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can’t I own Canadians?

            e) I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

            f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an Abomination (Lev 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don’t agree. Can you settle this?

            g) Lev 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

            h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev 19:27. How should they die?

            i) I know from Lev 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

            j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev 24:10-16) Couldn’t we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

            I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help.

            Thank you again for reminding us that God’s word is eternal and unchanging.

            Your devoted disciple and adoring fan.

          • Rebecca Behrent

            Nice sarcasm. Most of this stuff I’ve been over before, such as the whole issue of slavery which, since you obviously didn’t bother to read the first time, I’m not going to educate you about it a second time. The issue of sacrificing animals occurred in the old testament. Animals were sacrificed because at the time, people were under the Law, and animal sacrifice was the only atonement and reconciliation with God that was available to them, until Jesus came and became a living sacrifice. Groups of people in the old testament were “smited” because their sacrifices consisted of things like burning their children ALIVE to the God Molech. After God’s great patience had finally run out, they were destroyed for continuing in such practices and for worshiping idols. Yes, some people are “smite-worthy” to God when they won’t listen to him. He is God, after all. Some of the laws you argue are dietary laws, or laws of another sort – not moral or spiritual laws. Many were put in place for the safety of people at the time – such as the one regarding eating pork, since trichinosis was prevalent at the time and led to a debilitating disease if consumed. Stoning and other practices disappeared with the New Covenant created by the shedding of Christ’s blood for us. And as Christ himself said in this passage: John 8:7 “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” This was Jesus’ response to a group of men who were going to stone an adulteress woman. Christians do not stone people, so please quit bringing that one up. All of the above in your post is simply twisted to mock God’s Word, and his Word is so poorly understood by you and others that all I can do is pity you.

          • Retrodude

            There you go again, just assuming that your beliefs are the only right ones. Lady, I know everything you just said. I DO understand. This letter was written to show how hypocritical people are with the Bible and being anti-gay. What does Jesus say about homosexuality? If being gay were such a mortal sin, wouldn’t it have been one of the Ten Commandments- but no, we get like 4 commandments from a jealous God saying not to worship any other! Your tiny mind cannot grasp that our sexuality is in our DNA- that some men get the female hormone that is attracted to males. That’s SCIENCE, not SIN. LOL you talk as if you were God’s personal secretary- when you have NO FLIPPING IDEA if what your’e spouting up there is really truth. Ooh, I’m gonna live my life based on an ancient book that’s been mistranslated and re-written countless times over the years! That’s some epic intelligence right there. Get yourself a nice hobby and really try and do something positive with your life. All this nasty judging of gay people will get you nowhere. But that’s what you Christians do best, right? JUDGE.

          • Retrodude

            MAYBE YOU NEED TO RE-READ THAT BOOK YOU KEEP HARPING ABOUT. Because frankly, YOU are the sinner here- YOU are judging others, and I’m pretty sure Jesus was dead set against that. What is the message of Jesus? To love one another and not to judge- and YOUR sorry ass apparently loves to judge gay people. Who doesn’t understand the Bible again? Pull your head out of your Old Testament ass and get some fresh air up there. You might see things in a whole different light. If being gay is a “sin” in the eyes of God, well, that’s MY problem when I die. NOT YOURS. Now kindly suck it and leave me the hell alone. If I want to hear biblical babble, I’ll just turn on the 700 Club, thanks.

          • Rebecca Behrent

            You are a sorry, angry person. I think I’ve touched a nerve that has made you perhaps question your thinking and lifestyle? Maybe down deep, you know there is something not quite right about it? Whatever. You’re right – it is your life and your struggle. My concern at this point is the LGBTQ juggernaut which seeks to impose its agenda on all of society, including Christians who don’t agree with it. When you begin stepping on the toes of the Christian church, and Christian individuals, seeking to bully your way into their churches and into their very lives, yes I will stand up and defend the right of Americans to think and exercise their faith freely. We do not live in communist China, where people are sent to “re-education camps” for not conforming to the ideas and practices of the state. As much as we dislike the way each of us thinks, the difference is that I actually support your right to choose to live and think as you wish. God created us as beings of free will. But, LGBTQs are not content with that. They want to control what we can say and do in our schools, churches, businesses and in public. They want to censor us and silence us completely, through the hammer of the law by getting things passed such as “hate speech” laws. What is “hate speech” anyway? Who decides? How far does it go? I think you’ve used hate speech against me. But I wouldn’t dream of censoring your right to express your opinions – ugly words and all.
            When it is all said and done, the real issue for me is my freedom of religion. A freedom so precious to the founding fathers, It is dealt with in Article I. By the way, “separation of church and state” is not in the Constitution, but is in a letter written by Jefferson to the Baptist church. And the concern is far more about the government imposing its will on religion and religious practices more than the other way around. Today, along with the government, we see groups like the LGBTQs trying to constrict and erode religious freedom. Not content that everyone does not think like you, you seek to control our minds, consciences and our very lives. Do not think that it will not come back to haunt you at some future point.

          • Retrodude

            LMAO! Hon, I’m 42 years old, and have been gay as long as I can remember. I have had COUNTLESS discussions, debates, and arguments with fundies like you over the years, and you think YOU are the one making me feel guilty over being gay? Typical Christian ARROGANCE again. THE LGBTQ

          • Seb Crawford

            Christianity has frankly controlled the masses long enough! We are simply trying regain our God given right to make our own conclusions about God! Now that Christianity is fading due to people becoming educated Christianity is feeling uncomfortable because it is causing cognitive dissonance! The world no longer conforms to the church and is thriving without Christianity and so you feel insecure because your precious belief is in jeopardy! It’s not about belief it’s about God. My beliefs are corrected every day because I’m humble enough to acknowledge I could be wrong.

          • Seb Crawford

            No we know there is something not right about what you spew out of your mouth and perpetuate in society! Views that cause hatred, killings and conflict and this is what makes us angry! So don’t flatter your own ego by again assuming you are right! You are not the only one who has studied the Babble! Judging others is wrong and I know I am wrong for judging you but I can’t stand by and watch ignorance perpetuate a hate filled society!

          • Seb Crawford

            You mean the ‘our’ bible you insist on shoving in our faces and insisting we ought to make our own! Hun some of us were ardent Christians (myself a Born again Christian) most of my life). I was very sincere and wholeheartedly believed your Bible! I also have a College education etc. intelligence doesn’t give people spiritual insight! It makes people blind. There is a way that seems right unto a man (based on his inter leftist understanding) which way leads to distruction. I don’t say this to hurt In just want to see our world be what God wanted and that up to us. He told us to Love. Not argue amongst ourselves. If someone harms you, turn the other cheek. It’s Gods business to address. Our Job is to Love. I what to see a world of Love, not conflict and it seems Bible believing Christians are the worst culprit of this. Especially when your honest with yourself and God as I was. Bless You

          • Seb Crawford

            Sorry about the spelling mistakes, every time I go to correct them, the browser jumps to the top of the page! lol

          • Seb Crawford

            Christians live in a state of dealing with they’re cognitive dissonance! Rather than accept something isn’t right about Christianity and their precious cherry picked beliefs they choose to fight the world which is of course incredibly loving! For me this is a complete poor mental state indeed! Akin to mental illness quite frankly! Guess what, even intelligent highly educated and prominent people are prone to mental problems and delusions! Doesn’t mean they’re views whilst deluded are right!

          • Seb Crawford

            Exactly doing the opposite of what Jesus taught! If Christians spent more time doing what Jesus actually taught, the world would be a less hate filled place! How ironic.

          • Seb Crawford

            So why does God allow this to go on for thousands of years if he could just put an end to it all? Also, why hasn’t Jesus returned despite telling a crowd of people that some standing there would not taste of death before his second coming?

          • Rebecca Behrent

            The only ones doing any stoning today are NOT Christians – but are of another faith. And your question of “When did you choose to be a straight man?” is ludicrous. God created all men to function in a natural way with women – or God would have provided the plumbing accordingly so that people could have natural sexual relations with the same sex! You cannot tell me that an orifice intended for waste elimination is structured for anything BUT that. The colon is very thin and unnatural sex can lead to tearing and viral and bacterial entry very easily. The sphincter muscles can be damaged by unnatural sex so badly you can end up wearing a colostomy bag for the rest of your life. Don’t tell me any of this is “natural” or “normal”.

          • Retrodude

            Oh you poor woman! We are NOT all supposed to reproduce, you sad, sad lady. Even in the animal kingdom, not every single animal reproduces- a female picks a male out of a pack and THEY reproduce. It is nature’s way of population control. Besides, not every straight person reproduces either. Thousands choose NOT to! And YES, the anus is full of nerve endings, and it is a pleasure point. You obviously have NO understanding whatsoever of how the human body works, or DNA, or any of that- you just think some magic man waves his wand and PRESTO. And where you got that info on colons is ridiculous. God, you people are downright frightening in your narrow-minded, delusional thinking. Of course it’s natural for some, and frankly, it’s none of your goddamn business either. Why Christians are so preoccupied with the sex lives of gay people is beyond me.

          • Rebecca Behrent

            God said, “Be fruitful, and multiply”. However, because of sin, there ARE those who aren’t fit to reproduce, and should not. Again, a result of the fall of mankind and the introduction of sin (corruption) into the world. That is the basis on which I actually agree with you. Christians are not preoccupied with the sex lives of gay people until and unless they begin to impinge upon our rights as Christians, which they are trying to do, via my post above. Your sins are no greater or lesser than other sins. It is in fact the LGBTQ movement which has forced these issues to the forefront, making it necessary in a lot of cases for Christians to get involved. It has become an issue of religious liberty in many cases.

          • Retrodude

            Were you there when he said this? Religion is nothing but OPINION at the end of the day- who says you are right? What makes some “unfit” to reproduce? That is the most stupid fucking thing I have ever read- many simply choose NOT to reproduce- we are overpopulated as it is. I am losing IQ points reading your insane drivel, and I am done. THE LGBTQ movement forced these issues to the front because people were DYING, you moron. People were being bashed, hated on, and had no rights. YOu sicken me, you fucking disgust me with your holier-than-thou, moral blabbering. FUCK OFF FOR GOOD.

          • Rebecca Behrent

            When I say “unfit” I mean that some are born with a physical or mental disability that makes them unable. I see where “unfit” wasn’t the kindest word to use and I apologize for that. Yes – there are those who choose not to reproduce. And it may be the best thing, and is even backed up by the Bible. For instance, it says in the Bible that it is better for preachers not to be married so they can be FULLY devoted to spreading the Gospel – although at the same time it does not say that it is wrong for them to be married and have a family. I’m sorry you hate me so much simply because of my opinions. I hope you know that I don’t hate you. But your anger does frighten me a bit – not your homosexuality, but your ANGER. I feel it is you who would stone me – am I right?

          • Retrodude

            I don’t hate anybody. Gay people, who have gone through their entire lives being judged, rarely hate anybody. We are above that. What I DO hate is discrimination, prejudice, ignorance. And of course I’m angry. I’ve seen many friends disowned completely by their families, told they were better off dead. I’ve seen friends beaten to a pulp or KILLED simply because they are gay and because it went against someone’s religion. I’ve seen frightened and confused teens contemplate suicide, for fear of their strictly religious family finding out. You’d better believe it makes me angry. We should be past all this as a civilization, but crazies like YOU keep this hate going, by commenting and puking your shitty and outdated beliefs onto comment threads like THIS. Makes me steaming mad that religious folks are still donating money to anit-gay groups, and boycotting companies that simply think everybody is equal and we all deserve love, compassion, respect,and equality. If you want a religion-based government, move to Somalia or Iran. However, here in America- we are all EQUAL AND FREE. You obviously feel strongly enough against gay people to leave all these comments. Wouldn’t YOU be angry if the shoe were on the other foot? Christians are not being persecuted, nor are they having any of their rights taken away. You are free to attend Church every night of the week at the church of your choice. You are free to donate as much as you choose to any church, and Christmas starts before Halloween in most places in America. However, you Christians are so arrogant, that’s not enough, and would gladly be running the country based on your beliefs if given the chance. I don’t hate anybody- I HATE the ignorance and judgments coming from you. Now STOP replying to me.

          • Rebecca Behrent

            But there is no judgment by people towards me? And I do not suffer discrimination for my beliefs? I am not stereotyped? I am not called names? I am not threatened? I have not been deliberately kept out of participating in certain groups or events? I haven’t been shunned? In fact, all these things have happened to me, which the Bible confirms will happen to Christians. Christians today in other parts of the world are being terribly persecuted – I mean men, women and children are being rounded up and killed simply for being Christian. I would bet the number of Christians being killed far surpasses the number of LGBTQs being killed. The way they are being killed is not pretty, either. How about the group in Nigeria, locked in the pastor’s home, which was then set on fire and men, women and children burned to death? Would you like to see an after picture of that? It’s available. And then I’m told “not to worry” – it’ll never come here. Honey, the signs are all around and building.
            The funny thing is, is that the LGBTQ movement seems to focus so exclusively on Christians as being the “enemy” that they forget how one religion, in particular, which still practices stoning, beheading and hanging, really feels about them. Yet you shy away from mentioning that particular religion in any depth, which is a real threat to you and would kill you. I hesitate to mention them, because I’m more afraid of them than I am any LGBTQ!
            I think it is terrible that the things you describe have happened to you and others. It is not right nor Christian. If I had a Gay son, I would never disown them. I love my children, whatever they’ve done – and they have done some major things that were wrong. And I mean wrong in the sense that it hurt them and those around them. Not wrong strictly in a Christian, moral sense.
            Would it surprise you that I know someone who is Gay that I think very highly of? Do you think I only define a person by “gay” or “not gay”? Do you not think that I view people as more complex and dimensional than that? There are probably things about you that I would like very much. But, if we ever met in person, I would respect that you choose to think and live a certain way. I would avoid these conversations you and I have had. I ask the same respect from you. By the way, when I donate blood, I donate to anyone who could use it. And I am what they call a “universal donor”, meaning that, in any emergency, where the person’s own blood type is not available, mine is the one they use. I do not care who it goes to, as all life is precious, including yours.

          • Retrodude

            As long as you don’t try to control other’s lives or keep them from equality, then NO. You are not judged. Gays are being killed, discriminated against, beaten, disowned, shunned as well, and NO, THE NUMBER OF CHRISTIANS DO NOT SURPASS THE HATE TOWARDS GAYS. Christians have been in power for thousands of years, gays have NOT.

            Gays in other parts of the world face much more dangers than we do here in America- but I don’t live in Uganda or Iran. It’s awful, but I’m focusing here in America. Baby steps. Seems you and I have more in common than we thought. And when I speak ill of Christians- I am speaking of the judgmental, hateful Christians who are hellbent on preventing equality for gays. Those who protest gay events, those who disown their gay kids, those who donate money to horrid anti-gay laws in Uganda. Of course not all Christians are like that- many in my family are very Christian, yet have no problem whatsoever with me or my partner of 19 years. I am talking about the EXTREMISTS- which unfortunately can be found in every group, even the gays. I don’t want to control anybody’s mind- all I want is to be able to marry my partner and file our taxes like any other couple and visit him in the ER. That is it. That’s my evil, demon-possessed agenda. I apologize if I come off as rude or angry- but it does get real old constantly being judged by the group whom Jesus told NOT to judge. Let’s leave all that up to God, if there is one. I never asked to be gay. I wasn’t recruited, I wasn’t influenced. I just am. That to me is God telling me I’m just the way he made me. My God is apparently different from your God- my God loves us all the created us different and diverse for a reason. I have a niece who, from as early as we can remember, wanted to be a boy. She demanded her hair be short, she wore tennis shoes and played ball and hated dolls and frilly things. Many mistook her for a boy, and we all knew she was a lesbian far before she ever figured it out. She was just being HERSELF- the way she was supposed to be. Obviously, she was born with more male DNA than female- so how can that be against God? That little girl didn’t know what she was doing- she was trying to be something she wasn’t- she was 4 years old! And now she’s happily partnered with her girlfriend and lovingly raising their kids. Happy as a clam. Sorry, but to me, that is perfectly natural. She is the way God intended her to be. Same with me.

          • Rebecca Behrent

            Well, we must face that you and I will always disagree on some points. But that IS the point – in this country, that is what freedom is all about. I abhor the Ku Klux Klan and believe they are definitely not Christian in their thinking or behavior. Yet I support their right to free speech, to hold gatherings, etc. – as long as they do not interfere in any forceful way in the rights of others to speak freely and live their lives according to their beliefs. And that is all I have been trying to say. But I’ve also got to be honest when I say that there are many LGBTQs out there insisting that others be forced to agree and to engage in supporting and/or celebrating their lifestyle, against their own religious beliefs and conscience. Yes – you should be able to go to any cake baker and buy any generic cake like anyone else! But when you force someone to create something they do not want to create, tell me why that is fair, particularly when they can go to many places that would be more than willing to create what they want. Let’s pretend you’re an artist (maybe you are) and I came to you and insisted you paint a picture of Jesus and you didn’t want to. What if the law said you had to? Would you think that was fair? Or should you be free to decide what you want to paint or not paint? No one said anything when someone went to a cake baker and asked them to put the name “Hitler” on the cake and the baker declined. He had the freedom to do so in that case, but not the freedom to decline baking a same-sex wedding cake. Can you give me good reason why that should be? I’m not trying to be hostile here – but can you see what a complex thing our rights here in America are, and how easy it is for both sides to get into drawing lines and putting restrictions on each other? What I am pushing for is the most freedom to be had for all without stepping on each other’s toes regardless of how we might think about each other’s viewpoints and beliefs. It is a terribly hard thing for all of us. It is why our country seems to be in upheaval so much of the time – because we truly ARE a diverse country, and balancing all of the different races, religions, lifestyles, politics, etc. is a horrendously difficult job! Instead of focusing on hating each other, we need to focus on what provides the most liberty for all at the least expense. Hopefully we can at least agree on that. And don’t apologize for your anger – I understand. I know that in writing, at least, I think I come off very blunt and very cold at times without at all meaning to. I am probably one of the most honest people you will ever meet, however. I’m honest because I believe it to be the loving way to be. I warn people who come to me for an answer that I will give them my honest answer. And yes, even with that warning, I’ve lost people who are offended when I give them my answer. Bottom line – my belief is that God loves you, you are precious to him, and he does not want to lose you. That’s the most loving thing I believe I could say to you. I hope you understand.

          • Retrodude

            Everything you are accusing the LGBTQ community of doing- Christians also do the same exact thing- tell us how to think, how to behave, what is right and wrong, etc. We aren’t forcing ANYONE to engage in or celebrate our lifestyle- nobody is forced to a gay wedding against their will, nor is anybody forced to celebrate it, if you don’t choose. I’ve had Christianity shoved down my throat since I was a child- I have yet to see anybody shoving homosexuality down anyone’s throat. Like I’ve said countless times- all I ask is to be treated with respect and dignity. As for any bakery- you can bake whatever cakes you like. I’m not asking EVERY bakery to accomodate a gay wedding- nobody is. Although it’s blatant discrimination if you don’t. Imagine if a baker refused to bake a cake for a black or inter-racial couple- it would be called discrimination. I mean, with your way of thinking= let’s just go back to the 50′s, when we had segregated water fountains and swimming pools- all that was done in the name of Christianity as well, you know. Where does it end? Where do we draw the line? Religious belief is opening a dangerous door- soon, any business can claim “religious beliefs” and refuse to do anything. Where do we draw the line? Religion has NO place whatsoever in our laws- that is not what America was founded on. We left England to set up a free country, with FREEDOM OF RELIGION. Our founding fathers were NOT religious per se- and I’ve had countless Christians tell me they absolutely WOULD love if Christianity became the law of the land and ruled America with it. We might as well have just stayed in England.

          • Rebecca Behrent

            I am happy that I think you and I have come to a point where we can have an interesting discussion about these things, and maybe learn some things in the process on both sides. I want you to know I never meant to hurt you in any way with my comments, and I apologize if I have. I still know that my writing may come across as blunt, but it is not meant to hurt you. I commend you for respecting the rights of others. Let’s go back to the 50′s and before, and discover the differences and definitions concerning “discrimination”. Blacks were UNIVERSALLY discriminated against, and not just from a religious direction. By universal discrimination, I mean they had few or no places to go for services and products, and whites from ALL walks of life felt free to discriminate against them. Let’s remember there didn’t have to be ANY basis for discriminating against them, religious or otherwise. Simply being Black was reason enough! I’m sure there were many atheists who practiced discrimination against them. And let me remind you, THERE IS NO BASIS IN THE BIBLE FOR ANY DISCRIMINATION BASED ON RACE.
            Refusing to provide a PARTICULAR product or service based upon doctrine and scripture of someone’s faith is a different matter entirely. I would not call it “discrimination” in the same sense. And it is not exclusive to denying homosexuals a particular product or service. For example, there are Catholic churches who will not marry a couple of differing religions. That is not “discrimination” – it is obeying their Catholic doctrine, faith and their God. When a church kicks out an adulterous pastor, that is not “discrimination” against adulterers, that is following the Word of God and being obedient to God. (I know of a church that did EXACTLY this). When a church will not marry two homosexuals, it is not because they are “discriminating” against them, but because they are, once again, adhering to scripture and being obedient to God. I understand your fears, (like I hope you understand mine) that businesses, schools, etc. may use religion as a cloak to hide behind in order to deliberately discriminate against homosexuals. Have you seen any case whatsoever where that has happened, either before or after the Civil Rights Movement? I agree that it could, but I would think a business or school that would deliberately and disingenuously enter into such a ploy would be extremely stupid. In the first place, if they aren’t believers or religious in any true sense of the word, why would they deliberately alienate an entire group of people who have wealth beyond that of the average worker (particularly if they are a business?) Look it up – the average income of homosexuals exceeds that of the average income of heterosexuals. Secondly, they would have to exercise a great amount of time and expense to keep up the religious facade. All just to keep homosexuals out? And I wonder how the courts would look on such a blatant facade. Granted, Blacks were kept out for no good basis. But let us remember that back then, as a whole, Blacks were poor. Businesses were doing quite well without them. This is NOT a hostile comment against Blacks, just the truth. It would be a foolish business that has no real basis for religious “discrimination” to exclude a group that has the wealth and power that LGBTQs have while risking the scrutiny of the law regarding such fraud.

          • Seb Crawford

            I too apologise for appearing to stereo type! I guess I share the Same opinions of Retrodude. It hurts so deeply when ‘Christians’ I don’t mean genuine ones like you I mean extremists and don’t mean to label you as the same! I have amazing Christian friends who understand the command to Love their neighbour as themselves and Love me for who I am. Can you imagine never choosing to be something and then condemned by an institution for being something you never chose to be. Do you know how awful this is? How upsetting? Unless you have been trough being gay then you can’t possibly understand.

          • Rebecca Behrent

            NO, I cannot understand your struggles any more than you might understand mine Perhaps my photo is deceiving – perhaps I look like someone who’s never had any struggles and finds life a bowl of cherries. You’d be very mistaken. I’ve had some very serious things happen in my life. Most people do. But being a Christian means following God’s word in all things. And sometimes you pay the price.

          • Seb Crawford

            You also have Christians insisting that we should conform to your beliefs. Some of your statements are double standard. I’m going to give up on this as I personally feel this debate is fruitless, unhelpful and not loving at all and I’m sorry I participated in it in the first place. It is not the way to go. Bye and take care all of you, I wish you all the very best!

          • Seb Crawford

            What about the liberty of Gay people? We don’t all believ the Bibles Values! What makes your rights more important than the rights of Gay people? If there weren’t gays the world may very well be an over populated place. Do you know what I don’t even know why I’m wasting my time.

          • Seb Crawford

            It’s your hatred that is causing people to be murdered and beaten in the name if self righteousness. And this is why we gays bring it to the forefront! We’re tired of being mirderws and beaten and oppressed by archaic laws!

          • Seb Crawford

            Christians live in a state of dealing with they’re cognitive dissonance! Rather than accept something isn’t right about Christianity and their precious cherry picked beliefs they choose to fight the world which is of course incredibly loving! For me this is a complete poor mental state indeed! Akin to mental illness quite frankly! Guess what, even intelligent highly educated and prominent people are prone to mental problems and delusions! Doesn’t mean they’re views whilst deluded are right!

          • Seb Crawford

            At least people with recognised mental health problems seek professional intervention!

          • Retrodude

            It is often argued that homosexuality or bisexuality are not normal, or not natural, and that they have no place on this Earth. This, however, is just a misconception based on insufficient information or indoctrination.

            In some ways we could argue that since it happens at all, that it is natural. Unless we assume there is some unnatural external force teaching or manipulating some of us, seemingly at random, that could change what we were sexually attracted to. Of course some people claim this to be the case; claiming the cause is the media or the devil, and unfortunately some naturally homosexual people believe that too, living a life in denial, or attending some conversion therapy in an attempt to ‘be normal’.

            However, the truth is that homosexuality is, and has been for a very long time, natural, while the definition of normal varies from person to person, being normal does not suggest being special or unique, and could even be used as a derogatory description.

            Being gay or bisexual should not be considered as immoral or criminal by itself, especially when considering the statistics of hate crimes, often violent, due to sexual-orientation bias.

            The FBI 2011 hate crime statistics reports that there were 1,572 victims targetted due to sexual-orientation bias. According to the US Department of Justice a quarter of a million Americans are victims of hate crimes each year and over half are not reported to law enforcement. Based on the FBI hate crime statistics showing that 20.8% of hate crimes are of a sexual-orientation bias, we could then estimate the true number of sexual-orientation hate crimes to be 52,000 each year, and these crimes are rising annually.

            Gary Gates of the Williams Institute reported in 2011 that an estimated 3.5% of adults in the United States identify as being gay, lesbian or bisexual, he also states that nearly 25.6 million Americans (11% of the population) acknowledge at least some same-sex sexual attraction. At what level does it become accepted as being normal?

            A study at Boise State University found that in a group of heterosexual women, 60% were physically interested in other women, 45% made out with a woman in the past, and 50% had fantasies about the same sex. LiveScience reports that women may be more “hetero-flexible” or be primarily attracted to men with some same-sex attraction. The hypothesis, published in the journalEvolutionary Psychology, theorises that this allows women to raise their children with other women, for various reasons. Some people are claiming this shows that most women are largely bisexual, with a preference.

            Let’s compare this to the estimated 10% that are left-handed, or the 10% of people with dyslexia, and ask ourselves again, “what is normal?”

            More than 1,500 different animal species, including chimpanzees, dolphins and apes engage in homosexual and bisexual acts.

            “We’re talking about everything from mammals to crabs and worms. The actual number is of course much higher. Among some animals homosexual behaviour is rare, some having sex with the same gender only a part of their life, while other animals, such as the dwarf chimpanzee, homosexuality is practiced throughout their lives.” – Petter Boeckman

            If we were also to argue that the sole natural purpose of sex is to reproduce, then are masturbation and oral sex also unnatural? Should we demonize condom use just as much? We could also argue, using another theory, that homosexuality and asexuality are natural methods of population control.

            Interestingly, in June, Exodus International, one of the U.S.’s foremost “gay conversion therapy” groups publicly announced they are quitting the gay conversion business, calling the practice “harmful”.

            “I am sorry for the pain and hurt many of you have experienced. I am sorry that some of you spent years working through the shame and guilt you felt when your attractions didn’t change. I am sorry we promoted sexual orientation change efforts and reparative theories about sexual orientation that stigmatized parents. I am sorry that there were times I didn’t stand up to people publicly ‘on my side’ who called you names like sodomite — or worse. I am sorry that I, knowing some of you so well, failed to share publicly that the gay and lesbian people I know were every bit as capable of being amazing parents as the straight people that I know.” – Exodus president Alan Chambers

            If you really feel strongly that god will judge them, while you’re entitled to your beliefs, I’m sure we (of all sexualities) would all appreciate you leaving that judgement to god.

            And if you’re really going to complain about not being natural, perhaps you should stop watching TV, driving cars and go back to making fire with wood, if you can find any.

            After all, you wouldn’t be reading this if it wasn’t for the genius mathematician, Alan Turing, who created one of the first computers and helped us to win World War II. For engaging in homosexual acts he was made to take female hormones (chemical castration), which resulted in him growing breasts as a side effect. He committed suicide at the age of 42.

            While I understand there is a natural fear of that which is different, it’s the 21st century, so instead of complaining about how others live, let’s focus on how we live and what we can change to make our lives better.

