Peter King’s Muslim hearings

Here’s how Representative Peter King’s plans to host a congressional inquiry into Muslim radicalization could help the country – enhancing … Continued

Here’s how Representative Peter King’s plans to host a congressional inquiry into Muslim radicalization could help the country – enhancing public safety and strengthening social cohesion.

First, King can conduct a public study of the path to radicalization of various high-profile American Muslim extremists over the past few years (Fort Hood, Times Square, Portland Christmas Tree Lighting). Mostly likely, he will find that most were ‘self-radicalized’ through online engagement – watching the videos of Anwar Al-Awlaki, reading the terrorist magazine Inspire.

This is no doubt a serious problem. It appears that a small number of young Muslim men are sitting in basements watching and reading twisted material online that tells them to kill others. Some take the next step, and try.

Second, Peter King can shine a light on the role that the mainstream Muslim community has played in these attacks. By and large, it has been to help prevent them. Mainstream American Muslims have been vigilant against extremists in their communities – confronting their views, flushing them out and if need be reporting them to law enforcement.

A Muslim Public Affairs Council study found that American Muslim communities had played a central role in helping law enforcement prevent seven of the last ten Al Qaeda related plots. How did the FBI get turned on to Mohamed Osman Mohamud, the young man who planned to attack the Christmas Tree Lighting in Portland? His Muslim father reported him.

King should repeat those points over and over. The pattern of extremism amongst American Muslim is ‘self-radicalization’ online. The American Muslim community has been a strong partner in changing the views of potential extremists or disrupting their dangerous actions.

King should help the country draw the obvious conclusion from these two points: let’s reduce the number of people who self-radicalize online, let’s lift up the good work of the mainstream American Muslim community and let’s strengthen our partnerships so we keep our nation safe. Doing anything else is bad for the country.

Saying ugly, bigoted things about Islam is bad for the country (just like saying ugly, bigoted things about another religion or race or tradition is bad for the country). It gives the online radicals more stuff to put in their videos and write about in their magazines. Suggesting that mainstream American Muslims are part of the problem instead of part of the solution is both false and bad for the country. Why would you blame a group that’s manifestly on your side?

Anytime those two things come up in the course of the inquiry, Representative King should say: “I will not stand for bigoted things to be said about a great religion and an American community.”

Peter King can do the nation a great service – giving us an accurate view of the problem, and strengthening the solution.

Will he?

About

  • rentianxiang

    “It appears that a small number of young Muslim men are sitting in basements watching and reading twisted material online that tells them to kill others.”And where do these websites and online imams get their inspiration? Which texts are they referencing to justify their views? Is it possibly the Quran and the hadith that are providing the “theological” justification and/or obligation to resort to violence? Once again, Eboo, just like the rest of the apologists out there, is avoiding some central issues with respect to radicalization of Muslims: justification and inspiration for violence in the name of Islam is found in Islam’s texts that are merely referenced and “interpreted” by imams such as al Awlaki. Why don’t we see radical Mormons blowing themselves up and hijacking planes to defend their religion from non-Mormon imperialism? Why don’t we see a bunch of radical Buddhists committing suicide attacks against meat-eaters? Look at the terrorists, find the variables that are common among them, and then you will have your answers as to what is inspiring the violence: the Quran and the hadith.

  • AKafir

    Eboo writes: “It appears that a small number of young Muslim men are sitting in basements watching and reading twisted material online that tells them to kill others.”It is not twisted material online that they read and want to follow. It is the Koran and the Sunnah of Muhammad that tells them to oppress the Non-Muslims, and those who try to resist should be killed. It is not a small number of young Muslims who wish to do that; It is a significant fraction of young Muslim men around the world.I hope Peter King is able to shine a light on how non-Muslims are oppressed and hated in all Muslim countries around the world and they are hated because of Islam and its Sharia. Those who call Islam a great religion should take the time to see how much hatred it projects for the non-Muslims, and how badly the non-Muslims have been treated and are treated in the Muslim world. Muslims have grown with a supremacist psychology and truly do not know how to live in a global world with people of other faiths as equals. Example: From the Official Malaysian government site:Press Statement Institute Of Islamic Understanding Malaysia (IKIM) on Religious Pluralism15/12/2010 |Firstly, Islam rejects religious pluralism which claims that all religions are equally true and equally good.Secondly, only one religion possesses the perfect and complete revelation, that is, Islam (see the Qur’an, Al-Maidah, 5:3).And this is in moderate Malyasia. The treatment of the Kafirs is much worse in the more forceful Islamic nations of Iran, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Egypt, Sudan, Libiya, Afghanistan, etc. etc.

  • iamamerican

    HAPPY EVERYDAY WORLD (like a Birthday!)

  • AKafir

    The same psychological desire to oppress the Kafirs infects the American Muslims. Take a look at what ICNA (Islamic Circle of North America) wants for the American and Canadian Kafirs:Eboo is a member of ICNA. Is that what Eboo considers interfaith dialog?

  • FarnazMansouri2

    Akafir, I went to the actual ICNA website and noticed a PDF on Jamaat e Islami. Apparently it dates from Dec. 2, 2010 and is an encomium to that political party.A number of the other links given on the site you post go back twelve years and more, and so I gave them a pass. The hymn to Jamaat e Islami is three weeks old.Eboo, what does this mean?

  • abrahamhab1

    Muslims are their self’s worst enemies. They kept threatening to “throw Israel into the sea” until Israel threw them into the desert. Now their clerics are publicly threatening to conquer and subjugate the West,” just like they had Persia and Byzantium”. They have missed Socrates wise advice of “Know thyself”, and their self is deluded. Their primary loyalty is to their Ummah, Nation of Islam, and that is part of their creed. Until that attitude changes nothing in their behavior will change.

  • AKafir

    “A number of the other links given on the site you post go back twelve years and more, and so I gave them a pass.”The supremacist ideology that Islam preaches has not changed a bit for over 1400 years. The Pact of Umar over 1400 hundred years ago institutionalised the oppression and hatred for the non-Muslim that Allah commands in the Koran. Unfortunately, it matters little whether the references are twelve hundred years old, or twelve years old, or twelve days old, for the central theme of hate and kill the Kafirs has been and is a constant of Islam.

  • Carstonio

    This type of radicalization doesn’t happen in a vacuum. Simply reading something like Inspire won’t magically turn any Muslim into a terrorist, any more than reading the Turner Diaries would turn a Christian into a racist. The likely cause is probably not much different from the serial killer mentality. A combination of alienation and dysfunction can make a person vulnerable to narratives that purport to explain everything about the person’s life that doesn’t make sense. These narratives aren’t the religious teachings themselves, but the interpretations of them with a focus on a victim mentality. Such a disaffected Muslim can readily accept the idea that Westerners and Jews are responsible for his life being rotten. It’s the same phenomenon that would lead a disaffected believer in Jesus to a hate group like Christian Identity.

  • Kingofkings1

    Eboo,Another point: be careful. especially of the oppportunistic individuals from your own group, rather than your avowed enemy (Rushdie, Manji, Hirsi Ali, Wafa Sultan, and Kafir). They tend to enjoy the special favors placed on them by the enemies of Islam, and tend to outdo even their own patrons in the extent of their hate and anti-islamism. We have seen this kind of behavior in a number of groups; with another notable historical figure being the individual most responsible for the cruelties inflicted on jews during the spanish inquisition reported to have been himself a former jew.

  • Kingofkings1

    Eboo,Another point: be careful. especially of the oppportunistic individuals from your own group, rather than your avowed enemy (Rushdie, Manji, Hirsi Ali, Wafa Sultan, and Kafir). They tend to enjoy the special favors placed on them by the enemies of Islam, and tend to outdo even their own patrons in the extent of their hate and anti-islamism. We have seen this kind of behavior in a number of groups; with another notable historical figure being the individual most responsible for the cruelties inflicted on jews during the spanish inquisition reported to have been himself a former jew.

  • asizk

    Ebo,

  • AKafir

    KoK1 refuses to address any of the facts that are raised and links provided, but writes as if he is wronged and is the victim. Jamaat Islami was complicit in the genocide of millions of Bangalis in Bangladesh in 1971The same Islamist party has created havoc in Pakistan, and clearly has great influence on the largest American Muslim Organisation ICNA and is calling for the return of the Khalifa and oppression of American Kafirs. Instead of addressing any of this, KoK1 is castigating the apostates of Islam because they choose to warn the American Kafirs and makes comparisons to the Grand inquistor. Who have the apostates killed? The muslim countries are putting apostates of Islam to death. The apostates that KoK1 names have not hurt anyone or attacked anyone. But in KoK1′s world they are the villans, and the party and people who actually committed genocide because Bengalis were half hindus are acceptable because they are Muslims?

