Why the Catholic Church needs Margaret Farley

The Vatican has once again sharply criticized a nun, this time for writing on sexual ethics. The Vatican has accused … Continued

The Vatican has once again sharply criticized a nun, this time for writing on sexual ethics. The Vatican has accused Sister Margaret Farley, a member of the Sisters of Mercy religious order and professor emerita of Yale Divinity School, of publishing a book that posed “grave harm” to the faithful.

The book title? “Just Love: A Framework for Christian Sexual Ethics.”


View Photo Gallery: In light of the Vatican’s action, a list of nuns who have become known in the broader world. Two of the Americans listed have been canonized. 

“Just Love” is a work that sets out to find “ethical guidelines and moral wisdom for our sexual lives” taking on the task of discerning issues of “character and virtue” in relationship not just to behaviors but also to the “large questions” of what human embodiment and sexual desire mean in a moral sense. (p. 15) Our sexual relations, Margaret Farley ultimately concludes, after a cross-cultural and historical exploration, must be founded on both love and justice in an integral sense. “I propose, finally, a framework that is not justice and love, but justice in loving and in the actions that flow from that love.” She seeks to help us all define a sexual ethics that is not abstract, but “morally good and just” in reality, in actual relationships. (p. 207)

If ever there were a method of moral reasoning on sexual ethics that is desperately needed in the Catholic Church today, it is the one proposed by Margaret Farley.

Perhaps it is fitting that the attack by the Vatican on Farley’s work has come just after the Sunday of Pentecost, the time when Christians celebrate the coming of the Holy Spirit to the apostles (Acts 2:1-4). The major spiritual gift of the Holy Spirit is wisdom. And, as noted above, the search for moral wisdom on sexual ethics is the overarching goal of Margaret Farley’s work.

The Catholic Church desperately needs to gain moral wisdom in its sexual ethics. The church around the world has been wracked by scandals over child sexual abuse, and the crisis is far from over. The Catholic Church’s continues to reject homosexual unions in marriage as one of the gifts of God’s creation and therefore good, and the full equality of women in ordination to the priesthood has not yet been achieved.

Yet, in recent months, instead of focusing on these crucial issues, the Vatican has chosen to target Dr. Margaret Farley’s work, as well as ministry of the largest umbrella group of American nuns, a group known for its work with the poor. The Vatican has subjected these nuns to investigation and criticism for “radical feminism.” These charges, the Catholic nuns have now maintained, are “unsubstantiated” and “flawed.”

This is an important moment not only for Catholics, but also for all those people of faith who care about the world-wide Catholic communion. The question really is whether, finally, the Vatican even belongs to the Catholic Church as it is emerging in this dynamic time. This was, in fact, a question considered very seriously by the Catholic Church in the 1960’s. In 1962, Pope John XXIII called the Second Vatican Council (Vatican II) not only to bring the Church’s message more directly into dialogue with the modern world, but also to rethink the nature of the Church, the world and the relationship between the two. During the conference, the church redefined its role; the church was now to be seen as the “People of God.”

The Vatican II concept that the church is the “People of God” continues to be important for the Catholic Church according to Fr. Richard McBrien, Crowley-O’Brien Professor of Theology at the University of Notre Dame. An important ecclesial lesson from Vatican II is that church is thus not defined as the hierarchy, or even just the clergy or the members of orders of religious. It is the community of all who are baptized. This is a rich and diverse group in terms of gender, race, class, social status, sexual orientation, ethnicity and culture.

Thus, Fr. McBrien writes, “One of the council’s most important affirmations, the Dogmatic Constitution on the Church, known by its Latin title as Lumen gentium, declared that charisms, or gifts of the Holy Spirit, are available to all the faithful, “of every rank” (n. 12).”

I believe that the writing of Dr. Margaret Farley, the work of the Leadership Conference of Women Religious, the umbrella group of 1,500 orders that represent about 80 percent of Catholic sisters in the United States, as well as that of other Catholics today working for love, justice and charity are the gifts of the Holy Spirit for the Catholic Church in this time.

The work of the Holy Spirit in bringing moral wisdom is, without a doubt, mysterious and hard to discern. But in the New Testament, love and the works of love in treating each other justly are often found together as marks of the work of the Holy Spirit (Gal. 5:22)

And as the prophet of the Hebrew Bible, Micah says, “What doth the Lord require of thee but to do justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with thy God (Micah 6:8).