          • Rebecca Behrent

            I must reiterate that I am not for abusing homosexuals by taking their basic human rights away. You have a right to employment, food, shelter, clothing, housing, etc. – the same basic rights as any human being. You have Constitutional rights in America, and the right to your basic, human dignity. That being said, I also have rights – one of which is the very highly esteemed Constitutional right to my religious faith and free practice of my faith. This is where the LGBTQ’s seem to have a problem. What I see is a group which is NOT content with the laws which have been passed in their favor. What I see are activists who will NOT be content until they can come right into our churches and ENFORCE what we can and can’t preach from our own pulpits, what we can and cannot say (via “hate speech” laws) and finally, what we can and cannot THINK via “hate speech” laws which will lead to censorship of words from the Bible itself. When people do not receive certain information because of CONTROL and CENSORSHIP of that information, only ONE SIDE of an issue is allowed to be presented, and all comparison between varying ideas is SHUT DOWN, thus preventing exercise of any thinking but ONE thinking. This is what many Christians see LGBTQs trying to accomplish – the complete destruction of people’s rights to believe and think what they will! May I remind you, that when you attempt to do this to others, eventually it will come back to bite you.

          • Retrodude

            ARE YOU TRULY THIS STUPID? Honey, you can believe whatever you want! Churches can preach whatever they want! Nobody is saying you can’t! HOWEVER- when those beliefs seep into our LAWS, that is UN-AMERICAN. God, you people are so ignorant! Religious beliefs has NO place in our laws whatsoever, and how can you even think that YOUR beliefs trump others and we need to moralize based on YOUR beliefs? That is the problem with religion- everybody thinks they are right, and everybody else is wrong. WE are not trying to change your beliefs. But, gays and lesbians DO NOT have the same rights as everybody else. We CAN lose our jobs for being gay. We CANNOT visit our loved ones or partners in the ER. We cannot marry our partners- why? BECAUSE OF RELIGIOUS FREAKS LIKE YOU WHO THINK YOUR BELIEFS TRUMP EVERYBODY ELSE’S. CAN YOU NOT GRASP THAT? This is America, sweetie. You can think whatever the hell you want- nobody is trying to take that from you. However, those beliefs DO NOT belong in our government, and since Republicans have joined forces with the Religious Right, YOU guys are trying to do the same thing England was doing when we left there to form a country WITH FREEDOM OF RELIGION. Obviously you do not get it whatsoever, and I am tired of arguing with you on this. AND HOW IN THE FUCK IS ME BEING GAY INFRINGING ON YOUR GODDAMN RIGHTS? Such arrogant people you are! Once again, it’s all about YOUR beliefs, and screw everybody else’s! NOW DO NOT REPLY TO ME AGAIN, YOU IGNORANT BIBLE-THUMPER. There is no such thing as sin, no such things as demons, or Satan, or talking snakes or fish that swallow up men and they live to tell about it. You are living in medieval times mentally- come to the present, sweetie. Have all the hateful thoughts you want- just don’t use those thoughts to keep US from having the same rights promised to us as Americans. Good God you people are beyond reason. REPLY TO ME AGAIN AND WILL REPORT YOUR SORRY ASS. Now go say a prayer or burn some books or something.

          • Seb Crawford

            By expressing your opinion, you are perpetuating the killing and beating! You are accountable for what you inform others and if what you tell them instigates a feeling of hate that leads to someone being Killed or committing suicide then you are partly responsible for that. If Christians said nothing and just focused on God as God asked then this world wouldn’t be in such a hate filled mess. Other people don’t learn to kill others without opinions like yours giving them the idea!

          • Rebecca Behrent

            I’m not accountable for another’s thoughts and actions, only my own. Otherwise, we should all become mute because we can ALL blame someone else for causing us to act in certain ways! What a cop-out! Either we live in a free society where you and I and everyone else is entitled to our free speech and individual opinions, or we can live under an every-increasingly oppressive society! Right now, it sounds like you simply want to become the oppressor! I would expect better from someone who has felt oppressed themselves! And I do think that there have certainly been wrongs done to LGBTQs – so why would you want to be just as wrong as those who have done wrong to you?

          • Seb Crawford

            To believe the Bible is to ignore the mass reality around us which Christians do very well! Also these hate crimes and murders are caused by a direct result of Christians perpetuating this nonsense. Which seems more wrong? Loving another man or spouting hate that initiates murder and violence?

          • Seb Crawford

            The vagina is also constructed for waste elimination? Why do men have a G spot accessibly by anal pertrusion? God can have more than one use for the same thing, like speaking and eating with the mouth. Sex and peeing with the vagina.

          • Rebecca Behrent

            Retrodude is disingenuous. The homosexual community likes to point to the animal kingdom for justification of their behavior when convenient, but then says don’t put them on the same level as bestiality! Where in the animal kingdom do we find any animals of the same sex actually COMPLETING copulation? Mankind is above the animal kingdom, (per the Bible) not the SAME as animals. Animals act on instinct and have no moral compass. Humans are supposed to act on intellect and behave according to a (higher) moral code.

          • Seb Crawford

            What rubbish! God created the animal kingdom and if he hated it so much the why are hundreds do animals engaging in same sex relations? He could have designed them not too. But he didn’t.

          • KPC

            I have actually seen male dogs mount other males dogs as well as humans legs…..so….your point?

          • David Idoru

            KPC, did you see the dogs mating or mounting? These are two different words that should not confuse you. Anyhow, the point is that mating between male dogs is abnormal and information may not be accepted by others as true information.

            Abnormal or normal, at times things are right depending on people’s perception.

          • Seb Crawford

            I do see it essential when it causes people to commit suicide, to be killed, oppressed, beaten because people read the Bible out of context and when they forcefully and vehemently live contrary to the bible they profess as a result in order to push an agenda onto Gay people yes! I do feel it is necessary. You provide no proof that your Bible is genuinely of The God who created the earth!

          • KPC

            While I am not offended by your generalization of Christians. I would like to tell you that I am a Christian, my parents are Christian, my husband is Christian. And my entire life I was raised to LOVE. I never once had a single thought in my mind that homosexuality was a sin. My heart could not comprehend that a man loving another man was an abomination as so many fundamentalist Christians preach. While Ms. Rebecca may be full of hate, please know that there are so many people in the world who do not see a different between your love and the love I share with my husband. God bless you and your partner.

          • Retrodude

            Thank you so much! People like you give me hope! I’m not against Christians – just the extreme ones.

          • Rebecca Behrent

            I suggest that the LOVE you talk about isn’t love at all, because it lacks TRUTH. You cannot have love without truth. The two go hand-in-hand. If you don’t warn someone of the sin they are involved in, but let them continue in it, perhaps to their damnation, how can you call that Love? The Bible clearly talks about sin and the need for repentance. It clearly outlines what sin is. For you to overlook the idea of sin and what it does to the relationship between a person and God is NOT A LOVING THING TO DO AT ALL!

          • Seb Crawford

            What convinces you that the Bible is the word of God?

          • Rebecca Behrent

            There are obviously a number of the gay community on here voting down my posts, thus they keep disappearing. I posted facts from the Center for Disease Control (CDC) regarding the grim statistics of disease related to the homosexual lifestyle. I will not attempt to re-post, but suggest you go to the CDC website and look up the statistics for yourself. Since there appear to be many on here trying to censor the TRUTH, this will be my last post. You’ve shut your eyes and ears to the truth, and I pity you.

          • Retrodude

            Darling, ANY human is susceptible to any disease. Obviously, safe sex is important, but HIV is most prevailant among African-American women now. Diseases don’t seek out gays. I’m gay- I have looked at the statistics, honey. I know what I’m up against. YOU are the one who has shut your eyes and ears. YOU are arrogant one here- just assuming that YOU are the right one. YOU live your life cherry-picking passages from a damn ancient book written thousands of years ago by MEN WHO DID NOT UNDERSTAND THE WAY OF LIFE WE HAVE TODAY. I pity fools like YOU who are so brain-washed by your Church you cannot possibly see reason and truth. What a crappy way to live life, slave to a silly book. Wow. People like you are dangerous and disturbed. Yes, many are downvoting your idiotic comments. Why? BECAUSE YOU ARE BEHIND THE TIMES. We evolve and progress as we go through life. You apparently don’t know how to do that.

          • Rebecca Behrent

            There are conditions and diseases resulting DIRECTLY from the practices of same-sex couples. But other immoral, (yet straight), sexual behaviors also result in disease and death for those groups of people.
            As to being “behind the times” God is called I AM for a reason. He is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. Their is no “modern time” for God. The Bible also says there is nothing new under the sun. You and many like you think you are “progressive and modern” while at the same time pointing to ancient times and saying, “see, they did it back then”. No – there is nothing new under the sun. You simply want a return to the days of Noah and Sodom and Gomorrah in which sins (including homosexuality) were practiced and accepted with abandon! All sin from times past is the same sin we see being committed today. All those who condemned it then were called names and persecuted back then as they are today. No, my friend. There is no “modern” when it comes to the sin in the world. It’s the same old thing.

          • Seb Crawford

            What makes you so sure that this Bible you have as an idol is the word of God? Jesus is the way the truth and the life, not the Bible. Jesus being a real being who exists in spirit. I appreciate the accounts delivering the message of a Jesus, but we’re asked to come to him. Not the church.

          • KPC

            Actually, I am voting down your posts…and I am not part of the Gay Community….just a straight human being who follows Christ.

        • Seb Crawford

          How can you call it love when these views insight people to murder and beat! Perpetuating theses beliefs amplifies the hate!

          • Rebecca Behrent

            There are many things out there that can cause a person to think about or actually commit suicide. There are those I know about, who were connected to me through a friend, a relative, an associate, a classmate, etc. who have committed suicide. There are at least ten suicides I know of, none of them having to do with sexual preference or practices. There are many reasons people are hated for who they are. There are certainly those who hate me for who I am. Don’t you think it has hurt my feelings to be called the names I’ve been called here? More than that, most people here do not seem to understand what I’m really trying to say! I am really talking about what real freedom means in this country! A person has to find the strength within themselves, or seek help to find the strength within themselves, to be who they are and not allow someone’s viewpoint to bring them to a point that they commit suicide. If we are going to blame others, then there will be no end of accusing others’ VIEWPOINTS as a cause of someone’s suicide. Shall we then come to the point we seem to be coming to now – where we gradually add to a list of “hate speech” that grows longer and longer over time, which will eventually include religious and political speech that is banned? You have got to come to the point where you simply IGNORE those whose viewpoints you don’t like. I’ve tried to state this in my posts above in one form or another. And as far as your rights, I don’t know what you’re complaining about – haven’t you been winning the “rights” you feel should be yours? Or must you come into all churches who disagree with you and bend them to your will as well? Once you cross that boundary, I see the day when NO ONE will have any freedom of any sort – not even those who do the forcing. This is what I’ve been trying to tell you and everyone here when all is said and done.

          • Seb Crawford

            I’m sorry you feel like this Rebecca. I would never dream of coming into a Church to impose my views and I wish we lived in a world where no one was oppressed for what they believe. That is wrong. But here we are in an open forum. I see Gay people oppressed and tortured for the last 2000 years, predominantly caused by the religious views of others. (I know Christians get called horrible names but then telling someone they are so worthless and going to hell is hardly in sighting people not to. I appreciate you personally don’t necessarily do this, but many ‘Christians’ do).

          • Rebecca Behrent

            I think you meant to use the word “inciting”. Although there are Catholics in my family, I was not raised in the Catholic church but was raised in a Protestant church, which I later departed from. I lost my faith for a while, but was born again over fifteen years ago. I am still looking for a truly Bible-based church, which I find difficult today as so many churches are departing from Biblical teaching, “For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions…” – 2 Timothy 4:3. But for the moment, I digress. My point in telling you about the Catholic church is that I recently saw a video which revealed a lot about the Catholic church I’d never known, not just about the Crusades but about the Catholic church in general. This includes the startling fact that they killed many Christians! Also, the Catholic church at the time of Hitler was very anti-Semitic and approved of what Hitler was doing to the Jews (at least the church leaders at the time did). My point in telling you this is that you’ve got to be very careful when someone tells you they are “Christian”, whether it be an individual telling you that, or a particular church. I also urge you to base your beliefs on the Bible rather than what this or that scholar tells you, even if you do disagree with one or more parts of the Bible. We are headed into times in which great deception will abound. Part of that deception is that men will change what the Bible says, and many will believe them because they are “scholars”! Deception! I urge you to really study the book of Revelation to gain greater understanding. It reads like today’s headlines! See what is happening with Israel, for example! God said he “put a hook in the jaw” of all nations surrounding Israel to make war with her, and the odds of Israel surviving will look impossible to the world, until God steps in (after Jerusalem is taken). I would say we’re seeing the beginnings of that happening. Yes, I know there have been wars before, but if you pay attention to the way things are lining up, and read the signs of the end of the age that are plainly given in the Bible, we are seeing Biblical prophecy come true right before our eyes like I’ve never seen before! It is absolutely fascinating if you really make a study of it!
            Yes, I know that homosexuals have been treated as you say. So have true Christians through all the ages, and will be persecuted even more so as the end times draw closer. That is why I am saying to you that many homosexuals are wrong when they want to pass laws that will silence or even do away with Christian belief (and believers) altogether. Do you really want to become the people you have despised? By that I mean, do you want to become part of a group that persecutes another group, the way other groups persecuted you? Do two wrongs make a right? Or should we find that common ground that preserves the most freedom for all? Remember, God himself believed in freedom, or he wouldn’t have created beings with the freedom to choose to believe what they will and to behave as they wish. And when I tell you things that are in the Bible – that’s just it. It is not me speaking – it is the Word written in the Bible! It is not hate to simply tell you what is written in the Bible. Now it’s up to YOU just as it is for anyone, to decide what you’ll believe and how you’ll live. So Christians must be allowed to do the same. This is true freedom.

        • KPC

          Oh my goodness….I cannot even control the sadness and pity I feel for you when I read your ignorant words. So STD’s don’t apply to hetero couples? A straight person never sexually contracted AIDS, EVER?! I hope someday you will truly feels Christ’s love and forgive yourself for your hate towards your neighbor.

    • Seb Crawford

      lol the apostle Paul! The 13th self professed Apostle! Funny the book of revelation confirms 12 gates representing the 12 apostles? No room for Paul the self professed apostle!? Jesus warned about heading those who claim Jesus in the desert! This is exactly what Paul did. There is no account of any witness other than his sidekick Luke who clarifies Paul’s conversion. Also if you read very carefully and seek God wholeheartedly to show you theatrics you will see that Paul often completely contradicts Jesus! Guess who I’m gonna follow? Not Paul that’s for sure. Jesus is the way the truth and the life. Not Paul! (Who never met Jesus, or learned from the original 12 apostles). Yet you’ll readily reject Joseph Smith character of the LDS who’s conversion story is similar

  • older-woman

    I believe that what Jesus taught are the ways to have a health, joyful society of people. I also believe that it is an uneducated mind that does not take into account the time period when a writer writes…how he or she frames the world cannot escape the cultural norms and values of the time of the writer. That said, I believe Jesus wants us to love all people…that’s best for the planet. It’s best for humans emotionally and physically. But I also believe that sex that uses body parts in ways they were not meant to be used results in a significantly greater opportunity for disease, which is not good for society’s happiness and joyfulness. I do believe that children should have an opportunity to have the influence of mother and father and that relationship, an opportunity denied them in a homosexual so-called marriage I do not believe men can mate with men or women with women but I do believe that there are some people developed abnormally in the womb — but that we don’t need to remake society because of it. Honor their love but that does not mean we toss out the Bible or toss out marriage.

  • James

    It is sad to hear a Christian preach against what the Lord clearly says to us in the Bible. While those of us who have studied the Bible in search of answer to the question of whether or not homosexuality is a sin are familiar with the verse Leviticus 20:13 “If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.” it is commonly believed that the laws made in the old testament do not apply to Christians and that these laws became obsolete when Jesus came. But let me ask you this: From the diction of this verse, does it appear that God’s attitude towards homosexuality is positive? Not at all! While we shouldn’t kill homosexuals because we were all sinners at one point and we are to show others the same love and mercy as the Lord showed us, this doesn’t mean we as Christians should sit back and allow this sin to happen. If you still are not convinced that the Bible is clear that homosexuality is wrong, read this quote I read in an article about this matter.

    Over the years I have received some bizarre reasons from the gay community regarding why they don’t think homosexuality is a sin. Here is an example I received this week from a self-professed lesbian:

    “Also, don’t you find it interesting that when Jesus walked the earth, he never once brought up the subject? If it was such a sin, it would be one of the Ten Commandments, don’t you think?”

    No, I don’t think so at all. Lev. 20:13 does not need to be one of the Ten Commandments before it has any jurisdiction over Christian Believers.

    Jesus did not address child-molestation either; neither is it one of the Ten Commandments. Neither did Jesus address drug abuse, nor pornography, smoking, spousal abuse, or torture. Does this fact therefore condone such sins and atrocities? Are we to assume therefore that none of these are wrong or sinful? I hope we are not foolish enough to believe that if something is not mentioned in the Bible, then it shouldn’t be considered a sin.

    This is an excellent point. Christians need to stop taking the Bible out of context in order to push the point they wish to make. If one honestly believes they are right in their opinion, then they should be open to the truth for it should only justify them, right?

    What about this verse?

    “Be not deceived, neither …abusers of themselves with mankind [Gk: arsenokoites-sodomites/male bed partners/male-liers] SHALL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD” (I Cor. 6:9-10).

    It is clear the Lord has no tolerance when it comes to homosexuality. I am not preaching hate, I am preaching the truth. I am only preaching hate to those who hate the truth.

    • Bod Nobody

      Actually, there is something I am confused. Why God didn’t mentioned lesbians? Is it because the Bible is manmade and in these authors’s time woman were afraid from society to show their true sexual tendency? Perhaps, authors forgot and saw lesbians redundant to write because there were no obvious gay women? To wrap up, is there any explanation why God just mentioned this sin just for men? – written by a muslim

      • Tim Loyal

        Actually they did say about lesbians. men went after the unatural and women went after the unatural.Romans 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their
        women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: thats a direct verse related to lesbians and the unatural.

        • R.A.

          Unnatural for Paul would include anal sex. To conclude that the unnatural act must be lesbianism based on this vague wording inserts a burden on the text, which we as interpreters, who are trying to rightly divide the word, mustn’t do. In fact, anal sex also fits the context of the next verse when Paul says men are likewise abandoning the natural use of a woman, which would have been passive, vaginal intercourse. So I agree with Bod that the Bible is silent on lesbianism.

          • Seb Crawford

            Absolutely! People need to wholeheartedly seek God for the truth! Only he knows it! In a universe where God exists everywhere, I just don’t believe it is condensed into one man made account of him! (The Bible). God didn’t command to just simply believe a book or a preacher!? He asked us to seek him personally with all our heart and that the truth would set us free

        • Seb Crawford

          If these people were Born straight then yes same sex relations would indeed be unnatural to them!

          • Guest #2468

            Except… this is an imperfect world. Aka: we all struggle with sin whether we were “born with it” or not.

      • tracie

        Lesbians are homosexuals, The word lesbian hadn’t been thought of at that time. Read and study your Bible, remember Adam and Eve, this’s how he wanted it to be man and woman, We sometimes have to change and it’s hard but so necessary, we are all faced with demons around us and a lot of times he be in us giving you all those feelings that feel so right when it’s totally against God’s word, Do what God want not Satan. Realize that you need God’s deliverance, you have been decieved by the enemy to even think God doesn’t apply homosexuals to women as he do men. I would ask God for forgiveness and never turn my back on him again

        • Bod Nobody

          I never saw the word ”homosexual” in The Bible. It seems, your God is just a bit ignorant. – written by a muslim

          • ash

            1 Corinthians 6:9-10 – “Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.” (NIV)

          • Philip Lee

            If you read the King James version, which is often considered the closest translation to what was actually written in the original script, the word “homosexual” does not appear…That was added by people like yourself, not God.

          • Wayne McIntosh

            The word itself does not appear but the same meaning applies!

          • Chris

            Funny how many other translations of that exact passage have zero mention of homosexuality.

            9 Know
            ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God? Be
            not deceived: Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor
            the effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

            10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners shall inherit the Kingdom of God. (KJ21)

            9 Or
            know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?
            Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor
            effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with men,

            10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. (ASV)

            The original greek text used two words, “arsenokoites” and “Malakos”

            arsenokoites is a word that was pretty much never used outside of the Bible, and such is considered to be a hapax legomenon. Its a combination of the word arsen, or “man” and koites, “bed”. The literal translation of the word is ‘manbed’. The earliest translations of this greek text was “masculorum concubitoribus”, which means, effectively, ‘pimping’. The other translation? Knabenschänder, which means pedophilia. Arsekoites as ‘homosexuality’ is a modern translation, and ignorant of the historical meaning of the passage. Arsekoites appears elsewhere in the Bible as well, but strangely it seems to refer to some sort of economic sin, being associated with taking advantage of others labor. Pimping seems to the strongest argument for the actual meaning of this word, given it’s only other appearances.

            Malakos means “soft” or “squishy”, effeminate. It is a term that means, “to be weak in character”, as opposed to the modern definition of effeminacy. Laziness, degeneracy, decadence, lack of courage, all things once ascribed to the ‘weaker’ female gender. It was the inability to be male, and has nothing to do with ‘male prostitution’, as your translation seems to demand.

          • Sams_1

            You are trifling children He said that a man to lie with a man. Geniuses here!! You want a chalk drawing so you can get by

          • Rebecca Behrent

            Nevertheless, “homosexual” and “homosexuality” are clearly defined in the Bible and it is an “abomination” to God. Here are several Bible passages that ought to make it pretty clear:

            “For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. Their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error” (Rom. 1:26–27).

            “Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor sexual perverts, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God” (1 Cor. 6:9–10).

            “Now we know that the law is good, if any one uses it lawfully, understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, immoral persons, sodomites, kidnappers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine” (1 Tim. 1:8–10).

            “Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise acted immorally and indulged in unnatural lust, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire” (Jude 7).

            But God’s displeasure with acting out on homosexuality is depicted as early as Genesis 19 in the Old Testament. Also see Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13.

          • Retrodude

            Darling, the Bible also says it’s okay to own slaves, and you can sell your wife and daughter as slaves. Such a loving, moral book.

          • Rebecca Behrent

            “Slave” as defined during those times was quite a different thing than what we know about slavery in America. Please scroll down and read Mark’s comment, (responding to a comment by David L. Moore) part of which I quote here, but you can also find further clarification regarding the slavery written about in the Bible in various websites on the internet.

            “…The condemnation “du’jour” of the Bible is that it “promotes slavery”. However, as you said, that slavery was not racially based, was not for life (unless the slave wanted to remain), and slaves were not de facto less than human. Slavery was a place in the economic system that allowed people who had lost everything to pay their debts. A slave could work/buy his way out. And a slave did have rights. And, while we’re speaking of OT practices, everyone forgets that a Year of Jubilee was commanded, and on that year the slaves had to all be set free! They could go back to their own lands and start again. The slavery in America was nothing like that. We kidnapped/bought people from another country where they were doing us no harm nor warring with us, we forced them here in the most inhuman conditions possible, then we declared that they weren’t quite human, they weren’t “like us”. So the whole slavery argument against the Bible depends wholly on ignorance. Just as using the Bible to support homosexuality is.”

          • Retrodude

            The same exact thing can be said about homosexuality in the Bible. And using the Bible to NOT support homosexuality is ludicrous. President Barack Obama’s support of same-sex marriage, like blood in the water, has conservative sharks circling for a kill. In a nation that touts separation of religion and government, religious-based arguments command this battle. Lurking beneath anti-gay forays, you inevitably find religion and, above all, the Bible.

            We now face religious jingoism, the imposition of personal beliefs on the whole pluralistic society. Worse still, these beliefs are irrational, just a fiction of blind conviction. Nowhere does the Bible actually oppose homosexuality.

            In the past 60 years, we have learned more about sex, by far, than in preceding millennia. Is it likely that an ancient people, who thought the male was the basic biological model and the world flat, understood homosexuality as we do today? Could they have even addressed the questions about homosexuality that we grapple with today? Of course not.

            Hard evidence supports this commonsensical expectation. Taken on its own terms, read in the original languages, placed back into its historical context, the Bible is ho-hum on homosexuality, unless – as with heterosexuality – injustice and abuse are involved.

            That, in fact, was the case among the Sodomites (Genesis 19), whose experience is frequently cited by modern anti-gay critics. The Sodomites wanted to rape the visitors whom Lot, the one just man in the city, welcomed in hospitality for the night.

            The Bible itself is lucid on the sin of Sodom: pride, lack of concern for the poor and needy (Ezekiel 16:48-49); hatred of strangers and cruelty to guests (Wisdom 19:13); arrogance (Sirach/Ecclesiaticus 16:8); evildoing, injustice, oppression of the widow and orphan (Isaiah 1:17); adultery (in those days, the use of another man’s property), and lying (Jeremiah 23:12).

            But nowhere are same-sex acts named as the sin of Sodom. That intended gang rape only expressed the greater sin, condemned in the Bible from cover to cover: hatred, injustice, cruelty, lack of concern for others. Hence, Jesus says “Love your neighbor as yourself” (Matthew 19:19; Mark 12:31); and “By this will they know you are my disciples” (John 13:35).

            How inverted these values have become! In the name of Jesus, evangelicals and Catholic bishops make sex the Christian litmus test and are willing to sacrifice the social safety net in return.

            The longest biblical passage on male-male sex is Romans 1:26-27: “Their women exchanged natural intercourse for unnatural, and in the same way also the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one another.”

            The Greek term para physin has been translated unnatural; it should read atypical orunusual. In the technical sense, yes, the Stoic philosophers did use para physin to mean unnatural, but this term also had a widespread popular meaning. It is this latter meaning that informs Paul’s writing. It carries no ethical condemnation.

            Compare the passage on male-male sex to Romans 11:24. There, Paul applies the term para physin to God. God grafted the Gentiles into the Jewish people, a wild branch into a cultivated vine. Not your standard practice! An unusual thing to do — atypical, nothing more. The anti-gay “unnatural” hullabaloo rests on a mistranslation.

            Besides, Paul used two other words to describe male-male sex: dishonorable (1:24, 26) and unseemly (1:27). But for Paul, neither carried ethical weight. In 2 Corinthians 6:8 and 11:21, Paul says that even he was held in dishonor — for preaching Christ. Clearly, these words merely indicate social disrepute, not truly unethical behavior.

            In this passage Paul is referring to the ancient Jewish Law: Leviticus 18:22, the “abomination” of a man’s lying with another man. Paul sees male-male sex as an impurity, a taboo, uncleanness — in other words, “abomination.” Introducing this discussion in 1:24, he says so outright: “God gave them up … to impurity.”

            But Jesus taught lucidly that Jewish requirements for purity — varied cultural traditions — do not matter before God. What matters is purity of heart.

            “It is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a person, but it is what comes out of the mouth that defiles,” reads Matthew 15. “What comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart, and this is what defiles. For out of the heart come evil intentions, murder, adultery, fornication, theft, false witness, slander. These are what defile a person, but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile.”

            Or again, Jesus taught, “Everyone who looks at a women with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart” (Matthew 5:28). Jesus rejected the purity requirements of the Jewish Law.

            In calling it unclean, Paul was not condemning male-male sex. He had terms to express condemnation. Before and after his section on sex, he used truly condemnatory terms: godless, evil, wicked or unjust, not to be done. But he never used ethical terms around that issue of sex.

            As for marriage, again, the Bible is more liberal than we hear today. The Jewish patriarchs had many wives and concubines. David and Jonathan, Ruth and Naomi, and Daniel and the palace master were probably lovers.

            The Bible’s Song of Songs is a paean to romantic love with no mention of children or a married couple. Jesus never mentioned same-sex behaviors, although he did heal the “servant” — pais, a Greek term for male lover — of the Roman Centurion.

            Paul discouraged marriage because he believed the world would soon end. Still, he encouraged people with sexual needs to marry, and he never linked sex and procreation.

            Were God-given reason to prevail, rather than knee-jerk religion, we would not be having a heated debate over gay marriage. “Liberty and justice for all,” marvel at the diversity of creation, welcome for one another: these, alas, are true biblical values.

          • Seb Crawford

            Excellently put! When will people realise all this!? It’s all very well knowing what the bible says in it’s current form but the whole of nature proclaims Gods Glory and diversity! Nothing repulsed me more than bigotry and hatred in a world where Jesus taught only Love! Jesus taught to Love your enemy and pray for them and no way condones; belittling them, taking away their rights, condemning them, killing them, abusing them, making them feel terrible, causing them to commit suicide! These many actions are more repulsive than just being gay.

          • Rebecca Behrent

            Yes, and what is love, as defined in the Biblical sense? John 14:15-24:
            “If you love me, you will keep my commandments. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, 17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you. 18 “I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19 Yet a little while and the world will see me no more, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20 In that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you. 21 Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me. And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him.” 22Judas (not Iscariot) said to him, “Lord, how is it that you will manifest yourself to us, and not to the world?” 23 Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24 Whoever does not love me does not keep my words. And the word that you hear is not mine but the Father’s who sent me.”

            So if you do not believe in the Word (the Bible) how are you going to keep it? Willy-nilly? Whatever pops into your head that you think is right? Now who’s “nuts”?