  • areyousaying

    Peter King is a vile Donohue Catholic theocon: Anti-Islam comments

  • areyousaying

    King says nothing about his pervert priests but had a lot to say about Michael JacksonMichael Jackson(this and my previous post from Wikipedia)

  • FarnazMansouri2

    A word on Doggy Azisk’s racism. None of the bloggers here is Jewish, save for me, and my concern is with Eboo’s apparent membership in an organization that strongly supports Jamaat e Islami.Doggy Azisk is encouraged to get ts doggy mom to use google to look up Jamaat e Islami and to explain it it.Doggy has the word “indigenous,” courtesy of me. It refers to the 85,000 indigenous peoples of Indonesia whom the Muslims have not yet slaughtered. Doggy Azisk is not to worry, however, since his co-Muslims are still at murdering INdonesia’s indigenes.The indigenous peoples of Israel are, of course, the Jews, whose land is still under Muslim occupation, for the most part. True the genocidal Muhammad killed many of them and many of the pagans, but not all.Back to peeing in the yard now, Doggy Azisk. Lesson over.

  • FarnazMansouri2

    Eboo,Jamaat e Islami is responsible for the murder of a dear friend’s nephew.What do you have to say?

  • FarnazMansouri2

    Eboo,Jamaat e Islami killed my friend Ahsan’s grandfather during the war with Pakistan.Well, Eboo?

  • FarnazMansouri2

    Eboo,Jamaat e Islami got hold of a female friend’s mobile number, left obscene messages on it, and I mean filthy, threatened her and her family. She is a professor.Eboo?

  • FarnazMansouri2

    KOK,I thought you were referring to Torqemada, who was reported to have been a convert from Islam. Will try to scan in the referent.Isabella and Ferdinand–I don’t know where you dig up this Krap.Columbus may in fact have been Jewish–there is much more evidence of this, but still it is sketchy, IMO.Beware of taking one opinion as fact. Jamaat e Islami is a fact and a bloody one, bloody as hell. If Eboo is a member of an organization that supports these murderers, and it appears he is, I’d like to know about it. Really, I would.

  • FarnazMansouri2

    KOK,Spanish Catholics have adduced evidence that Bartolomeo de las Casas was a converso, but, again, I’m not convinced, a converso from Judaism, that is.Goat a suggestion. Stop persecuting us and we’ll all be fine.And quit using bromides. You’re too intelligent for that.

  • AKafir

    The Muslims KoK1 and Asizk cannot bring themselves to address the hatred that Islam has for the Non-Muslims. They insist on lying and playing the victim as did their prophet Muhammad. Playing the victim is deeply embedded in the psychology of the Muslims because of the lies of Muhammad.KoK1 cites Torquemada as one of the persecuting majority “(even if it is against their own group) such as Torquemada”. Now all that can be said of the Grand inquisitor is “Torquemada appears to have had Jewish ancestry: the contemporary historian Hernando del Pulgar, writing of Torquemada’s uncle Juan de Torquemada, said that his ancestor Alvar Fernández de Torquemada had married a first-generation Jewish conversa (convert). Del Pulgar was a converso himself. Also, according to biographer Thomas Hope’s book, Torquemada, Torquemada’s grandmother was a conversa.”So KoK1 shows the symptomatic anti-Semitism that is pervasive among Islam because Allah’s favorite hate is for the Jews. One drop of jewish blood is enough for some one to be a Jew? So his grandmother was a convert and he is a Jew? How revolting! How despicable!Which muslim is not a convert from some non-Muslim? How many generations away is KoK1 from the najjas non-muslims? Is that why he hates them passionately as commanded by his allah?

  • FarnazMansouri2

    Torquemada is relevant how? According to Miranda Vasquez, his maternal grandmother converted from Islam.And Khomeini, Shah, wife-killer Zardari, beheading House of Saud? MUslim persecutors all, not to mention Jamaati e Islami, from what did they convert?Stated differently, but at the level of the “issue,” who gives a FF?Frankly, I don’t care whether or not Casas was a converso, himself, although the arguments are surely flattering.What difference does it make? What matters is that he saw light where before he had been in moral night.Jamaat e Islami, however, has not seen light.Eboo?

  • Kingofkings1

    Here is information for haters:by Laurence Brown

  • Kingofkings1

    (Cont’d)Islam

  • FarnazMansouri2

    with another notable historical figure being the individual most responsible for the cruelties inflicted on jews during the spanish inquisition reported to have been himself a former jew.Posted by: Kingofkings1 | December 24, 2010 1:10 AM That, however, is irrelevant to the three-week-old encomium to the Jamaat e Islami found on the web site Akafir references.I had not expected to find anything like that I confess. I thought, perhaps, Akafir misunderstood. He did not.EBOO, if you are a member of this group that supports a party that continues to bring death to so many, you need to explain. Please.

  • FarnazMansouri2

    KOK:On your muslim racism, a word. Akafir is not Jewish. I don’t think he’s muslim either.Whatever he may be is irrelevant. At issue is what he says, not whether he is Jewish, or Christian, or muslim.

  • FarnazMansouri2

    Judaism answers the big questions of life. Perhaps, that is the reason that Islam is so indebted to it, the reason that Moses is the prophet about which the Quoran has most to say. Like Judaism, Islam is not a creedal religion, but a way of life. As all major Muslim scholars have said, Islam is far closer to Judaism than it is to Christianity.Judaism, however, is not insecure and does not seek converts, although it welcomes those who choose to become Jews.KOK, try to purge your heart of racist hatred, and get back to us. Right now, you are not a good spokesperson for your belief. Muslim Jew haters never are.

  • FarnazMansouri2

    Of course, Quoran dishonors the prophets, makes a mess of their lives (peace be upon them–the phrase is originally ancient Hebrew), particularly of Moshe (Moshe Rabeinu), but one ignores it. It’s horrible.

  • FarnazMansouri2

    As a gentile, KOK, you are only required to follow the Noachide Code, the universal code for human, which includes Thou Shalt not Steal. Start there.Do not concern yourself with Moshe (Moshe Rabeinu). He is too advanced for you.

  • Jihadist

    It used to be America’s “war against communism” and there was McCarthyism. Now, it is America’s “war on Islam” and there is a proposed to be Kingism. King’s hearings would go down well with Christian conservatives and Tea Partyists of a certain ilk who conflated liberalism with socialism with Islam as threats to America.

  • Arif2

    Muslims wherever they immigrate or reside are “American Muslims”, “British Muslims”, “French Muslims”… This is what distinguishes them and their host countries, in other words muslims can never make good citizens. The only good Muslim is a bad one. They can never be Americans or British or German, they are Muslims. I used to work for the Jamaat-i-Islami, their ideology is spread of Islam through any means, violence is always prefered. They destroyed Pakistan through the universities. They are all over the universities in the West the Canada’s and US. They hate and they get that from Maulana Maudidi (lived his last years and died in the US, wanted to be buried in SA but was refused and body was sent back to Paki), and the Maulana got HATE from the koran. Its all there.WILL HE?

  • FarnazMansouri2

    Arif2,Jamati Islami is, indeed, all over Pakistan, throughout the universities, along with Taliban and Taliban sympathizers.I know academics who have been threatened and harassed by them. And all this was done by the corrupt and incompetent Zardari, for reasons known only to his incompetent and corrupt self.The question raised here however his what Eboo is doing as a member of an organization that apparently supports them strongly.EBOO, please explain. If we misunderstand, let us know.

  • AKafir

    Jihadist writes: “King’s hearings would go down well with Christian conservatives and Tea Partyists of a certain ilk who conflated liberalism with socialism with Islam as threats to America.”The moderate Muslimah, Jihadist, from the moderate Muslim country of Malaysia has not a single word to say about her own country’s systematic oppression of Kafirs, but feels compelled to belly ache about Americans trying to determine the complexity of Islam publicly as a “war on Islam”.