About

Susan Brooks Thistlethwaite Rev. Dr. Susan Brooks Thistlethwaite is Professor of Theology and immediate past President of Chicago Theological Seminary. She is also a Senior Fellow at the Center for American Progress. Her most recent books are "#OccupytheBible: What Jesus Really Said (and Did) About Money and Power" and, as contributor and editor, "Interfaith Just Peacemaking: Jewish, Christian, and Muslim Perspectives on the New Paradigm of Peace and War."
  • mrsm117

    One needs to discern the spirits. In the case of Sr. Margaret Frawley she has not done that. The Holy Spirit would not have directed her to be disobedient to the teachings of the Church which come from God. This is precisely the problem wiithin the LCWR. They have failed in being faithful to doctrinal issues and that is not acceptable. One cannot identify themselves as Catholic and teach error. Correction of both the LCWR and Sr. Frawley was necessary and prudent.

  • amelia45

    Beautifully put. As a Catholic I hang on because I really do believe that all the people of the Church are the Church. We badly need for the hierarchy to move forward and, unfortunately, both JPII and Benedict XVI only seem to move us backwards.

    It hasn’t just been the sex abuse scandal in the Church that has caused so many Catholics to weigh thoughtfully what the magisterium teaches, rather than just accept it unthinkingly. It is also the Church’s stance on issues of sexuality – starting with the wonderful liberation of the Pill, but continuing with the recognition of the “natural” gay person. Women’s increasing voice and power in the world are also important to a growing frustration with the Church that clings to outdated notions of what roles we are allowed to play.

    I read a wonderful comment by another frustrated Catholic women in a different forum, where those who refuse to thoughtlessly obey whatever comes from the magisterium are told the are “cafeteria” Catholics and invited to leave. She said being a Catholic woman today was like being in a bad marriage, but remaining faithful. There is grace in the struggle.

    Come Holy Spirit.

  • JFT1

    I am curious why mrsm117 believes that all of the teachings of the magisterium come from God, and the writer seems to imply, are infallible. That is NOT church doctrine and really is rather a radical notion. Catholics are to follow the teachings of the Magisterium, it is true, but that does not mean they can’t be flawed. Even the Pope is not infallible in EVERYTHING he says. Clearly, the Magisterium was wrong at critical times in the Church’s history up to today. And who is “the Church?” Vatican II, as this article notes, taught that it was The Clergy PLUS the laity PLUS Jesus…all three being essential. So, in sum, your basic assumptions are flawed and frankly without doctrinal foundation. You might try one of the authorized histories of the Catholic Church where you will learn that the Church’s teachings do indeed evolve and when they do, not everyone in the leadership moves together at the same pace.

  • Annette Magjuka

    I believe that the church is all the faithful, and that the Holy Spirit is available to all. The Catholic church used to talk about conscience. I do not care what the Pope or the bishops say, I KNOW that gay people are made by God and are his children. They should be loved and respected. I cannot and will not condone discrimination of gay people. My heart is sure of this, and I do believe it is from the Holy Spirit. I am just as sure that we are called to serve the poor and to work for social justice. This means to work for health care for all. Obama has made this a possibility, and I think it is abhorant that the Pope and bishops are seeking political power instead of health care for the poor. I cannot and will not condone this. I am not a “cafeteria Catholic.” I am an educated woman who wants to fully participate in life. I used birth control. I used infertility medications. I am Cathoiic and the church needs my voice. I will not be silenced. I am for gay marriage rights and birth control. I agree 100% with Sr. Farley. Keep the conversation going.

  • Pabladro

    Unfortunately, there is a lack of understanding by the author and those posting comments about what the Catholic Church actually is, and what it is not. It is not a democracy in which we can determine teaching by popular opinion. It is a hierarchical organization led by the Pope who is guided by the Holy Spirit to prevent error from entering into the teachings in faith and morals. It is true he can sin, but when something is defined as a dogma or an infallible doctrine, it cannot be changed because it is the will of God. It is a point in which we have come to fully understand some aspect of God’s teaching. So, for example, women can never become priests, homosexual “unions” will never be seen as marriage in God’s eyes regardless of what law exists, Jesus is the second person of the Trinity, Mary is bodily in Heaven, etc. These are things that are required belief by all faithful Catholics. To reject any of them is to not be Catholic. Of course you can call yourself Catholic, but full communion with the Church of Jesus Christ is not based on what you call yourself, it is based on your will being united to God’s. We know the will of God through the protected teachings of the Magisterium in union with the Pope and Apostolic Tradition. I am sorry if this offends anyone, but someone who is familiar with Catholic teaching should post every once in a while. Read your Catechism though if you want more truthful information, not article posts.

  • tony55398

    Much of the Doctrine that a Catholic is obliged to accept in order to be called Catholic, is not required for salvation, only one thing and that is to Love God and your neighbor.

  • citizen625

    Religion is the opiate of the masses. The pictures of Catholic bishops doing the Nazi salute says it all. The hierarchy only wants power.