          • Seb Crawford

            Love is also patient, love is kind…

          • Rebecca Behrent

            That’s why I’m patiently bearing with you and trying to kindly point out what the Bible says.

          • Lawrence

            God loves us all the same he is no respecter of man. That being said Sin is sin to Him so the lair is no different then one who is sexually immoral. Thank you Rebecca for standing up and speakingwthe true word of God. People want to do what they want to do with no consequence so they twist the word of God when it’s plan and simple that even a child could understand it or just claim there is no God. I know this sounds like I hate gay people and will probly get a lot of hate comments but I hate no one I just have to do why my Father tells me and that’s to love EVERYONE but also to speak truth and the gospel.
            -love-

          • Retrodude

            The problem with using the word homosexual in ANY Bible translation is thathomosexual is a recent word. It came into usage in Austria and Germany in the 1860s and began appearing in English language dictionaries around 1900. For the first 1900 years of church history, no one used the wordhomosexual because it did not exist as a word in that time period.

            Obviously, if the word homosexual, with all its modern connotations, did not exist when the Bible was written, it is wise not to use that word when translating the Bible. If God or the human authors of the Bible intended to reference gay partnerships which are unrelated to fertility goddess worship, they could have done so by using ancient Greek or Latin words from that time period.

          • Rebecca Behrent

            “A rose by any other name is still a rose”. Although the specific word “homosexual” may not have existed, the definition surely does, per the passages from the Bible above.

          • Seb Crawford

            There were in fact words in those days that could have been used, but they weren’t so translators with a bias chose homosexual. Look into this please and stop oppressing people who have chosen (from their God given right) not to believe the bible

          • Wayne McIntosh

            No, it says no such thing…you haven’t read and comprehended what you were reading..love how you unbelievers take scripture and twist it to suit your agendas!

          • Seb Crawford

            They were dishonourable passions because those passions were not natural to them as straight people.

          • jeff

            The term homosexual simply did not exist in bible time. The term wasn’t even used until late 1800′s. So this leads to the conclusion that your bible lies.

          • Douglas Yu

            well ur “God” is the same as ours. Islam supposedly uses the Gospel, so please don’t be ignorant. lol

          • GG Laris

            Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. — 1 Corinthians 6:9-10

            We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine. — 1 Timothy 1:9-10

            Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error. — Romans 1:26-27

      • ash

        Romans 1:26-28 ESV / 520 helpful votes

        For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done

        • Seb Crawford

          Wow yet another variant translation that says something completely different from the other translations! Since when did God become the author of confusion? It seems Christianity is VERY confused about many things lol

          • Rebecca Behrent

            Really? Another variant translation? Says basically the same thing as the one posted above by Tim Loyal. But if you want to get nit-picky, go for it. At the heart of it, you’re just trying to justify your behavior and throw out the parts of the Bible you don’t like to fit what you DO like. BTW, there’s also a dire warning in the Bible about taking away and/or adding to the words of the Bible. And there are many people (so-called “scholars”) hard at work trying to do just that today. So you should not be concerned about a church or version of Christianity that doesn’t accept the practice of homosexuality – you should be able to find plenty of watered- down versions of Christianity that will appeal to you. It’s part of the apostasy of the churches prophesied in the true word of the Bible – and we are seeing that come true today as well. So I don’t see what your problem is, when there are so many out there who support your thinking and behavior. Why should what the rest of us think matter so much to you?

          • Dave

            Rebecca, why are you so hell-bent on condemning homosexuals? Why do those few passages in the Bible that you consider “anti-gay” somehow supersede all the other sins? What about Jesus’ commandment to love another? To not condemn your brothers and sisters and to not be judgmental? It seems that those commandments are mentioned 1000 times more in the Holy Book, but somehow it’s more important to focus in on all the gays and lesbians and condemn THEM to hell?

            With all the hatred in the world, people killing one another over the most ridiculous differences, it just seems like focusing in on loving one another would be more fulfilling and would coincide more with the spirit of Jesus.

          • Guest #2468

            I think she’s trying to make the point that homosexuality is a sin just like lying, hating, stealing, gossiping, etc. but “new day christians” say otherwise although it’s clearly mentioned more than once in the Bible.
            And yeah, we are all guilty of sin. & only God is the one to judge. & yes, you can be homosexual because you have free will, but there are consequences so this a warning. & yes, if you’re a homosexual I love you as a person, but I despise the sin. & before you judge me in saying that you don’t know what it’s like to be in a lesbian/gay’s position because you’re a Christian & you were born straight, etc. because I HAVE been bullied for being “gay” which I do NOT have a sexual problem in that regard (But everyone believed I was due to some misunderstands & past experiences of being bullied).
            & as for “…beat down others with the Bible” perhaps people talk about Scriptures because no one actually studies them anymore (people in general). Romans 12:2 (NLT), “Don’t copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think. Then you will learn to know God’s will for you, which is good and pleasing and perfect.” You see, “new day christians” pick apart what they’d prefer. That’s why “christians” being bullies to homosexual people is happening. That & because no one’s perfect/growing up to do/actually study the Scriptures on how to live (1 John 2:6, Galatians 5:19-23).

          • Sarah Lynn Kelley

            Thank you! You posted everything I would liked to have put. As a Christian, I do love homosexuals, and if they wanted to be friends, i would care for them the same way i would a straight friend. But I cant support the sin. This is not to say im better than anyone else, for i have committed my share of sins too.

      • John

        For the record let me clear all this up. Homosexuality is under sexually immoral according to the Bible so every time it mentions being sexually immoral homosexuality is included.

        • Dave

          Well I’m glad you cleared that all up for us John. Let me just make a note of that in my Bible…

          • Rebecca Behrent

            Why make a note in your Bible when it’s already written there?

      • Leon Jackson

        False! The Bible does condemn and talk about lesbianism in Romans chapter 1:26 “for this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even THEIR WOMEN did change the natural use into that which is against nature: and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly.” And as far as your opinion about the Bible, good it’s not for you it is for believers.

    • Happily

      Your comment holds no value.. What point are you trying to make? You mention that people confuse the new laws as obsolete but give no factual reason to believe their not, but instead, give your interpretation. Why would mixing materials for clothing be an exception under the new law of Christ, but not homosexuality? Jesus does not mention either.

      • Tim Loyal

        Your false. as Jesus did mention his whole Law and it was made for sinners not saints. Those in Christ have his Laws and keep his commandments. Those who do not have Jesus have the Law and every mark it has made. We are not under the ritual laws or the civil laws of the old testament in Jesus christ. those who are not saved have the whole law. But one mark against anyone, just one Law sends you to hell so it doestn matter if its homosexuality or a white lie. But Homosexuality is repeated as a sin in the new testament.
        1 Corinthians 9:9-10 Know
        ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be
        not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor
        effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

        10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

        ef·fem·i·nate (ĭ-fĕm′ə-nĭt)

        adj.

        1. Having qualities or characteristics more often associated with women than men. See Synonyms at female.

        2. Characterized by weakness and excessive refinement.

        • R.A.

          But doesn’t Paul repeatedly tell us that we are no longer under the law? I believe he said that the old Law was crucified and called it an old schoolmaster. (Gal 3:23-25, Rom 6:14-15, Rom 7:6). Paul seems to repeatedly say that there is no salvation under the law, an argument he continually had with his Jewish brothers. Additionally, most Rabbis will tell you there is no delineation within the law to suggest that some are moral and timeless while others are cultural and time-bound. This is a distinction that we humans have made that is not exactly Biblical. Also, “effeminate” is a poor translation of a difficult word in the Koine Greek that is probably better rendered as Catamites, which the Catholic bible does mention in a footnote, if memory serves. And they were young prostitutes, not simply more flamboyant men. And abusers of themselves with mankind is an educated guess for what Paul meant for the word arsenkoitai, which is a tough word to translate since Paul is the first person to use the word in antiquity. Some conjecture he could have invented it, and we have little contextual clues in other writings from the time period to help clarify its meaning.

          • Seb Crawford

            Has anyone ever considered why Paul may be a 13 apostle when Jesus and the book of revelation make it clear there were only 12? Paul is a self professed apostle and we only have his and Luke’s witness to his conversion?! Jesus said: if anyone should say, lo he is in the desert then believe him not’ Paul encountered Jesus in the desert, on the road to Damascus! Also there are many places where Paul completely contradicts Jesus’s own teachings! Have you been blinded to this great test! God isn’t confined to a book that Christians have made an Idol!

        • VD65

          This is merely my opinion but considering who wrote a lot of the New Testament like Corinthians I have always wondered why people pay attention to the rantings of Paul? He wasn’t chosen to be an apostle, he is self proclaimed and got into conflict with the original chosen apostles that actually were taught by Jesus. It never made much sense to me. Jesus stated he didn’t come to change the law which is the first five books of the Old Testament. I think Christians have gone for the negative side of things. You aren’t suppose to Judge or tell people they are going to hell. It is between them and their maker and that person is the only one who gets to make the judgment. Christians should not be condemning anyone who wants to marry because they are in love regardless of gender. I mean think of the intersexed person (hermaphrodite), many are born into society. The parents decide what gender they will live as and many times it flies in the face of what their DNA test shows. People are being born with brains that are male in a female body and vice versa. They know this through imaging and there is a difference in a male and female brain. This is a very complex issue that cannot be sloughed off anymore by what some book says.

          • Seb Crawford

            Also like I said earlier; the book of Rev makes it clear that there are 12 gates symbolising the 12 apostles! There is no room there for the 13 the self proclaimed apostle! Paul is the wolf in Sheep’s clothing Jesus warned of; hence why Christianity is so confused! Paul contradicts so much of Jesus’ teachings. Have many people fallen for this trap!? A big test designed to test people’s hearts?

        • Pedro

          Effeminate is wrongly translated!!! Again go do some research, and stop using the Word of God wrongly!

          • Seb Crawford

            Ooh hateful spewing of the mouth there? Very Loving

        • Retrodude

          You guys are all missing the point here. Whatever Jesus said about it, or what is said in the bible- you are forgetting that not all of us adhere to your book of morals. We don’t all share YOUR religious beliefs, but you Christians are so flippin’ ARROGANT about it, you just ASSUME we all go by the same way of thinking. YOU can believe what YOU want, and the same goes for the rest of us. Now mind your OWN business for once and go help the poor or needy or something useful.

          • Rebecca Behrent

            Then why have you tried to use the Bible, a book you apparently don’t believe in and obviously don’t understand, to make arguments AGAINST Christians? Why not use some other source you do believe in?

          • Retrodude

            I use it to show your utter hypocrisy about it all. You cherry-pick certain passages to justify your hate, but ignore other passages in the Bible. I don’t see you dipshits out protesting factories that make clothing from different textiles, or protesting people who work on the Sabbath, or Red Lobster for serving shellfish. Yet you all POUNCE on anything to justify your rabid, anti-gay thoughts.

            11 Things The Bible Bans, But You Do Anyway
            written by Sam Greenspan

            Yesterday, I found myself in a discussion about the anti-abortion people. The reason: It’s just incomprehensible to us that people get so zealous about that issue that they’ll go as far as to murder doctors who perform abortions and bomb abortion clinics.

            The conversation then took its natural turn to selective, self-serving interpretations of the Bible… finding a few verses that you can use to justify a position that lets you impose your morality on someone, and riding those verses hard and fast for the rest of your life.

            So I thought it’d be a good time to find a bunch of stuff that the Bible bans… stuff that’s a lot LESS convenient. Don’t worry, though… just because I’m pointing it out, that doesn’t mean you now have to follow it. It’s a lot easier to keep discriminating against gay people for no particular reason than to stop eating bacon, after all.

            Here are 11 things that are technically banned by the Bible. (All quotes are translations from the New American Standard Bible, but, because I’m actually trying to maintain serious journalistic integrity here, I cross-referenced several other translations to make sure I wasn’t missing the point.)

            This butt cut is a guaranteed one-way ticket to sin.Round haircuts. See you in Hell, Beatles… and/or kids with bowl cuts, surfer cuts or (my favorite) butt cuts. Leviticus 19:27 reads “You shall not round off the side-growth of your heads nor harm the edges of your beard.”

            Football. At least, the pure version of football, where you play with a pigskin. The modern synthetic footballs are ugly and slippery anyways. Leviticus 11:8, which is discussing pigs, reads “You shall not eat of their flesh nor touch their carcasses; they are unclean to you.”

            And you’re doubly breaking that if you wake up, eat some sausage then go throw around the football. Or go to the county fair and enter a greased pig catching contest.

            Fortune telling. Before you call a 900 number (do people still call 900 numbers, by the way?), read your horoscope or crack open a fortune cookie, realize you’re in huge trouble if you do.

            Leviticus 19:31 reads “Do not turn to mediums or spiritists; do not seek them out to be defiled by them. I am the Lord your God.” The penalty for that? Check Leviticus 20:6: “As for the person who turns to mediums and to spiritists, to play the harlot after them, I will also set My face against that person and will cut him off from among his people.”

            Seems like a lifetime of exile is a pretty harsh penalty for talking to Zoltar.

            Pulling out. The Bible doesn’t get too much into birth control… it’s clearly pro-populating but, back when it was written, no one really anticipated the condom or the sponge, so those don’t get specific bans.

            But… pulling out does. One of the most famous sexual-oriented Bible verses… the one that’s used as anti-masturbation rhetoric… is actually anti-pulling out.

            It’s Genesis 38:9-10: “Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so when he went in to his brother’s wife, he wasted his seed on the ground in order not to give offspring to his brother. But what he did was displeasing in the sight of the Lord; so He took his life also.”

            Yep — pull out and get smote. That’s harsh.

            Banned.Tattoos. No tattoos. Leviticus 19:28 reads, “You shall not make any cuts in your body for the dead nor make any tattoo marks on yourselves: I am the Lord.”

            Not even a little butterfly on your ankle. Or Thug Life across your abdomen. Or even, fittingly enough, a cross.

            Polyester, or any other fabric blends. The Bible doesn’t want you to wear polyester. Not just because it looks cheap. It’s sinfully unnatural.

            Leviticus 19:19 reads, “You are to keep My statutes. You shall not breed together two kinds of your cattle; you shall not sow your field with two kinds of seed, nor wear a garment upon you of two kinds of material mixed together.”

            Check the tag on your shirt right now. Didn’t realize you were mid-sin at this exact second, did you? (Unless you checked the tag by rolling off your neighbor’s wife while you two were having anal sex in the middle of robbing a blind guy. Then your Lycra-spandex blend is really the least of your problems.)

            Divorce. The Bible is very clear on this one: No divorcing. You can’t do it. Because when you marry someone, according to Mark 10:8, you “are no longer two, but one flesh.” And, Mark 10:9 reads, “What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.”

            Mark gets even more hardcore about it a few verses later, in Mark 10:11-12, “And He said to them, ‘Whoever divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her; and if she herself divorces her husband and marries another man, she is committing adultery.’”

            Letting people without testicles into church. Whether you’ve been castrated or lost one or two balls to cancer isn’t important. The Bible doesn’t get that specific. It just says you can’t pray.

            Deuteronomy 23:1 reads (this is the God’s Word translation, which spells it out better), “A man whose testicles are crushed or whose penis is cut off may never join the assembly of the Lord.”

            Oh, and the next verse says that if you’re a bastard, the child of a bastard… or even have a great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandchild of a bastard, you can’t come to church or synagogue either. Deuteronomy 23:2 reads, “No one of illegitimate birth shall enter the assembly of the Lord; none of his descendants, even to the tenth generation, shall enter the assembly of the Lord.”

            Wearing gold. 1 Timothy 2:9 doesn’t like your gold necklace at all. Or your pearl necklace. Or any clothes you’re wearing that you didn’t get from Forever 21, Old Navy or H&M.

            “Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments.”

            Lobster, shrimp and clam chowder: All banned.Shellfish. Leviticus 11:10 reads, “But whatever is in the seas and in the rivers that does not have fins and scales among all the teeming life of the water, and among all the living creatures that are in the water, they are detestable things to you.” And shellfish is right in that wheelhouse.

            Leviticus 11 bans a TON of animals from being eaten (it’s THE basis for Kosher law); beyond shellfish and pig, it also says you can’t eat camel, rock badger, rabbit, eagle, vulture, buzzard, falcon, raven, crow, ostrich, owl, seagull, hawk, pelican, stork, heron, bat, winged insects that walk on four legs unless they have joints to jump with like grasshoppers (?), bear, mole, mouse, lizard, gecko, crocodile, chameleon and snail.

            Sorry if that totally ruins your plans to go to a rock badger eat-off this weekend.

            Your wife defending your life in a fight by grabbing your attacker’s genitals. No joke. Deuteronomy actually devotes two verses to this exact scenario: Deuteronomy 25:11-12.

            “If two men, a man and his countryman, are struggling together, and the wife of one comes near to deliver her husband from the hand of the one who is striking him, and puts out her hand and seizes his genitals, then you shall cut off her hand; you shall not show pity.”

            That’s impossible to misinterpret. Ladies, if your husband is getting mugged, make sure to kick the mugger in the pills. Do not do the grip and squeeze (no matter what “Miss Congeniality” might advise). Or your hand needs to be cut off.

            As a final note, I know that nine of these 11 cite the Old Testament, which Christianity doesn’t necessarily adhere to as law.

            To which I say: If you’re going to ignore the section of Leviticus that bans about tattoos, pork, shellfish, round haircuts, polyester and football, how can you possibly turn around and quote Leviticus 18:22 (“You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.”) as irrefutable law?

            But that’s me trying to introduce logic to religious fanaticism (or, at least, trying to counter some mix of ignorance, bigotry and narcissism with logic). And I should probably know better.

            FYI- I was raised in the Church, and I understand the Bible FAR more than the likes of a sad, sorry, miserable woman like you.

          • Seb Crawford

            So do you not think Paul the supposed, self professed apostle may have been one of the first example of this great deception? Those days were also regarded a the last days! We assume that things happening now is the last days deception period but the last days were also in the days just after Jesus 2000 years ago. It would be foolish to think that what we have now is not a direct result of the deceptions that were occurring 2000 years ago. Discernment is a wonderful thing when you seek the living God for it

          • Seb Crawford

            We use it to point out the hypocricy of Christianity! I too was once a conservative bible believing Christian. Then I chose to seek God wholeheartedly for the truth of these many disagreements and not rely on my own interpretation! I got sick of the confusion and took God at his word that Jesus was the way the truth and the life, not Paul, not the Bible, but Jesus, an actual living being who exists!

          • Rebecca Behrent

            I would tell you to be very careful about who and what you think you’re following. One of the greatest signs of the last days is that there will be great deception. I’m saying to you to be sure of what you believe and what you do. Personally, it seems to me that pastors and priests and others are talking about the end times to an extent I’VE NEVER SEEN BEFORE. And I’m quite old enough to see this change taking place. The following is from just one site, but there are many, many others. Yes, we don’t know when the last days are coming for sure – but we can see the signs building and we should be prepared. Personally, I believe they’re coming soon. Just my personal belief which comes from what I see going on in the world (signs). This excerpt is from a site called Last Days Mystery, and I cannot give you the link or this site will delete my entire post:

            “. . . Stay away from a foolish man, for you will not find knowledge on his lips. The wisdom of the prudent is to give thought to their ways, but the folly of fools is deception. Fools mock at making amends for sin, but goodwill is found among the upright (Proverbs 14:7-9).
            The following is from just one site that talks about the signs of the end times.
            Sow for yourselves righteousness, reap the fruit of unfailing love, and break up your unplowed ground; for it is time to seek the LORD, until he comes and showers righteousness on you. But you have planted wickedness, you have reaped evil, you have eaten the fruit of deception. Because you have depended on your own strength and on your many warriors (Hosea 10:12-13)

            Man is prone to being deceived because he loves sin. The people deceived are those whose names are not written in the Book of Life and they will be many. The only people who are not deceived are those who trusted in the Lord with all their heart.

            All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast–all whose names have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world (Revelation 13:8).

            Jesus, when responding to the disciples question about His Second Coming and the End of the Age, warned them repeatedly about deception. He indicated that deception would be a serious problem in the last days and that many people would fall. So great would be the deception that He warned us about it ahead of time. Lets see what Jesus says.

            For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Christ, ‘ and will deceive many. … and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people (Matthew 24:5, 11).

            For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect–if that were possible. See, I have told you ahead of time (Matthew 24:24-25).

            In Revelation, Jesus warned us about the Great Deception that is coming.

            Then I saw another beast, coming out of the earth. He had two horns like a lamb, but he spoke like a dragon. He exercised all the authority of the first beast on his behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed. And he performed great and miraculous signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to earth in full view of men. Because of the signs he was given power to do on behalf of the first beast, he deceived the inhabitants of the earth(Revelation 13:11-14).

            Paul wrote much about the return of Christ and warned us against being deceived. He provided a specific test to ensure we are not deceived about the timing of the Day of the Lord and the return of Christ. The Day of the Lord cannot come until ‘the man of lawlessness is revealed.’ Paul explains, that the ‘the man of lawlessness’ will be revealed when he goes into the temple of God and declares that he is God.

            Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God. (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4).

            Deception is ever present but the days are coming and have come when most people will be deceived. Deception will continue to increase until the Day of the Lord and the return of Christ. When Christ returns, however, the one responsible for the deception will then be prevented from deceiving the nations again until the 1,000 years have ended.

            He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended (Revelation 20:3). . .”

          • Seb Crawford

            What makes you so sure that this Bible is the word of God? Did Man tell you this? And what kind if a witness only witnesses of itself? Even Jesus taught this! I have studied the Bible intensely for years and it is riddled with contradictions and outright falsities! It’s only when you look at the Bible objectively as I did, can you see this.

          • Rebecca Behrent

            The Bible has, in fact, withstood the test of time. You are only listening to those whose aim is try to turn the Bible into a lie. They will not succeed. You, instead, may fall into complete deception. In fact, those who continue to rebel against God by continuing to willfully repeat their sins again and again without any intention of turning from them, may well find that this is what eventually happens:
            ” And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,” Romans 1:28.
            My friend, because you apparently have not made a real study of the Bible ITSELF, you are already listening to those whose aim is to tear it apart and totally discredit it. In other words, you are listening to deception, and the more you continue to listen to MEN instead of God, the further you will be drawn away from His Word found in the Bible.

          • Seb Crawford

            You make rather huge assumptions! (You just judged me). Despite Jesus telling you not to!?

            The Koran has also stood the test of time! As has the Jewish faith! This is hardly evidence.

          • Rebecca Behrent

            The Christian faith was based on the Jewish faith – one lead into the other, so that point is moot. I am not afraid of any LGBTQ like so many would have people believe – but I am afraid of a radical and violent faction of Muslims so I will not comment further.

          • Rebecca Behrent

            You’d better go read the passage about judging much more thoroughly. We are to judge ourselves first, and then when we do judge others, we must “judge righteously”. Please go read that passage because you and many others in here have it completely wrong.

          • Seb Crawford

            Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye (Matthew 7:1 – 7:5 ESV)

            Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven (Luke 6:37 ESV)

            Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor (James 4:11 – 4:12 ESV)

          • Seb Crawford

            For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? (1 Corinthians 5:12 ESV)

            And Jesus cried out and said, “Whoever believes in me, believes not in me but in him who sent me. And whoever sees me sees him who sent me. I have come into the world as light, so that whoever believes in me may not remain in darkness. If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. The (John 12:44 – 12:48 ESV)

            You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace. (Galatians 5:4 ESV)

            When you point the finger at others, there are always three pointing right back at you (Seb1:1)

          • Lollygirl217

            Millions of people have found what it says in it to be true.

          • David Idoru

            Crawford, did you really study the Bible intensely for years? Were the contradictions not due to your personal weaknesses? Please, read the following verses again and see what the bible says about you:

            1Co 1:19 For it is written, “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart.” 1Co 1:20 Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 1Co 1:21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe. 1Co 1:22 For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, 1Co 1:23 but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, 1Co 1:24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 1Co 1:25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men. 1Co 1:26 For consider your calling, brothers: not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth. 1Co 1:27 But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; 1Co 1:28 God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, 1Co 1:29 so that no human being might boast in the presence of God. 1Co 1:30 And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption, 1Co 1:31 so that, as it is written, “Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.”

            1Co 3:18 Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you thinks that he is wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise. 1Co 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God. For it is written, “He catches the wise in their craftiness,” 1Co 3:20 and again, “The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are futile.” 1Co 3:21 So let no one boast in men. For all things are yours, 1Co 3:22 whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas or the world or life or death or the present or the future—all are yours, 1Co 3:23 and you are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s.

            Perhaps you don’t have the spirit of truth that bear’s witness of the father and the son otherwise He would have revealed to you the truth about himself. This is what Jesus said about Holy spirit, “Joh 16:13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. Joh 16:14 He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. Joh 16:15 All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you”.

            Go read the bible again with the help of the spirit but if you can’t, you still be able the know the truth at the end of time.

          • Seb Crawford

            Oh, Paul the 13th self professed apostle! He’s a good one that one. Sounds like the scriptures you post in response to me are a bit of a cop out! Why would God give intelligence but then thwart it? Doesn’t sound like he’s doing his beast to appeal to people. Not particularly loving either. I once had this unshaken Faith you seem to experience now, I was absolutely convinced the bible was the word of God. Nothing anyone could say would shake that faith ever. But here I am, still not delivered from my abhorrent sin, still Gay and having spent the last 10 years despising and resenting this fact I don’t know what else to conclude. The bible also teaches to seek wisdom! Paul just contradicts that previous statement in Proverbs!

            Yes I have intensely studied the Bible. I looked objectively at it though. Maybe you should try the same? But I don’t expect you to. I appreciate your beliefs, I just don’t appreciate being demonised, judged and condemned by those who Jesus clearly told not to!

          • Seb Crawford

            I accept you haven’t demonised me! Thank you

          • David Idoru

            Crawford, do you have a problem with Paul calling himself as the 13 Apostle? Don’t you know that Paul was one of the people of the early church who had direct encounter with Jesus (See Act 9)? Don’t you know that verse 15 of the 9th chapter shows that Jesus commissioned him as an Apostle?

            Before Jesus ascended to heaven, the first 12 closest disciples and who were chosen by Jesus to spread the gospel were called apostles (or send ones). Today, there are many others Christians who are being called to spread the gospel and who qualify to be called Apostles (sent ones). Please don’t be confused and let me know the verses on wisdom that you think Paul has contradicted.

            While on your desire to get delivered from your abhorrent sin and if you really want to be set free, you can start by turning away from that sin. Just like turning away from other sins, turn away from anything that is not right before God.

            You will never be set free from sin unless you first release what you are doing is wrong and sin, and turn away from it.

            Sin is disobedience and it can separate us from God and it makes the almighty God become nothing in
            our life. That is why you don’t feel God anymore.

            If you are truly born again, the spirit of God and your human spirit becomes one (John 17:21-23, 1Cor 6:17) and since you become one, your human spirit can very easily find God’s will.

            You see, human beings, have become naturally sinful, and if Adam and Eva did not become
            rebellious against God, perhaps our human nature would have been different. For instance, our sinful nature has made us to yearn for sex with different women (adultery/ fornication). And the same sinful nature that also makes men manifest thing like sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, envy, drunkenness, etcetera, has made the gays get attracted to fellow man and lesbians to be attracted to fellow women.

            Firstly, let this therefore be known that a man who sleeps with fellow men or women who sleep with fellow women does so against the Bible prescribes.

            Secondly, let it be known that, whether straight or gay, we have the free will choose what is right and wrong and if we therefore chose evil without repenting, we will be responsible for being separated from God for eternity when we die.

            Finally, let it be known that it is better to let go our human pleasure than be denied heaven. It is better to listen to the warning of Jesus in Mat. 18:9 (And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell, It is better to go
            to heaven without experiencing this bodily pleasure than being rejected by God when we die)

            Don’t let sin separate you from God and please stop questioning God’s word through Moses and Paul and particularly Lev. 20:13; Rom 1:22-32; 1Cor6:9-10; 1Ti 1:9-11.

          • David Idoru

            It is the Holy Spirit that makes us be so sure that the Bible is the word of God.

            To me, the Holy Spirit is more real than you. He speaks to my inner man through either inner witness or inner voice. It is through the Spirit that you can see the bible come to light. He reveals himself to those who seek him with an honest heart. If you really want to know God, allow Him to build a relationship with you.

          • Seb Crawford

            I’m sorry, but you assume I haven’t done this? I have genuinely sought the true living God for the last 20 years. I believe in him, I just don’t believe in the Bibles interpretation of him. It contradicts and I believe God has shown me this quite clearly. There’s no use arguing. Our relationship to God is individual and no one can judge anyone else other than God. We can’t make judgments for him either.

            Thank you for your kind message though. I really appreciate that you were at least sincere and thoughtful in your response!

