Romney’s Mormonism a tough sell for Millenials

Scott Olson GETTY IMAGES Republican presidential candidate and former Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney speaks to supporters during a rally on … Continued

Scott Olson

GETTY IMAGES

Republican presidential candidate and former Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney speaks to supporters during a rally on November 10, 2011 in Troy, Michigan.

Last month, evangelical pastor Robert Jeffress’ disparaging comments about the Mormon faith generated heated debate about whether Mitt Romney would, or should, be dogged by a “Mormon problem” among Republican primary voters. The newly released American Values Survey, conducted by Public Religion Research Institute, reveals that there is serious ambivalence about his Mormon faith among white evangelical Protestants, a critical constituency in the Republican primaries. Nearly half (47 percent) of white evangelical Protestant voters say they would be at least somewhat uncomfortable with a Mormon becoming president.

But PRRI’s new survey also reveals that if Romney becomes the Republican nominee for president, he will be confronted by another, perhaps even more challenging, “M” problem: A majority of Millennial voters (ages 18-29) report being uncomfortable with the idea of a Mormon president.

The discomfort with a Mormon president among the Millennial generation is at first glance somewhat surprising. Millennials are the most diverse generation-racially, ethnically and religiously-in the nation’s history and are generally more accepting of religious pluralism than Americans overall. By a margin of more than 20 points, Millennial voters are significantly less likely than seniors (ages 65 an older) to say they would be uncomfortable with a Muslim president (50 percent vs. 74 percent) or an atheist president (56 percent vs. 77 percent). Yet when it comes to Mormons, these numbers are reversed: a majority of Millennial voters (54 percent) report being at least somewhat uncomfortable with a Mormon president, compared to less than four-in-ten (39 percent) senior voters.

So why are Millennials so ill at ease with the notion of a Mormon president? Given their broader acceptance of minority religious groups, Millennials’ anxiety over a Mormon president likely has less to do with the religious beliefs of Mormons (which is more at the heart of the matter for white evangelical Protestant misgivings) and more to do with the perceived political profile of Mormons and the LDS Church.

Generally, Millennials are more likely than the general population to identify as liberal, an attribute that correlates with higher rates of discomfort with a Mormon president. As a recent research note from PRRI plainly illustrates, Mormons are nearly identical to white evangelical Protestants on crucial policy issues, and their conservatism is well-known.

But Millennials’ concern about a Mormon president may also be connected to a particular political activity of the Mormon Church that can be traced back to 2008, when leaders of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints prominently supported California’s Proposition 8, a proposal that sought to eliminate the right of gay and lesbian couples to marry. The fact that the LDS Church and its members devoted considerable resources on a cause the runs counter to the values of most Millennials is apt to loom large in Millennials’ relatively short political memory.

As PRRI discovered in our recent report,
Generations at Odds: The Millennial Generation and the Future of Gay and Lesbian Rights
, Millennials ardently support gay and lesbian rights. There is at least a 20-point generation gap between Millennials and seniors (age 65 and up) on every measure in the survey concerning gay rights, including same-sex marriage, civil unions, and employment discrimination protections. Most importantly, the survey also found that support for gay and lesbian rights is a crucial symbolic issue for young adults. Nearly seven-in-ten (69 percent) Millennials agree that religious groups are alienating young people by being too judgmental about gay and lesbian issues.

As I wrote here at Figuring Faith a few weeks ago, in a dozen years, when today’s Millennials will be participating more fully in the political process, all GOP primary candidates will likely need to moderate their positions to be more supportive of gay and lesbian rights. While Romney’s Millennial problem is unlikely to haunt him in the 2012 primaries, it has the potential to be a liability in a close general election, if Millennials get energized enough to turn out again at record levels as they did in 2008.

About

Robert P. Jones Dr. Robert P. Jones is the CEO of Public Religion Research Institute and a leading scholar and commentator on religion, values, and public life.
  • skvanbibber

    I would not discount the impact that publicity about, and satire of, an array of bizarre Mormon beliefs and practices has had in shaping Millennial voters’ views of the LDS church.

    Heck, that South Park episode (Season 7, episode 12) by itself would be a pretty effective anti-Romney campaign ad.