  • Antoni Zukowski

    Actually, Catholic Church doesn’t “need” Ms. Farley. “Theologians” such as Ms. Farley are like the hairstyles of the 1980s – they happened, and no one really misses their disappearance. Some people cling to them though. It is time Ms. Farley lets go of her deep-seated misconceptions and embraces the Catholic Faith. What the misguided “catholics” do not get is that the religion they have created in the past 40 years is anything but Catholicism of the previous two millennia. And that 40 yo confection is dear only to the hearts of those very (old) reformers. Thus, Ms. Farley, it is time to go – no one will miss you (and that hair).

  • usapdx

    The Vaican should face the fact that most RCs in the developed world do not believe in many things that the church teach. Those RCs that do is fine but for them to tell the rest to leave is a weak answer. A better answer is for real correct needed real change in the RCC from this current voice of the Dark Age. It would be brillient if the Pew company could do a research on the RCs believes in the USA and enlighten us with the results. It be a real eye opener. Also it is time for RC women to be part of the administration of the RCC as well.

  • usapdx

    mrsm117,…Does the RCC ever teach error? Many RCs in the developed world do not believe all the RCC teach. Ask them.

  • usapdx

    Pabladro…..Define what a Catholic is. Who wrote the current Catechism? Who help him write it and what office does he have now? And what is the old name of that office?

  • IntellectOne

    What is an ‘Authentic Catholic’ aka a ‘Faithful’ Catholic.? An Authentic and Faithful Catholic follows the Teachings of the Sacred Traditions, The Magisterium (Peter’s Holy Chair) , and the Holy Bible. All (3)Three are necessary and if you doubt any of these teachings , you are not an ‘Authentic’ Catholic nor can you be a ‘Faithful’ Catholic. The word Catholic means Universal, it does not mean all people coming together. Catholic aka Universal means that the Teachings of Catholicism transcends all Nationalities, all Races and all Nations. Jesus said to his Apostles, “go teach all Nations”. Jesus put Peter (currently Pope Benedict XVI) in charge of His Church on Earth. A nun, such as Ms Farley, in her Macy’s suit or the head of Notre Dame Theology Dept Professor, wearing a suit from the Warehouse, instead of the normal priestly clerics, are not the people to look to for Holiness. It is actually offensive to have a picture of Blessed Mother Teresa in this article, as though, Sister Ms Farley and Rev. Richard McBrien would have any resemblance to Blessed Mother Teresa’s Holiness.

  • lynnman1

    Truth is not set based on majority vote. Most people do not follow the teaching on adultery. According to your logic, we should change the teaching because people sin. Also Truth does not change so the Dark Ages reference does not make any sense.

  • tidelandermdva

    uIt is important to remember that councils like Vatican Council II are the highest authority of the Church. supreme over the Pope. Yet John XXIII is an outlier (and so was the early Paul VI and John Pal I — remember him?). John Paul I and Ratzinger were not raised in democratic cultures and do not understand or value democracy, any more than did the Piuses. I’m sure Sr. Farley would say we all, not just Catholics, need her book, which was not written solely for Catholics or merely from a Catholic perspective. Even worse than the Catholic Church’s rejection of Gay marriage or woman ordination is its rejection by marriage by priests. the Faith teaches vocations — such as marriage or holy orders — are gifts from God, but refuses to recognize that God might gift one person with both a vocation to holy orders and and a vocation to marry, and thus the Church defies God. The Church instantly defrocks married priests — every good priest I knew left to marry –but refuses to defrock molesters. It throws out its own married priests, but accepts married Anglian priests who oppose women Anglian priests.

  • ThomasBaum

    Pabladro

    You wrote, “We know the will of God through the protected teachings of the Magisterium in union with the Pope and Apostolic Tradition.”

    Do you “know” that it is the Will of God that ALL BE SAVED?

    Do you “believe” that it is the Will of God that ALL BE SAVED?

    Do you even care if ALL ARE SAVED?

    God did NOT call us to be clones and God-Incarnate did not extend His invitation to ‘come follow My Church’ but His invitation was to “Come follow Me”.

    Do you or anyone else reading this think that dogma is more important than God and what God did for ALL?

  • ThomasBaum

    Jesus also said, “When I am lifted up, I will draw EVERYONE to Myself”, maybe it is time to PROCLAIM THE GOOD NEWS as Jesus also asked us to do and as the Angels announced, “This is GOOD NEWS for ALL people.

    It also states that “It is God’s Will that ALL be saved”, like I said maybe it is TIME to PROCLAIM THE GOOD NEWS and as I have said many times, if the Good News is not, ultimately, for ALL than the Good News is not Good News at all but is horrific news.