  • FarnazMansouri2

    In taking a look at this board, KOK, I see one Jew, others of other faiths, and one Jew-hater, you.To question Jamaat e Islami is not to be a hater of Islam or Muslims, but to be a lover of both. You would not know that because you are a bigot and do not care how many people die because of that Hashem forsaken party.You are one of them, and you are an antisemite.Try another way:I know that my Redeemer lives, and that in the end he will stand upon the earth. Job 19:25Know therefore that the Lord your God is God; he is the faithful God, keeping his covenant of love to a thousand generations of those who love him and keep his commands. Deuteronomy 7:9The Spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life. Job 33:4The Lord bless you and keep you; the Lord make his face shine upon you and be gracious to you; The Lord turn his face toward you and give you peace. Numbers 6:25-26Peace on earth, KOK.

  • Kingofkings1

    RE: Peace on earth.Stop calling people names and belittling them, because they won’t die the way you like them to die.Lots of haters here. No names necessary. Can’t you guys find a better topic?

  • abrahamhab1

    KOK says:But we are told by Muslim scriptures that humans are mere puppets, who play a role subscribed to them by Allah before creation and recorded in a tablet somewhere in heaven.

  • FarnazMansouri2

    RE: Peace on earth.Stop calling people names and belittling them, because they won’t die the way you like them to die.Lots of haters here. No names necessary. Can’t you guys find a better topic?Posted by: Kingofkings1Peace on earth did begin with me. I’m not Quorayza. I won’t die easy. Stop trying to kill me. Stop vilifying me. Stop your Jew-hating and Jew-bating ways.Do not defend the indefensible. Religion of peace? SHOW ME.

  • Kingofkings1

    Farnaz Mansouri,A very nice record of peace indeed

  • Kingofkings1

    Regarding Racism and hatred of the other and the others’ religion:Take this board as a cross sectional sample, and it is a good one. Look closely at how many christians, jews, and atheists have maligned islam in these few messages. Look again and see how many muslims have maligned their haters’ religion or the founders of their religion. Let an objective recorder calculate the score. This is representative of society in general.Islam teaches its adherents to invite others to the religion of God in a non-threatening and respectful manner, without maligning the entities that others hold sacred. Can you say the same for Jerry Falwell, Avigdor Lieberman, and the speech in 2006 in Germany by pope Benedict, and yourself?PS, FarnazMansouri has got it wrong. I have no hatred for anyone. I do dislike the behavior of some individuals, especially of the abrasive nature

  • beautiful-mind

    █▀█░██░█▀█░█▀░██

  • AKafir

    KoK1 writes: “So don’t trust me—trust our Creator. Read the Qur’an; read books and study this website. But whatever you do, get started, take it seriously, and pray for our Creator to guide you.I have read the Koran, and I do take it very very seriously. Have you? Why does your Allah knowingly create the majority of humans to be condemned to be tortured in Hell? The majority of mankind has always been non-Muslims. You were citing Mother Terrasa the other day, and your Mullah Zakir Naik says she is going to hell because that is what the Koran says. Maybe those who do not know Islam as well as I do may give your post a second glance. You claim the scriptures of the Jews and the Christians are corrupted. Here is a challenge for you. State for yourself when were they corrupted and in what way. Go ahead state a corruption unambiguously. Now copies of those scriptures are available from well before the time of Muhammad, and very close to the time of the claimed revelations. Show where have Muslims ever shown that these scriptures have been corrupted in any manner at all. There are so many errors in the Koran that only a mindless believer can possibly take it to be the word of an all knowing deity. Allah cannot even get the simply biology of procreation right. Which fluid drop comes rushing out from between the spine and the ribs from which man is created according to your allah?And because you and other muslims are psychologically and intellectually incapable of seeing the simple idiocy in a 7th century manual, you feel compelled to support the killers and haters of non-Muslims around the world! Is that what you are telling the people to follow?

  • Kingofkings1

    FarnazMansouri,

  • FarnazMansouri2

    Peace, if it hever occurs in the middle east, is going to require reassessment of some basic ideas held by the warring factions in relation to historical facts and not innuendo. Let it begin with you.Posted by: Kingofkings1 A reassessment would mean return for us exiled three million Jews, restoration of our property etc., not to mention the same for Christians, et al.A reassessment might be a start but it will take far more than that. I’m not going to get into a battle with you about Quorayza. Maybe, one day, I’ll give you a link to an article I published in an academic journal. Armstrong never responded. The past is the present. Let the peace begin with you. Thus far, most of what you write is antisemitic, and, frankly, I’m not even sure you believe what you write.How could anyone writing on this thread assume that the other threaders are Jews? I am the only Jew who currently blogs at this site, OnFaith.I’d think about that and what you’re rage says about you.Let it begin with you.I’m sick of the hate, and the killing, and raping, and starving of ALL PEOPLES.It has begun with me. I raised funds for Pakistan in staggering amounts. I teach there at least once every two years.LEt it begin with you.

  • abrahamhab1

    Kok says:Translated this means if a man believes in the teachings of Mohammad he would enjoy an afterlife that will have plenty of what was missing in the deserts of 7th Century Arabia; rivers of wine and honey and a continual and everlasting orgy with countless number of 30 old virgin beauties.

  • FarnazMansouri2

    Aye, fight! But not your neighbor. Fight rather all the things that cause you and your neighbor to fight.– Mikhail Naim

  • FarnazMansouri2

    Didn’t want to get into the Armstrong business, but the serious don’t think her serious, on anything(because she isn’t). Gives new meaning to the word “lightweight,” and should consider replacing writing with another pastime, say, house painting.

  • AKafir

    KoK1,Do YOU think Mother Teresa or Sister Pfau, both catholic and hence both believers in the Trinity, an obvious Shirk, will be denied entry to heaven according to Islam? You should be able to answer that honestly.

  • FarnazMansouri2

    Of course, religion of peace wise, I haven’t yet gotten to massacres of Jews in Hebron (August 1929), Jerusalem (February 1948), and Kfar Etzion (May 1948), the tip of the iceberg in Muslim mass murder of Jews, and I mean the tip. A romp through the fifties, sixties, etc., until a few months ago will nearly catch us up.There we shall see not only pogroms but public hangings and the like, as well as deportations, forced exiles, theft, etc., leading to the exile of three million Middle East Jews, not to mention a couple of million Christians, Hindus, B’hai, Muslims.The links I posted are two among many I could have. Somalia gets bloodier by the day. And then there are the Somalian would-be terrorists in Holland.The religion of peace seeks to make the world a warsaw ghetto. But the ROP should be aware that a handful of starving Jews held out against the Nazis for longer than than the nation of France.Jes’ sayin’Religion of peace. Very peaceful.KOK, purge your heart of your racism and hatred and then get back to us. We Kafirs don’t die that easy. And wanting to destroy us is not good for the soul. Take a walk, read a book, enjoy the beauty of this world.Get to know Jews, Christians, Hindus–make them your friends. Happy new year to you and your family.

  • abrahamhab1

    Kingkong preaches to me thus;“Abrahamahab1, here is something to help you to get to know yourself a little better:” and list a number of Old Testament verses that incite violence. How is that supposed to help me know myself better? If anything those incitements were directed at my Canaanite ancestors. They were exhortations by Hebrew prophets to conquer Caanan who they believe, and your Quran confirms, was deeded to them by Allah. It was a one time historical conflict that was ended 3500 years ago and not a standing command for perpetual wars against those who do not believe in the prophet hood of Mohammad.

  • Kingofkings1

    RE: hatred and extreme hatredJust because a schizophrenic is able to formulate a method of communication to shock and elicit an intended reaction, does not mean a sane individual is obliged to react.For those who to purchase the life of this world at the expense of the greater meaning of life: you are sadly mistaken. Enjoy!!!!

  • FarnazMansouri2

    Finally, humiliating the symbols others hold as sacred or nonsacred symbols others hold in esteem, in my view, is the mark of an individual who has sunk to the lowest depths – and with whom I have no intention of associating in any manner or responding to thier provocations.Posted by: Kingofkings1YOU CAN DO THIS. Respect for the beliefs of others begins with YOU. ONly with you, and with no one else.

  • FarnazMansouri2

    Additionally, I don’t appreciate Farnazmansouri’s projections of her thoughts onto myself. I have never assumed that the majority of denigrating responses are from jewish individuals, much less relayed that to the other participants.There is real evil in this man. Real evil.