            Take Care

          • David Idoru

            Crawford, sorry for you have been going through. Life is full of contradictions and 20 years of looking for answers to your questions should not stop you from seeking to know more about God. I believe your questions will all be answers one day.

          • Cat Hurd

            Amen.

          • Seb Crawford

            Hmm. I appreciate your input. Have have visited the site you refer to many a time in the past. However, Jesus said to a group of people; there are some standing here who shall not taste of death before the son of man comes back again. This was 2000 years ago and those people are long dead.

          • Rebecca Behrent

            I think you might be confusing when he rose again on the third day and many of the apostles and others saw him? Not referring to Christ’s second coming and world judgement as talked about in Revelation. Two different appearances by Christ.

          • Seb Crawford

            In context, this passage speaks of his second coming, when he shall judge the world. Please read below:

          • Rebecca Behrent

            Obviously he was not talking about those particular people – but people that would be standing in that same spot in the future, who will not have died the first death (physical death as opposed to the 2nd and final spiritual death of unbelievers) and who would see the Son of Man coming in his Kingdom.

          • Tina Marie Blackson

            Hi Rebecca

            You have blessed my soul with your integrity and your standing on and not
            compromising the word of God regarding homosexuality but on this topic sweetie you are on the Battle of
            Mount Carmel but if you read 1Kings 18 you know who already won. You know as I was reading
            all of the comments satan spirit is in these comments and I say to you the Lord rebukes you satan. The more I read the disputes about the Word of God and how he feels about Homosexuality this is not our battle but God’s. (2 Chronicles 20:15). We can say but so much but it is going to take prayer to defeat the enemy with this subject because when people don’t want to hear the truth you have to do what Paul says in Acts 18:6: 6 And when they opposed themselves, and blasphemed, he shook his raiment, and said unto them, Your blood be upon your own heads; I am clean;from henceforth I will go unto the Gentiles. For Rebecca and those of us who lives by and trust the word of God clear your conscience and don’t be angry because you have said all that you could say.

            Because the word of God says in: (2 Timothy 2:15) 15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. My hats off to you Rebecca and for the others you who have truly shown that you study your word. There were comments from
            people that said they study the word of God for themselves and yet they are disputing and interpreting God’s word into what they believe it is saying. Where is the proof that they are studying the word for themselves because I am hearing more debating than a little bit, I don’t care what they say or what they think about what God is saying in his word about Homosexuality or any other sins that man commits on a daily basis sin has a penalty and the word of God says in Romans 6:23:23 For the wages of sin is death;
            but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord and Proverbs 14: 12 says: 12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
            Sin comes with a price. My questions to everyone are you willing to pay the price with your soul?

            Many on here are leaning to their own understanding about what God says about homosexuality. The word of God says in Proverbs 3: 5-6: 5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. 6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. But yet there is no evidence of knowledge or the understanding of God words because they’re still trying to justify homosexuality. Romans 1: 28: And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient. Rebecca
            what you are saying to those who oppose you regarding God’s stand against Homosexuality is falling on deaf ears and the word of God talks about that too in Proverbs 28:9: 9 He that turneth away his ear
            from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination. And it is also mentioned in Mark 49: And he said unto them, He that has ears to hear, let him hear. How can they hear if they don’t have ears to hear? People hear what they want because when they are into what they are into (sin) God has no preference at all in what they are doing.

            God did not change his mind back then and he haven’t changed his mind for this time era what he says about Homosexuality because there is no justification for sin or any other acts of sin
            nor can they change the word of God to fit their own purpose because it is what it is. The world
            changes the way it thinks and does things everyday but the word of God does not change. No matter who does not like it (Hebrews 13:8) says: 8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever, and (Numbers 23:19) says: 19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

          • Tina Marie Blackson

            Hi Rebecca

            You have blessed my soul with your integrity and your standing on and not
            compromising the word of God regarding homosexuality but on this topic sweetie you are on the Battle of
            Mount Carmel but if you read 1Kings 18 you know who already won. You know as I was reading
            all of the comments satan spirit is in these comments and I say to you the Lord rebukes you satan. The more I read the disputes about the Word of God and how he feels about Homosexuality this is not our battle but God’s. (2 Chronicles 20:15). We can say but so much but it is going to take prayer to defeat the enemy with this subject because when people don’t want to hear the truth you have to do what Paul says in Acts 18:6: 6 And when they opposed themselves, and blasphemed, he shook his raiment, and said unto them, Your blood be upon your own heads; I am clean;from henceforth I will go unto the Gentiles. For Rebecca and those of us who lives by and trust the word of God clear your conscience and don’t be angry because you have said all that you could say.

            Because the word of God says in: (2 Timothy 2:15) 15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. My hats off to you Rebecca and for the others you who have truly shown that you study your word. There were comments from
            people that said they study the word of God for themselves and yet they are disputing and interpreting God’s word into what they believe it is saying. Where is the proof that they are studying the word for themselves because I am hearing more debating than a little bit, I don’t care what they say or what they think about what God is saying in his word about Homosexuality or any other sins that man commits on a daily basis sin has a penalty and the word of God says in Romans 6:23:23 For the wages of sin is death;
            but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord and Proverbs 14: 12 says: 12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
            Sin comes with a price. My questions to everyone are you willing to pay the price with your soul?

            Many on here are leaning to their own understanding about what God says about homosexuality. The word of God says in Proverbs 3: 5-6: 5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. 6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. But yet there is no evidence of knowledge or the understanding of God words because they’re still trying to justify homosexuality. Romans 1: 28: And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient. Rebecca
            what you are saying to those who oppose you regarding God’s stand against Homosexuality is falling on deaf ears and the word of God talks about that too in Proverbs 28:9: 9 He that turneth away his ear
            from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination. And it is also mentioned in Mark 49: And he said unto them, He that has ears to hear, let him hear. How can they hear if they don’t have ears to hear? People hear what they want because when they are into what they are into (sin) God has no preference at all in what they are doing.

            God did not change his mind back then and he haven’t changed his mind for this time era what he says about Homosexuality because there is no justification for sin or any other acts of sin
            nor can they change the word of God to fit their own purpose because it is what it is. The world
            changes the way it thinks and does things everyday but the word of God does not change. No matter who does not like it (Hebrews 13:8) says: 8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever, and (Numbers 23:19) says: 19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

          • Tina Marie Blackson

            Hi Rebecca

            You have blessed my soul with your integrity and your standing on and not
            compromising the word of God regarding homosexuality but on this topic sweetie you are on the Battle of
            Mount Carmel but if you read 1Kings 18 you know who already won. You know as I was reading
            all of the comments satan spirit is in these comments and I say to you the Lord rebukes you satan. The more I read the disputes about the Word of God and how he feels about Homosexuality this is not our battle but God’s. (2 Chronicles 20:15). We can say but so much but it is going to take prayer to defeat the enemy with this subject because when people don’t want to hear the truth you have to do what Paul says in Acts 18:6: 6 And when they opposed themselves, and blasphemed, he shook his raiment, and said unto them, Your blood be upon your own heads; I am clean;from henceforth I will go unto the Gentiles. For Rebecca and those of us who lives by and trust the word of God clear your conscience and don’t be angry because you have said all that you could say.

            Because the word of God says in: (2 Timothy 2:15) 15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. My hats off to you Rebecca and for the others you who have truly shown that you study your word. There were comments from
            people that said they study the word of God for themselves and yet they are disputing and interpreting God’s word into what they believe it is saying. Where is the proof that they are studying the word for themselves because I am hearing more debating than a little bit, I don’t care what they say or what they think about what God is saying in his word about Homosexuality or any other sins that man commits on a daily basis sin has a penalty and the word of God says in Romans 6:23:23 For the wages of sin is death;
            but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord and Proverbs 14: 12 says: 12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
            Sin comes with a price. My questions to everyone are you willing to pay the price with your soul?

            Many on here are leaning to their own understanding about what God says about homosexuality. The word of God says in Proverbs 3: 5-6: 5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. 6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. But yet there is no evidence of knowledge or the understanding of God words because they’re still trying to justify homosexuality. Romans 1: 28: And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient. Rebecca
            what you are saying to those who oppose you regarding God’s stand against Homosexuality is falling on deaf ears and the word of God talks about that too in Proverbs 28:9: 9 He that turneth away his ear
            from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination. And it is also mentioned in Mark 49: And he said unto them, He that has ears to hear, let him hear. How can they hear if they don’t have ears to hear? People hear what they want because when they are into what they are into (sin) God has no preference at all in what they are doing.

            God did not change his mind back then and he haven’t changed his mind for this time era what he says about Homosexuality because there is no justification for sin or any other acts of sin
            nor can they change the word of God to fit their own purpose because it is what it is. The world
            changes the way it thinks and does things everyday but the word of God does not change. No matter who does not like it (Hebrews 13:8) says: 8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever, and (Numbers 23:19) says: 19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

          • Rebecca Behrent

            Thank you, Tina. Since you took the time to add your kind reply I will respond to you. However, I have basically said all I could say regarding this entire discussion. And as I tried to emphasize to everyone, it isn’t ME saying it but rather what the Bible says. There are many people here that are angry with me, but the words are not my words but the words in the Bible. They call me a “hater” and other names which makes me sad because they don’t see that by trying to show them the truth of the word of the Bible, I could show them no better love – for there is no better love than what God our Creator and his Son Jesus offer us. However, we can only be shown that unconditional love if we turn to God and his Son Jesus Christ. If we turn away, it is our choice and God lets us go eventually. We will have no one to blame but ourselves when the doors of heaven are closed forever to us. It is not God’s will, nor any true Christian’s prayer that this happen to anyone. Thank you, Tina, for also standing up for the truth of the Word. It is comforting to know that there are others out there who do read the Bible and understand what it means and what is required of us. Please don’t be offended if I don’t respond any more regarding this discussion but for me it has to end somewhere. God Bless!

          • Sarah Lynn Kelley

            Very well said. Thank you!

          • Seb Crawford

            Here here! If ‘Christians’ actually spent more time Loving their Neighbour as themselves, feeding the poor and looking after the oppressed (rather than being the oppressor) perhaps the world would be a better place by now. Their focus isn’t on Live and Jesus it’s on prejudice and hate. I was taught by Jesus about recognising his genuine people by their fruits and quite frankly I see a lot of barren bushels within Christianity and a lot of rot!

          • Tina Marie Blackson

            @Retrodude Not caring about what Jesus says in his word about righteousness and moral living hell will be your home. Christian or non Christian we cannot live in an ungodly manner and expect for God not to be displeased. There is a penalty for immoral living and that is death. God is God and there is no other. For when we all stand before Christ the bible says in Roman 14: 11: 11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. 12So then every one of us shall give
            account of himself to God. And yes we are minding our business by doing God’s business. The job of a Christian is not just to help the poor but to share the Gospel of Christ and the blood that he shed for you because your soul is in danger and I would not want to be responsible for you dying in your sin without
            you hearing about Jesus and going to Hell. Satan job is to keep you blind in your mind from receiving a free gift of salvation. 2 Corinthians 4:4 says: 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. Satan is running loose and wild because he does not want to burn by himself. John 3:16-21 says: 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of
            God.19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

            My question to you is where do you want to spend eternity?

    • fddsaf

      Did you miss the whole lesson?

    • arianna

      It also says a woman cannot be in charge of a man and her role is of silence. Slaves should just be happy with their job so that they won’t revolt. Pillaging and destroying lands is ok. You should read the whole bible instead of the bits you want to believe. It is an old outdated book. It says Love thy neihbor. That is what you must do not love thy neighbor..unless they are gay then kill them all. Love thy neighbor.

      • Scottie Pimppen

        You my friend just completely took the bible out of context. lol

      • Josephine Evans

        Yes, reading the whole bible tells you which bits and parts to believe. some of it is history while other is law. And you claim we should read the whole bible, maybe you Got confused and thought it said to kill sinners. it doesn’t. it says to lead the m to righteousness by showing them love (AKA love thy neighbor).
        I think you are a little confused.

        • Seb Crawford

          Since when was condemning and belittling showing Love??

          • Rebecca Behrent

            Since when is letting your brother or sister stumble in sin and risk losing their soul showing love?

      • Philip Lee

        Arianna, I wouldn’t worry about what a guy who calls himself “Scottie Pimppen” thinks about you. It seems like you actually read the Bible, and are using the words of Christ, which (could it be?!) is the reason Christianity exists. I bet he only reads Sports Illustrated and believes only what people tell him is in The Bible. He says you took it out of context, but you didn’t. You pulled these verses from the same book (Leviticus), and that is where “their” argument breaks down entirely…And they don’t like to hear that stuff, Arianna. It would prove they are being hypocrites, and we all know how much God loves those.

        • Wayne McIntosh

          If you believe a single word she said you are just as big of a hypocrite and bigot as she is!

          • Philip Lee

            I’m not believing HER word, Wayne…I am believing THE word. There is a difference…

          • Wayne McIntosh

            She says the bible is an old out dated book…that to me sounds like she doesn’t believe a single word of Gods word, do you agree with that?

          • Wayne McIntosh

            I see ignorance running rampant on this thread…many are reading the bible and understanding it based on their own ability….I do not have the ability to understand it…I’m dumb to be quite frank! So I’m in need of guidance from God himself..I pray for knowledge and understanding as i read his word and by that I understand what I’m reading!

      • Seb Crawford

        I know right! This isn’t rocket science is it?

        • Josephine Evans

          Condemning and belittling who? I am talking about the love that God has shown us: being kind, and caring, by being there for people, and supportive, respectful, just an all around good person. We can both agree that condemning and belittling is not the way of God, and if thats what you think it is then you haven’t met the right christians.

          • Seb Crawford

            Good point but perpetuating condemnation isn’t helpful

          • Seb Crawford

            I clearly haven’t met the right Christian. Why would that be? (PS, you just judged every Christian I met).

            I am generalising, surely you also hear ‘Christians’ say some awful things.

          • Kris Dahlin

            I do not understand so many things but most of all I don’t understand why if someone disagrees with something and believes it is a sin why they are thought of as hateful, haters, etc..? No true Christian has ever said they “hate” anyone. All people sin and fall short whether heterosexual or GLBT Most Christians say that they believe it (homosexuality) to be a sin, but they do NOT say they Hate the Homosexual (person), just that they believe homosexuality to be a sin. Some Christians believe that no matter what all people should have the same rights but wish that the GLBT community would not want to call the union a marriage, but by another name, only because of what is defined as Marriage in the bible. Then there are some Christians now that are accepting of anyone that wants to be married or become a Pastor of the church. None of these groups talk about Hate though. So I just do not understand why people can not just find a place that makes them comfortable or believes the same as they do, and not label others for what they believe but try to be more understanding of all. If we would just listen to what everyone is saying we could see that each has some point of view that is very true and you can see why the believe/feel the way they do. Just labeling someone as a hater because they do not agree with you is something that is destroying us all.

          • Rebecca Behrent

            Merely being “good” does not get you into heaven.

      • Cat Hurd

        Wives should submit to their husbands as the head of the house as the husbands submit to The Lord. It doesn’t say the wife is a slave

        • KPC

          But, why does the husband have to be the head of the house? Why can’t it be an equal partnership…or….*gasp!* the woman at the head of the house (if that is what both parties want, and works best for their marriage)… Culture and times have changed….if I am not completely submissive to my husband then I am a sinner….but, he can do whatever he wants? I am a Christian, but I am also aware of the free will and access to science that I believe GOD has given us. Maybe God has been all knowing this entire time, and we are just slowly beginning to realize as time goes on the true meaning of his message. Don’t forget….men (mere mortals!) wrote the bible.

          • Wayne McIntosh

            Because Man came 1st…God took woman from mans rib as helper to man! God says Man is head of the household..that doesn’t mean we own women or doesn’t give men a license to abuse women! Don’t question Gods plan just follow it!

          • mdc4JC

            God wrote the Bible using men he chose to inspire. So, it wasn’t written by “mere mortals as you claim. Because it came from God, the Bible is His perfect word – infallible and inerrant.

      • Wayne McIntosh

        You clearly do not understand the bible..it’s not an old outdated book…it’s the true word of God…his word is just as strong now as it was in the old biblical days! Not one word of this prophecy is to be changed!

    • Kaitlyn

      It says in the Bible god so loved the world he gave his only child to die for our sins umm cant you see that our means EVERYONE’S man you all say this and that that’s all bull, plus in the commandments it says to love thy neighbor and in the bible it says GOD AND ONLY GOD CAN JUDGE YOU MAN YOUR ALL DUMB, no where does it say that that when he was on earth that he said anything about that being gay is wrong. and god was actually Jesus so there you go you are all wrong again, plus the bible is so old people have changed things in it over time and scientists have proved that some stuff could have happened and that it has been changed because just last month they found a bible that was thousands of years old and some of the stuff in that was different. And in that bible it does not condem gays but let me guess havn’t read the translated version of that bible so what am i saying you shouldnt talk you guys are all jerks

    • Fayne

      However, even if a person believes that homosexuality is a sin based upon this scripture, the next verse does say that homosexuals can inherit the kingdom if they come to the Lord, Jesus Christ.
      Corinthians 6:11 – “And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.”

    • ash

      I agree. All the sins shouldn’t have to be written as 10 commandments for us to know it’s wrong. It’s common sense but the bible tells us in they’re way of speaking that all those things r wrong and some in excessive use can be a sin. Like smoking too much. Eating too much sugar or drinking to the point of drunkeness…. etc

    • Philip Lee

      You know the whole problem with that Leviticus verse? It’s in the OLD Testament. Jesus came along and said “I am the new way!” What do you not get about that? Do you sacrifice a bull on the altar? If not, YOU are in violation of Lev.1:9. Do you know of anyone or have you ever worked on a Sunday? According to Exodus 35:2, you and anyone else who has ever worked on a Sunday should be put to death. The problem with people like yourself is that you only utilize the verses which justify your own fears, and casually disregard the rest saying, “But Jesus died for that reason”. But Jesus also died for those other reasons, too. In fact, it was Jesus who taught us to love EVERYONE and said, “Judge not lest ye be judged yourself!” So how about leaving the dictating of morals up to God. God doesn’t need your help…God is the final judge, not you. You might want to consult the Bible on the things Jesus said, rather than what was said before He came around…Otherwise, you are not a Christian, but rather a bully that attends church. You say you are preaching the truth? I say my truth is bigger than your truth. My truth is God’s, and the truth is we ALL fall short of His grace, but He loves us ANYWAY. Just remember, if God created everything, then homosexuals might be a part of that equation…You are basically saying that God made a mistake. Good luck with that.

      • Seb Crawford

        Exactly! There’s the big test right there! Jesus said he, was the way the truth and the life not; the book of Leviticus is the way the truth and the life! Or the bible for that matter! Jesus is a real person! Therefore John says: you need not that any man should teach you for the spirit shall lead you into all truth! It’s because Jesus is a living spirit and only by actually coming to this actual living person that we learn the truth. We get to know a person by actually meeting and communing with them, not reading about them!

      • Wayne McIntosh

        No, God didn’t make a mistake..God didn’t create homosexuals…he created every living thing on this earth….he did not create sin..homosexuality is a sin..sin is of satan not God! Homosexuality is not a person…it is a sinful lifestyle that God himself condemned! Good luck with that!

    • Jim Frees

      11 Things The Bible Bans, But You Do Anyway
      written by Sam Greenspan

      Yesterday, I found myself in a discussion about the anti-abortion people. The reason: It’s just incomprehensible to us that people get so zealous about that issue that they’ll go as far as to murder doctors who perform abortions and bomb abortion clinics.

      The conversation then took its natural turn to selective, self-serving interpretations of the Bible… finding a few verses that you can use to justify a position that lets you impose your morality on someone, and riding those verses hard and fast for the rest of your life.

      So I thought it’d be a good time to find a bunch of stuff that the Bible bans… stuff that’s a lot LESS convenient. Don’t worry, though… just because I’m pointing it out, that doesn’t mean you now have to follow it. It’s a lot easier to keep discriminating against gay people for no particular reason than to stop eating bacon, after all.

      Here are 11 things that are technically banned by the Bible. (All quotes are translations from the New American Standard Bible, but, because I’m actually trying to maintain serious journalistic integrity here, I cross-referenced several other translations to make sure I wasn’t missing the point.)

      This butt cut is a guaranteed one-way ticket to sin.Round haircuts. See you in Hell, Beatles… and/or kids with bowl cuts, surfer cuts or (my favorite) butt cuts. Leviticus 19:27 reads “You shall not round off the side-growth of your heads nor harm the edges of your beard.”

      Football. At least, the pure version of football, where you play with a pigskin. The modern synthetic footballs are ugly and slippery anyways. Leviticus 11:8, which is discussing pigs, reads “You shall not eat of their flesh nor touch their carcasses; they are unclean to you.”

      And you’re doubly breaking that if you wake up, eat some sausage then go throw around the football. Or go to the county fair and enter a greased pig catching contest.

      Fortune telling. Before you call a 900 number (do people still call 900 numbers, by the way?), read your horoscope or crack open a fortune cookie, realize you’re in huge trouble if you do.

      Leviticus 19:31 reads “Do not turn to mediums or spiritists; do not seek them out to be defiled by them. I am the Lord your God.” The penalty for that? Check Leviticus 20:6: “As for the person who turns to mediums and to spiritists, to play the harlot after them, I will also set My face against that person and will cut him off from among his people.”

      Seems like a lifetime of exile is a pretty harsh penalty for talking to Zoltar.

      Pulling out. The Bible doesn’t get too much into birth control… it’s clearly pro-populating but, back when it was written, no one really anticipated the condom or the sponge, so those don’t get specific bans.

      But… pulling out does. One of the most famous sexual-oriented Bible verses… the one that’s used as anti-masturbation rhetoric… is actually anti-pulling out.

      It’s Genesis 38:9-10: “Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so when he went in to his brother’s wife, he wasted his seed on the ground in order not to give offspring to his brother. But what he did was displeasing in the sight of the Lord; so He took his life also.”

      Yep — pull out and get smote. That’s harsh.

      Banned.Tattoos. No tattoos. Leviticus 19:28 reads, “You shall not make any cuts in your body for the dead nor make any tattoo marks on yourselves: I am the Lord.”

      Not even a little butterfly on your ankle. Or Thug Life across your abdomen. Or even, fittingly enough, a cross.

      Polyester, or any other fabric blends. The Bible doesn’t want you to wear polyester. Not just because it looks cheap. It’s sinfully unnatural.

      Leviticus 19:19 reads, “You are to keep My statutes. You shall not breed together two kinds of your cattle; you shall not sow your field with two kinds of seed, nor wear a garment upon you of two kinds of material mixed together.”

      Check the tag on your shirt right now. Didn’t realize you were mid-sin at this exact second, did you? (Unless you checked the tag by rolling off your neighbor’s wife while you two were having anal sex in the middle of robbing a blind guy. Then your Lycra-spandex blend is really the least of your problems.)

      Divorce. The Bible is very clear on this one: No divorcing. You can’t do it. Because when you marry someone, according to Mark 10:8, you “are no longer two, but one flesh.” And, Mark 10:9 reads, “What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.”

      Mark gets even more hardcore about it a few verses later, in Mark 10:11-12, “And He said to them, ‘Whoever divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her; and if she herself divorces her husband and marries another man, she is committing adultery.’”

      Letting people without testicles into church. Whether you’ve been castrated or lost one or two balls to cancer isn’t important. The Bible doesn’t get that specific. It just says you can’t pray.

      Deuteronomy 23:1 reads (this is the God’s Word translation, which spells it out better), “A man whose testicles are crushed or whose penis is cut off may never join the assembly of the Lord.”

      Oh, and the next verse says that if you’re a bastard, the child of a bastard… or even have a great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandchild of a bastard, you can’t come to church or synagogue either. Deuteronomy 23:2 reads, “No one of illegitimate birth shall enter the assembly of the Lord; none of his descendants, even to the tenth generation, shall enter the assembly of the Lord.”

      Wearing gold. 1 Timothy 2:9 doesn’t like your gold necklace at all. Or your pearl necklace. Or any clothes you’re wearing that you didn’t get from Forever 21, Old Navy or H&M.

      “Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments.”

      Lobster, shrimp and clam chowder: All banned.Shellfish. Leviticus 11:10 reads, “But whatever is in the seas and in the rivers that does not have fins and scales among all the teeming life of the water, and among all the living creatures that are in the water, they are detestable things to you.” And shellfish is right in that wheelhouse.

      Leviticus 11 bans a TON of animals from being eaten (it’s THE basis for Kosher law); beyond shellfish and pig, it also says you can’t eat camel, rock badger, rabbit, eagle, vulture, buzzard, falcon, raven, crow, ostrich, owl, seagull, hawk, pelican, stork, heron, bat, winged insects that walk on four legs unless they have joints to jump with like grasshoppers (?), bear, mole, mouse, lizard, gecko, crocodile, chameleon and snail.

      Sorry if that totally ruins your plans to go to a rock badger eat-off this weekend.

      Your wife defending your life in a fight by grabbing your attacker’s genitals. No joke. Deuteronomy actually devotes two verses to this exact scenario: Deuteronomy 25:11-12.

      “If two men, a man and his countryman, are struggling together, and the wife of one comes near to deliver her husband from the hand of the one who is striking him, and puts out her hand and seizes his genitals, then you shall cut off her hand; you shall not show pity.”

      That’s impossible to misinterpret. Ladies, if your husband is getting mugged, make sure to kick the mugger in the pills. Do not do the grip and squeeze (no matter what “Miss Congeniality” might advise). Or your hand needs to be cut off.

      As a final note, I know that nine of these 11 cite the Old Testament, which Christianity doesn’t necessarily adhere to as law.

      To which I say: If you’re going to ignore the section of Leviticus that bans about tattoos, pork, shellfish, round haircuts, polyester and football, how can you possibly turn around and quote Leviticus 18:22 (“You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.”) as irrefutable law?

      But that’s me trying to introduce logic to religious fanaticism (or, at least, trying to counter some mix of ignorance, bigotry and narcissism with logic). And I should probably know better.

    • Cee Rob

      I AGREE with this guest. You PREACH the true word & operate in God’s Spirit. I pray that He continues to bless and strengthen you to deliver the truth to all people. I love Homosexuals but not their sins. Most of them are the nicest folks you will ever meet but unfortunately, they are going to hell in a hand basket, nicely woven, with a rainbow bow on top.

  • http://www.facebook.com/lucyparanormal Daniel Tiberius

    Well said.

  • Joe Bryant

    Hi Mr. Hamilton (or anyone that knows), Can you recommend reading online for more detail on this? I’d like to explore further and dig into more specifically how folks are interpreting this wrongly. Not just anecdotally that folks we know don’t fit stereotypes. But real in depth discussion of how the verses are being wrongly interpreted? I’m very interested in this and in gaining clarity on the topic as obviously it’s a hot issue.

    • R.A.

      Hello, Mr. Bryant. I know you posted ages ago, but if thought I’d throw some info into the mix. If you are looking for a conservative view, Robert Gagnon is a prolific writer (which is a gross understatement). He has a more conservative understanding, and many who hold such a view hold him up as a primary defender of conservatist readings. I don’t find his assertion of gender complementarianism to be entirely biblically based on my understanding of the text, but that is his main thrust of argument. On the flip side, you’ll find many authors who make some good points but are weak on others on the progressive front. I’ve found a couple of sources that have better arguments than others. There is a video on youtube of Dr. Michael White and his sermon called “The ‘H’ Word”. I found it to be fairly convincing on many grounds. He’s very knowledgeable about scripture and the context in which it was written. Another source is Pastor Romell Weekly’s books, particularly The Rebuttal, which addresses many conservative arguments in a fairly consistently logical fashion. You can find Mr. Weekly’s books on Amazon. I got mine for the kindle app. Both of those gentlemen do a great job looking at scripture reverevtly, as I do. Other google searches that might help: arsenkoitai, malakoi, toevah. Those words are scrutinized in particular by many progressive theologians. Hope some of this stuff is helpful.

  • David L. Moore

    The case of slavery whose biblical context did not apply to the racially based slavery of the 19th century is not really parallel to the case of homosexual practice in Bible times and today. The apostle Paul lived in a time when homosexual practice was a wide spread and generally accepted part of the social scene. Marriage contracts from about that time often included, along with other stipulations, that the the husband would not keep another woman nor a catamite boy in addition to his wife. Nero, the Roman emperor contemporary with Paul practiced homosexuality, even to being part to homosexual marriage. So, really, the idea that the Bible’s expressed attitude against homosexual practice is a relic of a sexually up-tight age is not at all valid, and arguments based that idea should be abandoned.

    • R.A.

      I was wondering if you’d mind me entering a bit of friendly debate. I’m a sucker for a good discussion.