    We can get so caught up in dogma and rules and regulations that we either lose sight of God or never had any sight of God to begin with.

    You wrote, “It is actually offensive to have a picture of Blessed Mother Teresa in this article, as though, Sister Ms Farley and Rev. Richard McBrien would have any resemblance to Blessed Mother Teresa’s Holiness.”

    It states very clearly in the bible that God said, “Let US make man (humanity) in OUR Image and Likeness”, are you disagreeing with what God said about humanity?

  • ThomasBaum

    Susan Brooks Thistlethwaite

    You wrote, “Thus, Fr. McBrien writes, “One of the council’s most important affirmations, the Dogmatic Constitution on the Church, known by its Latin title as Lumen gentium, declared that charisms, or gifts of the Holy Spirit, are available to all the faithful, “of every rank” (n. 12).” ”

    It is God’s Plan and it is God Who picks who He picks for whatever “job” God picks them for, “Remember I have chosen you, you have not chosen Me….”.

    Many that were chosen by God in the OT were not listened to and were actively denounced while they were breathers and we seem to have followed that tradition into the Church age.

    Many say that Jesus is the Saviour of the world but not too many really believe this in its simplicity and straight-forwardness and seem to believe that Jesus is the Saviour of some but of course they conveniently include themself in this “some”.

  • IntellectOne

    The Vicar of Christ is in charge on Earth. You sound like a Solo Scripture person and that ain’t an Authentic Catholic. Sister Ms Farley and Rev. Richard are not in union with the Holy Father, therefore, they are not even close to Holiness as Blessed Mother Teresa; so let us not pretend that they are on the same level.

  • persiflage

    Margaret Farley is as thoroughly knowledgeable in matters of Catholic theology as any member of the male Catholic hierarchy.

    What she represents is the voice of modern day sanity in the midst of archaic authoritarian medievalism. The polarization these days is not only between the right and the left – it is between men and women at the most fundamental levels of morality and common sense.

    Institutions are interested in sefl-preservation as Max Weber pointed out more than a century ago. By way of contrast, the nuns opposing Vatican social doctrines are interested in real people and real human behavior.

  • ThomasBaum

    Jesus’s invitation was to “Come follow Me”, it was not to follow a follower of Jesus.

    Seems to me that Jesus said that He would send the Holy Spirit to guide and the Holy Spirit is for ALL.

    The Catholic Church teaches the Primacy of Conscience, as a matter of fact the present Pope wrote about this personally.

    Do you have any idea of what the Catholic Church teaches in the way of what the Catholic Church encompasses?

    In case you don’t know, it is not confined to Catholics nor to Christians.

    I don’t know what a “Solo Scripture Person” is but if it is one that puts Scripture above God than I am not that.

    The Church is an instrument of God, it is NOT God.

    You can follow whoever you want but I would rather at least make an attempt at following Jesus.

    Seeing as you are not God, who are you to rank the Holiness of people?

    Check out David in the OT, would you consider him “Holy” and yet God spoke of him as a “man after My Heart”.

    As it is written of God, “My Ways are not your ways and My Thoughts are not your thoughts”.

    No one can tell anyone else how they are to folllow Jesus, we are all individuals and we all have different “jobs”.

    Jesus said, “No one can come to the Father except thru Me”, yet He most definitely did NOT say that there was just one way to Him.

    Are you the one who decides just who is and who isn’t “an Authentic Catholic”?

    It is not about who is or isn’t an Authentic Catholic, it is about what God did for humanity.

    The “religious”, not all but some, of Jesus’s day seemed to have a problem with Jesus, you may have heard about it.

  • warking7

    The point of your last paragraph is unclear. You argue for what, Universalism?

  • warking7

    Pretty sure you are a Universalist. This is not the Gospel.
    Having read this entire thread to get another over view of R.C.’s, the remakable common doctrine is that the Bible is at best, a suggested reading but not really the infallible Word of Almighty God.
    Therefore the fatal flaw of the R.C.C. still festers: you just make stuff up depending on the social currents of the time, or whatever serves the interest of the heirarchy.
    Nothing has really changed for the R.C.’s since Luther was excommunicated. All R.C.’s should be so blessed.

  • Jim

    It’s interesting that this story uses a picture of Mother Teresa — there is no possible way Mother Teresa ever would approve of the work of heretic Farley.

  • Jim

    It’s interesting that this story uses a picture of Mother Teresa — there is no possible way Mother Teresa ever would approve of the work of heretic Farley. Please, heretic Farley, leave the Catholic Church, because you are not Catholic. You owe every Catholic an apology, and you should recant your work. For your own good, I hope the Church excommunicates you.