  • FarnazMansouri2

    On this blog, King of King’s only enemy is King of King’s.Good luck to you, Ramses.OzymandiasI met a traveller from an antique land–Shelley

  • greg3

    It seems to me that hearings on US Muslims should dovetail with immigration hearings in general. The vast majority of immigrants coming to the US are from countries that hate the US, which is why Democrats like them so much. At best, immigrants become citizens with dual loyalties, but in the case of Muslims, they clearly pledge their loyalty to fellow Muslims over American citizens of different faith. And a scary 10% condone terrorism to impose Sharia Law on everyone.

  • SiddiqueMalik

    There we go, again. A Muslim is already scared of these hearings, and has started to plant ideas and stories in minds that might get involved with the hearings. Look at Mr. Patel’s suggestion to Rep. King that King should declare that “I will not stand for bigoted things to be said about a great religion and an American community.” Should everything that will be said be pre-cleared by Mr. Patel? That’s exactly what the problem is among Muslims. They just cannot tolerate free speech, hence their never-ending quandaries. Please stop making utterly inaccurate statements that none of the Muslim parents in America brainwash their children into adopting rigidity. Many do, and Mr. Patel knows that. Rigidity is the mother of all hate-related crimes, and terrorism is an advanced stage of hatred of diversity. Mr. Patel is a propagandist-apologist for rigid Muslim parents; with whom America’s Muslim community — especially immigrant Muslim community — is replete. Politically correct Washington Post is happy to be his tool in this propaganda. I am generally not a Republican supporter, but I admire Rep. King for his courage to ditch political correctness. Truth needs to be spoken with full force. Nobody is interested in saying bad things about Islam – no fair person would that. But saying truthful things about bad Muslim parents is not being disrespectful to “a great religion.” They are the ones who are disrespectful to Islam, and society continues to suffer because of their dereliction in raising their children as good citizens. And yes, Mr. Patel, I am a proud Muslim, and a proud American. Go ahead, make my day: call me an apostate. Many of your fellow propagandists have beaten you to it.

  • SiddiqueMalik

    There we go, again. A Muslim is already scared of these hearings, and has started to plant ideas and stories in minds that might get involved with the hearings. Look at Mr. Patel’s suggestion to Rep. King that King should declare that “I will not stand for bigoted things to be said about a great religion and an American community.” Should everything that will be said be pre-cleared by Mr. Patel? That’s exactly what the problem is among Muslims. They just cannot tolerate free speech, hence their never-ending quandaries. Please stop making utterly inaccurate statements that none of the Muslim parents in America brainwash their children into adopting rigidity. Many do, and Mr. Patel knows that. Rigidity is the mother of all hate-related crimes, and terrorism is an advanced stage of hatred of diversity. Mr. Patel is a propagandist-apologist for rigid Muslim parents; with whom America’s Muslim community — especially immigrant Muslim community — is replete. Politically correct Washington Post is happy to be his tool in this propaganda. I am generally not a Republican supporter, but I admire Rep. King for his courage to ditch political correctness. Truth needs to be spoken with full force. Nobody is interested in saying bad things about Islam – no fair person would that. But saying truthful things about bad Muslim parents is not being disrespectful to “a great religion.” They are the ones who are disrespectful to Islam, and society continues to suffer because of their dereliction in raising their children as good citizens. And yes, Mr. Patel, I am a proud Muslim, and a proud American. Go ahead, make my day: call me an apostate. Many of your fellow propagandists have beaten you to it. Siddique Malik, Louisville, Kentucky. http://www.courier-journal.com/muslimblog

  • Kingofkings1

    When a group of Israeli settlers broke the windows of a mosque built without a license the whole pack of “senior clerics’ from across the world got roused up and have not settled down yetAbrahamAhab,

  • Kingofkings1

    And yes, Mr. Patel, I am a proud Muslim, and a proud American. Go ahead, make my day: call me an apostate. Many of your fellow propagandists have beaten you to it. —————————————Welcome to the Rushdie – Hirsi Ali – Manji club. It’s a lucrative market at present. You will enjoy the worldly perks.

  • alexkatt

    Mr. Patel,why don’t you write an article about how the christian communities of the middle east are being decimated ?At any rate the elephant in the romm is once again that there is no separation of mosque and state in Islam. There probably shouldn’t be given that Muhammed was a divinely sanctioned ruler of a polity with governmental responsibilities – raising taxes, army for defense and offense, etc.

  • Kingofkings1

    FarnazMansouri wrote:

  • areyousaying

    Will he?Will he denounce his “Holy” Church hiding pervert priests?Will the war mongering spawn of Abraham ever learn to play well together?

  • FarnazMansouri2

    Kingofkings1,Semi-literacy is a dangerous thing. Daniel Pipes and Peter King do not belong in the same sentence together.Unlike, eg., Hariri and Mubarak. Or Mubarak, Feisal, KOK, and KKK. You’ve got Peter King on you. You are his twin, but you’re on his territory now.Bye.

  • Kingofkings1

    A Kafir wrote:Stick to the topic Kafir. If you ask someone their opinion and then ridicule their opinion, isn’t that called entrapment, like what occured during the spanish inquisition, and more recently, Guantanamo?Suppose an individual has been given by the CO an assignment to complete a specific task. The individual does not carry out the task with which he has been assigned, but performs a thousand other smaller tasks for which he has obtained rewards such as personal gratification and being known for one’s kind acts (which is also a reward), is the CEO supposed to disregard the task with which the individual has been designated?You are created for a reason, it is not to eat and drink as much as possible like a cow does. Find out that reason before it’s too late

  • klausdmk

    Peter King’s Muslim hearings will help by providing public discussion for all Americans to better understand national security instead of Obama’s denying and “glossing over” ignoring the reality of terrorist threats and plots and attacks as 9/11, al-Qaeda, TalibanWho can justify terrorists’ activities as reported in Rome, Greece, Netherlands, Stockholm and UK Britain? Suicide, car and mail bombers attack and threaten to attack like snakes hidden then striking with sudden, indiscriminate death on helpless victims. Fewer disgruntled political or nationalistic hate groups claim religious reasons to intimidate with terror attacks and kill perceived enemies. The Christmas message is to love your enemies and pray for them. American Muslims of the Islam faith should denounce jihad terrorist attacks and explain that most Muslims of the Islam faith are against violence and practice tolerance of other religions. Christmas celebrates the holy night that Christ was born in Bethlehem. It is unfortunate that Islam is associated with radical Islamic terrorist who attacked the U.S. and proclaimed that their enemy infidels are Americans of the U.S. Western civilization. Religions are known by the people who profess them. It is unfortunate when terrorist political groups use the religion of Islam to unite ethnic groups and people of Muslim Arab origin in extreme prejudice against people of the Western civilizations to justify their terrorist plots and attacks.

  • saad_said_59

    What was Abraham a Jew nor a Christian, but he is a Muslim

  • eezmamata

    Doesn’t the word Jew refers to those of the tribe of Judah, one of the twelve tribes of ancient Israel?Well, the tribe of judah descended from the man named judah. He was one of Jacob’s twelve sons. Abraham was, therefore, Judah’s great-grandfather. He was not a Jew, but was rather one of their ancestors, and should appropriately be called a Hebrew.Since the jews were around a l-o-n-g time before anybody ever heard of christians or muslims, and Abraham wasn’t even a jew … well, what kind of stupid question was that?

  • FarnazMansouri2

    So how about that, Peter King, why not investigate how religion poisons the human mind, not just how the muslim religion poisons it. I mean, if you really want know how to stop it.Posted by: eezmamata

  • eezmamata

    That’s a good point Farnaz, and it was a tongue-in-cheek question anyway.My point basically is that the christians here in our country are not going to be able to understand how to deal with the religiosity of the murderous muslims until they understand the religiosity of the muslims who don’t want to murder .. and before that they’re going to have to understand how religion is propagated from one mind to the other, from without to within. They have to understand the basic nature of human religiosity, period. But that will cause major problems for many of them. It will draw the curtain on their own beliefs, and seeing the unclothed ugly little man pulling their own strings will likely destroy their own ability to believe it.They aren’t going to take that chance. Some part of these religiously infected people still knows how to think, the infection knows how to protect itself.This problem King wants to solve will never be solved, that’s my point.