  • Chilebean1

    It’s funny that people typically consider Mormons ultra-conservative. The two most liberal (or moderate) of the GOP candidates are Mormons. And the head of the senate, Senator Harry Reid, is also a Mormon. Heaven forbid calling that Mormon a conservative. It’s time to stop stereotyping Mormons. It’s difficult not to stereotype if you don’t personally know a Mormon, but if you don’t know a Mormon, go check out their official websites and learn more about these people.

    I now wait for a few inevitable bigoted responses to my comment.

  • bplatt

    Vanka:

    Here are the characteri¬stics of a cult:

    • Small? The Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) has 14 million members in 132 countries. In America, there are more Mormons than there are Presbyterians or Jews.

    • Excessive devotion? Mormons are devoted to the Savior, but in appropriate measure He would approve of.

    • Unethical techniques? Ask the pie-throwers to name one.

    • Control by isolation? Even if Mormons wanted to, this would be impossible with 14 million members in 28,000 congregations throughout the world. The Church is nearly the most racially, ethnically, culturally, diverse Church in the world…for those who want to say we are racist, etc. Why are thousands of black people joining this Church every year if we are racist?

    • Control by threats? Again, evidence? Mormon missionaries may be exuberant, but do not threaten.

    • Dependency on the group? The Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) is just the opposite. Mormons want members to be self-reliant and independent so they in turn can help others.

    • Powerful group pressure? Only if that’s the way the critics prefer to define Love.

    • Strange? Guilty as charged. Mormons plead guilty to all the strange things that were done by Christians in New Testament times that were lost during the great falling away in the aptly named Dark Ages, among them temple worship, vicarious baptism for the dead, definition of God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit as separate but united in purpose, salvation requiring both grace and obedience to commandments, prophets and apostles, unpaid clergy, and continual revelation to guide His Church.

  • bplatt

    I am happy to discuss with anyone on here the doctrines of polygamy or the Church’s stance on people of color (including the history of both topics). But I will only do so if the participants are willing to have an intelligent, un-bigoted conversation. I’m not going to try and reason with religious bigots who condemn this Church for falsehoods with a diarrhea of the mouth approach to the discussion.

    I will say this for now. People err, yes even Prophets. Peter denied Christ 3 times, is he condemned forever? Many of the Apostles (including Peter the Prophet or Senior apostle) considered the Gentiles to be unclean, until Peter received the revelation in Acts 10 where God commanded that the Gentiles was now to go unto the Gentiles as well as the Jews.

    Never has the Lord required His prophets to be Perfect. And yet in Amos 3:7 He lets us know that Nothing will be revealed to the world if not through a Prophet. So the Lord trusts imperfect men, who believe in Him, to perform miracles. As for Brigham Young, he was very outspoken and he gave his feelings on both of these topics, guided by his understanding at the time. Also, he was not speaking about the Church’s or the Lord’s policy on the matter, rather his own judgement on the topic. I don’t judge a Prophet of God. You can if you want. He did more good and performed more miracles than you or I could achieve in a hundred lifetimes, so I’ll let God chastise Brigham if need be.
    But one can disagree with the Prophet’s opinion and still consider him a Prophet, those two ideals are not mutually exclusive. The Church (not to mention Brigham Young University) are among the most internationally diverse organizations when it comes to culture, nationality, race, etc.

    By their fruits shall ye judge them. Just look at what good the Church has done consistently for nearly 200 years, then judge the whole body of faith and works. You will find good people striving to do good things.

  • Sajanas

    I feel a little kinship with this issue, because I used to be a Lutheran, and if you’re not aware of it, Martin Luther was a raving antisemite, a fact which Lutherans today largely ignore, but was historically very important. Mein Kampf quotes Martin Luther, and there is a long history of German antisemitism that Luther both drew from and re-enforced. Lutheranism is fortunate in that it never saw Luther as anything but a founder, so it was able to cherish his good arguments and ignore the bad. But at the same time, you cannot really get a fair view of Luther without realizing that while he was important, he would not have been considered a good person to modern eyes.

    In a way, it is very fortunate that Luther was not considered to be a Prophet, because I can imagine it must be very hard to distinguish between the ‘good’ Prophetic stuff and the ‘bad’ Prophetic stuff. When you do stuff like that, you’re really just using your own moral judgement rather than obeying the Prophet.