  • Jim

    Well, tidelandermdva, if you don’t like the Catholic Church, please quit complaining, leave the Church and start your own one-man band. We’ll see if your church stands the test of time like the Catholic Church.

  • Jim

    Thanks, IntellectOne, for your accurate comment. With regard to Thomas Baum’s drivel: it is true that Jesus said it is not the Father’s Will that anyone be lost — but the fact is, people ARE lost (Matthew 7:13-14) — and they are lost not by the Father’s Will, but by their own. The Catholic Church does NOT teach the primacy of conscience in the absence of guidance from the Church — in fact, this is exactly what Protestants believe in, and you can see where that idea has led — two Protestants who claim they are led by the same Holy Spirit but draw different conclusions. So, conscience formation must be submitted to the Church’s authority to teach and guide. Get with it, Thomas — start being accurate in what you say, please.

  • Jim

    Thanks, Antoni, for your on-target comment. I am impressed by the number of posters who cannot think rationally or clearly.

  • Jim

    And you, citizen625, have the ability to discern the intentions of those you’ve never met — you’re very impressive. Actually, you’re a very weak thinker. Married couples can’t always accurately discern the intentions of their spouse with whom they share a home and bed, yet somehow you are able to discern the intentions of the Catholic bishops? Wise up.

  • Jim

    Sorry, Amelia, but all of the people who attend the Catholic Church are NOT members of the Church, even if they think they are. If you don’t believe what the Church teaches (and apparently this includes you), you’re not Catholic. Face the facts. God doesn’t change his Church to suit you, Amelia — you can either accept what God’s representatives teach, or you can leave it and start your own church. But please don’t continue in a Catholic pew and hope the Church will adopt your distorted position.

  • Jim

    Thanks, MrsM117 for your faithful comment.

  • Jim

    Yes, Persiflage, and do you realize that God created women for relationality, to be a man’s companion (Genesis 2:18), and not to be in leadership roles? When God creates a person for something, and they insist on playing a role for which they were not created or equipped to play, they never do well.

  • persiflage

    Jim, do you actually believe that nonsense?

  • SODDI

    christians always need an enemy.

  • Jim

    If by “nonsense”, Persiflage, you mean the headship of men over women — yes, of course I do. It is clear from Scripture, and it is clear in Pius XI’s 1930 encyclical, Casti Connubii.

  • ThomasBaum

    I say that God’s Plan is for ALL, ultimately, to be with God in God’s Kingdom, the new heavens and the new earth, whatever that may be and that God has had God’s Plan since before creation.

    That simple and that inclusive.

  • Jim

    The flaw in your reasoning (in the first post), Thomas, is that you are trying to decide a posteriori (after the fact) who God chose to do what. But, you are ignoring the obvious fact that he chose Benedict XVI to head his Church and proclaim dogma. Concerning your last post, it is true, as Jesus told us, that it is not the Father’s Will that even one person be lost; but, since he allows free will, some unfortunatly choose the wrong path, a path more to their liking, and wind up in Hell — FOREVER.

  • ThomasBaum

    Jim

    You wrote, “With regard to Thomas Baum’s drivel: it is true that Jesus said it is not the Father’s Will that anyone be lost — but the fact is, people ARE lost (Matthew 7:13-14) — and they are lost not by the Father’s Will, but by their own.”

    Then maybe we should pray for the “Father’s Will” just as Jesus tried to teach us not just in the Lord’s Prayer but when Jesus prayed to the Father.

    It does say that the “captives shall be released” and the “dead shall rise”, those that go straight to God at physical death are neither captive nor dead, something to think about.

    I am not saying that some do not go to hell, as a matter of fact I’ve stated many times that not only do some go to hell but that they will find out that they built it themself.

    I have also stated that Jesus went to hell just as it says in one of the creeds and by taking ALL OF THE SINS OF ALL OF HUMANITY upon Himself, He “won” the “keys” and He will use these keys in due time, God’s Time, and I have stated this because I have experienced both hell and spiritual death and I do NOT believe that I have experienced worse than Jesus, not for a moment.

    You then wrote, “The Catholic Church does NOT teach the primacy of conscience in the absence of guidance from the Church”

    There is a difference between guidance and making up your conscience and having your conscience handed to you on a platter.

    You then wrote, “Get with it, Thomas — start being accurate in what you say, please.”

    I have met Dad Who is a Being of Love, I have met the Holy Spirit Who revealed to me that the Catholic Eucharist is Jesus, I have met satan and this is just an observation but satan seems very upset and is not nice at all and I have experienced hell and spiritual death and in one of the dreams that I have had that I know was from God, I was told to speak, therefore I speak, is this accurate enough?