  • FarnazMansouri2

    eezmamata:INteresting. However, there are many kinds of infection are there not: politics, “race,” ethnicity, social class, nation. And so forth.Tribalism and idols of the tribe(s)

  • eezmamata

    I think that’s more what people call enculturation. I suppose religions infection might ride along with enculturation in most cases, but how much plain delusion is involved with enculturation?That your nation, race, gender is better than all the others … you know, that American Exceptionalism that was making the rounds recently … how many countries and how many cultures don’t say the same thing for themselves?Religion involves a profound delusion, certainly the theistic religions do. Long training is involved. I like the christian trinity BS as a good example. It isn’t logically consistent with any wording that can be produced in any language. It is training for how to swallow crap. It is what Hitler called the Big Lie.It does other interesting things too, what Eric Hoffer describes as inflicting the malady then offering the only cure. We’re all guilty for what all of our ancestors back to Adam has done, we’re all guilty of not only our own sins but our ancestor’s sins as well. We don’t have a chance.This is the part I really don’t get. Why do the christians forgive their god for this nonsense? We’re guilty for what adam and others did, people we had no influence over, and yet their god who created us bears no responsibility whatsoever for these same sins.I just don’t get that. Marvelous training in Big Lie theology. If you can’t eat that sht without question, the rest of it is easy.

  • FarnazMansouri2

    It is what Hitler called the Big Lie.As for the “original sin” doctrine of the Christians, it is incomprehensible to me, best understood as inherent in Christian essentialism and a self-forgiving morality which I do not share.What makes religion so dangerous in the minds of many is, I suspect, is its ability, at least theoretically to cut across other identity borders. However, within Islam, racism exists just as surely as it does among Christians, Jews, Hindus, etc.Further, as we now know for certain from WikiLeaks (some guessed as much), Saudi Arabia and Egypt led a group of nations, among them Bahrain, UAE, Qatar, Syria, Lebanon, and Yemen, in petitioning the US either to bomb Iran itself, or, if that proved unviable, to manipulate Israel into doing it. Nations.And, of course, Christian nations have fought one another for centuries.I think you have something here, though, but it’s slippery.

  • eezmamata

    Hitler was able to take a civilized people and turn them into mass murdering monsters, with ideas, with beliefs, with delusions.I live in Europe now, I know a fairly large number of Germans, many friends. They don’t seem so much ashamed of their country’s past as shocked that it could happen to them. That’s my take on it anyway. They have a cultural shame they willingly take part in, but the utter shock of it seems to be of more concern to them.There must be something of the True Believer in almost everybody for that kind of thing to happen. Maybe it was a survival trait during our tribal past … I don’t know.Because theistic religions rely so much on the ridiculous being accepted as true, it resists with all its might knowledge which makes the swallowing of the Big Lie more difficult. Generally you never hear complaints about astrology or numerology, or bigfoot theology. Most people know it’s nonsense, but what the hell, it’s harmless.But astrology believers never gather together in large masses and vote against science, vote against knowledge, vote against research; vote *for* religious wars and religious oppression, make demands that their politicians pander to their delusions — thus creating an entire political class whose only real talent is lying.We’ll either free ourselves of religion, or we’ll be freed of it when it destroys us. It’s hard to see it any other way.

  • qqbDEyZW

    Rep. King is looking for money from Muslims as he knows how close the Muslims are to the Bush Family and Wealthy Americans. Bush gave an office to the Saudi King’s representative Bandar for 8 years. The Saudi King just has surgry in the same New York hospital that treated Osama Bin Laden yet King isn’t talking about that. Faith is again being used for personal gain and political reasons. It really sad that this conduct has become common with Republicans and Tea Party groups.

  • FarnazMansouri2

    Germany, today, is very interesting, yes. I do understand how it happened there, having studied it extensively. However, I agree that German Christians (cultural and observant) do not. The do understand nationalism, of course, but they ask, quite understandably, why it was them and not, say, the White Russians, who set in motion this barbarity.The answer, I think, rests in modernity, but of the German students I’ve taught, few seem to know just how much guilt, hands on murderous guilt the Rumanian C’s, Russians, Ukrainians, Poles, Croats, Latvians, Lithuanians bear in the atrocity.Knowing the facts does not relieve these Germans, I find. They are interesting people. Bemoan the racism that persists and grows within their nation. Just as many Americans do here.Theism, you say? Does not explain the horrors afoot in India.

  • FarnazMansouri2

    Theism–I’ll omit Stalin for obvious reasons.How about the religionists’ favorite whipping boy, the PRC?

  • AKafir

    KoK1 writes: “Stick to the topic Kafir. If you ask someone their opinion and then ridicule their opinion, isn’t that called entrapment, like what occured during the spanish inquisition, and more recently, Guantanamo?Suppose an individual has been given by the CO an assignment to complete a specific task. The individual does not carry out the task with which he has been assigned, but performs a thousand other smaller tasks for which he has obtained rewards such as personal gratification and being known for one’s kind acts (which is also a reward), is the CEO supposed to disregard the task with which the individual has been designated?You are created for a reason, it is not to eat and drink as much as possible like a cow does. Find out that reason before it’s too late”KoK1, Entrapment does not meant that, and I have not the slightest why you mention the inquisition or Gitmo other than an attempt to score another point for being a victim.I gave the link to Zakir Naik before I even asked you the question. Now read what you have written this time. Why cannot you say clearly that by your Islam Allah creates man to test whether he will worship Allah or not. That test is the purpose of man’s creation, and since Terrasa and Pfau flunk that by committing Shirk they will flunk that test and hence end up in hell. So you were being evasive. Your Allah is an ego maniac Bas***d. A creator who had created this infinite universe and perhaps infinite number of such infinite universes would likely not be so vengeful and petty that he dismisses the good just because someone worships him as a christian, or as a jew, or as a hindu, or as a sikh, or as an animist, or as a pagan, or a witch, or a wiccan, etc. All the good intentions and all the good best use of these good people’s brain leads them to worship what they possibly cannot know or comprehend in the best way they can, and for this your Allah will burn them in Hell for eternity? Abu Talib will burn in the lowest Hell where only his brain will boil? Do you understand how ignorant and evil that claim is knowing what man now knows about the brain and man’s limited ability to feel pain?

  • FarnazMansouri2

    I live in Bulgaria, I am getting to know these people fairly well now. It doesn’t seem to me that they felt any religious connection to the Jews, but they did feel these people were their countrymen, their fellows. (We talked about this before :).As you know, Bulgaria allied with Germany, fired up by the revanchist spirit of the times. It was Peshev, the Bulgarian Orthodox Church, and the king, who were the key players in refusing to cooperate in the Holocaust.As for the Danes, they are, after all, Danes, still a fiercely independent people. They had a history of welcoming and successfully assimilating immigrants. A the time the Final Solution was to be implemented there, unrest had spread throughout Denmark, marked by labor strikes, sabotage, etc. I suspect the rescue was undertaken in that spirit.I agree about the man who reported his son. It was the right thing to do all around. It saved many people, including that young man.

  • AKafir

    “Do we see this kind of thing in some of the American Muslims, that father who turned in his son … I don’t know.”There are many many examples of this in history across the world. In 1947 over ten million people were uprooted and migrated to either Muslim Pakistan or Hindu India and nearly a million were butchered. In this mass insanity there are documented cases of good Muslims, good Sikhs, and good Hindus who went out of their way to help those in need regardless of the victim’s professed religion. The people who chose to listen to their humanity and risked their own lives to save others was minuscule in both cases.

  • FarnazMansouri2

    Violence, like decency, filters down from the top. In Denmark and Bulgaria, the Christian citizens distinguished themselves not only in refraining from killing Jews with their bare hands, but in resisting the Nazi murderers. In these two cases, we see resistance at the national level, not the heroic act of a French Catholic or Dutch woman here and there.Partition. I have yet to meet a Pakistani or Bangladeshi who thinks it an event that should have happened. As for me, I do not know….I do know that many Bangladeshi people are literally starving to death, to death. And India and the railroad and the grain….Violence filters down from the top. Once it is entrenched there, decent men and women can make few inroads. The number of MLKs and Ghandis are few and far between.

  • FarnazMansouri2

    I would not discount the revanchist spirit of the times–Macedonia, etc.

  • Garak

    If any Catholic testifies, or is in the hearing room, will they remove the little boys?