      Within the context of your argument, you still mention same sex acts within the contexts of activities that would be wrong for heterosexuals, as well. A Catamite on the side would be tantamount to adultery, right? And didn’t Paul mention catamites within the context of his Corinthians and Timothy passages, though they poorly translate malakoi as effeminate? And in Romans, the activity takes place within the context of idolatry (noting the transition words between changing concepts of paganism).

      All this to say, if we cannot condemn all heterosexual acts based on rape (see Gibeah) how can we universally condemn all homosexual acts based on contextually bound incidents (like Sodom) that would be equally wrong for heterosexuals?
      :) I eagerly await your rebuttal.

      • David L. Moore

        I don’t want to condemn anyone. I don’t want anyone to be condemned. Who doesn’t ever experience temptation that should be resisted?! In Jesus Christ there is both forgiveness to blot out our sins and to give us power to turn away from them and to live a new life. It is important not to rationalize evil desires to the point of deceiving ourselves. The grace of God is offered, and those that inherit salvation embrace it.

        • R.A.

          Thanks for taking the time to reply, Mr. Moore. I’m sure life has you running crazy, as it does me.

          I’m sorry if the wording of my post suggested that you were being judgmental or condemning. Such was not my intent. I was talking about the biblical context, not your words.

          I agree about Christ’s redemptive power, and I hope and pray that his precious blood will take care of all my shortcomings, be they physical sins or theological faults.

          I assure you I’m not trying to rationalize anything. I’m only seeking to test my understanding of the Word to see if my interpretation holds up to scrutiny. Trying to rightly divide and all. :-)

          I think the question remains, however, as to if all same sex relations are wrong or does the Bible condemn them within certain contexts in which writers saw them occurring. I think it’s also important to note that the writers are all under the assumption that all men are primarily women-oriented. Homosexuality as a concept did not exist until the late 1800s, so in some ways, we read our understanding back into the text if we are not careful. But in turn, Paul would make the assumption that 99% were physically able to carry on a physical relationship with women (barring eunuchs, which opens up a whole other can of worms). When Paul sees a man committing a same sex act, he’s most likely seeing it within one of two contexts: idolatry or adultery. And careful examination of those passages that do contain same-sex acts does reveal an idolotrous

          • R.A.

            Sorry. Wouldn’t let me edit that last post.

            The passages do seem to contain idolatrous context, and thus the context is condemnable, but it doesn’t reflect on the relations themselves.

            Again, sorry if my last post came off as accusatory. That certainly wasn’t my intention.

          • David L. Moore

            Some of the things that have fairly recently been published concerning Christianity over against homosexual practice amount to tendentious exegesis. An effort toward objectivity is helpful if one wants to allow his or her life to be influenced by the Word of God.

            The first chapter of Romans does mention both idolatry and homosexual activity. But it is an error to think that the homosexual practices mentioned are considered sinful only because they were practiced in the context of idolatry. Paul’s main point here is that substituting idolatry for the worship of the Creator naturally leads to perversions of sexual practices in both women and men. Paul does not make his reasoning explicit on this, but one might think that he sees the creation of humans as male and female who may perpetuate the race through heterosexual union as a manifest part of God’s plan, and so those that stray from worshipping the Creator logically tend to stray from the Creator’s purpose in terms of sexuality. He presents the homosexual activities as obviously incorrect and “against nature.”

            What Paul says about these and other forms of sin make clear that the expectation for Christians is to live holy lives, leaving behind the practices that had to do with their way of life before knowing God: “And such were some of you: but ye were washed, but ye were sanctified, but ye were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God” (1Cor. 6:11).

          • R.A.

            I always strive to be objective, I assure you.

            I’ll try to be as succinct as possible.

            A) What textual evidence do we have in Romans 1 that suggests we can remove homosexuality from its context of idolatry to universally condemn it?

            B) Paul’s use of “natural” really can’t be parallel to “sinful” in meaning. He could not have used the word “unnatural” in tantamount terms to “sinful” since he later says God acted unnaturally by grafting us Gentiles into the tree of faith. Also, Paul uses the same terminology in regard to men having long hair. He calls it unnatural for men to have long hair. Thus, we cannot say the term unnatural in and of itself must connote sinfulness.

            Continues in a second post.

          • R.A.

            2) You seem to appeal to Natural Law for the sinfulness of homosexuality if I read between the lines correctly. I believe the idea of Natural Law has some logical faults.

            A) Natural Law depends on God’s intent for creation. This is something we don’t know. Just because the creation account(s) depicts the beginning in a certain way doesn’t mean we have a glimpse into God’s intended purposes. True, we see what God creates, but that doesn’t mean we see his ultimate intentions. We can only surmise at those. What did God intend for the appendix? The jury’s still out.

            B) For Natural Law to really be a law, it must be pervasive in its scope, applied equally to all creation. But it’s only really appealed to in sexual contexts. The problem with that approach is that it ignores God’s intent for the rest of creation. If we applied it as a universal law, then we would be breaking it by using the penicillin-mold for pharmaceutical purposes instead of allowing it to simply decompose matter. But if someone suggests maybe God intended for penicillin to be used as a drug, then we run back into the problem listed under letter A.

            And suppose we allow the Law to stand despite the lack of all-inclusive scope, we (rightfully) condemn sexual conduct between adults and thirteen year-olds despite the fact that the body is physically capable of such conduct at that age. If we insist on Natural Law, then we must explain why this is an exception since, naturally, all mechanics are in working order, despite the context of a “marriage”. But if we (rightfully, in my opinion) insist that such a relationship is immoral, then we’ve made an exception to Natural Law. And by definition, laws must have no exceptions. Therefore, we’ve already showed we’ve applied the Natural Law selectively, thus we’ve violated its status as a law, rendering it outside of a universal rule.

            C) Natural Law just isn’t biblically based, in my humble opinion. It’s something we’ve read into the text. Can we find evidence for it? Sure. But to do so, we have to operate on the belief that it’s true before we ever start reading the text, and I don’t think that’s the best exegetical approach for interpreting the scripture.

          • David L. Moore

            Dear R. A.,
            Many of your arguments echo ideas that were presented by the late John Boswell, a prominent Yale professor and historian. It might be helpful for you to look into some of the critiques of his writings on religion and sexuality. Richard B. Hays, who is most widely known for his book on New Testament ethics, has written a monograph addressing specifically Boswell’s exegesis of Romans chapter 1. It is both a well researched and well reasoned paper. Under the title, “Relations Natural and Unnatural: Response to John Boswell’s Exegesis of Romans 1,” it is available in PDF format on the Web. I put the web address in an earlier post, but –perhaps because of the URL in the post– it never appeared in this thread. You should easily be able to find the paper by a Google search. I hope you will give it a read.

          • R.A.

            I actually haven’t read Boswell’s work, though I’ve heard the name. I’ll check out Mr. Hay’s paper. Thanks for the recommendation.

          • R.A.

            Hey, Mr. Moore,

            I read the article, and I was a little disappointed that Mr. Hays treats creational morality as a priori assumption without establishing it in scripture. Also, he didn’t address many of my questions in regards to the logic of creational morality. If you have time, I’d love to hear what you think about said points.

            I hope all is well. God bless.

          • Josephine Evans

            Hmm… well, If i am not mistaken the bible tells us all of Gods intents and purpose that we need to know.

          • VD65

            Now tell me what other apostles had to say about it? It is really odd that someone who really wasn’t an apostle gets venerated in such a way. A man who clearly persecuted all of them just because he says, I had an epiphany.

            I find it very odd and most of the New Testament deals with him and not really anything Jesus is known to say. Most of it written a very long time afterward via word of mouth. I have a hard time taking anything Paul had to say seriously. Constantine meddled into many things so it’s hard for me to believe that what people believe now approximates anything Jesus had to say. The bottom line is you are told not to judge so the debates should stop, the judgments should stop and let God worry about all of this because he is the one in charge and not us.

        • Guest

          Strange, wouldn’t let me finish or edit that last post.

          To conclude, the passages contain an idolatrous context. That was my argument.

          Again, I’m sorry if my tone felt accusatory or suggestive that you were judgmental.

    • Mark

      I’m glad you brought up such a valid point. The condemnation “du’jour” of the Bible is that it “promotes slavery”. However, as you said, that slavery was not racially based, was not for life (unless the slave wanted to remain), and slaves were not de facto less than human. Slavery was a place in the economic system that allowed people who had lost everything to pay their debts. A slave could work/buy his way out. And a slave did have rights. And, while we’re speaking of OT practices, everyone forgets that a Year of Jubilee was commanded, and on that year the slaves had to all be set free! They could go back to their own lands and start again. The slavery in America was nothing like that. We kidnapped/bought people from another country where they were doing us no harm nor warring with us, we forced them here in the most inhuman conditions possible, then we declared that they weren’t quite human, they weren’t “like us”. So the whole slavery argument against the Bible depends wholly on ignorance. Just as using the Bible to support homosexuality is.

      • VD65

        Yes but what you are talking about is not really Christianity. Even the early Christians didn’t call themselves that. You are debating on Judaism. The Old Testament is Judaism and Jesus said he didn’t come to change the Law which was Judaism. The first five books of the Old Testament. Some of the things Christians go on and on about don’t make much sense and the fact they always quote Paul. Is he more important than Jesus because I can assure you that a lot of what he said was not what Paul was teaching and why he conflicted with the original apostles.

        • Rebecca Behrent

          Let me remind you that without Judaism we would not have Christianity – for the latter is built on the former.

  • theophilus166

    It’s a mistake to compare homosexuality to the treatment of women or slaves in scripture. As William Webb points out in “Slaves, Women, and Homosexuals,” the treatment of women and slaves is very different from the treatment of homosexuality. Simply put, the treatment of slaves and women gradually changed and improved over the course of scripture. Both women and slaves were granted rights in the Old Testament that didn’t exist in surrounding cultures. By the New Testament, we see women as disciples and apostles, and we see Paul encourage Philemon to accept his slave Onesimus as a brother rather than a slave. Homosexuality, however, is universally condemned. It’s condemned in the Old Testament and the New Testament, and it’s condemned in cultures where homosexuality was an acceptable practice. There’s simply no movement towards equality with homosexuality, as we see with the issues of slaves and women.

    • Robin Huang

      If God think it is OK for homosexual. He would created Adam 1 and Adam 2. Not Adam and Eve. Sympathy to all homosexuals and lesbian. You are are part of the world and have every right to be here through no false of yours. But in the bible it seems they have different concepts.

      • VD65

        But we know there were already people. When they were cast out of the Garden they met them. It’s a moot argument because you’re not suppose to make the judgment on others. You use the rules for yourself. Not to try to tell others how they should live. It is for you to be the example, but never to judge others.

        • Rebecca Behrent

          LOL! That’s just your “judgment” of things!

    • Bartholomew_1

      “By the New Testament, we see women as disciples and apostles, and we see Paul encourage Philemon to accept his slave Onesimus as a brother rather than a slave. Homosexuality, however, is universally condemned. It’s condemned in the Old Testament and the New Testament…”

      Right, which is why history ended a few decades after the New Testament was complete…

    • VD65

      All of what you are stating isn’t relevant because what you are told is not to judge anyone. Therefore you step over the boundaries of what you are allowed. You try to walk in the shoes of God. This whole argument should not be happening in the first place. Let God handle it and make all the judgments rather than project your own views of what anything means in the Bible; an iffy book at best.

      • 21stNow

        John 7:24

      • Rebecca Behrent

        I think you’re confusing discernment with judgement. Besides – everyone makes hundreds of judgments everyday about everything and everybody. You’d be lying to say otherwise! You choose to associate or not to associate with individuals or groups of people. And you make that choice based upon – Ta Da! – a JUDGMENT that you’ve made! Otherwise, you’d be BOTH a progressive and a liberal, BOTH an atheist and a Christian, BOTH a racist and a non-racist – you see how stupid it is to try and convince everyone that you aren’t judgmental yourself? If you didn’t use discernment (or judgment) in your everyday life, you’d soon end up dead – for you’d accept a ride from everyone who offered you one, and sooner or later you might end up in the hands of a killer! Not to use your “discernment” or judgment is to walk around with a head full of air with a dippy smile on your face. Not using your “judgment” about things and people is usually referred to as being “stupid”.
        Now, as far as the Bible is concerned, why do you call it “judging” when someone is merely “quoting” things that are in the Bible? “Quoting” Bible passages is passing along information, which you can accept or reject. (And that would be based on a judgment you make as well – just like the “judgment” you’ve made in your entire paragraph that people should not “judge”!). See the irony in that yet?

    • Pedro

      Lies! Its condemned universally??? Is not even condemned in nature.

      • Rebecca Behrent

        Where in nature (animals) have you seen the act of intercourse actually COMPLETED anally? “Humping” is one thing – completed anal intercourse quite another! Besides, we were created to have dominion over nature, not be on the same level as nature (animals). Animals act by instinct, not intellect, and do not know right from wrong. Mankind is on a unique level in the world, and God expects us to act in keeping with his Word!

        • Pedro

          Romans 1: 20
          Ever since the creation of the world his invisible nature, namely, his eternal power and deity, has been clearly perceived in the things that have been made.
          Genesis 1:31
          And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, a sixth day.
          Isaiah 6:3
          Holy, holy, holy is the LORD of hosts; the whole earth is full of his glory.
          Psalm 19: 1-4
          The heavens are telling the glory of God; and the firmament proclaims his handiwork. Day to day pours forth speech, and night to night declares knowledge. There is no speech, nor are there words; their voice is not heard; yet their voice goes out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world.
          Romans 1:18-20 (NET)
          For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of people who suppress the truth by their unrighteousness, 19 because what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world his invisible attributes – his eternal power and divine nature – have been clearly seen, because they are understood through what has been made. So people are without excuse.

          Yes we are more than animals, but still nature was created by God, and homosexuality does exist on nature (not just the humping you are saying – go do some research before talking), so if God allowed homosexuality in nature, and nature speaks about God’s glory, I think you can make the math…

          • Rebecca Behrent

            Listen – I’ve done the research. There is no example in nature where copulation between two animals of the same sex has actually been COMPLETED, save for one – sex between male locusts. And you know what that results in? Death for both. That tells me that if it’s “natural”, the purpose was to eliminate a certain number of male locusts. Look THAT up.

          • Pedro

            Third time writing this comment as it seems its been deleted every time!
            No, you have not done the research. Lying is a sin and you should know that by now.What is completed??? If I don’t complete (whatever that means) I am not gay??
            Amazing how you guys use one example and magically forget about all others! Less bias would be good!
            And to prove that you did not do any research just search: homosexuality in nature in Wikipedia! look THAT up

          • Rebecca Behrent

            By “completed” I mean the sexual act is actually completed. If you are simply attracted to the same sex, yet never have same sex, then I suppose you are still mentally and emotionally a homosexual. However, those who don’t have sex are usually referred to as “celibate”, whether homosexual or heterosexual in their attraction. Wikipedia is not a reliable source for information. Anyone can put information on Wikipedia, whether true and valid or not.

          • Pedro

            And since when there is such thing of celibate on animals??? You don’t make any sense! Wikipedia IS a reliable source of information because there is a thing at the end called REFERENCES that you can check! Please don’t make a fool of yourself anymore! Seriously you cannot argue with me because you are NOT right! You should talk more with God and ask him for INTELLIGENCE cause so far you seem to have very little. Sorry if I offend you but seriously people using God’s name in such a wrong way like you make me angry!

          • Rebecca Behrent

            Pedro, really? Do you even understand the definition of the word “celibate”? From Merriam Webster Dictionary: “celibacy … 1: the state of being unmarried; esp: abstention by vow from marriage 2: abstention from sexual intercourse” Celibacy does not apply to animals because animals operate from instinct and cannot choose to be celibate or not.

            It’s pretty obvious I don’t make sense to you because you’re unable or unwilling to read and understand what I’m saying – it’s certainly not because I’M stupid. People who are stupid aren’t usually able to earn a college degree like I have. And I think you’d better go back and read what the Bible says about homosexuality, and quit listening to those who are twisting or trying to CHANGE what it actually says!

            Many people are busily “rewriting” or “re-translating” the Bible to fit “modern times” (which doesn’t exist for God, btw). There is great danger in this!:

            The Bible says in several places not to add
            to his words, how can this be true when other books were
            added afterwards?

            What it means is that one is not to add their own words to
            what God gave. Each one is a specific book that was complete that man was not to
            add or subtract from. The Bible is a collection of all 66 books that are of the
            Old and New Testament.

            Deuteronomy 4:2 “You shall
            not add to the word which I command you, nor take anything from it”(also
            Deuteronomy 12:32). The reason God is so adamant on this is because “The
            entirety of Your word is truth” (Psalms 119: 160).

            “Add thou not unto His words, lest He reprove thee, and thou
            be found a liar” Proverbs 30:6.

            In our day there is the
            belief in “progressive revelation”
            that originates from outside the Word. What right does anyone have to teach what
            is not in Scripture as if it is Scripture? False teachers do not want to submit
            to its original intent, so they do not seek what Scripture actually (exegesis)
            means, instead, they conform it to what they want it to mean (isogesis). They
            will look to another source as their authority because they are not under God’s
            authority. This is why Paul admonishes us in 1 Corinthians 4:6: “not to think
            beyond what is written” (exceed or go past). Why? So pride will not have an
            opportunity to operate and puff us up. It is pride that makes one participate in
            false doctrine which makes him spiritually destructive to himself and others who
            listen to him.

            The reason God is so adamant on
            this is because “The entirety of Your word is truth” (Psalms 119: 160). Proverbs
            30:5-6: “Every word of God is pure; he is a shield to those who put their trust
            in Him.”

            If we look at the context it
            saying “Every word of God.” God is stating for MAN not to add to his words.
            Adding does not only mean additional words, but can also mean changing them to
            mean what they do not. When you add new words as equal to Scripture you are
            really taking away from Scripture.

            In the
            book of Revelation which is prophecy completes the Bible, just as Genesis began
            the Bible, it states “For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the
            prophecy of this Book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall
            add unto him the plagues that are written in this Book: And if any man shall
            take away from the words of the Book of this prophecy, God shall take away
            his part out of the Book of Life, and out of the holy city, and from the things
            which are written in this Book” Revelation 22:18-19.

            Of all the books
            Revelation has the strongest warning as it has to do with the end of world
            system and the coming of the Lord to restore righteousness

          • Rebecca Behrent

            My previous comment was, once again, deleted. I guess some think the route of CENSORSHIP is the way to go when you don’t like what someone is saying. And at the same time my comments are deleted, it seems to be okay to leave up your comment above in which you do little but call me stupid instead of offering any facts in rebuttal to my arguments. People who resort to calling others ugly names usually do so because they have no argument of any substance to offer.
            Now, as to “celibacy”. Celibacy involves a HUMAN BEING’s conscience choice to abstain from sexual relations, whether they are straight or gay. Celibacy does not apply to animals, since they operate on instinct and cannot make an “intellectual” choice to abstain from sex. Nowhere did I say that animals can be celibate in the same sense as human beings. They might not engage in sex because they are ill or because it isn’t mating season (such as for deer). But animals are highly driven by instinct – human beings by intellect.
            As a college educated woman with a degree, and having written numerous academic papers during my days in college, I certainly know what references are. I’m simply saying anyone can post on Wikipedia, and I don’t think it’s always the greatest source for information. Why not go to the references themselves instead of Wikipedia? And, if you’ve been paying attention, I have posted many things which include direct references. Perhaps that’s why some of my posts get deleted – someone doesn’t like it when I have actual FACTS to back up my arguments.

          • Pedro

            First its not only your comments that are deleted. Second I know what celibacy means.
            Third I will call you ignorant and stupid because that’s what you are. The only person here not presenting arguments is you! You come and start speaking that animals do not complete, so I not only presented references that say very much the other way around but also asked what is completed and you come and speak about celibate! So I wonder how does an animal does not complete by choosing to be celibate! And what do you do? Ohh! Lets just spill here some information about celibacy (because I’m so smart) like I had any doubts about its meaning!
            And then I talk about the references on wikipedia and what do you do? “I have a degree, I know exactly what references are, you are the one who does not present arguments, and wikipedia is not reliable….” Bla Bla Bla. But actually seeing what the information was? No, that’s for people who actually think and like to be informed! I wonder how you got your degree! By blinding yourself to any other information that your head could not understand instead of really researching about it?

            So next time you comment please do not spam information that actually is not related to anything instead of actually answering to what people post and ask.

          • Rebecca Behrent

            Good heavens you are so confused and lack such an understanding of what I’m saying! I truly don’t know if you have the ability to understand what I’m saying at all! And that you continue to point to animals as the guide for how human beings should behave TRULY displays your complete lack of understanding of the vast differences between them! One (perhaps last) time I will point you to an article (with references, of course, at the end of it) that you will hopefully READ so that you can understand why comparing mankind to animals is simply false and ridiculous! Please educate yourself!:

            The Animal Homosexuality Myth

            by Luiz Sérgio Solimeo

            (I won’t post the link because whenever I do that, my post seems to get deleted. But type the article name and author into your search and it should come up).

          • Pedro

            I’m confused? Your stupidity and arrogance has no limits! I never told that animals behavior should be an example to us Humans, what I said was related to the arguments that homosexuality is unnatural, which is not as homosexual behavior occurs in nature.

            Biological Exuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity by Harrold, Max
            Animal Homosexuality: A Biosocial Perspective By Aldo Poiani, A. F. Dixson

            And many articles about homosexual practices in animals

          • Rebecca Behrent

            As I thought you would respond – you didn’t read the article. I give up. You just don’t get it – too bad you want to remain in blindness and ignorance. There is no “homosexuality” in the animal kingdom as you would define it. Here is really what’s happening, as explained in this small piece of the article (which I referenced in my above post): “. . . The same is true for allegedly homosexual acts among animals. Their sexual
            drive and instinct to mate is extremely strong and can be confused. When animals
            are in heat, they release pheromones that trigger an instinctual behavior by
            males. According to an expert in the field, this inborn impulse is so strong,
            that it can “instigate a frenzy of mounting behaviors. Even other females who
            aren’t in heat will mount those who are. Males will mount males who have just
            been with females [in heat] if they still bear their scent…And males who catch
            wind of the estrus odor may mount the first thing (or unlucky person) they come
            in contact with.”[4]
            I’ve even seen a dog mount a couch. One might have good taste in sofas, but I
            doubt it’s so good that your dog is sexually attracted to it. The poor pooch is
            confused.”
            Because human beings have intellect and free will, what is natural in the animal world is, as you agree, NO GUIDE for the behavior of people.

          • Pedro

            A little bit tired of replying you, you are the one that does not know how animals work and humans work. Whether you like it or not humans are animals too. There is no homosexuality in animal kingdom but there is heterosexuality???
            As usual you give one example and forget all the others in nature.
            And its not only dogs that can get arousal from objects, I leave the sentence here if you do not get it its your problem.
            To finish this discussion the point I was making is that homosexuality (as sexual interaction between two males or females species) exists in nature so when you say that is not natural its a LIE.
            If you want to reply please spare me of lies.

          • Pedro

            A little bit tired of replying you, you are the one that does not know how animals work and humans work. Whether you like it or not humans are animals too. There is no homosexuality in animal kingdom but there is heterosexuality???
            As usual you give one example and forget all the others in nature.
            And its not only dogs that can get arousal from objects, I leave the sentence here if you do not get it its your problem.
            To finish this discussion the point I was making is that homosexuality (as sexual interaction between two males or females species) exists in nature so when you say that is not natural its a LIE.
            If you want to reply please spare me of lies.

          • Rebecca Behrent

            If you want to use animals as a guide to how humans should behave, then people should be killing and eating their children, as that happens quite often in nature. Sorry – but we are not on the same level as animals – we are higher beings, and should act like it as God intended!

          • Pedro

            Some of the energy you are spending on replying to comments you should spend talking to God, I believe would be more fruitful.
            Still I don’t see how two men or two women living in a marriage is not as God intended. And talking about what God intended is impossible for us humans to achieve, and also read this:

            If any one thinks that he is not behaving properly toward his betrothed, if his passions are strong, and it has to be, let him do as he wishes: let them marry — it is no sin. But whoever is firmly established in his heart, being under no necessity but having his desire under control, and has determined this in his heart, to keep her as his betrothed, he will do well. So that he who marries his betrothed does well; and he who refrains from marriage will do better. (1 Corinthians 7:36-38 RSV)

          • Rebecca Behrent

            You are simply twisting God’s word, as Satan has, to justify whatever sin(s) you want to continue doing. If God’s plan was for two men or two women to “marry” (no such thing), then it would have been as clear as in Genesis, wherein God created Eve for Adam, not Eve for Mary or Adam for Steve. The quote above applies to what God has defined as marriage – a holy thing ordained by God between one man and one woman, period. It is only impossible to discern God’s purpose because you reject his Word! The reason you reject and twist his Word is because you want to continue in your sin!
            As far as replying to your comments, if you’re going to continue to comment in this forum, I have every right to reply to whomever I want to. Or do you think you can reply to me but I’m not supposed to reply to you?

          • Pedro

            First do not compare me to Satan.
            Second God created Adam and Eve to be partners and not a justification to marriage, in fact most likely Adam and Eve before sinning did not procreate at all and there was no need to create new families. Saying that God create Adam and Eve and not Adam and Steve is ridiculous and putting words on the Bible that are not there!
            And if you want to keep condemning people with the Law I shall give you the Law, woman! Go back to your husband cause your arguments bore me to the bones. Stay away of things you have no authority to talk about and learn your place! I recognize you no authority cause you have none. filthy mouth keep it to you. And if anyone here is being used by Satan is you woman! Stop commenting here about God’s will, while you are in sin

          • Pedro

            Again comment deleted! Yes I am insulting her because she is indeed stupid and I will continue to call her stupid because thats the TRUTH!

            Your definition of completed does not make any sense in animals!!
            Wikipedia IS a reliable source cause you have a thing called references in the end that you can check! But I guess you intelligence does not allow you to check.

          • Rebecca Behrent

            You completely misunderstand what I’m saying. I am talking about the completion of same-sex intercourse in animals versus humans. I guess I’ll have to be graphic to get the point across! For example, a male dog will often “hump” another male dog, but I have yet to see a male dog’s penis actually enter the anus of another male dog – thus the act of intercourse IS NOT COMPLETED. And I have not read where same-sex intercourse is actually completed in any of the animal kingdom, save locusts – who DIE after same-sex mating. So for human homosexuals to say it’s okay for men to have anal intercourse because it happens in nature, I just haven’t found to be true! It doesn’t happen in nature! And even if it did, Mankind and the rest of the animal kingdom were designed differently and for different reasons and purposes – Mankind has dominion OVER the animal kingdom – we are not on the same level. Our behavior is to be in line with the way God created us to function physically, mentally, intellectually, and spiritually. God does not have the expectations for animals that he does for us – we are of a much higher order compared to God’s other creations.

  • Tim Loyal

    I pray you come back to Jesus or find him before your preach again. If you had the Holy Ghost you would not be able to bear false witness against Jesus Chirst.

  • BuddySteve

    I would agree with you EXCEPT that majority of the gay men I know or have met are filled with immorality and are more about getting their nuts off than having real (non-sexual) love for one another! Just about every gay man I’ve come across, even though he may call himself a christian, is so immoral and sometimes hateful, it makes Satan look like an angel! Even though I am gay myself, I do think you’ve got this one wrong and being gay is a sin. There is nothing holy about it in God’s eyes which is why majority of gay men doesn’t want to have anything to do with God and choose to deny he even exists.

    Even though I believe being gay is a sin, I don’t believe I’ll be going to hell for it because I have accepted Jesus as my lord and saver. I have felt the holy spirit’s presence when I was an older teenager. I still feel it from time to time but not as much anymore because I haven’t been living a holy life like I should. We are not perfect! Jesus was perfect for us so that we could be saved from damnation. I don’t think God would throw us believers into hell without a good fight for us! Remember, God so loved the world, he gave his only son to be slandered with so much pain to pay for what we’ve done and our ancestors have done or didn’t do.

    Just remember, we are all like little infant baby’s in a nursery trying to figure things. We won’t know the true reality of things until we die. The only game being played here is to believe that Jesus died for you so that you may be saved from damnation. Doesn’t matter what sexual preferences you have or who you’ve murdered or the lifestyle you live. If you ask Jesus into your life, he will change you! Being gay is NOT a factor if you accept Jesus as your savoir, period!

    • kentuckywoman2

      Why does it surprise you that there are “idolators”, “God-haters/atheists”, and fornicators in the gay community? After all, do not these same people exist in the heterosexual community? Every descriptive word you used against gay people can also be used against straight people! It’s just that in the heterosexual culture, sexual depravity has become so completely absorbed and ingrained into the fabric of life that no one thinks about it anymore.

      You know, it wasn’t all that many years ago that the homosexual “culture” was still “in the closet.” Unless one was part of that community, little was known about the day to day lifestyle of the average homosexual. Even when a relative was “odd” (as we used to call them), their “eccentricities” were ignored and NEVER talked about.