  • ThomasBaum

    The Church actually teaches that some that don’t attend Church are members and also some that don’t believe that Jesus is Who He Is are members.

    The Church is not confined to the Catholic religion nor to Christians, don’t know the exact wording but this is a teaching.

    You do realize that Jesus was not a Catholic nor any other denominational or non-denominational Christian, don’t you?

  • ThomasBaum

    When Jesus walked on this planet, He spoke to people face to face and in a language that they knew.

  • Jim

    Thomas, just because you have had the experiences you did does not in any way mean that everything you say is right or from God. I do respect, however, your convictions, even if they are wrong. With regard to praying for the salvation of others: I whole-heartedly agree, and I have been doing that for a long time. However, God will not drag anyone to Heaven against their will — the person must be willing to die with Christ — to mortify their fleshly desires — before they will be willing to accept Jesus’ invitation of salvation. With regard to conscience formation: if someone’s “conscience” leads them to conclude that homosexual sex is not sinful, then clearly they are in error. Some things are not up for discussion, such as this. This is why Catholics (true Catholics, not the many pseudo-Catholics that are posting here) are so blessed: we get definitive guidance from the Church.

  • Jim

    And your point, Thomas, is … ???

  • ThomasBaum

    Ever thought that since it is the “Father’s Will” that God might, just might, know what He is doing in His Plan of Salvation and that God’s Plan is truly catholic?

    I use masculine pronouns in speaking about our Dad even tho it is not correct since God the Father is neither a Male, a Female nor an It but is a Being of Pure Love.

    Words can be quite inadequate when speaking of God but sometimes we need to use words.

    God is spoken of in both masculine and feminine ways in the bible and neither one is correct even tho God-Incarnate was a Male.

  • ThomasBaum

    My second grade teacher, Sister Philip Marie, taught me two of the most important, I believe, things that I have ever been taught and they are:

    1 God Is Love.

    2 We are all equal in God’s Eyes.

  • ThomasBaum

    Seems to me that you believe that no woman should have any say, one way or the other.

  • persiflage

    JIm and the Pope speak ex cathedra – so there’s no arguing with it.

  • IntellectOne

    Why the Catholic Church needs Margaret Farley? The Catholic Church does not need Margaret Farley to lead astray innocent young children nor adults on her mindless and Faithless ideology trip. She is like a cancer in the Body of Christ. There are enough of these cancerous members running amok in the Kingdom of God on earth. The Bishop or Cardinal that is over the area where Ms Margaret Farley should ‘Formally Excommunicate’ Ms Farley. Where has the Bishop or Cardinal been? She wrote this book in 2006 and no word from the United States Bishops or Cardinals? Strange that it finally got across the pond only to be condemned upon arrival. Where are the Bishops and Cardinals of the United States? (asleep at the wheel) Healthcare Bill with abortions on demand and the so-called-same sex get together that the objectively disordered want to call marriage, what a travesty. Think about it! It all defies logic. No the Catholic Church does not need Ms Farley, with her Macy’s suit and costume jewelry. The Bishops better start leading instead of following the wayward “religious” and politicians into the abyss of no return.

  • persiflage

    Don’t you think they should ex-communicate all the pedophile priests first? Instead, bishops have been shuffling them around for decades in order to avoid scandal and prosecution. It’s still a good ol’ boys club even after all these years.

  • IntellectOne

    The Bishops are capable of multitasking, we would hope, and do more than one thing at a time. If you notice they seem to have a hard time sending information across the pond, but when they do give the proper information to the Vatican about the Judas’s of the church; with full proof, action is taken and those priest are laicized. and jailed. But then the government lets them out and they roam free and nobody knows where they are or their background. Sometimes they even impersonate that they are a priest in good standing. Homosexuals have no place in the priesthood and the Bishops have been told this from the beginning of time. Most of the abuses have been perpetrated by the homosexuals and to deny that is to defy logic. If a person is objectively disordered, it is impossible for that person to follow what Jesus taught and instructed His Church to teach. That includes all the religious that think the Holy Spirit is with them, as they make things up as they go along. The problem is that they are listening to a Spirit that is not Holy, but a Spirit with a black halo.

  • ThomasBaum

    Jim

    You wrote, “However, God will not drag anyone to Heaven against their will — the person must be willing to die with Christ — to mortify their fleshly desires — before they will be willing to accept Jesus’ invitation of salvation.

    First off, I look past heaven to the Kingdom and seeing as it plainly states that it is “God’s Will that ALL be saved”, could be that God knows more about God’s Plan, which God has had since before creation, than you do.

    You also wrote, ” Some things are not up for discussion”

    Like “Love one another as I have loved you”, “Judge not lest ye be judged”, “My Ways are not your ways and My Thoughts are not your thoughts”?