  • mwpalmer

    Vanka,

    This comment is really a reply. I place it here following your cleverly deceptive lead. At 11/12/2011 12:22 PM MST you ranted about personal attacks launched upon you, while there appeared “not a single” pointed defense in reply to your pointed accusations from 11/11/2011 11:42 AM MST – the original comment of this blog. So, why was your 11/12/2011 12:22 PM MST post included as a comment – clearly out of context? Possibly because at 11/11/2011 3:13 PM MST, some 21 hours before, I posted a reply to your original comment, and subsequent taunt, that contains no personal attack and specifically, albeit briefly, answers each of your charges. Who, we might ask, is the real deceiver here?

    Answer as you will and think whatever you will, but some can see and no obfuscation of words can change the truth.

    It seems you came here to expose the truth. I suppose, in a way, you did.

  • Vanka

    mwpalmer,

    Huh?

  • Vanka

    Nice of you to arbitrarily pull these “definitions of a cult” out of your… hat and show how Mormonism is NOT a “cult”.

    Are we supposed to be persuaded by such inane blather?

  • Vanka

    Mormons are not conservative nor liberal. They are chameleons who will take whatever form will give them the greatest chance of dominating the world.

  • Vanka

    For all the Mormon apologists, I recommend the article in the New York Times by Yale Professor Harold Bloom. He is making the same sort of point.

    Mormon Dominionism is a serious threat. In my view, it is Taliban in embryo.

  • bplatt

    So you are saying that those definitions are not what you think of when you think Cult. I actually combined dictionary definitions, with the perceived definitions of many (like you) who have attacked the Church of Jesus Christ on this premise. So I think it’s pretty comprehensive. If you’d like me to stick to the dictionary definition, it’s an even easier argument to make. Your choice.

    By the way, that was hardly a rebuttal.

  • bplatt

    Sajanas:

    Good analysis, thank you.

    Allow me to make my comment a bit more specific, just for clarification sake. Disagreeing can take on many forms. I don’t believe one can disagree with a Prophet to the point of criticizing him, and still believe he is a Prophet. However, if a Prophet explicitly states he is giving his opinion or thoughts on a topic, I don’t take it as doctrine and I am comfortable letting it be his opinion. I will usually give him every benefit of the doubt, for if he is truly the prophet of God, he will more likely than not be enlightened in everything he says. But he will never be perfect, so I don’t hold him to that standard. Only Christ the Lord was perfect and can have every word he spoke taken as pure truth and doctrine. That does not, however, devalue the need of having a Prophet on the earth today.

  • tiponeill

    This isn’t at all surprising – if you were to poll gay + lesbian voters you would fins an even stronger disapproval than among Millennials.

    The Mormon church is not just a “faith” but is a powerful political actor and has probably been the most effective anti-gay political force in the US.

    This won’t have much of an effect in Repub primaries, since the Repub base is also anti-gay, but in the general election voters who support gay rights will rightly take a candidates Mormonism into account.

  • mwpalmer

    What lovely trash the English professor makes. I tried using it for crow bait, but they just saw it as rubbish. So, I used it for fire fodder instead.

  • mwpalmer

    Oooh Vanka, you’re a sharp one.

  • Vanka

    What a wonderfully thoughtful and intelligent response from mwpalmer — NOT!

  • Vanka

    bplatt,

    You wrote:

    “I am happy to discuss with anyone on here the doctrines of polygamy or the Church’s stance on people of color (including the history of both topics).”

    You also wrote:

    “People err, yes even Prophets… Never has the Lord required His prophets to be Perfect.”

    A couple of points:

    1. Peter was not a “prophet”, and certainly not a prophet in the sense in which Mormons use that term.

    2. When/if Joseph Smith “erred”, was it in the whole idea of polygamy coming from God? Or was it when he had the “tawdry affair” with 14 year old Fannie Alger, whom he and Emma had “adopted” into their home as an orphan? You do know Oliver Cowdery was excommunicated because he called Joseph on this? Or did Joseph “err” in claiming to restore the doctrine of “plural wives” as part of the “New and Everlasting Covenant of Marriage”, but then foul up by being married to multiple women who were ALREADY MARRIED TO OTHER MEN, thereby creating UN-approved and NON-Biblical plural HUSBANDS?