      Since the 1980s, in particular, the homosexual culture has been coming out bit by bit, into the mainstream consciousness. We see glimpses of the gay lifestyle more and more, until it’s now become pretty well full-blown. And guess what? It’s not that much different than the heterosexual culture! Sexuality is sexuality, regardless of the gender of the people involved. There will always be committed, monogamous relationships, there will always be the “whore-mongers”, there will always be the sexually depraved and the sexual predators, etc.

      I’m a heterosexual Christian…but even I don’t think homosexuality is necessarily a sin. I think it’s more an accident of birth. Homosexuality, transgenderism, and heterosexuality ALL originate in the womb, as a matter of biology. It is how we’re “hard-wired” to be. During the gestational process, the right amount of hormone/s at precisely the right time/s are required if one is to have a body that “matches” the mind. When it goes haywire, we see homosexuals, transgenders, hermaphrodites, etc. Did you know that, by default, ALL fetuses begin as FEMALE? I never knew that until I went to college. Knowledge is power, including the power to understand how things come to be. For the majority of gays, they are simply “made” that way. As a Christian, I cannot accept that God would condemn a person for simply being who he/she is…not when there is no willful choice made to be that way.

      Likewise, I cannot believe that God would condemn any person for living the way he or she was “made” to be. It would be a cruel God indeed who would say that if one was born heterosexual, one was allowed to adopt that lifestyle…while if one was born homosexual, one was not allowed to live that lifestyle, thereby being condemned to live a life not of one’s own choosing.

      Did you know that the majority of human beings are actually bisexual? Studies have borne out this conveniently ignored fact. Most people choose to not to act on that, but many do. And the reason many people do not have sexual relationships with people of both genders is usually because of a social more and a perceived religious taboo. But where in the Bible does it talk about bisexuality? Nowhere, that I know of.

      As far as homosexuality in the Bible, that’s a complicated issue, to be sure. But I can say that there are roughly only 7 verses in the entire Bible that address homosexuality at all – and even then, most of them address other sins as well, and don’t single out homosexuality out alone. If we were to take all of them literally, not many people would escape any of these “sins.”

      I’m not making light of sin – rather, what I’m saying is that I think it’s important to remember that we are saved by grace, as you aptly pointed out, by Christ’s sacrifice. Christians are NOT under the yoke of legalism, i.e., the rules and laws of the Old Testament…if we were, then Christ died in vain and THAT is a sin that God describes as “a dog returning to its own vomit”.

      Certainly, homosexuality has been a part of every civilization, every tribe, on planet earth since recorded history, regardless of what name it was called. I think most Christians make a huge mistake when taking the Bible literally, by applying what was written 2000 to 6000 years ago, to today’s cultural context, and completely ignoring the cultural context in which it was written. What were the social mores of the time?

      One example might be slavery. Nowhere in the Bible is slavery condemned! Not even Jesus condemned slavery; in fact, He basically said that slaves were to be good servants to their masters and masters were to treat their slaves well. Uh huh. And how does that work today? These biblical verses were used by Christian slave owners to justify slavery for centuries. And yet, there is no legal slavery in the world today, because we realize that our cultural mores do not accept it. Likewise, women are no longer expected to be silent, without a voice, either in politics or in the church or in the “public sphere”….even though there is biblical precedence for it.

      Gay or not, our prime directive as Christians is to love God and each other. We are not to judge others; that is God’s domain and right, only. We are not to punish, but to forgive and have compassion. There are so many things the Bible tells us to do that we, as Christians, completely ignore, but instead, we focus on the things we want to do, for which God has given no directive. Go figure.

      • Scottie Pimppen

        So you read in the bible that homosexuality is a sin but yet you dont think its a sin and claim to be a christian? lol all i can do is shake my head because the devils doing a good job using you as his puppet

    • tracie

      A sin is a sin so I agree, Thank God we are under his grace.

    • Josephine Evans

      Well, as a Christian I don’t understand where you are coming from. we are all sinners and have immoral natures so i don’t know why you think it is okay to condemn LQBTS people. second I understand where you are coming from. being Gay is not a ticket to hell, neither is lying or stealing. however being a christian is not a free pass to sin, no matter our relationship with God, otherwise repentance is pointless and so was Jesus’s Death.

      • Rebecca Behrent

        It is not okay to condemn LGBTQs – just their sins. Many here seem to think that because Christ died for our sins, we are now somehow given a free pass to sin! Nothing could be more twisted in their thinking! The idea that you can freely sin and somehow still be in God’s will and grace is just plain WRONG.

    • Pedro

      Maybe there is such immorality in gay community because we Christians just put them outside of our churches! Maybe if we were to welcome them, and preaching the benefits of monogamy and sex in marriage, maybe there would be more gays with an healthy relationship with God!
      And the immorality you see in gay community is no different from the general teenager out there who doesn’t know Christ. Most of my friends had sex before marriage, live with a partner, had sex with multiple people and are mostly hetero! Is no different, all need God’s love.

      • Rebecca Behrent

        I’m sorry if churches reject you. But on the other hand, do you come into a church expecting them to accept your sin? Are you unwilling to turn from the homosexual lifestyle? If so, then no, do not expect to be welcomed. There is an old saying, “church is a hospital for sinners”. ALL sinners – not just those who are sexually immoral. All liars, cheaters, adulterers, fornicators, etc. who WANT to turn from their sins, who WANT to repent and seek forgiveness – this is the reason you go to church! To repent, seek forgiveness and follow Christ! If this is not what you want to do, then you are out of God’s will – and there is no reason to go to church in the first place!

        • Pedro

          The problem is that you think homosexuality is a sin and I don’t. Go search on your Bible very carefully about it, study and pray on it. Plus you are very wrong on many levels. If you don’t want to repent don’t go to the church??? So what you are condemning more than half of the planet??? And what is the church??? You talk to much but you clearly don’t know nothing about the Bible! So if you condemn me I say now in the name of Lord that you are going to hell!

          • Rebecca Behrent

            The problem is that many LGBTQs will not accept that a church has a right to tell them that what they are doing is a sin in the eyes of God and they will not let them continue in their sin and be a member of their church. It is one thing if you come to the church and say, “I want to repent of my sin and change” and quite another to come to a church and INSIST they accept you continuing to commit a particular sin without any intention of changing at all! That is the time you should look for a church that will accept you continuing in your behavior!(Such a church is in apostasy – a falling away from the true Word of God) But I must warn you, that anyone who insists on continuing to willingly and knowingly to commit a particular sin (or sins) without ANY intention of stopping and repenting to follow the way of God and Jesus Christ should not be surprised on judgement day if he says to you, “Depart from me, I never knew you.” Matthew 7:P21-23 ESV : “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

    • Rebecca Behrent

      Homosexuality is a sin like adultery, fornication, lying, stealing, murdering, etc. and is a burden for some to contend with just as other sins are burdens for others to deal with. Homosexuals who believe in Christ and are trying to turn from engaging in their sin are no different than someone who is drawn to stealing all the time but are trying to turn from that sin. When engaged in, both are sins. It’s not a sin that you may be born with a propensity towards homosexuality any more than someone may be born with a propensity towards stealing (Kleptomania). In fact, we are all born with a SIN NATURE! We all have sin burdens to bear! It is part of the spiritual battle we are forced to engage in as long as we live on this earth! The Christian homosexual’s battle against sin is NO DIFFERENT than every other Christian’s battle against sin! God loves us all, and if we will turn to Him and His Son, Jesus Christ, He will help, save and restore us according to His Will!

  • Brandon Roberts

    look homosexual marriage is not real marriage in the eyes of god but john 3:16 says god so loved the world he sent his one and only son to die for our sins. not just straight people the world and look homosexual sex is a sin not same sex attraction kay

    • kentuckywoman2

      Are you high? Hard to understand what you’re saying. How about rewriting it using proper sentence construction and good grammar, including punctuation? I’m just saying…..I can’t understand what you’re saying! Are you saying same sex attraction is not a sin but homosexuality is? That makes no sense!

      • Brandon Roberts

        look what i meant. was if a boy feels romantic feelings towards another boy not a sin. but the sex thing well i think it may be. actually i learned that the original bible may not have condenmed being gay. and i’m saying jesus loves everyone gay straight and bi. and iv’e softened since this kay

        • kentuckywoman2

          I don’t think there’s much difference between romantic love and sexual love. After all, the Bible says that’s if you have even a thought about something, it’s the same as doing it. I wouldn’t sugarcoat it by allowing yourself to think that romantic love is somehow more pure or okay, as long as the physical love is kept out of it. I know that’s a popular misconception, but I think it is a misconception. I’m not sure what you man by “original bible” – again, it’s fallacious thinking to somehow sugarcoat the issue by allowing oneself to believe that we don’t have the “original”, therefore what we do have is suspect. That’s simply untrue. I do believe Jesus loves everyone, gay or straight, as far as that goes. Jesus never said one word about homosexuality in the Bible, so all we have to go on are the verses in the O.T. which Christians are not bound by, and the verses in the N.T. which came mainly from Paul.

          • Brandon Roberts

            true what i meant by original was the hebrew and greek texts. and i think the original church leaders mistranslated some stuff and that’s a good point that there’s not much of a difference between romantic and sexual love. and i honestly don’t have objections to homosexuals. i’m still on the fence about same sex marriage i know that we’re not bound by the o.t anymore and i know jesus loves everyone

          • kentuckywoman2

            Agreed – using both Greek & Hebrew concordances and lexicons are always the best way to actually study what was written. Orientalisms are very useful, as well, and I think greatly underutilized. There’s not many books on them, but they are extremely helpful when considering the context of biblical writings. It’s virtually impossible for a Westerner to understand Eastern culture today, let alone thousands of years ago – but if we are to truly understand the Bible as it was written (or as near to the oldest manuscripts as we can get), it’s crucial.

            I’ve been on and off the fence for gay marriage, too. As I said, I originally allowed for civil unions, because I do truly believe that everyone should have the same legal rights, as a point of law (Constitutional law, not Biblical law). But there’s really not much of a difference between a civil union and a marriage, save one is generally performed outside a church with no religious attributes, and the other is usually a religious ceremony. Realistically, though, many heterosexuals get married by JPs and even in those Las Vegas wedding chapels, so do we consider them any less married? No.

            Marriage is essentially a legal contract, and it spells out certain rights and responsibilities, although no one takes too much notice of the responsibilities of a marriage contract anymore. But because marriage is a legal contract, and not merely a religious ritual, my feeling is that it belongs in the realm of law, first and foremost, rather than religion. No marriage is “legal”, even if performed by a priest or a pastor, etc., unless the proper paperwork is filed with the State.

            Because of that, I have come to the conclusion that marriage is a legal contract which may or may not be “blessed” by some religious ritual, but that it is essentially “legal” in nature, and not religious. Therefore, gays should have the right to enter into any legal contract that any other human being is allowed to enter into, because I believe we are all endowed with the same inalienable rights and entitled to the same Constitutional rights.

            My feeling is that if a church or pastor wishes to perform a religious ritual of marriage between two consenting adults, then that is something additional to the legal contract of marriage – however, no pastoral official, church, etc.,should be forced to perform such marriage ceremonies. There is precedence for that within the Catholic Church, for example, in that it will not unite two people in marriage who are not both Catholics, or who have previously been married to other spouses.

            For that reason, I believe gays do err when they attempt to force people to do such things as provide a venue for their wedding, reception, or even bake a wedding cake. I do think it should be the choice of the business, on religious grounds. Although, I think there’s a difference between what one sells, e.g., wedding cakes, floral arrangements, etc., that are already made and available for sale to the public…and “contract work”, where the business contracts with the couple to bake a cake, create floral arrangements, etc. In the first instance, I do NOT believe the business has the right to discriminate and must sell their product/s to anyone who wishes to buy them. BUT, in the case of contract work, I believe the business has the right to refuse to enter into a business contract if it so wishes.

            So, in other words, while I’d prefer to live in a culture that is more traditional, once gays came out of the closet, so to speak, it was a done deal. They deserve equal rights. As far as religion goes, it’s really between them and God, as far as I’m concerned. Each person must be responsible for their own spiritual walk and cannot walk the path of others. That is not only spiritually unhealthy, but it is wrong, from God’s point of view, I believe.

          • Brandon Roberts

            yeah me too i’m still unsure. but i won’t judge people for what they do usually (just in murder cases where they actually did it) and i think even jesus said some are born gay so i can’t really discriminate people for the way there born

          • kentuckywoman2

            Apparently you haven’t read the Bible. Jesus Himself NEVER uttered one word about homosexuality, one way or the other. Furthermore, there is no verse in the Bible that says anything about anyone being born gay. There are only about 7 verses in the entire Bible that refer to homosexuality in any way…but none talk about WHY people are gay or being born that way. And again, Jesus never referred to homosexuality one way or the other. He never talked about it.

          • Brandon Roberts

            yeah i shouldn’t get all my facts from youtube and it really does not matter whether they’re born that way or not i should really study the bible more thanks for correcting me bye

          • kentuckywoman2

            Oh, YouTube has its merits, and there’s a great deal of good information there. But if you really want to know what the Bible says, you’re best off grabbing at least one Bible, a Hebrew & a Greek concordance and lexicon, and “studying” it. There’s a wealth of biblical studies out there! Best of luck to you. :-)

          • Brandon Roberts

            thank you for the well wishes and i’ll get too it

          • Josephine Evans

            Well, we are also born sinners, should we open our eyes and hearts to those who are born liars (all of us), YES! but we should not give them a pat on the back and pretend it is okay. We would not be celebrating a Murderer “coming out of the closet” (I am NOT saying that homosexuals = Murderers, but God sees every sin as equal) nor a lier, we would not make lying a good or accepted thing, Why is homosexuality different?

          • Brandon Roberts

            actually that’s a really good point. and i’m not saying we should just accept sin instead of trying to change it. and yes in the bible it says homosexuality is an abomination to god but that’s old testament now while i still believe homosexuality is a sin we should be trying to bring them to god not driving them away. and yes in gods eyes sins are sins. and no homosexuals are no different and some of the greatest christian heroes were once some of the worst sinners st.paul killed countless christians before converting c.s. lewis was basically like richard dawkins of his time. and yes jesus said judge justly but he was referring to the sin the sinners themselves. well i don’t know them well enough to jump to conclusions

          • Rebecca Behrent

            You and I are pretty much in agreement and have basically said the same things.

    • Rebecca Behrent

      I get what you’re saying, Brandon. I’m sorry Kentuckywoman2 doesn’t.

      • Brandon Roberts

        it’s ok she seems nice enough. & i personally think it’s not a christian’s job to accept sin but to treat the sinner as anyone else.

  • raz4u

    Like all such articles, irrational and at the same time very funny.

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  • Anonymous

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    • Rebecca Behrent

      No offense -but you write and sound like a Chinese person with a very bad English accent. Makes the testimonials look fake.

  • Anonymous

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    • Rebecca Behrent

      Voodoo and Christianity do not mix. You should advertise on another site.

  • R.A.

    These voodoo doctor bots do realize that their posting on Christian forums, right? Good gravy.

  • sarahocarroll

    Ok, here is my question: I know where I stand on this issue, but want to make sure that my ‘leaning’ one way or the other is more than that… I want to make sure that it is a conviction based on Scripture. So I have been trying to educate myself, in different ways, but one way being learning the claims of those both sides of the issue & how they back up their claims scripturaly. Adam, you make a claim that due to misinterpretation of the scriptures, we may someday look back on this time in society the same way we look back in history when slavery was social acceptable & even endorsed by some religious leaders of the time. Through that claim you liken homosexuality to slavery. And as a result you imply that homosexuality is ok. But in addition to that implication, you claim that homosexuality is ok because, much like slavery was not ok, scripture backs that up. However, you neglect to validate your point through scripture. Is this something you do in a later article or in your book? I am just assuming that one cannot make a claim that scripture is being misinterpreted without giving examples & proof of that misinterpretation, accompanied by Greek & Hebrew word studies & translations, etc. I would love to read something of yours that expands on this article…. Thanks!

    • R.A.

      I’m reading a book right now called Bible, Gender, Sexuality by James Brownson. He seems very logical and treats scripture reverently. So far, it’s been pretty interesting.

      • Calvin Bonner

        @disqus_nkO5UPS8vc:disqus I respect your erudition and appreciate your openness to dissenting dialogue, but because of what has been called “the first person bias of the participant” (a soldier on the front line will give the most sincere but inaccurate account of how a war is progressing) I question if you are truly seeing this issue objectively.

        I say same sex relationships are unnatural because they are antithetical to the life cycle. A proponent of same sex relationships may make the same claim about heterosexual relationships, but such claims are obviously baseless and reactionary. Heterosexual interracial relationships cannot be used as a relevant analogy because life can, and daily does, arise from such unions.

        I do not have the background in genetics to label homosexuality an unfavorable “mutation” as some critics of same sex unions do, but it seems fair to view these practices as at least an aberration–they discontinue the life cycle and negate one of nature’s most central physiological drives: reproduction and dissemination of our genetic material. This may be best understood through the “Everyman test,” a practical application of Immanuel Kant’s Categorical Imperatives. If every single person immediately adopted homosexuality what would the fate of humanity be? In contrast, heterosexual unions are the bases for every birth on our planet, save asexual and nonsexual reproduction in lower life forms.

        The “choice” to be heterosexual is actually a deep seated physiological drive which ensures our survival as a species. The decision to be gay runs counter to our viability, no matter how many people pursue that course. I of course can not relate to seeing another male and being “turned on”, but if this is the case for some and it actually is physiologically driven it is still antithetical to life. I do not align myself with those who argue that a propensity toward homosexuality is a birth defect or mental illness since I am neither a geneticist or a psychologist and such unqualified opinions run the risk of pushing us towards a slippery slope from which the majority may one day propose to “fix” all dissenters with drugs, therapy or forced “reeducation.”

        What is apparent however is that from a faith-based perspective insinuation of homosexual acceptance into orthodox, scriptural Christianity is pure innovation and patently dishonest. While singling out homosexuality out as an especially abhorrent sin while ignoring other Biblically prohibited acts is equally dishonest, the fact that gays seek to justify their actions against the scriptures is what differentiates homosexuality from other scripturally proscribed acts.

        I again reiterate that each individual is responsible for their own soul, and I don’t claim a direct link to the Mind of God. Moreover, I still silently support gay marriage and would actually vote for it on a referendum out of respect for freedom of expression and the personal right to pursue happiness. I will never again openly advocate for it however because it is becoming clear that the most vocal proponents of same sex marriage are actively repressing the rights of others, and through bullying and repressive tactics worthy of the most hateful of bigots, are attempting to undermine religious institutions who are well within their rights to reject these beliefs which run counter to literal interpretation of Scripture.

        • R.A.

          Hey, Calvin, thanks for the reply. I hope you are doing well, and I hope I respond coherently since I’m a wee bit tired today. And if anything I say comes off as harsh or offensive, please blame it on my tiredness and not on actual emotion.

          Questioning someone’s objectivity (or intent for that matter) is futile in my opinion for several reasons: A) We can’t see into peoples’ thought processes. B) It’s a sort of ad hominem attack. C) It ultimately has no bearing on the logic or truth of an argument. I might be a totally dirt bag, but that doesn’t mean my argument is false or illogical.

          Unnatural is a debatable term. We can get into semantics if you like. But just because a relationship lacks the ability to produce progeny doesn’t make it unnatural, by my understanding of the term. As I pointed out in an earlier post, is a heterosexual relationship where both members are sterile unnatural? So I guess we get down to personal interpretations of a word. Either way, I don’t believe the ability to procreate says anything to the morality of a relationship.

          The point with interracial unions was to demonstrate how it might not be ethical to label particular unions disgusting based on personal feelings. I can understand and respect if you think they are harmful, but disgusting wouldn’t be the best terminology in my humble opinion.

          Dr. John Corvino notes how the Everyman test isn’t exactly functionally sound. In the analogy he makes, if every person were a priest, then life wouldn’t continue either. Does that make being a priest immoral? Besides, this makes the assumption that reproduction is a moral good and imperative. Since I hold a religious view, I disagree since Christ and Paul were both, as far as we know, childless. And if we accept that Christ was without sin, then his lack of children had no bearing on his moral status.

          Is it an aberration? Possibly. But this says nothing to the action of trying to live the best possible “normal” lifestyle by finding a partner. If you consider homosexuality a handicap, then same-sex partnerships are simply a homosexual’s best attempt to compensate for their handicap, correct? (Not that I think homosexuality is a handicap.)

          And if homosexuality did result as an evolutionary emergent trait, then it obviously has some part to play since it’s still within the gene pool and wasn’t eliminated through natural selection. Homosexuals aren’t necessarily direct descendants of other homosexuals; heterosexuals have children who happen to be homosexual, too. (Which, as I’m told, often comes as quite a shock to parents who “didn’t raise [their] children that way”.) I’m of the opinion it’s somewhere either in the epigentic realm, as recent research shows, or latent genes. That said, many psychologists believe homosexuality is primarily biological since so-called reparative therapies have abysmally low success rates, less than 1%. Such groups curb sexual activity but don’t change the attraction itself. The leader of the largest ex-gay group, Exodus International, recently went on record to say he’s never met anyone who was actually able to change their sexuality. Whatever it is, choice it ain’t, it seems.

          Regardless, I agree that we can’t assign any specific cause to any sexuality since we don’t even know what causes people to be heterosexual. Even then, I don’t find this to be a good argument one way or the other in the moral realm. Innate-ness doesn’t make it moral.

          When you say pro-gay, or affirming, theology is dishonest, it makes the assumption that pro-gay interpretations intentionally distort the “clear” meaning of scripture.

          I’ve done much studying, reading, contemplating, and praying to reach my understanding of what scripture says about the subject. I’ve looked at both sides of the argument. Some pro-tradition arguments are more convincing than others, and the same is true for the progressive interpretations. But in my studies, the major question I’ve come away with calls into question the context of homosexual behavior as mentioned in scripture and the biblical culture’s understanding of what same-sex acts were. In my studies, the context of same-sex intimacy is equally condemnable if we substituted in heterosexual intimacy. Also, I believe there is no mention of lesbian intimacy within the Bible. If such is true, then the issue of consistency makes me ask if the writers of the “clobber” passages saw male same-sex intimacy as interwoven with some other condemnable practice. I have more detailed reasons as to why I believe such, and I would be glad to discuss those with you if you’d like, but I’ve assaulted your patience long enough, if you’ve managed to slog through all this thus far.

          While I do think that the progressive theology is more likely true than not, I cannot claim absolute truth. After all, I’m working with a quite fallible brain, and while I do the best I can to arrive at truth as God would have me, I can always be, and probably am quite often, wrong.

          I agree with you that some people take their beliefs too far. We’ve got to find some way to respectfully allow both sides their personal freedoms. Both sides are guilty of clamoring for someone to get fired for their views. Both sides are guilty of being overbearing in their push to have their voices heard. On those facts, I’m with you, my friend. We’ve got to do better in that area.

          I’m sorry this post is so long, but I have thoroughly enjoyed this discussion, Calvin. You have some thoughts for me to ponder. Hopefully, I’ve said something in all this mess that is a nugget for thought. If you’d like to continue the discourse, I’d love too. Helps keep my acumen honed. Haha.

          Have a great evening.

        • Pedro

          So what you say is that men and women were made to procreate like animals, so maybe there is not even need to marry! I mean you just need to have sex with some woman and get her pregnant so we can disseminate our genetic material?? So you think that Adam and Eve in Eden were made simply to have sex? Wrong! Even Paul says that it was better for men to stay in celibate! I dare to say that maybe it was better for gay to be hetero but if you can’t marry a man and stay in that marriage.

  • eddie muuduri

    If i saw those people who are doing this i will surely put them in a bedroom and they must come out with a child .TO those countries who or people who are in this evil , THE question is if all people do these how do we multiply,,TO THE president of that country ,,,,,,do what your father do for your to be there

  • Mark

    I find that “Christians” who start to support homosexuality have either
    never been truly Christian at all, are ignorant because they don’t study
    the Word in prayer, OR they have discovered someone near and dear to
    them is homosexual (sometimes themselves). Each and every one of us is responsible for
    studying the Word (the Bible even says the Holy Spirit will teach you)
    and obeying it. Not just listening to it second hand by anyone who
    thinks they “got it right” and they have a pulpit or a forum. With all the new technology, anyone can believe anything and put it out there as if it was valid. Pray,
    people, and study, and the Holy Spirit will guide you when you are seeking humbly and putting the Creator first.
    Don’t waste time with these “Christians” who so enjoy being accepted by
    the world. We must love homosexuals, liars, gossips, drunkards, etc.,
    but that doesn’t mean we support their behavior-in fact, it means the opposite. It means you lovingly encourage the sinner to turn from his drinking, lying, homosexuality, etc. If he listens, you’ve won him over. If he doesn’t, he’s in the hands of G-d yet and will be dealt with, and we are to avoid this person, not harm them. I find homosexuals are becoming increasingly demanding: first, they wanted to make homosexuality legal in all states, then they wanted tolerance, then they wanted to legally marry and they want support from everyone. If you don’t support them, you’re a “homophobe”. They throw that word out all the time to purposely intimidate. This is NOT just about “same sex attraction”-there is many destructive things with homosexuality, just like there is with drunkenness, lying, gossiping, etc. The Lord gave us instructions for a reason, and they are all for our own good. Read the “Gay Manifesto”, its online.

    • Pedro

      You are the one that needs to talk more with God! When I arrive in Heaven I shall rejoice in his presence! You? I am not so sure….

      • Rebecca Behrent

        Why Pedro! Aren’t you now “judging”? Tsk, tsk.

        • Pedro

          Why is what I ask! Why are you still replying to my comments? Tired of reading your pointless comments so please stop replying, specially to comments wrote 2 months ago. No I am not judging I am giving him an advice that I give to you also. Some of the energy you are spending on replying to comments you should spend talking to God, I believe would be more fruitful.

    • kentuckywoman2

      Following your logic, I have to say that there are just as many destructive things – if not more – about heterosexuality, as there are about homosexuality. Heterosexuals cheat, lie, commit adultery, break up marriages, cause divorces, abandon children and spouses, spread sexually transmitted diseases, engage in oral and even anal sex, fornicate without the benefit of marriage, and does one thing homosexuals generally do not do – cause unwanted pregnancies and abortions. So just what are those destructive things, again, that homosexuality brings?

  • r bruce

    You are right about one thing when you said, ” I believe that in the years ahead an increasing number of Christians,
    not only progressives, but also conservatives, will read the Bible’s
    passages regarding homosexuality as all Christians today read the
    Bible’s passages on slavery.”

    The Bible also says that in the end days things will be as they were in the days of Noah. Matthew 24 :37, also Luke 17:27. Why as in the days of Noah, is it not because man has become evil in the eyes of God. Society has, and will continue to choose to go against God until he reacts, so yes you are right and wrong at the same time.

  • MythreeSons AndtwoDaughters

    I have been waiting for an excuse to have an affair or to commit adultery and it was right there in front of me the whole time. I should have seen it when Solomon had so many hundreds of wives. So the many references in the Bible permitting more then one wife over rides that one should not commit adultery? I am sure a pedophile loves his little boy like you and your wife love each other…….. I can’t believe I let myself get sucked into this conversation. Let me help you with a new title. “When Christians Get it Wrong They Pray for Forgiveness.” or “Woe to Those Who Lead Others Astray” or “Many False Preachers Will Lead You Down the Wrong Path”. Adam I will lift you up in my prayers.

    • Bartholomew_1

      Wait, do you know that polygamy and adultery are not the same things? Adultery was a sin punishable by death even in the time of Solomon, David and their harems of wives, and yet it was not by David’s harem that he became an adulterer. Have you never read the story of David and Bathsheba? David took the wife of another and adulterated that man’s marriage, thus making himself an adulterer, i.e. one who adulterates a marriage/makes a marriage impure. Adultery does not mean simply having sexual relations with more than one person. Even in the New Testament, it says that a pastor should have but one wife, which implies that his parishioners could, in theory, have more; if polygamy itself were sexually immoral, then every man, pastor and parishioner, should have been the husband of “but one wife”.

      Adultery is the breaking of one’s marriage vows or another’s. If you treat another man’s wife as if she were your own, then you adulterate his marriage. If you sleep with an unmarried woman, then you cause her to commit fornication. I’m unsure what the implications of that would be for your own marriage: adultery of your marriage or fornication that affects you alone.

      As for your point about pedophilia, say what? The pedophile loves the boy? Since when? The kid is there screaming, crying and telling him no, or obviously scared–what part of that sounds like love to you? Is that your picture of homosexual love? You do know that homosexuality is not prison rape, right?