    Another of the things that is supposedly not up for discussion is “Priestly celibacy” is it not?

    Can you tell me if this is not up “for discussion”, how come there are married males being ordained in the Catholic Church?

    “Priestly celibacy” is a totally man-made rule and it is not one that has been in effect for the whole history of the Church, how can a man-made rule be not open “for discussion”?

    As I said, Jesus’s invitation was to “Come follow Me”, it was not to follow Jesus’s Church.

    I, personally, do not think of God as a loser and I do not believe that Jesus died in vain, a tie is absolutely and utterly unacceptable, God wins and satan loses, see you and the rest of humanity in the Kingdom.

  • ThomasBaum

    The Mass.

  • persiflage

    ‘The problem is that they are listening to a Spirit that is not Holy, but a Spirit with a black halo.’

    This business of legitimizing every Church-inspired, hare-brained doctrine under the sun as originating with the Holy Ghost has been going on a very long time – just after the trinitarian doctrine supplanted the prevailing arian doctrine.

    The orthodoxy of an authoritarian male hierarchy has been protected by the most unscrupulous means imaginable over the centuries.

    I don’t remember Jesus advocating for burning religious dissenters at the stake…………must have been the work of the devil himself.

  • Catken1

    “Yes, Persiflage, and do you realize that God created women for relationality, to be a man’s companion (Genesis 2:18), and not to be in leadership roles?”

    And now we have one of the main dangers of false creationist belief.
    Actual reality clearly indicates that Adam and Eve never existed, that there was never a time when there was only one male human from whom females were created, but that we have been male and female both since the beginning of the human race, and long, long before. Neither of us were “created” to serve the other – as if half the human race were born slaves! – but we evolved jointly as a whole sexual species. (And when sex evolved, well before the evolution of the human race, it was females who came first, and males who came from them.)

  • Catken1

    “But, you are ignoring the obvious fact that he chose Benedict XVI to head his Church and proclaim dogma.”

    People chose Benedict – cardinals, not God.
    Provide me one actual iota of provable, objective evidence that your god had any hand in any human decision ever made.

  • Catken1

    If “standing the test of time” is the measure of the worth of a religion, why aren’t you a Hindu?

  • Catken1

    “Thomas, just because you have had the experiences you did does not in any way mean that everything you say is right or from God.”

    Look at the log in your own eye. You are utterly convinced that everything you say is right, that your church and your pope are appointed and run directly by God, you offer NO evidence other than plain assertion for your beliefs, and you dare chide another for arrogance?
    As for people being lost against God’s will, you do realize that makes your god less than omnipotent, yes?

  • Catken1

    “:Married couples can’t always accurately discern the intentions of their spouse with whom they share a home and bed, yet somehow you are able to discern the intentions of the Catholic bishops?”

    And somehow you are able to discern the intentions of an omnipotent, omniscient superbeing whose intellect must be infinitely far above yours? Wise up.

    You are not perfect, and you do not speak for God, and the same goes for your church and any religious organization run by mortals.
    If there is a God, no one speaks for God but God.

  • IntellectOne

    The One Holy and Apostolic Church is always Holy and does not burn people at the stake. They never did. Just because you have people in The Church that do not follow Church Teachings and do harm to other people does not make The One Holy and Apostolic Church wrong. As you can clearly see how Ms Farley is not obeying the Churches teaching and actually condoning and spreading very sinful acts for the general public not counting the harm it will do to the innocent children. This is exactly why The Church does not need Farley nor any of her kind that are Objectively Disordered. They should all be cut out like cancer cells. The Bishops or Cardinals duty that oversee these religious orders or the priests must Officially Excommunicate these wayward cancer cells that are so poisonous Also, Politicians such as Biden, Pelosi, Cumo, Sebelious also must be Officially Excommunicated. They already excommunicated themselves, but they are still presenting themselves at Holy Communion which is sacrilegious The Cardinal or Bishop in charge will be responsible for not Officially Excommunicating them so they are not to present themselves at the Banquet of the King. with the wrong attire..
    I do not ever want to hear any of the Cardinals or the Bishops say that they do not know what is in Biden’s and the rest of the politicians hearts when they have written on their sleeves and voted to promote Abortion, Sterilization, Homosexual Teaching and Same sex marriage to be the Law of the Land. The Cardinals nor the Bishops can no longer hide behind their false claim that they do not know what is clearly in front of them. Open your eyes and you can see and open your ears and you shall hear. The faithful are confused by the inaction of the American Cardinals and when they do act it is against the faithful. The American Cardinals and most of the Bishops think they know better than The Holy Father, The Pope, that sits in the Chair of Peter. Clearly, it shows that they do not kn

  • Catken1

    “do not ever want to hear any of the Cardinals or the Bishops say that they do not know what is in Biden’s and the rest of the politicians hearts when they have written on their sleeves and voted to promote Abortion, Sterilization, Homosexual Teaching and Same sex marriage to be the Law of the Land”

    Perhaps, “respect for the liberty of Americans not to follow Catholic dogma?”
    Oh, right, anyone who stands up for religious freedom is Satan’s tool, denying Catholics their rightful place as dictators.