    By their fruits ye shall know them. Yes, siree – look at the fruits of Joseph Smith’s “revelations”: Warren Jeffs and his cadre of pedophiles have been breeding and sexually abusing child brides for generations, as have a number of religious groups that follow the “Book of Mormon” and Joseph Smith’s teachings.

    More fruit? How about the perjury committed by Mormon “prophets” in testifying before US Congress that plural marriages had ended and were not being performed in LDS Temples, despite the fact that these same leaders personally and knowingly performed numerous documented plural marriages for as many as TEN YEARS after the Congressional testimony?

    More? How about the way the LDS Church ordered and funded Loren C. Dunn back in early 1990′s to secretly set up a “coalition” of various religions to “cultivate” the Office of the Attorney General in Hawaii, to secretly lobby, and to manipulate legislation on marriage equality in Hawaii as well as in California (Prop. 8) for over a decade, all in such a way a

  • Vanka

    bplatt,

    You wrote:

    “I am happy to discuss with anyone on here the doctrines of polygamy or the Church’s stance on people of color (including the history of both topics).”

    You also wrote:

    “People err, yes even Prophets… Never has the Lord required His prophets to be Perfect.”

    A couple of points:

    1. Peter was not a “prophet”, and certainly not a prophet in the sense in which Mormons use that term.

    2. When/if Joseph Smith “erred”, was it in the whole idea of polygamy coming from God? Or was it when he had the “tawdry affair” with 14 year old Fannie Alger, whom he and Emma had “adopted” into their home as an orphan? You do know Oliver Cowdery was excommunicated because he called Joseph on this? Or did Joseph “err” in claiming to restore the doctrine of “plural wives” as part of the “New and Everlasting Covenant of Marriage”, but then foul up by being married to multiple women who were ALREADY MARRIED TO OTHER MEN, thereby creating UN-approved and NON-Biblical plural HUSBANDS?

    By their fruits ye shall know them. Yes, siree – look at the fruits of Joseph Smith’s “revelations”: Warren Jeffs and his cadre of pedophiles have been breeding and sexually abusing child brides for generations, as have a number of religious groups that follow the “Book of Mormon” and Joseph Smith’s teachings.

    More fruit? How about the perjury committed by Mormon “prophets” in testifying before US Congress that plural marriages had ended and were not being performed in LDS Temples, despite the fact that these same leaders personally and knowingly performed numerous documented plural marriages for as many as TEN YEARS after the Congressional testimony?

    More? How about the way the LDS Church ordered and funded Loren C. Dunn back in early 1990′s to secretly set up a “coalition” of various religions to “cultivate” the Office of the Attorney General in Hawaii, to secretly lobby, and to manipulate legislation on marriage equality in Hawaii as well as in California (Prop. 8) for over a decade, all in such a way a

  • bplatt

    Evidence?

  • Vanka

    Nice. What an erudite reply!

  • Vanka

    Some things are so stupid as to not be worth dignifying with a rebuttal. Your comment is such a thing.

  • Vanka

    You asked for it.

    Evidence:

    Mormonism is a dominionism. It is at its core authoritarian, totalitarian, and fascist. Mormons have no place for “religious freedom” or tolerance for other people because of the following:

    1. The Whitehorse Prophecy
    Mormons believe their Founder, Joseph Smith, prophecied that “the US Constitution will hang by a thread”, and “an Elder in Zion” will ride in on a proverbial white horse and save the nation. When confronted about this, many Mormons will smile (or laugh) dismissively, saying “that is not official doctrine”. But they really do believe it. Despite this coming up in a Utah campaign (Senator Hatch), no Church member or leader has ever denied the Whitehorse Prophecy, and they make allusions to it frequently when complaining about the horrible state of “the world” and the US Government.

    2. Doctrine and Covenants 87:6
    “And thus, with the sword and by bloodshed…shall the inhabitants of the earth be made to feel the wrath, and indignation, and chastening hand of an Almighty God, until the consumption decreed hath made a full end of all nations;”

    Mormons believe all “man-made governments” are fundamentally corrupt and will be replaced by a theocracy – by THEIR theocracy! They believe THEY are “God’s hands” by which he will “end all nations”.

    What will replace the governments of nations?