  • Klara Williams Sofiyko
  • Harry Lisle

    If what the pastor writes should apply, then it seems to me that all scripture can be rationalized to our personal needs…

    Oh – maybe that is how the Mormons, how the Jehovah Witnesses, and yes even how the Westboro
    Baptist “church” members think they are honoring God…

    In short, the discipline of hermeneutics must be applied… Carson said “A text without a context is a pretext for a proof
    text.”… Meaning, we can take single scripture verses by themselves w/o context of the verses around them and twist them as we need/want them to apply
    to our lives… We must apply clear scripture as the dominant scripture against the less clear/understood scriptures…

    I hold to the inerrancy of the bible, just NOT the inerrancy of man’s understanding/interpretation. The bible does not promote slavery, however It certainly does
    acknowledge it and speaks of it… Anyways that is not my main point. I am more concerned that future generations will see ours as the one generation that lost the truth of the Gospel; a generation that appeals to their subjective whims rather than the objective morals of the Christian faith.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if Romans 1:26 through 31 will be removed from the bible someday…

  • Trucker Stacey

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  • Rebecca Rook

    The Bible teaches Christians to love others. And does it not also say we are all sinners and no sin is worse than another.
    So if you hate homosexuals than you are breaking one of the 10 commandments.

  • Great Grace

    Simply put, gay acts are wrong simply because men and women were biologically created for one to have the other. Let’s not get societal morals involved in the Word. If one is gay and chooses to live the lifestyle, he or she will have to deal with the consequences thereof on earth. However, if he or she is saved, a spot in heaven is already in place. The real issue is being unsaved. Our job as Christians is to spread the gospel (good news) which is that grace is available to ALL who accept it. Our job is not however to condemn others thereby decreasing the spread of the gospel. Word to the wise if you don’t fully understand something, don’t speak on it… it gives Christians a bad rep.

  • JoeDirte

    All this back and forth arguing of what the bible says. Who the hell cares. Gods do not exist. Stop letting a human created bronze age book tell anyone how to live their life or about the origins of man. Follow your heart and most importantly logic and you will find at the right answers. Thankfully more and more humans in 1st and 2nd world countries are not taking what scripture says as literally as they once did. Oh and my statement does not just apply the Judeo-Christian faiths. It goes for all religions that use a scripture and the idea of damnation if you don’t follow it to mold or should I say manipulate the minds of their followers. Amazing how we humans are supposed to be so smart and yet so many of us are still so dumb as to be so easily tricked into continuing to believe all this religious bullsh*t, especially considering our knowledge of life has grown so much since these scriptures were written.

  • Top Tiger

    I am not one to preach to anyone. But I know what the Bible teaches on homosexuality. The new testament scripture is what we, living as Christians now in these times, are to follow because Jesus became the ultimate sacrifice for us all and now he is “the way, the truth and the life. Nobody comes to the father except through him.” (John 14:6) The Old testament is not dismissed by this a not important, it is just that we should live as the new testament scripture dictates. So, with that being said, Romans 1:26-32 CLEARLY says what God feels about homosexuality. Marriage is a creation of God between a man and a woman (also his creation). To destroy the sanctity of marriage is to destroy his creation.
    Also, this is not a hate message against homosexuals either. I don’t judge homosexuals. I just relay the message from the Bible. The Bible does that as stated before in CLEAR text in Romans 1:26-32 (any version) among other places. I love them regardless of how they feel about me but I do not agree with how they live because it is against how my Lord created them. It kills me to see other Christians sending out this type of message because it is against God’s word and you are leading many down a destructive path. I hope that people reading this article will also read the comments. I see many that are standing up for His truth. Hopefully people will do the research for themselves and see that this is blasphemy. God bless!

  • Dumez Gracy

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    • Rebecca Behrent

      Please take your advertising elsewhere.

    • Rebecca Behrent

      You are so ridiculous – trying to pretend you’re German, but your Chinese accent comes through. LOL!

  • Rebecca Behrent

    I’m sad the moderator of this site chose to delete so many of my posts. But then again, if it is Mr. Hamilton doing so, I can understand, as he has been deceived and does not understand that while you should love everyone, that does NOT mean accepting their sin and overlooking it completely. That is defying God and his Word.

    • Guest0757

      Everything is a sin in Christianity. How many are you guilty of? Gluttony? Greed? Lust? Sloth? Wrath? Envy? Pride? If so, you will ROT in hell!! And anyone who overlooks that and accepts you is defying God!! Therefore you deserve no respect because you are a sinner!!!! Hypocrisy, hypocrisy. If you can’t overlook something as silly as being gay, then I sure as hell can’t overlook you committing any of the deadly sins. They are by far worse. They’re deadly. So before you go around passing judgement on others, maybe you should take a look in the mirror yourself.

      • Rebecca Behrent

        Yes, I am a sinner – like everyone else. But when you accept Jesus and ask forgiveness for your sins, they are covered by his blood shed for us. When you accept Jesus, you become a NEW CREATION in Him. I would sincerely doubt that someone who, fore example, is a murderer but has accepted Jesus, asked forgiveness of their sins, yet continues to murder, has REALLY accepted Christ into their lives. Part of repentance is that you become a CHANGED person and turn away from sin. Go to the site Gospel Translations and you will find this very good explanation concerning repentance: (Only part of it addressed here): “. . . You see then, sinful man stands as a rebel against God’s government and authority. This is why our Lord Jesus came on the scene preaching, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand” (Mat 4:17). He commands every sinner to lay down his arms of rebellion and hoist the white flag of surrender to enter the Kingdom of God. In other words, a sinner has to change his mind about sin.

        This is exactly what it means to repent: a change of mind about sin and about God, which results in turning from sin to God.

        The Biblical vocabulary for repentance is truly rich. The theme of repentance is found throughout the en-tire Bible and its idea is expressed even when the word itself is not used. In the Old Testament, two Hebrew words, the verbs nacham and shub, are often translated as repent. The Hebrew and Aramaic Lexicon of the Old Testament by Koehler, Baumgartner, Richardson, and Stamm says nacham means “to be sorry, come to regret something, to repent” as in Job 42:6, “Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.” In their Commentary on the Old Testament, Keil and Delitzsch remark, “Nacham is the exact expression for metanoeo, the godly sorrow of repentance not to be repented of. He repents (sitting) on dust and ashes after the manner of those in deep grief.” Regarding shub, which means “to turn,” the Theological Wordbook of the OT says, “The Bible is rich in idioms describing man’s responsibility in the process of repentance. Such phrases would in-clude the following: ‘incline your heart unto the Lord your God’ (Josh 24:23): ‘circumcise yourselves to the Lord’ (Jer 4:4); ‘wash your heart from wickedness’ (Jer 4:14); ‘break up your fallow ground’ (Hos 10:12) and so forth. All these expressions of man’s penitential activity, however, are subsumed and summarized by this one verb shub. For better than any other verb it combines in itself the two requisites of repentance: to turn from evil and to turn to the good.” They conclude by saying, “To be sure, there is no systematic spelling out of the doctrine of repentance in the OT. It is illustrated (Ps 51) more than anything else. Yet the fact that people are called “to turn” either “to” or “away from” implies that sin is not an ineradicable stain, but by turning, a God-given power, a sinner can redirect his destiny. There are two sides in understanding conversion, the free sover-eign act of God’s mercy and man’s going beyond contrition and sorrow to a conscious decision of turning to God. The latter includes repudiation of all sin and affirmation of God’s total will for one’s life.” . . .”

        • Guest0757

          If God found homosexuality and transsexualism so abominable then he would not create people that way only to condemn them for it. Repenting to God for being gay is saying “Lord, please forgive me for being myself.” The attraction a gay person feels for the same sex is no different than the attraction a straight person feels for the opposite sex. Asking a gay person to repent and make themselves be straight is no different than asking a straight person, such as yourself, to be gay. Do you think you would be able to force yourself to be attracted to the same sex? I’m guessing the answer is no. That is exactly what it’s like when bigots condemn gay people and tell them to stop. They can’t help their orientation any more than you can.

          And in regard to what you said… Murder is a bit of an extreme example, but are you trying to tell me that you have never sinned again after having asked God for forgiveness? I very highly doubt that.

          • Rebecca Behrent

            Pedophiles could make the same argument. Or those who practice bestiality, or adultery, or those with Kleptomania (a compulsion to steal) or those who like killing or raping or cheating people or any myriad number of things that people, at their TRUE core, would like to be able to do, if only the rest of society would allow them to do so. They, too, could make the claim that they were “just born with these “urges” or inclinations, so society should let them “be themselves”. The truth is, if you really read and understand the Bible, we are ALL sinners – if not in act, then in our hearts. We are all born that way! We are born with a fallen nature! Was that our fault? Maybe not – we could blame Adam and Eve, from which everyone henceforth inherited their fallen natures. The Bible very plainly states, “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.” Romans 3:23. Here is an excellent article from Bible Study Guide, part of which I quote here because it states things better than I could: (Go to .org)
            “. . . Life is like playing organized sports. A coach does not always tell his team how great they are and that no one could ever beat them. The coach emphasizes weaknesses in addition to strengths. A coach renews his team at every practice improving upon short comings and increasing the team’s level of play.

            In Col. 3:10 renewed is in the past tense but denotes continuous action. We continuously renew our minds, putting away sin and striving unto perfection. Paul says to Christians: “. . . since you have put off the old man with his deeds, and have put on the new man who is renewed in knowledge . . .” (Col. 3:9-10). “And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind . . .” (Rom. 12:2).

            “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” (Rom. 3:23). There is not one person on earth who is perfect – all have sinned. “Sin” is a verb meaning: to fail to attain or maintain a set standard, miss the mark, do actual or moral wrong; violate the will of God. “Fall short” is a verb meaning: fail to attain; and “glory” is a noun meaning: radiance, glory, honor, fame.

            Who here has perfectly hit the mark of righteousness before God? Which one of us has attained to God’s glory? Which one of us does not need God – His grace, mercy, and love?

            I must be mindful of the fact that I am a sinner and that I fall short of God’s glory. No, not that I knowingly commit sin every day, but that I never attain to the glory of God.

            The apostle Paul says that he is chief of sinners (1 Tim. 1:15). So, who here can say that he is better than the apostle? Should we not all say: “I am chief of sinners”? Is there any difference between me and anyone else? Paul says: “For there is no difference; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” (Rom. 3:22-23).

            But herein lies what I call Christian pride. Those who believe that they are better than others become haughty, proud, and boastful. They believe that their sins are forgiven and that they have attained to a spiritual plane unattainable by most people. But with this attitude one falls because of pride. Paul says: “Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall” (1 Cor. 10:12).

            The first principle is: Seek God. The second principle is: Renew Your Understanding of Self as Falling Short of the Glory of God. From a humble and sincere heart I seek to serve God to the very best of my ability. I realize that I fall short of God’s glory and that I could never have a home in heaven except for God’s grace. Hence, I renew myself day by day, seeking the things which are above where Christ is sitting at the right hand of God, putting to death the flesh that I may serve God.

            All of this is in hope of the coming day in which those who are found faithful to God shall be immortally arrayed in His glory – corruption putting on incorruption; mortality putting on immortality. It is in this hope that we rejoice (Rom. 5:2) awaiting the revealing of Christ on which day we will be revealed with Him in glory (Col. 3:4). . . .”

          • Guest0757

            Now your comparing gay and transgender people to pedophiles, rapists, thieves and murderers? You’re f**king insane.

          • Rebecca Behrent

            Pedophiles certainly consider their urges “normal”. They have used every argument they can think of to justify their urges, including that they were “born that way”. Go read their site! They are angry at the LGBTQs because you won’t include them in your movement. Talk about judging and drawing lines! No one is allowed to draw lines when it comes to you and your behavior, but you draw lines for others? And you think that’s fair and “reasonable”? My point about all of it, which you of course completely missed, is that we are ALL sinners. Whatever our sin, when we are truly saved, we turn from what we were before and follow Christ. We take the word of God (the Bible) seriously and we follow His word to the best of our abilities, which means we try not to WILLFULLY sin.
            But hey, do what you want. The real point of my discussions here is that you should consider that if you try to shut down churches and religions you don’t agree with, you are being tyrannical! And if we have a government that goes along with that “agenda”, it too is tyrannical. It would be like Christians forcing their way into every LGBTQ meeting, insisting that you let us take over and run everything! My advice is that we let each other have the freedoms to our own consciences, beliefs and practices. You leave us alone, we’ll leave you alone, because it is pretty obvious we are not going to agree. But instead, many of you talk about doing away with Christianity and Christian churches. I find it quite alarming, particularly when there is only one religion (not Christianity) who still hangs and stones and beheads people for what THEY consider sin. Why do you not focus on them? I’ll tell you why – you’re afraid to. Christians are the much easier target.

          • Guest0757

            You’re comparing apples and oranges. A person who has love for someone of the same sex has nothing to do with a pedophile molesting four year old children. You’re a f**king lunatic. Get a grip.

          • Rebecca Behrent

            No, I’m not comparing apples and oranges! I’m trying to get through to you that people always try to justify whatever sin it is that they wish to indulge in, even if it means twisting the words of the Bible to make it fit what they want to do! The Bible IS very clear regarding homosexuality, sexual immorality in general, and all other sins! And make no mistake – the day is coming when it will be “as in the days of Noah”, when mankind will be indulging in all of the same sins as back then! Every dark thing that the heart can conceive of – which includes pedophilia, bestiality, incest, murder, theft, adultery, human sacrifice (already here – it’s called abortion) covetousness, idol worship, etc. – in fact, people have been and ARE doing these things; we are merely going to see these sins become more and more accepted and indulged in. So the lines that everyone draws regarding morality will all be crossed eventually, with all kinds of sin being justified and accepted in society. This is one of the signs of the end of days.

            Man continues to believe he is wiser than God. Man believes he is “evolving” when in fact our fallen nature has not changed one iota from the time when Adam and Eve were driven from the Garden. 1 Corinthians 1:20: Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

          • KPC

            hahah Thank you! While it is not funny how hateful and ignorant some people can be (looking at you Rebecca) I love your reaction “you’re f*king insane.” It truly is a tragedy to see loving and caring individuals compared to a pedophile. gay and transgender people hurt NO ONE….pedophiles, rapists, and murderers? They hurt everyone!

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  • guest

    If we take tbe bible literally there would be lesss children in the world. Why…. because there are several and I mean several in the bible that talks about put children to death. I hear a lot of people say you are not to take away any word of god out of the bible . So, if this is true then should’nt we be allowed to put to death are kids if the show disrespect?There are also verses talking about eating the flesh of our children.The bible was written 2000yrs ago plus over 300 other books were left out because MAN decided that it was not to go into the bible. I say this… people should love who they want to love. It doesn’t unravel anyone else universe. Stop judging other people .

    • Pedro

      I would like to know where are those several, several passages! And the Biblical canon was well established by people who actually research a lot about the subject and who probably have more qualifications to speak about it than you

      • Guest0757

        Leviticus 20:9 “If there is anyone who curses his father or his mother, he shall surely be put to death; he has cursed his father or his mother, his bloodguiltiness is upon him.”

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    • Rebecca Behrent

      This isn’t the place for your ADVERTISING. We are discussing Christianity, which does not believe in spell casters and other occult practices you apparently support.

  • Seb Crawford

    It’s all very well arguing about the subject but let me make one thing plain! Arguing is not loving at all! Neither is killing someone out of prejudice. Neither is seeking the demise of other human beings! It repulsed me that ‘Christians’ have such a degraded belief despite contrary commandments stating the exact opposite expectation for a Christians behaviour! It is for God to judge not you! Christians should NOT be concerning themselves with that which simply does not conform to the Golden commandment; Love The Lord your God with all your heart, might and soul and Love your neighbour as yourself! This isn’t rocket science! To do anything contrary to this is to completely disregard God and behave as though you yourselves are God! It is God that works in a mans heart that which is his will, it is he that leads people to repentance so why are Christians taking on his role? Besides there are clearly many biased mistranslations in the Bible but these are all designed to teach to one day understand that it’s all about Love and not what man has written about their perceptions of him.

  • ROBIN

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  • Dwayne W Barry

    Adam, I agree that homosexuals can love the Lord as much as any other believer. What I have learned is that homosexuality is one of two things. It is either a choice or a demonic spirit. I never used to believe in deliverance (casting out demons from Christians) but being in the ministry going on two years now, I know for a fact that homosexual spirits of perversion are everywhere and can be cast out of people. If it’s not demonic then the person just needs to understand the Bible better and choose not to live the lifestyle. The demonic issue explains why Christians can be interested in the same sex, don’t know why and still have no desire to do so. It’s just a demon..get into deliverance brother and you will see just what I mean…hope this helps.

    • Guest0757

      “Deliver yourself from evil!! Let us cast out the demons from within you!!” You sound like a schizophrenic. Being gay is no more of a choice than being straight is for you or I. People are attracted to whoever they are attracted to. Did you ever “choose” to be straight? Or were you always just attracted to the opposite sex? That’s what it is like to be gay.

      • Rebecca Behrent

        The seven deadly sins were a creation of the Catholic church, and are not found in the Bible. All sins separate us from God. It is the person who claims to have salvation, but shows otherwise by refusing to turn from sin who is, in fact, not saved or, at the very least, is in grave danger of not being saved. When you are saved, you become a “new creation”, no longer desiring your old life of sin and you begin instead to walk in the ways of Christ.

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  • Michael

    Wow. Really disappointed in your theology, Adam Hamilton. Let me begin with Genesis. Satan’s first attack on man was asking, “Did God really say…?” That is what’s happening so prominently in our world today. Before going on, let me say that it doesn’t matter how certain topics make you or me “feel.” God is the Creator and the Supreme Authority and His words and actions are 100% just, whether fallible man agrees or not. How ignorant to believe otherwise.

    You mention a “handful” of verses that speak about homosexuality being unacceptable to God. Why go on?! Would not ONE verse be plenty?! In James 1 and Malachi 3, we’re told God does NOT change. But you’re saying He changes His principles…? That would lead one to assume that God isn’t perfect and got it wrong the first time. Correct?

    We see in Leviticus 18 where homosexuality is in the same category as sex with animals. That’s how disgusting homosexuality is to God! And let me just say this…To disagree with that is not to disagree with me, but to disagree with God. I’m not bringing my own opinions like you have done. I’m leaning on God’s Word and not on my own human understanding. Once again, it doesn’t matter if this “hurts your feelings” or not, because that’s equating an almighty, perfect, infinite God to fallible, human intellect. Yet, 1 Samuel 15 tells us that God is not a human being.

    You’re twisting God’s Word, Mr. Hamilton. You’re “assuming” that just because those who are practicing homosexual behavior are present in church and seemingly after God’s heart, that homosexuality can’t really be all that wrong…anymore. That is direct ignorance of 2 Timothy 3:16. Apparently, your argument is that the “handful” of verses describing homosexuality as unacceptable to God isn’t really enough to be God-inspired or God-breathed. Romans 12:2 says we should not conform to this world, but you seem to be following your own opinion on this topic rather than God’s perfect Word.

    Back to my opening statement..

    Mr. Hamilton, your flawed theology and twisting of God’s word is exactly how satan inflicted this world in Genesis by asking, “Did God really say…?” You’re teaching future generations that the Word of God has a shelf-life and that in a few generations, certain topics and God’s view of them (which is the perfect view, by the way) become irrelevant.

    • Guest0757

      People ARE animals. We’re evolved to a higher state of being. I’m not saying it’s okay to have sex with animals. That’s pretty disgusting. I mean unless you’re into that kind of thing… ew. Anyway, some animals get intimate with different animals. Some animals also engage in homosexual behavior with other animals. Are they going to hell too? Or are you one of those people who believes animals don’t have souls too?

      • Rebecca Behrent

        So you, like anyone, draw your lines about what is and isn’t disgusting, yet you insist no one draw lines with regard to your behavior.

        • Guest0757

          What’s all this about MY behavior? You don’t know me, so stop acting like you do. FYI, I am friends with many LGBT people, and they are good people.

          Lots of people do things that are disgusting. I don’t go around spewing hatred at them for it. I think it’s absolutely vile when I see people not wash their hands after going to the bathroom. They are spreading germs and getting other people sick. Do I think they are going to suffer eternal damnation for that? No. Everyone draws lines and I could care less what you think is disgusting. But that gives you no right to spread hatred, nor is it very Christian of you.

          • Rebecca Behrent

            I’m speaking generally, but also to you. And your last line just shows that YOU ARE DRAWING LINES! You prove my point – but you are too blind to see that! Or do you think you are SO morally above everyone else, that only you and people who think like you should be the only ones drawing lines? And by drawing lines, I mean that YOU have your own definitions of what’s Christian, what’s moral, what’s immoral and/or disgusting – but I and others like me are not entitled to decide for ourselves? That’s the problem which I’ve been trying to state over and over again. I’ve been in enough forums now regarding LGBTQ rights and the message many of them are sending is that they are drawing a line – they TELL me they are working to get LAWS passed that would greatly restrict our religious freedoms – and if they could, they would do away with them ALTOGETHER! They would abolish Christianity if they could! Many would love to see so-called “hate speech” laws passed – tell me, what defines “hate speech”? Once people start going down a road like that I don’t see an end to it! “Hate speech” laws are just censorship laws. They threaten our freedom of speech. And if they threaten MY freedom of speech, they will eventually threaten the free speech rights of everyone, including LGBTQs, at some point in the future. But many LGBTQs would like to see them applied everywhere, including in churches, where THEY would like to tell pastors and priests what they can and can’t preach from their own pulpits! The LGBTQs do not think that going down a road like that will ever endanger their freedoms. But I maintain that once we start curtailing one freedom, we will begin (and already have, as far as I’m concerned) curtailing and even doing away with other freedoms. LGBTQs will find their freedoms in danger as well – and I want to emphasize, I am not talking about freedoms that have anything to do with sexual preferences, but freedoms in general, that apply to everybody! We’ll all end up with a tyranny that we’ve imposed on ourselves! What could be more stupid than that! But that’s the direction I see this country headed in. So, let’s forget trying to make one side agree with the other side EXCEPT that we must agree that we must uphold freedom, not pass laws that impose on other peoples’ freedom! Otherwise, LGBTQs will just be another group helping to lead everyone down the path to tyranny and we will all eventually find ourselves under the thumb of a despotic government which we ourselves helped to create. Get what I’m sayin’ yet?

          • Guest0757

            We will agree to disagree. I will pray that you can find love and peace in your heart.

          • Rebecca Behrent

            I pray the same for you I also pray you find true wisdom and understanding.

          • Guest0757

            Lol, okay.

    • Guest0757

      God did not write the bible. People of the past did. And they wrote it according to the cultural ways of their time. Since then, the bible has been changed and reissued x-amount of times so people could change what they wanted to make things appeal more to them. I don’t think God came down from the heavens and told them to edit his book.

      • Rebecca Behrent

        Where in the world do you get such notions? You are so far off base.

        • Guest0757

          You’re right. God came down and wrote the bible.

          • Rebecca Behrent

            That pretty much sums it up. God almost always works through people. So the people who wrote the Bible were like secretaries taking dictation from the boss – in this case, the “boss” being God. And the Bible was not just written for ancient times – it was written for ALL times. The nature of man was the same in ancient times as it continues to be today – we are all still sinning and falling far short of the glory of God. The sins back then are the same sins being committed today – we have just invented better technology to make sinning quicker, easier and more far-reaching!

          • Guest0757

            I wonder…if a man who hears voices rang your door bell and said that he was a secretary taking dictation from God, would you bow down to his feet, or advise he start taking medication?

          • Rebecca Behrent

            I would say this to him, as the Gospel was completed long ago: Proverbs 30:6
            “Do not add to his words, or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar.” We already HAVE such people as in your example: Today we have many so-called “scholars” and just plain haters of God’s Word, who are busily going about changing, twisting, and adding to the Bible. These people and those who follow them and believe them are all in danger of being greatly deceived and risk losing their very souls. I suggest you watch out for un-Biblical secretaries ringing your doorbell. Perhaps paste Proverbs 30:6 under your “No Solicitors” sign on your front door. (You do have such a sign, right?) :)

  • Guest0757

    Leviticus 11:4 “Nevertheless these shall ye not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the hoof: as the camel, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.”

    No one eats camel, but if you eat pork you are sinning and you will rot in hell.

    Leviticus 11:10 “And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you.”

    If you eat shell fish, you will rot in hell because it is an ABOMINATION!

    Leviticus 10:6 “Uncover not your heads, neither rend your clothes; lest ye die, and lest wrath come upon all the people.”

    If you ever wear ripped jeans, you are a sinner and you will ROT IN HELL!!

    Leviticus 19:19 “Neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woollen come upon thee.”

    If your outfits do not consist of only one fabric, you will ROT in hell, you sinner!!

    Leviticus 19:27 “Ye shall not round the corners of your heads.”

    Better let your hair grow out. No more haircuts. Otherwise you are a sinning abomination and you will rot in hell!!

    Leviticus 19:27 “Neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.”

    Guys, you better stop totally shaving your beards off. Otherwise you will burn in hell for all of eternity.

    Leviticus 19:28 “Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the Lord.”

    This is a tough one. Sorry to all of the billions of people in the world who have tattoos. It’s too late for you. You have already marked your skin. And now you will suffer in hell for all of eternity, you SINNER!!!

    Leviticus 19:19 “Thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed.”

    Anyone who’s ever made a garden, well, sorry. You’re done for. Enjoy you’re time on earth, because after that you are going straight to hell.

    Leviticus 19:18 “Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people.”

    Way too many people hold grudges nowadays…and there’s a special place for all of you. You will rot in hell!

    Leviticus 5:2 “If a soul touch any unclean thing, whether it be a carcase of an unclean beast, or a carcase of unclean cattle, or the carcase of unclean creeping things, and if it be hidden from him; he also shall be unclean, and guilty.”

    Anyone here have any pets? You better damn well keep them absolutely clean. And no petting any stray cats either. Because they are filthy and you will ROT IN HELL!

    Leviticus 10:9 “Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die.”

    Who’d have thought? It’s a wonder why so many people drink wine in church and call it “the blood of Christ.” No matter what you refer to it as, you’re drinking alcohol in the house of God. By doing so you are defying Him. And you will rot in hell, you abomination.

    Leviticus 23:3 “Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings.”

    Sorry to all of those who work on Sundays. I know you need to money to survive, but you’re going to hell. Sorry.

    I know, it all sounds so ridiculous…but be sure to take this next one to heart and shout it to the moon in frustration!!!

    Leviticus 18:22 “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.”

    Give me a f**king break.

    • Michael

      Quite possibly the most ignorant thin I’ve read in a long time. Apart from Mr. Hamilton’s post. Sir, or Madame, you’re picking apart God’s word and ignoring context. Before you posted your uneducated comment, were you knowledgeable on the context of Leviticus? Or Deuteronomy? Or are you judging the ENTIRE Bible on what you’ve quite possibly only googled and found on a few pages?

      Understanding culturally immoral laws from divine commandments are of extreme importance. You’ve chosen to ignore this.

      The Old Testament laws go to show that human beings, left to their own ignorance and error, will never be enough to please God. That is why Jesus came to save us. He took on every bit of our faults and failures and paid our debt to the almighty, worthy Creator. The gap was bridged. In the New Testament, we are reminded again that God is angered by homosexual behavior, along with lots of other things.

      Context and knowledge of the entire Septuagint and New Testament are of grave importance.

      • Guest0757

        My point was that the last two are random verses out of the bible that are no different than the others. People disregard any of the others because either they pick and choose what they like, or they believe they are forgiven for their sins. Yet, there are many homosexual Christians out there who are not accepted by other Christians. According to Christianity homosexuality is just as much of a sin as anything else. Everyone sins, and others do not judge them for it unless it is something terrible like murder. The bible also says “Thou must love thy neighbors” Yet instead of forgiveness, most Christians spew hatred at gay people. don’t see homosexuality on the list of the seven deadly sins, which most people are guilty of at least one. There’s one verse that says homosexual behavior is an abomination, and there’s another verse that says eating shell fish is an abomination. Sorry, that’s just ridiculous. Most of you religious people go basing your opinion off one or two verses in the bible, and then use that to justify your hatred. Well, that’s no different than deciding to spew hatred towards those who eat shellfish. The transgender one is even more ridiculous. There is all but one verse in the bible condemning transgender people. The one I listed is like the only verse. And a huge majority of the world uses it to justify violence, discrimination, harassment, and the whole nine yards against transgender people. As ridiculous as it sounds, many of these people even include women who cut their hair short, look, and act like men! Well, according to that one verse that everyone takes to heart, they are JUST as guilty. There is absolutely no argument against that. Nor can I see how you could possibly have any argument of what I said prior to that. And I’M the one who is ignorant?