  • drompraka

    Hey Eboo,

  • Kingofkings1

    Some haters are hopeless. I conclude by saying: grow by creating and helpinmg others to succeed, not by tearing others apart and denigrating them. There is a world of difference between the two.

  • AKafir

    KoK1 writes: “Some haters are hopeless. I conclude by saying: grow by creating and helpinmg others to succeed, not by tearing others apart and denigrating them. There is a world of difference between the two.”That is exactly what the pagans of Mecca were saying to your Muhammad. Instead he destroyed their way of life and subjugated them to gain power. He toppled their faith and their beliefs and substituted it with pure hate which to this day is getting people to kill each other. More muslims have killed other muslims than any non-muslims in Islam’s entire history. Look who is denigrating. According to you, the most righteous Kafirs will burn in hell because they have failed the central task of Allah. Abu Talib protected and supported Muhammad all his life, and for that Allah will ONLY boil his brains and not torture more like burning his skin repeatedly for infinity, or making him real thirsty and then only giving him molten metal to drink. Denigrating? Islam teaches nothing but pure and simple unadulterated hate for the non-Muslim.

  • FarnazMansouri2

    My god, this windbag secular follows me from thread to thread. It is obsessed. Ah, well, since it has nothing better to do, poor thing, we’ll just let it Carry On.Except for this–If you persist here, I will publish at length about the grain, the railroad, and Indian prisoners of conscience.Carry on, but not here. You are an ignorant bloviator, and this thread, therefore, is not for you.Carry on.

  • FarnazMansouri2

    Conflict resolution is best done among two parties who meet at the table knowing that they have differences but have mutual respect for each other and do not loathe the other or the other’s character or the other’s present or past (FarnazMansouri)The other, for him, cest moi. As is the case on this thread, he immediately assumes that those whose positions differ from his are “jews” (sic), and that they are, therefore, by definition, suspect, if not vile.When his errors are pointed out to him, when he learns that his correspondents are not “jews” (sic), he ignores the information, continuing on in his unfortunate ways.He would like peace to start with me, but it has. As I posted earlier, I teach in Pakistan at least once very two years and I raised an enormous amount in aid for that country following the horrific flood. I could go on.KOK believes it is all fine and good for him to say whatever he wishes about Islamic victimhood, but the victimization of others by Muslims cannot be addressed. To bring it up is to vilify the “other,” notwithstanding that the “other” in the ME is Jews, Christians, et al, and that those in power are Muslims.When I post on how sick I am of the violence, offer the brilliant quotation of Naim, he is silent.The Otherer of all Otherers, he puffs himself up with self-righteousness, refusing ever to engage in honest dialogue.Armstrong is a dilettante with zero credibility among scholars. That is a fact. However, KOK does not wish to deal in facts, either about lightweight best-selling “theologettes” or about anything else.Until this changes, there can be no discussion, only conflict.Let the peace begin with KOK.

  • FarnazMansouri2

    One of the more interesting questions concerning the relationship of the Bible to the Quran is precisely what in the Bible became “corrupt,” since there were always scribes up through and succeeding Muhammad.This is quite true, and they continue up to today. Every authentic Torah scroll is handwritten, written by hand, by people who have trained in this work for years. Generally, they come from generations of scribes, tracing their roots back to the Middle Ages. Every letter, every mark must be perfect, since each is deemed to have a metaphysical value. Every scroll is checked and rechecked by others before it leaves the scribe’s hands.Thus it is and thus it has always been. So what became “corrupt,” and when.

  • garrafa10

    “Mainstream American Muslims have been vigilant against extremists in their communities – confronting their views, flushing them out and if need be reporting them to law enforcement.”What a load of utter twaddle. There is a precious mosque in Falls Church, full of wonderful little Islamists, that does not follow these most laudable sentiments. All Muslims should be arrested.

  • Kingofkings1

    King’s actions are despicable and inconsistent with the founders’ vision, and for which the great majority of individuals have migrated to US over the past 2 centuries. This is my take on this article.I do not wish to engage in personal attacks. Asking for peace in the middle east is going to be an unrealistic goal if we cannot even achieve peace on this blog with a less than dozen regular participants.Additionally, I don’t appreciate Farnazmansouri’s projections of her thoughts onto myself. I have never assumed that the majority of denigrating responses are from jewish individuals, much less relayed that to the other participants.Finally, humiliating the symbols others hold as sacred or nonsacred symbols others hold in esteem, in my view, is the mark of an individual who has sunk to the lowest depths – and with whom I have no intention of associating in any manner or responding to thier provocations.

  • abrahamhab1

    Eboo says:Have you ever heard a cleric anywhere issue a fatwa (edict) to blaspheme a Jihadi terrorist? Or at least pay lip service condemning the atrocities carried against Christian worshippers in their churches? When a group of Israeli settlers broke the windows of a mosque built without a license the whole pack of “senior clerics’ from across the world got roused up and have not settled down yet. When the Copts of Egypt bought a ramshackle building in Shubra neighborhood of Cairo that was used for prostitution and drug sale and refurbished it and used it for a bible study house, the whole neighborhood got riled up and surrounded the place and tried to burn it down with all its occupants. The representative of that district in the Egyptian parliament who is also a member of the ruling party went on TV to justify the closing down of the house and arresting its occupants by charging that” the occupants were caught in the act praying”. As if this is a treacherous crime against the state.

  • AKafir

    KoK1 writes: “Where do you get your hate-filled information from, Kafir? “and then”According to my information, Abu Talib, who was the uncle of prophet Muhammad and his protector from oppression of the haters of islam, neither accepted islam nor fought to extinguish it. The traditions which authentically refer back to prophet Muhammad through reliable sources, report that Abu Talib will be in hell but furthest apart from its punishments, where only his heels would feel the discomfort of the hellfire. Hell, I have suffered much more discomfort in the summer all over my body, as well as the discomfort of other extreme in the winter.”According to your information? Do you provide any references to your reliable authentic sources? I gave the reader a link so they can see what the muslim sources say themselves. I give it again:And then there is the Sahih Bukhari ahadiath:Volume 5, Book 58, Number 224: Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: That he heard the Prophet when somebody mentioned his uncle (i.e. Abu Talib), saying, “Perhaps my intercession will be helpful to him on the Day of Resurrection so that he may be put in a shallow fire reaching only up to his ankles. His brain will boil from it.”It is not I who said that Abu Talib’s brain will boil, but it was your Muhammad.Now let us see your authentic references. KoK1, I do not need to invent any hate talking about Islam. All one has to do is show the words of the Koran and the hadeeth. Islam hates the non-Muslims with a passion.Think about an old man who protected your Muhammad all his life and supported him and provided for him. On his death bed he stuck to his ancestor’s religion.

  • AKafir

    Kok1: This Allah knew before Abu Talib was even created that the ‘soul’ he is about to create will choose the religion of Abu Muttalib on his deathbed after a life of “righteousness”, after taking care of an orphan, after supporting and providing for that orphan. And having done that, this Allah, then will boil his creations brains for eternity because Abu Talib chose his fathers faith on his deathbed when Allah had ordained that choice Himself before Abu Talib was even created.And you worship this monster?

  • MarkDavidovich

    American Islamic radicalization is a problem that is part of global Islamic radicalization, and that is a problem within, and peculiarto, Islam. Other religions currently avoid that problem. There is some problem within Islam causing that problem, and it needs to be fixed. It is nomore bigoted to say that this problem is within contemporary Islamthan tosay that the evil Inquisition grew out of a corruption of Latin Christianity during the late Middle Ages, or that the witch hunts of the 16th and 17th centuries grew out of Protestant corruption. That neither Catholicism nor Protestantism currently foster such evils on any substantial scale is reason for optimism: a religion can grow out of such things. But that didn’t happen within Christianity without the drastic religious, mental, social and political changes of the Enlightenment upon Christian societies. A similar soul searching may be required of Moslem societies to rid themselves and the rest of the Earth of the current plague of Islamic extremism. It won’t do to identify some incidental and quirky traits of the small American fragment of Islamic radicalism.