    And how awful our world is now! A world where (gasp) gay people are happy and fulfilled in their lives instead of shamed and hiding in closets, where people aren’t trapped in bad marriages, where we have _sex education_ instead of letting boys be taught willy-nilly by peers and prostitutes, and girls left in terror of an unknown ordeal on their wedding night, where women, even when pregnant, are treated as human beings who own their bodies instead of someone else’s subhuman property, no more worthy of consideration than an incubating machine would be, and where acts that give pleasure and hurt no one (like masturbation) aren’t punished as signs of sick sinfulness!

    Why don’t you leave this sinful, awful, horrible country where people are free to be sinful, evil non-Catholics, and go found a nice theocracy where you can require everyone to live up to your standards of moral “virtue?”

  • IntellectOne

    Abortion is intrinsically Evil. Abortion is not a “Choice”, let us call it for what it really is. A horrific act of the highest abuse and Rightfully called intrinsically Evil. When people are not taught that the sexual act if reserved for marriage, you have a bunch of uncivilized men and women running around and demanding “Rights” that they do not have in a society with any decency.
    The Homosexual Act is also intrinsically Evil and again the Sodomites are demanding “Rights” that they do not have and they have the audacity to demand redefining marriage.
    Biden, Pelosi, and Sebelious, claim to be practicing Catholics and nothing is further from the Truth. The Bishops should Publicly Excommunicate them at a News Conference and posted in the Washington Post. To allow these lying politicians to continue their facade, claiming to be Catholic, is not Justice and not Defending the Faith.

  • ThomasBaum

    IntellectOne

    You wrote, “The One Holy and Apostolic Church is always Holy and does not burn people at the stake.”

    Just what do you consider “The One Holy and Apostolic Church”?

    The institutional Church, the Church that only God knows who is in, some other, just what?

    You then wrote, “This is exactly why The Church does not need Farley nor any of her kind that are Objectively Disordered.”

    The “Church” teaches that we all have a fallen nature, so are we all “Objectively Disordered” or just those that others call “Objectively Disordered”?

    You then wrote, “They should all be cut out like cancer cells.”

    Should we listen to you or to God?

    Didn’t God tell us to let the wheat and the chaff continue to grow?

    Do you think that God just might have a reason for telling us that?

    Or do you think that you know better than God concerning this?

  • ThomasBaum

    IntellectOne

    Jesus never forced Himself on others, do you think that Jesus wants you to force your conception of Jesus on others?

  • TTWSYFAMDGGAHJMJ

    IN REPLY TO
    CATKEN1

    Who says Hinduism has stood the test of time? The social order in the Hindu malaise is disorder. That should be conspicuously evident. The miasmatic disorder that encompasses the ambience of Hinduism has left it in a state of foreboding irrational animal worshiping, insufferable poverty, a lack of self-worth, pestilence, religious disputes, secular wars, and violent clashes ending in death.

    In contrast, a society’s domestic order of tranquility is in direct proportion to its countenance of the teachings of the Catholic Church. That is patently evidenced by contrasting the Free World to the Third World, America to India and the like, where rights in the former are in accord with God’s Natural Moral Law. It should be evident of the vindication of Catholicism by its works.

    We see the results of China that buttressed its self from the progress of Christian intuitiveness. that barricaded the profundity of Catholic intuition that pervaded the Free Word from entering its domestic domains of education and entrepreneurship. Anti-Catholicism is a prescription for anti-intellectualism, a journey into totalitarianism and despotism notwithstanding its fostering a virus of anti-intellectualism, and social repugnancy that warranted regression instead of progress.

    Hence, America before the assault on its Christian Heritage by the Secularists, the Feminist, the Clintons and Obamas, a heritage the Founding Fathers heavily relied on in writing our Bill of Rights, became the iconic symbol of civilization, as did Her teachings cause the Renaissance the peak of civilization until Protestantism’s individualism brought it to an end.

    Even the history of the Fall of the Roman Empire was due to its anthropocentricity and its disregard for Catholic Church, and a proclivity of manmade gods. Moreover Catholicism was responsible restoring human dignity to the Reign of Constantine the Great, and during the Middle Ages, The CC’s defense of human dignity is unequaled and no other w

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