    3. LDS Bible Dictionary:
    “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the kingdom of God on the earth, but is at the present limited to an ecclesiastical kingdom. During the millennial era, the kingdom of God will be both political and ecclesiastical, and will have worldwide jurisdiction in political realms when the Lord has made a full end of all nations”. (D&C76:110; 88:104)

    The LDS (Mormon) Church will supplant all governments and authorities throughout the world! What will happen to non-Mormons and non-believers?

    4. Doctrine and Covenants 1:14
    “…the day cometh that they who will not hear the voice of the Lord, neither the voice of

  • bplatt

    It’s the same pattern all of the anti-Mormon-ites use on every message board. They throw out snippets of half-truths and then create arguments around it, and they confound themselves by default because their arguments are so circular they end up back where they started. Never have I seen a Mormon hater take their argument to its logical conclusion using actual facts from the source. It makes me laugh, but it also makes me cry for them, because theirs are the works of darkness.

    People have been trying to disprove this religion for nearly 200 years. It will never happen, because it is founded upon Truth. Nothing we teach is contrary to the Bible or any of its teachings, and yet due to revelation to a modern day living Prophet, more has been added to enlighten those who seek after truth, and confound those who seek works of darkness.

  • bplatt

    Mr. Vanka:

    I said I would openly discuss with anyone who is not religiously bigoted and who does not employ a diarrhea of the mouth shotgun approach to this topic. Your comments are exactly that. NOTHING you said is accurate, even further reason why there is no point to discussing. As I said in an earlier post, all of you haters post with the same format: Gather a few snippets of facts (i.e. half-truths), a few quotes, and some juicy gossip, and then throw it into a mix and make an argument out of it. Have fun, but I’m not joining your charade (unless of course you want to have a civil and truth-based debate).

    Tell me, if you choose, were you a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints at some time in your life? If not, what caused you to be filled with such hate? Perhaps some rogue member of the Church offended you? Would be interesting to know, sincerely. There has to be a reason. I, and others on here, have done nothing but defend our Faith. We are not attacking yours. Whereas, you and others, just want to attack this Church, unprovoked I might add. Thus far all I know of you is that you hate this Church, but I’m yet to learn one thing about what YOU actually believe.

  • bplatt

    ok then, bitter much?

  • bplatt

    I have already answwered your point on this, but allow me to be clear. You tell a truth and a lie:

    Truth: Members of the Church of Jesus Christ, in conjunction with the Savior himself, will stand to lead the world during the Millineum.

    Lie: Members of the Church of Jesus Christ will cut off those who don’t believe. There is no doctrine to support this bold-faced Lie. In fact, the opposite is true. We believe ALL will be saved in varying degrees of glory depending upon their desires. The ONLY souls not saved are the Sons of Perdition, who are people who have had the Full Truth revealed unto them, and have apostatized and denied the Holy Ghost and the power therof. But this is all for God to judge. Ye tamper with holy matters.

    Again, I already said all of this, but you clearly didn’t read my post.

  • cjm5

    Tthis article is about the perspectives of a particular age group, ages 18-29.. My kids are that age; here are their details. During public school K-12, when it was time for silent reading the Mormon kids read The Book of Mormon. During middle and high schools, Mormon kids leave school for one period per day and go across the street or down the blockto the ward church for Seminary. Yes, there is a Mormon church across from every one of our middle and high schools in AZ. “Gentiles”, the Mormon term for all who are not Mormon, Jews included, are allowed to be brought to a Ward dance, but they have to meet with the bishop prior and pass inspection. Mormon kids always let you know they are Mormon; other kids don’t tend to broadcast this info. Then of course they have friends who are Mormon and gay who have been banished and disowned. I think it is important to learn what this age has to say because a lot of it may be under our radar.

  • Vanka

    bplatt,

    As expected, you sidestep the facts (that I have presented) and simply dismiss anyone who disagrees with you as a “hater”.

    Counter argue against the facts, if you can. I have presented the facts. I have supported it with scriptures, actual documented “prophecies”, and references.

    You use a typical Mormon apologetic technique: “What do YOU believe?” – so that you can change the focus of the discussion and attack the beliefs of your opponent, trying to show that THEIR beliefs are just as wacky as Mormon beliefs. But you fail to see the absurdity of that technique. If I say I believe in the Bible, then you counter with all the criticisms of the Bible, and say “The Book of Mormon is no worse than the Bible.”