  • EddietheInfidel

    It’s really too bad that Representative King feels the need to hold these hearings about the radicalization of young muslims in first place.If purported “muslim community” groups like CAIR, MPAC and ISNA spent a little less time whining about the non-existent “wave of islamophobia sweeping the U.S.”, warning against the equally non-existant “violent backlash against muslims”, and a little more time instituting programs of their own in mosques and islamic centers to prevent young muslims from embracing jihadist ideology, Rep. King wouldn’t feel the need to do so.Faisal Shahzad declared his status as a “muslim soldier” in open court, Nidal Hasan had it printed on his personal card; it’s not us kafirs that are making the claim that their attacks where religiously motivated, rather it was the perpetrators themselves.Mr. Patel can try to insinuate that Rep. King’s call for hearings are based on bigotry all he wants too; the facts are that it is these “devout” muslims themselves claim religious justification for their actions.Unfortunately for us all, until groups like CAIR, MPAC and ISNA take substantive steps to clean their own house and institute high-profile programs to prevent jihadist indoctrination, it will be left to individuals like Peter King to lead the way.C’mon guys, take responsibility for your co-religionists, and end this.

  • AKafir

    BloggersvillePakistan writes:”Anyone who expects a Muslim who reads this – or actually ANY decent human being of any faith – to respond to this with anything other than well-deserved rage and contempt directed at the US is an idiot.”The pretend righteous anger is well past its due date. The double dealing, the lying, they cheating, and the feuadals ripping off pakistan is now well known. If you do not know then you are worse than the idiot you call others. Pakistan has been using terrorism for the last 50 years as official state policy. It has engineering more or less a complete expulsion of pandits from Kashmir. It has massacred its own people in Balochistan. It kept the civil war in Afghanistan hot for over 30 years in search of an Islamic empire. So go exhibit your moronic rage to those who do not know Pakistan. Pakistan is quite capable of taking out the terrorists on its territory. If it will not then others will. Pakistan has gotten the same message from China, India and Iran as well.

  • abrahamhab1

    Atta Abdul Aal, an Egyptian journalist, predicts on al Rahma TV that that the USA is fast moving toward being a Muslim state and “shall soon be only second in importance to Muslim world to Mecca and Medina.” The MEMRI video is posted on I do not what is it about the USA that make failed societies that could not manage their internal affairs and whose populations are risking their lives to escape it to have such fantastic goals, unless they mistake American simple heartetdness to simple mindedness and also live in a fantasy world.

  • Kingofkings1

    A Kafir wrote:Where do you get your hate-filled information from, Kafir? Certainly Pipes and Spencer are too left leaning and not a good source of objective information about islam for you. Do you enjoy the attention, shock factor, or attain material benefits by telling some people what they want to hear?I consider it an offense to response to your postings, but I will do so in this case to point out your credibility.According to my information, Abu Talib, who was the uncle of prophet Muhammad and his protector from oppression of the haters of islam, neither accepted islam nor fought to extinguish it. The traditions which authentically refer back to prophet Muhammad through reliable sources, report that Abu Talib will be in hell but furthest apart from its punishments, where only his heels would feel the discomfort of the hellfire. Hell, I have suffered much more discomfort in the summer all over my body, as well as the discomfort of other extreme in the winter.This is your characeristic Kafir: to make a mountain of a molehill, to please your benefactors and yourself. You sound very much like a local flasher in the ssupermarket who gets his thrills from shocking others.As a side note, do you know what Jimmy Swaggart says about the destination of non-christians, or what Avigdor Lieberman says about the destination of non-jews?

  • FarnazMansouri2

    One of the more interesting questions raised on this thread concerning the relationship of the Bible to the Quran is precisely what in the Bible became “corrupt,” since there were always scribes up through and succeeding Muhammad.This is quite true, and they continue up to today. Every authentic Torah scroll is handwritten, written by hand, by people who have trained in this work for years. Generally, they come from generations of scribes, tracing their roots back to the Middle Ages. Every letter, every mark must be perfect, since each is deemed to have a metaphysical value. Every scroll is checked and rechecked by others before it leaves the scribe’s hands.Thus it is and thus it has always been. So what became “corrupt,” and when.Still, no answer from those blogging here, I note….

  • AKafir

    KoK1:You had written: “Where do you get your hate-filled information from, Kafir?”I showed you that the hate-filled information came from your Sahih hadeeth. Instead of blaming my 3rd grade teacher and my high school, why don’t you tell me what is it that I have not understood? Do you think Abu Talib’s brain should be boiled for Eternity? The information you have demonstrated about Islam means that you likely do not know that according to the ahadeeth not only are Muhammad’s uncles in hell, but his mother Aminah bint Wahab and his father are in hell as well. Do you want me to dig those up for you as well?Seriously, what kind of Allah do you worship that sends people like Abu Talib, Mother Teressa, Sister Pfau to hell? Try answering that for yourself some time, or are you too terrified to even dare to think an independent thought when it comes to the nonsense of Islam? Muslim children are taught all kinds of lies about Muhammad and Islam. Start reading the canonical texts of Islam for yourself and see how barbaric and stupid they really are.

  • Kingofkings1

    Kafir wrote:—————————————–

  • Kingofkings1

    Kafir wrote:——————————————Only a barbarian or an imbecile would say something as noted to invite others to accept his view and expect to succeed. No further commentary is necessary

  • Kingofkings1

    FarnazMansouri wrote:——————————————Every 3rd grader knows that there was controversy and differing views on the early christian canon, until the residual form seen today was shoved down with severe brutality, up to around 400 AD.Regarding the torah, old testament and the talmud. I believe the fanatic FM is confusing the three whereas they should be viewed in combination.

  • abrahamhab1

    About the Muslims’ oft made claim that the Bible was corrupted, if true it must have happened before or after Mohammad. If before Mohammad, we have copies of the books that date from the time of Christ in the First Century that was found in the caves at Qumran in 1947. They are on display at the Rockefeller museum in Jerusalem and copies of them are around the world. Let those who throw accusations around show us where the corruptions are.

  • FarnazMansouri2

    The oldest Torah scroll currently in existence dates back to 700BCE and is identical to all extant scrolls and chumash (printed Torah). Then there are the Dead Sea Scrolls (2nd century BCE).The Torah, indeed, the Tanakh, has never been corrupted.

  • Kingofkings1

    RE Kafir:

  • abrahamhab1

    KOK SAYS:He is apparently referring to the Council of Nicaea in the 4th Century when the Christian Church

  • Kingofkings1

    The medieval ecclesiastics, either through ignorance or bigotry, painted Muhammadanism in the darkest colours. They were in fact trained both to hate the man Muhammad and his religion. To them Muhammad was Anti-Christ. I have studied him — the wonderful man, and in my opinion far from being an Anti-Christ he must be called the Saviour of Humanity. I believe that if a man like him were to assume the dictatorship of the modern world he would succeed in solving its problems in a way that would bring it the much-needed peace and happiness.

  • AKafir

    KoK1 writes: “Oh what fun Goebbels had twisting and truning words on their head to prove his point! And he was doing that only to improve the lot of the jews.”Why don’t you at least show where and how have I twisted and turned your words? I make no bones about the fact that I am A Kafir. I consider Islam to be evil, and I show the American Kafirs the evil of Islam and how Islam hates non-Muslims and teaches the Muslims to treat the non-Muslims as less than human. It teaches them to oppress and subjugate the non-Muslims. Muslims have done that in their history, and Muslims have implemented that hate in their laws in every Muslim country, and they are doing that to the non-Muslims who are unfortunate enough to live in Muslim countries at present. I ask the Kafirs and Muslims alike to read the Koran and the hadeeth and the life of Muhammad to see for themselves the hate that Islam teaches for the non-Muslims. It is important for the non-Muslims to know the canonical texts of Islam as they deal with Muslims and Islam around the world.

  • AKafir

    George Bernard Shaw praised Hitler as well. Why don’t you listen Shaw for yourself: Why would not a man like George Bernard Shaw not praise Muhammad?Why do you need to bring up the words of Kafirs praising Muhammad? These days the life of Muhammad, the words of Muhammad, the Koran of Muhammad, etc. are all easily available and all online. People can read them and see for themselves.