        • Rebecca Behrent

          I agree with Michael that you must begin to study your Bible more thoroughly! You ask people to point out where the Bible says something is a sin, which they do, and then you accuse them of “picking and choosing”! Perhaps that is because you just don’t like the answers that are in the Bible. And I want to point out that no one is “picking” on LGBTQs. They have brought their issues to the forefront, and we have responded. When is the last time the news covered a national organization of adulterers? (If there is such a thing). Yes, there are Christians out there who do not accept the homosexual lifestyle. But I’m also sure there are those out there who call themselves “Christians” who do accept their lifestyle! So why do you feel the need to force those who don’t agree with the homosexual lifestyle into accepting it as “sinless”? What do you care what they think, as long as your basic rights are not compromised per the Constitution? Not everyone is going to agree with everyone else – if that day should come, however, we will either know that the world has ended, Jesus is here and everyone has gone to where they should (heaven or hell) OR we will know that we are under the thumb of a tyrannical government! As for the “laws” – you do not understand that there are laws in the Bible that are civil, dietary, and moral (God’s) laws. Obviously, the eating of certain foods in that ancient era could have caused death and disease. Pork, for instance, carried trichinosis, a parasite that could cause a debilitating lifelong disease. And there are several passages in the old and new testaments that condemn homosexuality. The verses that talk about women dressing and acting like men obviously show that God created men and women, and he wants them to look, act and remain as such – to do otherwise is “confusion”, the realm of Satan and his workings! And Satan appears to be hard at work today trying his best to confuse everyone – and that is why the Bible as the foundation for the Christian believer is so important. If you just go your own way willy-nilly, thinking as some have suggested, “I’ll just listen to the words in my head that I believe come from Christ” you may find yourself quickly deceived. The Bible is there for a reason. Read it.

          • Guest0757

            I did not ask anyone to point out where anything was a sin. I posted the verses that said it was a sin. You are missing my point. Yes, certain foods **in that era** might have caused disease. Everything in the bible is based upon THAT era. Those people disagreed with homosexuals. That’s why it is in there. God did not come down and say “I detest gay people.” Neither of you two have picked on LGBT’s but many people do, which is what I commented about in the first place. Many Christians do not want anything to do with gay people because being gay is a sin. What about fat people? We live in Obese America. Gluttony is a deadly sin. As you had put it, if someone wanted forgiveness for a sin they would stop doing it. You said they can’t ask for forgiveness and continue to sin. And that if they did, they didn’t truly give themselves to Christ. Many fat people can’t help it. They can’t stop eating. And seriously…how many people are there in the world who want nothing to do with fat people because gluttony is a sin? Not many. That’s ridiculous. But it’s okay to discriminate gay people? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Any of the seven deadly sins are worse than being gay.

            Also, you seem to have misunderstood something. This is the verse in the bible people use to condemn transgender people:

            Deuteronomy 22:5 “A woman shall not wear a man’s garment, nor shall a man put on a woman’s cloak, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the LORD your God.

            My point was that many women prefer to cut their hair short and wear loose men’s clothing. No one ever thinks anything of it. There are also many tomboys out there. These people are just as “guilty” as transgender people, except people see THAT as okay, and they condemn transgender people instead.

          • Rebecca Behrent

            You are totally lost as far as understanding the Bible. Like I said, you’d better really READ and study it if you’re truly going to understand it. Everything you say above is so twisted I hardly know where to begin – or even if it’s possible to get through to you!

          • Guest0757

            If it’s possible to get through to ME?! Are you kidding?? I am speaking the truth. A fat person who gorges themselves every day at the table is “willfully sinning.” A gay person is “willfully sinning.” Yet, there is only something wrong with the latter?

            Christians quote Leviticus to condemn gay people and justify their hatred because it says it is an abomination. Also in Leviticus shortly before that it states that eating shellfish is also an abomination.

            If what I am saying is twisted, then your book is twisted. Because that is where I am getting all of this from.

            I’m not even sure what it is I said that you are saying is so twisted. The fact that a woman who cuts her hair short and dresses in guy clothes is as guilty as a transgender person? The bible clearly states “a woman shall not wear a man’s garment.”

            The bible also clearly condemns gluttony. Yet everything I said regarding that is twisted? But hatred towards gay people is not?

            Your book is twisted.

          • Rebecca Behrent

            A fat person who has trouble resisting food isn’t necessarily “willfully sinning”. They may seriously want to be free of their gluttonous ways but are struggling. God doesn’t condemn a person who’s truly trying to overcome their sin(s). What is wrong is the person who doesn’t think their sin IS a sin and has no intention of even TRYING to change their behavior! God knows the intentions in a person’s heart.
            Like I said – Go read your Bible, (which you have admitted you haven’t really done), then come back when you truly understand what’s written in it and the context in which it’s been written.

          • Guest0757

            Lol I have no interest in reading your story book. You seem to always find a way to word things just right while avoiding my point in the process. The key words in your response are “isn’t necessarily” and “may.” Most fat people don’t care. Many have a “fat and proud” attitude, or an “I’d rather have a big mac than a flat belly” attitude. Many choose not even to admit they are overweight. They just continue eating and pretend it is not the case. But I am sure you would never condemn those people the way you do to gay people.

            And for those who are struggling and are trying to lose weight, I would bet that 9.5 times out of 10 it is not to please God. It is to improve their appearance.

          • Rebecca Behrent

            Whether it’s the sin of gluttony or any other sin, people who are TRYING turn from their behavior are much different from those who have NO INTENTION of trying to turn from their behavior! That’s the whole point you seem to be missing!

          • Guest0757

            Okay Rebecca. I say tomorrow you are no longer allowed to be Rebecca. Because I say there’s something wrong with it. You are now to go by “Beck,” change your entire personality, start liking different things, and force yourself to be attracted to the same sex. How far do you think you would get?

          • Guest0757

            You’re a broken record.

      • Guest0757

        Quite honestly, I don’t even see what exactly your argument is? No I have never read the full bible, only different parts of it here and there. And I am not “religious” in a sense of conformed religion. But I consider myself to be very spiritual and have my own beliefs that stem from separate religions. But I do not see what that has to do with the point that I was trying to make. Yes, we are reminded from a couple of verses that God is angered by homosexual behavior. And like you said, we are reminded that God is angered by many other things as well. But there is one problem. There is absolutely nothing that says the sin of homosexuality is any worse than the hundreds of other sins that God is angered by. If someone can seek forgiveness for Greed or Gluttony then they can seek forgiveness for being gay. Yet that is not enough for most people and they instead do not accept them and spew hatred at them. That is homophobia. The ignorance is no different than someone choosing a random sin that you or I may be guilty of, and then spewing hatred towards us for it. Jane Doe shouts at John Doe that he’s going to hell for being gay. Then John Doe yells at Jane Doe that she’s going to hell for being a greedy, lustful girl. What’s with all the hatred? Christianity is about forgiveness and seeing the best in people. All I see is people being cruel to each other. We live in a sad world.

        • Michael

          Every sin separates us from God. Absolutely. They’re all equal, to an extent of blaspheming the Holy Spirit, which is unforgivable. I agree with you that no sin is greater than another. But consider this…

          God desires our repentance. That is, placing our sin before His feet and turning around 180 degree and walking away from that sin. When we choose to make a lifestyle of a certain sin, how can we expect to have a relationship with God? When you’re after God’s heart, how can you be in love with sin? If someone were to wake up every morning and murder one person every day, but claim they’re a Christian….something doesn’t add up, right?

          You said you’ve only read small portions of scripture. I really encourage you to read more. Start with John. Learn exactly what Jesus did for us. The truth is, it happened. Whether you believe it or not. And one day, we’ll all stand before Him. It’s your decision to make now.

          My argument (for clarification) is context. You seem frustrated that people pick and choose from Scripture….but you’re doing that exact thing. Once again, do you know what the context of Leviticus and the Old Testament is and who Israel is and how that relates to the church today?

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  • Stephen B

    What the author is getting wrong is his application regarding the scriptures related to slavery. Nowhere does the bible condone slavery but what it does do is instruct slaves to act the way God call us to in spite of their captivity. With regard to immorality and sexual sin the bible remains consistent with a message of self sacrifice for the sake of spiritual purity and obedience. There is a standard and a design for marriage and biblical union which is so holy that it is used as a metaphor for Jesus and his church. To distort biblical truth by applying eisegesis rather than exegesis is a practice that often leads people to believe and lead un-biblical lives and others astray.

  • Lollygirl217

    This is completely and utterely stupid.

    • Guest0757

      Leviticus also says eating shellfish is an abomination. You’re an idiot.

      • Lollygirl217

        Those were laws created by God for his people. Those were made so they can thrive and survive into an obedient and Godly country. Those foods he named not to eat at that time were unclean. That is why he said not to eat them. It specifically says that after every single food it names, “for it is unclean”. You think God wanted his people to die from illnesses? Anyways, that for them back in the day.

        • Guest0757

          Lol, that’s why you cook them. They’re no longer unclean? Leviticus says a bunch of other stupid stuff too. I hope the outfit you are wearing isn’t made from more than one fabric.

          • Guest0757

            Also, make sure you never even so much as lie in the same bed as your husband while you are menstruating. It is an abomination.

          • Rebecca Behrent

            Yeah – because they had no Kotex back then! And because menstrual blood makes a rather good medium for nasty bacteria to grow in! Think about it – if it doesn’t make you throw up.

          • Guest0757

            OMG. You are a f**king joke!! Everything that you choose not to follow, you make up some bulls**t for. The bible says absolutely nothing about tampons. No matter how you look at it, it is what it is. The bible calls it an abomination, whether you try to think of reasons around it…or not. The same types of excuses could be made up for plenty of other things, including the bible’s views on homosexuals. You’re a total joke, you really are. Once again, you’re only choosing to follow what you want. If you’re going to live by the bible then live by it all. You are a joke beyond words.

          • Rebecca Behrent

            You just don’t get it! People back then didn’t KNOW certain things! They didn’t know there were such things as “germs” or parasites that could make you sick. The Bible is not just a book about morality – it’s also a book of history, culture, dietary and civil laws. There were things written for the PROTECTION of God’s people. You see, all of creation was corrupted when Adam and Eve were driven from the Garden, and Satan was given a certain amount of dominion over the earth. Satan loves to spread pestilence and other harm to human beings. But God will always step in to see that Satan can never fully destroy his creation. As far as choosing to follow only the parts I want to – you’re a hypocrite. Obviously, the LGBTQs are busily trying to distort the Bible so they don’t have to obey the parts they don’t like.

          • Guest0757

            Yeah, you’re right. They didn’t know certain things. Just like how they didn’t have ANY understanding of sexual orientation or gender identity like the medical community does today. No understanding whatsoever. Obviously you don’t either…so go read a book.

          • Lollygirl217

            They didn’t know how to properly cook them -_-. They didn’t have the tools we have now. They just got out of slavery at the time too. There is a reason behind every rule he made. And for the last time, he made those rules for his people specifically.

      • Guest

        Suuuuuuuuuure buddy, because eating shellfish is exactly the same thing as being a sex pervert.
        You’re the idiot.

        • Guest0757

          lol how stupid are you? Being gay has absolutely nothing to do with being a pervert. Second of all, if I am an idiot, then it’s your book that is retarded because that’s where I got it from. Follow leviticus all you want to justify your hatred towards gay people. Your hatred is justified by the fact that the bible says it’s an abomination. Well so is eating shellfish. And so is plenty of other stuff. So you better start condemning people who eat clams. Sounds ridiculous doesn’t it? So does your ignorant hatred. If you’re going to follow the bible then follow the whole thing. By consuming shell fish you are defying God. You are an abomination. The bible says so.

      • Benster

        Leviticus was Gods instructions on living a healthy life, you have to remember in the beginning on mankind we were very few, we were very basic in understanding , we knew very little about disease, shell fish are bottom feeders, they were designed by God to be the cleaners of the oceans, lakes, streams and ponds. These types of creatures (along with scale less Fish) are known to carry disease. God did not want his people to eat these because he wanted the population of his creation to grow. That would not happen if he did not teach us how to be clean, how to keep disease’s from spreading and the teachings in Leviticus did just that. Try understanding what you are reading.

  • Lollygirl217

    There are millions of reasons why homosexuality is wrong. First things first, every single time the Bible talks about marriage. It specifically says, “man and women, “husband and wife”. It doesn’t talk about any other way whatsoever.

    Genesis 2:22-24 :Then
    the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and
    he brought her to the man. The man said, “This is now bone of my bones
    and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called ‘woman, ‘ for she was taken
    out of man.” For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and
    be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.

    It clearly states that man and women are to be together. And this is
    written at the very beginning of the Bible. It doesn’t say, “All sexes
    can become one sex.” It specifically explains that man and women will
    become one flesh (marriage).

    Proverbs 18:22: He who finds a wife finds what is good and receives favor from the LORD.

    It says, “he” who finds a “wife.” It doesn’t say anywhere, “he/she who finds a wife/husband” receives favor from the LORD. It specifically is talking about a man and a women.

    Deuteronomy 24:5: If
    a man has recently married, he must not be sent to war or have any
    other duty laid on him. For one year he is to be free to stay at home
    and bring happiness to the wife he has married.

    Again. It does not mention same sex marriage. If you look at all of the versus about marriage. ALL of them talk about man
    and women. Husband and Wife. It never ever talks about any thing else.

    It is very specific in its words.

    Matthew 19:4-6: “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator
    ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man will
    leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will
    become one flesh’ ? So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what
    God has joined together, let man not separate.”

    1 Corinthians 7:1-16 :Now for the matters you wrote about: It is good for a man not to marry. But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband. The
    husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the
    wife to her husband. The wife’s body does not belong to her alone but
    also to her husband. In the same way, the husband’s body does not belong
    to him alone but also to his wife. Do not deprive each other except by
    mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to
    prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you
    because of your lack of self-control. I say this as a concession, not
    as a command. I wish that all men were as I am. But each man has his
    own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that. Now to the
    unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried,
    as I am. But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for
    it is better to marry than to burn with passion. To the married I give
    this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her
    husband. But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be
    reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife. To
    the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is
    not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce
    her. And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is
    willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. For the unbelieving
    husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife
    has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your
    children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy. But if the
    unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound
    in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace. How do you
    know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or, how do you know,
    husband, whether you will save your wife?

    You see? Each man should have his own wife, and each women her own husband. It doesn’t talk about anything else.

    The same verse:

    “But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female.’ ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what
    God has joined together, let man not separate.”

    Is repeated over and over again by different people in the Bible.

    It also doesn’t make any logical sense. When gay men supposedly, “have sex” they are putting they’re part in the hole. And sorry for being descriptive but I need to tell you this for you to understand. How is putting your penis in a hole that was made for dumping okay? How could God bless that kind of action? That is not what sex is. That is a disgusting thing to do. The anus was not made for that, it was made for dumping. As for lesbians, when they have “sex” they don’t even have anything to go into their sex hole in the first place, how is that true sex? Again. Sorry for the description but seriously, how are these actions “natural” ? >>>These body parts don’t go together.<<< It's like putting a negative with a negative and a positive with a positive. It
    just doesn't work.

    You think God would bless this kind of behavior? The Bible explains the reason why it is wrong, and it's because it is lustful and not how God made it to be. It's such a simple thing to understand. Why would God create something such as, "becoming one soul" (marriage) for all sexes? He created a women for Adam, not a man.

  • Erin

    You all are missing the point. Slavery was obviously bad. And what does that have to do with homosexuality? NOTHING. Homosexuality is not supported whatsoever in the bible. I don’t agree with this preacher because calling yourself gay or a lesbian is labeling yourself as that sin. Kind of like calling yourself a murderer or a liar and being proud of it. I have friends that are homosexual and I love them! And I don’t hate them for it! I don’t support them with their homosexuality though.

    • Guest0757

      You’re the one who is missing the point. While homosexuality is not supported in the bible, and slavery (which was obviously bad) IS supported in the bible. Killing your children if they disobey you is also supported in the bible. You people choose to overlook that stuff though.

      You don’t support your friends? You’re a pretty shitty friend then. They were born attracted to the same sex, no different then how you were born to the opposite sex.

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  • robert d

    The bible condones murder, rape, genocide, fratricide, infanticide, incest, slavery, ownership of women as a matter of course, stoning, quartering etc, so anyone who uses this text as a guide for life is twisted; especially as the authority for such atrocities is a non-existent entity.

  • Kurt Barks

    This is horrible. This is very poor scholarship. Jesus came to fulfill the law, as he said, not to nullify it. He did not need to restate the obvious about addiction to sexual fetishes. Never forget, there are many types of slavery. Jesus used that example to extol us to worry less about the circumstances of this life and worry more about loving God and loving each other. He said to flee sexual sin! Homosexuality is a sin. It is not genetic (non-reproductive people DO NOT procreate, think about it. it would have bred out by now) We all sin so we do not judge but you can’t condone sin or you put the one you love in jeopardy in this life and the next.

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    Blocking your lying site on twitter from now on for this Go read Dr. Browns book

  • Tina Marie Blackson

    Hi Rebecca you have blessed my soul with your integrity and your standing on and not compromising the word of God regarding homosexuality but on this topic sweetie you are on the Battle of Mount Carmel but if you read 1 Kings 18 you know who already won. You know as I was reading all of the comments satan spirit is in these comments and I say to you the Lord rebukes you satan. The more I read the disputes about the Word of God and how he feels about Homosexuality this is not our battle but God’s. (2 Chronicles 20:15). We can say but so much but it is going to take prayer to defeat the enemy with this subject because when people don’t want to hear the truth you have to do what Paul says in Acts 18:6: 6 And when they opposed themselves, and blasphemed, he shook his raiment, and said unto them, Your blood be upon your own heads; I am clean;from henceforth I will go unto the Gentiles. For Rebecca and those of us who lives by and trust the word of God clear your conscience and don’t be angry because you have said all that you could say.

    Because the word of God says in: (2 Timothy 2:15) 15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. My hats off to you Rebecca and for the others you who have truly shown that you study your word.There were comments from people that said they study the word of God for themselves and yet they are disputing and interpreting God’s word into what they believe it is saying. Where is the proof that they are studying the word for themselves because I am hearing more debating than a little bit, I don’t care what they say or what they think about what God is saying in his word about Homosexuality or any other sins that man commits on a daily basis sin has a penalty and the word of God says in Romans 6:23:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord and Proverbs 14:12 says:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

    Sin comes with a price. My questions to everyone are you willing to pay the price with your soul?

  • Tina Marie Blackson

    God did not change his mind back then and he haven’t changed his mind for this time era what he says about Homosexuality because there is no justification for sin or any other acts of sin nor can the word of God change to fit one”s own purpose
    because it is what it is. The world changes the way it thinks and does things everyday but the word of God does not change. No matter who does not like it (Hebrews 13:8) says: 8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever, and (Numbers 23:19) says: 19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and
    shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

    To sum things up, if you truly love God you are going to hate what he hates. People that are in sin or who are unsaved are going to find this offensive but okay so be it. I am not going to love the sinner and hate the sin because that is not scripture that is a lie from the pits of
    hell. David wrote this: Psalm 139: 19-24 19 Surely thou wilt slay the wicked, O God: depart from me therefore,
    ye bloody men. 20 For they speak against thee wickedly, and thine enemies take thy name in vain. 21 Do not I hate them, O Lord, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee? 22 I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies. 23 Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts: 24 And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting.

    To my sisters and brothers who profess to be Christians the bible says in 2 Corinthians 5: 17: 17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. But to be a new creature you have to walk, talk, and think in the way of the Lord seeking the will of God and winning souls for Christ but you cannot do this if you’re in a carnal state of mind. Romans 8:5-9 says, 5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.7 Because
    the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.8 So then they that are in the
    flesh cannot please God. 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man
    have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

    For those that are unsaved John 3:16-21 says: 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

    The professed Christians and the unsaved try to interpret what God says about Homosexuality for self justification to ease
    their own guilt and tries to reverse guilt on true Christians who will not comprise the word of God to make them comfortable in their sin. The word of God is profound and nothing can be added to it or changed. God has commanded us to not change His Word. As He is the author, He holds the eternal copyright. He allows us, nay, commands us, to copy and spread His Word to the entire world. However, He strictly forbids the addition or removal of anything from His Word. Ye shall not add unto the word which
    I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you (Deuteronomy 4:2).

    If you add to His Words, you make yourself a liar: “Add thou not unto [God's] words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a
    liar.” (Proverbs 30:6) Prohibition on altering God’s Word is not limited to the Old Testament. The closing verses
    of the New Testament contain a very strong warning against tampering with God’s Word: (Revelation 22:18, 19): 18. For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19. And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. God has a very high opinion of His Word. He inspired it perfectly, and He forbids us from polluting it by adding to or subtracting from it.

    Christians we have to give an account for everything we say in and out of love not standing strong and not compromising the word of God. (Psalm 119:1-4): 119 Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the Lord.2 Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart.3 They also do no iniquity: they walk in his ways.4 Thou hast commanded us to keep thy precepts diligently.

    Let us search our hearts and see if there is anything wicked ways in us and let us ask God to lead us in a path everlasting.

    My question to you again is where do you want to spend eternity?

  • Rebecca Behrent

    When a Christian has presented the words of the Bible as fully and as correctly as they can in response to others’ thoughts and behaviors, and there is only resistance in return, there comes a point when the Bible itself says you must “. . . give them the dust of your heels. . .” and no longer strive to show them what the Bible says and means. It has been the words in the Bible I have relied upon, not my own. I urge everyone to quit thinking about ME and concentrate more on the words of the Bible and pray. That’s all I can do from a human standpoint. From here on out, I leave it in God’s hands and I pray he continues striving with you all. One day, it will all be sorted out and we will all know where we’ve been right and where we’ve been wrong. My hope is that I will see everyone here in heaven. With that, I leave you with a message of love. Each and every person is a unique being with many facets to them besides their sexual life. I meet all sorts of people every day, gay and straight. I enjoy and learn something from them all. There has not been one I’ve met that I would wish would end up in hell. Not even people who have done wrong to me. Not one. Goodbye everyone!

  • Marc Miller

    I do not struggle with homosexual sin, but I have plenty of sins for which I do struggle. Why do gays get a free pass but I don’t? This is Christian hypocrisy. If a church gave me a free pass it wouldn’t change reality. I’ll still have to stand before God and give an account of myself. So will homosexuals and clergy who issue free passes, because they don’t have the courage to tell people what they need to hear rather than what they want to hear. The Apostle Paul warned that in the last days preachers would tell people what they wanted to hear; itchy ears. And the context was homosexuality. And Adam – here you are.

  • Damen Crave

    I have yet to meet a Fundementalist or Evangelist preacher that doesn’t believe their interpretation of scripture is the true and correct meaning. This is also true for many members of these institutions. When members and/or leaders of a church finally get to the point their differences on interpretation are too great, we end up with yet another version of Christianity. So far 41,000 of these splits have been identified. This should make it very clear to anyone, that regardless of how righteous you believe you are, you do not speak for God. He makes this abundantly clear by repeating (over 600 times) that no one has the authority to act on his behalf by judging and condemning other based on their interpretation of his words. He also confirms a space in hell for those that do.

    That said, it’s possible the subject of homosexuality may just be a way for God to show his followers the true Christians that follow his over all message of love, kindness, acceptance and forgiveness as opposed to the people calling themselves Christians who’s most notable attribute is a undeniably strong hatred of everyone not exactly like them.

    • TheKillingWords

      There’s really no other way to interperet “Do not be deceived: Those who indulge in…homosexuality…none of these will inherit the kingdom of God.” 1 Corinthians 6:9-10. Now this isn’t to say we should treat homosexuals like garbage, absolutely not! We need to love them, we need to present God’s word to them but not for once second are we to agree with their choice, (and make no mistake, it is a choice), take part in it or condone it. God’s word comes above our own opinion.

  • Steve

    Even though we (Christians) walk in grace, rather than the law, it doesn’t give us free reign to do whatever we want; and expect to not be held accountable. Jesus did not come to destroy the law, but to fulfill it. God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. The difference between “Old testament” and “New testament” is that we do not have to sacrifice lambs, to God, anymore. The ultimate lamb (Jesus) has been sacrificed, and covers our sins, completely. Still, God makes it clear that homosexuality is an abomination. Why would anyone want to do something that God considers to be an abomination? God has not changed, just because it is the 21st century. Man can say that homosexuality is acceptable, all he wants to. It doesn’t make it true. Let God be true, and every man a liar.

  • SM

    Stop spewing your lies you false teacher. Slave owners did not use the Bible to justify slavery, they listened to their father, Satan, the creator of lies and racism. The slavery read about in the Bible and the slavery in the U.S. were different and you know this. Please research the different basis for both. Christians that read this, please pray, Satan has infiltrated the Western church and now false teachers lead congregations. The judgment of the LORD will be great against the Western world if we stand by and let this continue.

  • Dean Finch

    “Skeptics often argue that the Bible cannot be a moral book because it condones slavery. One thing they don’t realize is that that biblical slavery is nothing like the atrocities that black slaves faced in Colonial America. For one thing, it wasn’t based on your race. Slaves weren’t treated like animals. God allowed slaves to flee their masters and dwell among other towns. God forbade anyone to oppress a runaway slave or to return him to his owner.

    So biblical slavery cannot be compared to early American black slavery. But why did God allow slavery? We know that God did not allow Hebrew men or women to become enslaved by their own people. He only allowed the pagans from the surrounding nations to become slaves. Now we are all human beings made in the divine image of God. God doesn’t show favoritism.

    But a pagan growing up living apart from Israel was damned. What chance could he have at salvation if he did not know Yahweh? Slavery allowed pagan men and women to be grafted into Israel.

    This is why God allowed a slave to flee his master and dwell in another town of Israel. The point of him allowing slavery isn’t to oppress a certain group of people, but to give them a shot at salvation. As a slave under a Hebrew master, they will learn the truth about the King of the Universe. Even after fleeing his master, they have still obtained the knowledge of truth.

    No form of slavery is necessary today. But it served a righteous purpose in those days – bringing salvation to many people who otherwise wouldn’t have a chance.

    Leviticus 25:39-46
    Deuteronomy 10:17
    Deuteronomy 23:15-16
    Romans 2:11″

  • Don Ledbetter

    Let us just focus on one thing here – Homosexuality….Please tell me how it is right and good for men to have sex with each other. Now even if you guys don’t believe a word of the Bible, looks like common sense would tell you something. If it’s ok for men to have sex with men and women to have sex with women let’s put all men on one island and all women on another one and soon there will not be any concerns at all on this subject. Same sex sex is simply put PERVERTED, if you argue otherwise then you are making a choice to not believe what you have a strong desire to do. Apply this same reasoning to any other perversion, such as sex with little kids or animals etc, you guys get the message. It’s perverted any dang way you look at it… So, do the heck what you want to do because God gave to all of us free will and allmost every thing we do is a choice. – oh no, you say – homosexuals were born that way. Even if you think they are my point is they still make a choice to do it, nobody stands over them with a gun or a knife or a club and MAKES them have same sex…….just saying….

  • Mitch Mosler

    If I were Satan I would say the same thing. Divert and distort the word of God to fit into today’s culture. Despite the bible stating that it’s detestable for men to lie with other men it also talks about how a man and woman would leave their family and become as one. Not a man leaves his family to become one with another man. We are to turn from our sins no matter how hard that is to become righteous through Jesus to God. Why not except prostituion? Sounds like we could use some good prostitutes in he church and except their behavior. Why not pedophiles? After all they are doing it out of love. When Jesus was with the prostitute he said “nor do I condemn you, go and sin no more”. Like Jesus we should be full of love for these people but not condone their behavior. Jesus would not be the best man at a gay wedding, nor would he escort a woman to have an abortion. He hung out with sinner’s but didn’t participate in their wrongful behavior because he wanted them to know about heaven and love them as we should do. It is shameful to even relate slavery to this. God is very clear on this. Jesus said that many will hear but few will except. Pray that God opens your heart and ears to clearly hear and listen to his word.

  • Mitch Mosler

    The humanists have, however, forgotten one important ingredient.

    “Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not depart from it” (Proverbs 22:6).

    You cannot faithfully teach God’s Word to your children while living a lifestyle specifically condemned by God’s Word. All Christians are sinners forgiven by God’s grace, but living in a homosexual relationship constitutes habitual, unrepented sin.
    “You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination” (Leviticus 18:22; see also Leviticus 20:13).

    Disobedience of such a clear command indicates rejection of God’s authority.

  • Matthew Crockett

    my two cents into this debate is that you can’t have a literal interpretation without an accurate translation. Every debate in the comments revolves around somebody’s preferred Translation of the Bible. I’m not a fundamentalist by any means. I’m also not threatened by the existence of people who don’t believe exactly the same as me because my priority as a Christian is a relationship between me and God.

  • Rev Donald Spitz

    Homosexuality should be criminalized. Homosexuality is a crime
    against God and against the Holy Bible. After reading this story I know why God
    wrote:

    Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of
    them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their
    blood shall be upon them.

    Romans 1:24
    Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own
    hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: :26 For this cause God
    gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural
    use into that which is against nature: :27 And likewise also the men, leaving
    the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with
    men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence
    of their error which was meet.