    My beliefs are irrelevant to the discussion. What IS relevant is the simple FACTS that:

    1. The ultimate end towards which Mormonism is striving is WORLD DOMINATION. Period. That fact is sugar-coated, obscured, and tip-toed around, but is clearly and obviously found in LDS scriptures, “prophetic” utterances of LDS Church leaders, and the general teachings extant in virtually every LDS meeting, whether Sacrament Meeting, Gospel Doctrine, or General Conference, or the secret meetings of the Brethren in the Salt Lake Temple.

    2. “In the name of Jesus Christ”, Mormons seek to rule the world (for a thousand years), and will all be UNITED in belief (every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that the Mormon Jesus is the Christ).

    3. Those who refuse to submit to the Mormon ecclesiastical power – the power that, in preparation for the “Millennium” will become POLITICAL, SOCIAL, and ECONOMIC POWER – those who refuse to submit will be “cut off from among the people”. (Being “cut off” from a one-world governmental authority requires either banishment to outer space, the moon, or DEATH).

    I have given the references for these earlier in these posts. My references and their interpretations are reliable and sure.

    Was I ever a member of the LDS Church? No. Buy my wife is and has al

  • Vanka

    bplatt,

    You refuse to discuss my comments because you accuse me of being a “hater”? How very Christian of you! (Not).

    You wrote:

    “I ask any truth seeker: If this work is false, why after all of these years does it still stand despite having more persecution thrown at it than any other faith in the United States?”

    Can you answer the same question about Scientology? Islam? Masonry? Wiccans? According to your silly logic, anything that exists today must be TRUE! How about organized crime? How about Evolutionary Theory? There are so many ideas, institutions, and ideologies that survive today, how in the world can anyone claiming to be rational use that as evidence of its “truth”?

    You also wrote:

    “Any who truly want to know about this Church, just read the Book of Mormon, and ask God if it is true. It’s really that simple. Prayer is the only way to truly know for oneself.”

    I have read and studied the Book of Mormon for over 20 years (my wife is active LDS). I have prayed about it, fasted, studied it out, and done all the things “Moroni’s Promise” requires. I have even done extra things, recommended by LDS Stake Presidents and General Authorities. And after all that seeking “with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ that he will manifest the truth of it unto me the power of the Holy Ghost” – after all that, I have received NOTHING. No burning bosom. No still small voice. No visions or dreams or manifestations of “the Spirit”. I got NOTHING.

    But when I tell Mormons that I got nothing, what do they do? Do they kindly accept my “testimony” and treat me with respect and dignity?

    No way.

    Instead, they call me insincere, or lacking in real intent, or unworthy, or too proud, or too intellectual, or not intellectual enough. Invariably, they CONDEMN ME!

    That is no different than the condemnation heaped upon those who refused to “see” the Emperor’s New Clothes! (If you cannot “see” the beautiful new robes of the Emperor, YOU are “unworthy” of your place in society).

    What

  • Vanka

    Bitter?

    Only against judgmental jerks who are so eager to condemn as “insincere” or “unworthy” or as “haters” anyone and everyone who disagrees with them.

    Are you such a person?

  • Vanka

    bplatt wrote:

    “Truth: Members of the Church of Jesus Christ, in conjunction with the Savior himself, will stand to lead the world during the Millineum.

    Lie: Members of the Church of Jesus Christ will cut off those who don’t believe. There is no doctrine to support this bold-faced Lie. In fact, the opposite is true. We believe ALL will be saved in varying degrees of glory depending upon their desires. The ONLY souls not saved are the Sons of Perdition, who are people who have had the Full Truth revealed unto them, and have apostatized and denied the Holy Ghost and the power therof. But this is all for God to judge. Ye tamper with holy matters.”

    Who is lying?

    LDS Scriptures (“The Standard Works”) explicitly state:

    Doctrine and Covenants 1:14
    “…the day cometh that they who will not hear the voice of the Lord, neither the voice of his servants, neither give heed to the words of the prophets and apostles, shall be cut off from among the people;”

    To be “cut off from among the people” when the WHOLE WORLD is dominated by LDS must involve being sent to the moon or being killed! At very least, it means being marginalized, ostracized, and treated as a second class citizen, much the way gays and lesbians are treated today, and the way blacks were (are) treated up until 1978!

    Mormons expect to Rule the World:

    Doctrine and Covenants 87:6
    “And thus, with the sword and by bloodshed…shall the inhabitants of the earth be made to feel the wrath, and indignation, and chastening hand of an Almighty God, until the consumption decreed hath made a full end of all nations;”

    Mormons believe all “man-made governments” are fundamentally corrupt and will be replaced by a theocracy – by THEIR theocracy! They believe THEY are “God’s hands” by which he will “end all nations”.

    What will replace the governments of nations?

    LDS Bible Dictionary:
    “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the kingdom of God on the earth, but is at the present limited to an ecclesiastical kingdom. Durin

  • Vanka

    bplatt,

    You lie. Mormons “cut off” those who do not “obey” and “hearken” every day. They ostracize, disfellowship, excommunicate, and distance themselves from anyone who disagrees with the Mormon hierarchy and authority. They muzzle scholars, threatening professors at BYU with termination if they speak out or publish anything that disagrees with the LDS Church leaders. I have seen it with my own eyes! The LDS Church is truly a totalitarian, fascist cult that is to be feared.

  • Vanka

    The “dirt” I provided is directly from YOUR canonized scriptures and history.

    Just because someone is GOOD at being a charlatan does not mean they are not a charlatan.

  • Vanka

    bplatt,

    So you don’t believe in the Doctrine and Covenants? You don’t believe the scriptures I quoted? You don’t believe that Mormons go through the Temples to receive their “endowments” (being given power from on High) wherein they are:

    “…anointed to become hereafter kings and priests unto the most high God, to rule and reign in the house of Israel forever.”

    The “House of Israel” is the Kingdom of God on Earth – i.e., the Mormon Church!

    “SECOND LECTURER: Brethren, you have been washed and pronounced clean, or that through your faithfulness you may become clean, from the blood and sins of this generation. You have been anointed to become hereafter kings and priests unto the most high God, to rule and reign in the house of Israel forever.

    Sisters, you have been washed and anointed to become queens and priestesses to your husbands.

    Sisters, you have been washed and anointed to become hereafter queens and priestesses to your husbands.

    Brethren and sisters, if you are true and faithful, the day will come when you will be chosen, called up, and anointed kings and queens, priests and priestesses, whereas you are now anointed only to become such.”

    Mormons go through the Temples in order to be anointed and eventually ordained to assume leadership roles in the ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT of the MORMON Church! The THEOCRACY that eliminates all other political, social, and economic powers and authorities and dominates the world for 1,000 years.

    Mitt Romney and his wife, Ann, made these covenants and were anointed to become Kings and Queens, Priests and Priestesses unto the Most High (Mormon) God, to rule and reign in the kingdom of god on earth!

    Do you deny that faithful Mormon leaders and elite persons receive their “Second Anointing”:

    The second anointing is an extension of the initiatory. One could say, in fact, that the second anointing completes the initiatory: where the initiatory promises future blessings contingent on initiates’ faithfulness, the second anointing actually bestows thos

  • Vanka

    bplatt,

    So you don’t believe in the Doctrine and Covenants? You don’t believe the scriptures I quoted? You don’t believe that Mormons go through the Temples to receive their “endowments” (being given power from on High) wherein they are:

    “…anointed to become hereafter kings and priests unto the most high God, to rule and reign in the house of Israel forever.”

    The “House of Israel” is the Kingdom of God on Earth – i.e., the Mormon Church!

    “SECOND LECTURER: Brethren, you have been washed and pronounced clean, or that through your faithfulness you may become clean, from the blood and sins of this generation. You have been anointed to become hereafter kings and priests unto the most high God, to rule and reign in the house of Israel forever.

    Sisters, you have been washed and anointed to become queens and priestesses to your husbands.

    Sisters, you have been washed and anointed to become hereafter queens and priestesses to your husbands.

    Brethren and sisters, if you are true and faithful, the day will come when you will be chosen, called up, and anointed kings and queens, priests and priestesses, whereas you are now anointed only to become such.”

    Mormons go through the Temples in order to be anointed and eventually ordained to assume leadership roles in the ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT of the MORMON Church! The THEOCRACY that eliminates all other political, social, and economic powers and authorities and dominates the world for 1,000 years.

    Mitt Romney and his wife, Ann, made these covenants and were anointed to become Kings and Queens, Priests and Priestesses unto the Most High (Mormon) God, to rule and reign in the kingdom of god on earth!

    Do you deny that faithful Mormon leaders and elite persons receive their “Second Anointing”:

    The second anointing is an extension of the initiatory. One could say, in fact, that the second anointing completes the initiatory: where the initiatory promises future blessings contingent on initiates’ faithfulness, the second anointing actually bestows thos

  • mackall_130

    Finally… a person well studied in the mormon religion that chooses to talk about this crap and recognize it for what it is. I almost wish romney gets more light… so the rest of america learn how the mormon religion is a wannbe racist, fascist regime whose own founder forced his people to say a prayer so treasonous to the US that bin laden himself couldnt have put it better. don’t be quiet vanka! you should write a book.

  • mackall_130

    excellent point bplatt. christianity has an equally bigoted and violent past. stop using another made up book to prove your point.

  • bplatt

    Vanka:

    Where to start:

    1) I never attacked your beliefs. Refusing to discuss sacred things with you is not equivalent to persecuting you. I don’t even know what you believe, so how could you feel persecuted? All I have done is defend my faith, and I challenge you to show me otherwise. If you’re arguing whether you hate the Mormon church, the Church your wife is an active member in, that’s hardly a debate. Just read your posts back to yourself.

    2) Temple ceremonies are not under debate because I will not discuss things I hold sacred with one who has no regard for their importance.

    3) You continue to hammer this point about World dominance, but you refuse to acknowledge the ACTUAL Mormon doctrine on Salvation. Read Section 76 of the Doctrine and Covenants, and then read Paul’s discussion of Celestial, Terrestrial, and Telestial glories in Corinthians, then we can have this discussion. I know you will dodge this, so I am sure we will not be having this discussion. FACT: We believe ALL will have salvation in a kingdom of Glory, with the exception of a very small group who deny the Holy Ghost. I have already said this, but you apparently skipped over it. You take the Doctrine and Covenants out of context every time you speak, so for any who want to read in context, go to http://WWW.LDS.ORG Menu>Scriptures>Doctrine and Covenants. I hope you get as much enjoyment and knowledge from these sacred revelations as I do.

    4) Back on World Dominance, since this is your favorite topic. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints proclaims to be the true Church of Jesus Christ on the earth today. Either it is, or it isn’t. I testify by the power of the Holy Ghost that it is. In the Doctrine and Covenants, Jesus himself in the first Section states this. Again, take it or leave it, but the record stands on its own accord. Further, Jesus will reign politically as King over the World during the Millennium (as the Jews thought he would do during his First visit). This is al

  • bplatt

    Anyone can take snippets from the Bible or other scriptures and make whatever they want of them. There is no limit to the creative powers of the adversary. Just like in the early days of the Church, conspiring men and women stole 116 pages of the translated Book of Mormon manuscript. They were so excited and devised an evil plan. They doctored the manuscript and made enough changes so that when Joseph Smith would publish the record they could discredit him by publishing their own account. Well little did they know that the Lord knew of their secret plan of darkness, which is why he had prepared over 2000 years before that time another record of the same events (but by a different prophet) that Joseph could insert and not lose any doctrinal or historical significance. Thus he could publish the truth and thwart his enemy at the same time.

    Men like you have been trying for over 200 years to take down this Church or the Prophet Joseph, but you will never succeed. He has sealed his testimony with his own blood and he continues to perpetuate this work from the other side of the veil. One day, if you have a chance to meet him, I hope he forgives you for the lies you tell. I don’t doubt he has already forgiven you, as he was one of the most forgiving men to walk the earth. People beat him and spit on him and he still forgave them. One famous instance he was dragged from his home, tarred and feathered, poisoned, and left for dead. One of his twins died from exposure to the cold that night. And the next morning he preached to the people a message of love and forgiveness. In other instances, mob members joined the Church after they witnessed Joseph’s resolve and love for them.

    So feel free to judge, that is your right, but it doesn’t mean you won’t be held accountable in the day of judgement.

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