  • ThomasBaum

    Eboo PatelYou wrote, “Saying ugly, bigoted things about Islam is bad for the country (just like saying ugly, bigoted things about another religion or race or tradition is bad for the country).”When I have pointed out that the god of islam has said, according to those that know islam better than me, that Jesus was a liar in claiming to be the Son of God, would this be an “ugly and bigoted thing about islam?When the koran calls basically everything in the bible and Torah “corrupted” and someone points this out, is this “saying an ugly and bigoted thing about islam?When someone points out wrongs done in the name of Christianity or done in the name of the god of islam or in the name of any “religion” is this saying “an ugly and bigoted thing”?Should a “religion” be about what is “good or bad” for a country or about things concerning our relationship with God?Jesus said to “Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s and to God what is God” and “My Kingdom is not of this world”, God did not become One of us in the Person of Jesus for us to set up a theocracy on earth and besides the fact that the god of islam calls Christianity a bunch of lies by Jesus and yet claims Jesus as his prophet, isn’t the “goal” of islam world domination by the sword of man if need be?Jesus spoke of the “Sword of Truth” whereas Muhammed spoke of the “sword of man” absolutely no comparison between these swords, is there?You then wrote, “It gives the online radicals more stuff to put in their videos and write about in their magazines.”Are you saying that we should give up our “freedom of speech” to those that do not even believe in “freedom of speech”?”Freedom of speech” is not the freedom to say only what others want to hear!You then wrote, “Suggesting that mainstream American Muslims are part of the problem instead of part of the solution is both false and bad for the country.”There have been many stories around lately that may have been about “mainstream American Muslims”, your phrase, is the story about taking over the swimming pool at certain times “for Muslims only” about “mainstream American Muslims” or is this about so-called “radical Muslims”?Take care, be ready.Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

  • abrahamhab1

    Someone quoted Shaw as saying:How is Mohammad allowing his followers to marry four women and unlimited number of concubines and divorcing some or all for any reason or no reason by simply uttering short sentence would bring it the much-needed peace and happiness?

  • FarnazMansouri2

    KOK wrote:Every 3rd grader knows that there was controversy and differing views on the early christian canon, until the residual form seen today was shoved down with severe brutality, up to around 400 AD.Regarding the torah, old testament and the talmud. I believe the fanatic FM is confusing the three whereas they should be viewed in combination.Posted by: Kingofkings1 |The “OT” (sic) is a somewhat mistranslated version of the Tanakh, more-so among the Catholics and Orthodox, who unlike the Protestants, still translate from the Septuagint, plus a couple of additional books which Jews consider Apocryphal (so do the Protestants, but they include them in their “OT”–Jews do not include them in Tanakh, and never have.)The Tanakh refers to the entire Hebrew Bible, dating back thousands of years, with extant scrolls going back to the second century BCE.The Torah is the first five books: the earliest Torah scroll dates back to 700BCE.There was no corruption; this is not ideology or even theology. It is fact. Today’s Torah scrolls (and chumash) look exactly like the ancient ones, still in existence throughout the millenia. The same is true for the Tanakh.Talmud is another matter entirely. It refers to the Mishnah (220CE) redacted by Judah HaNasi and the Gamarra (500CE) and then there are the subsequent commentaries.Would be delighted to discuss….

  • FarnazMansouri2

    Apparently Islam doesn’t have intolerance cornered.Survey: Protestant Pastors View Islam with SuspicionGraham, son of Billy Graham, stirred controversy in 2001 by saying Islam is an “evil” religion. Recently, Graham called Islam offensive and wants Muslims to know Jesus died for their sins. In response, the U.S. Army yesterday rescinded an invitation to Graham to speak at a May 6 prayer service at the Pentagon, calling his comments “not appropriate.”Most Protestant pastors, however, agree with Graham according to a telephone survey of 1,000 church leaders conducted March 1-9, 2010, before the current controversy.The survey included questions about the differences between the religions, giving the respondents the opportunity to choose between positive and negative descriptors.“When given the choice, they consistently chose the negative descriptions,” explained Ed Stetzer, president of LifeWay Research. “This should not surprise us – Protestant Christianity is, in a sense, a competing faith, and that comes through in the survey.”Protestant pastors were asked which is closer to their beliefs: Graham’s widely reported comment that Islam is “a very evil and a very wicked religion,” or former President George W. Bush’s remark that “the Muslim faith is based upon peace and love and compassion.”Forty-seven percent of the pastors surveyed believe Graham’s assessment of Islam is accurate, and an additional 12 percent agree with both Graham’s and Bush’s statements. Twenty-four percent agree with the former president’s statement only. The rest could not decide.“This means a majority of Protestant pastors chose statements that agree with Franklin Graham’s statement,” Stetzer said. “Of those who chose only one statement, respondents agree with Graham over Bush at a 2-to-1 rate.“Franklin Graham’s belief about Islam is a mainstream view among Protestant pastors.”Other findings:- Three out of 4 pastors disagree with the statement, “Christians and Muslims pray to the same God” – 69 percent disagree strongly.- Eighty-two percent say Islam is “fundamentally different from Christianity.”- Forty-two percent agree that Islam “promotes violence.”- Four in 10 say the religio

  • FarnazMansouri2

    Continued from below:Four in 10 say the religion is “spiritually evil.”- One in 3 says Islam “promotes charity.”- Twenty-eight percent consider the religion “relevant today.”

  • Kingofkings1

    AKafir wrote:Reading your postings boils my brain consistently, although I am not living in hell, despite you best atttempts, kafir. Your 3rd grade teacher did a bad job of helping you understand the concepts from written words. Whichever high school granted you a diploma should be boarded up.

  • FarnazMansouri2

    Radicalization doesn’t stem from this or that preacherPublic beheadings of gays, stoning of “adulterers,” bride-burning and the like–stems from?Too much oil?

  • AKafir

    Jihadist writes: “Ahhhh….we have gotten to the sex and women part here in posts.”Jihadist from Malaysia should know. Jihadist claims to be a Malaya. The deeply racist Malaya with their institutionalised hatred for the non-Muslims have by law reserved special privileges for the Malaya who again by Malaysian law have to be muslim.Of course the Malaysian Muslims can have four wives as Allah allowed and the second class humans, the Indian hindus and the chinese buddhists, of Malaysia have to support that and foot the bill to boot. The Muslim can marry any of the Kafir women who then must convert to Islam, but a Kafir man cannot marry a muslimah. If he does, he can forfeit his life, of course under the “civilized” Sharia. Polygamy Club to encourage multiple wives: The example of Muhammad with 11 wives and still sneaking off to see Maria the copt slave is too alluring and too religious to resist. Cover the women up in body bags to ensure there is nothing but sex on the brain of the faithful! Ah the virtues of Islam, Allahs final message to Mankind!

  • Jihadist

    The hate for the non-Muslim is what defines Islam. *******************************************Extraordinary how often those who consistently and persistently accused individuals and groups of hatred are themselves full of hatred and no see it.Perhaps rationalising and justifying their blind and blanketed hatred even when they contend they are people of sanity and reason?

  • Kingofkings1

    AKafir wrote:The quotes are from individuals who who have attained in their lifetime what a kooky schizoid may achieve in a million years. ———————————–“In a World where people are surrounded by darkness, ignorance and fear, it is a sign of hope to be celebrating Islam’s message of peace and light, and the last great Messenger, born and chosen to deliver them to all mankind.”

  • Kingofkings1

    Kooky kafir and Adolf AbrahamAhab, Thomas Carlyle had this message for you: (From ‘Heroes and Hero Worship and the Heroic in History,’)Except in your case, the zeal with which slander is delivered is a 1000 times greater than Goebbels in his prime

  • Kingofkings1

    “The closer we examine this development the more extraordinary does it appear. The other great religions won their way slowly, by painful struggle and finally triumphed with the aid of powerful monarchs converted to the new faith. Christianity had its Constantine, Buddhism its Asoka, and Zoroastrianism its Cyrus, each lending to his chosen cult the mighty force of secular authority. Not so Islam. Arising in a desert land sparsely inhabited by a nomad race previously undistinguished in human annals, Islam sallied forth o¬n its great adventure with the slenderest human backing and against the heaviest material odds. Yet Islam triumphed with seemingly miraculous ease, and a couple of generations saw the Fiery Crescent borne victorious from the Pyrenees to the Himalayas and from the desert of Central Asia to the deserts of Central Africa.” –A.M.L. Stoddard, quoted in ISLAM – THE RELIGION OF ALL PROPHETS, Begum Bawani Waqf, Karachi, Pakistan, p. 56.

  • AKafir

    About the sex crazed nature of Muhammad, the muslims cannot keep their story straight. Keep in Mind that Koran is the last message of the last prophet by the creator of the entire Universe and here we have four whole verses spent on a “mystery”. This is truly amusing so hold on.Now what is Allah talking about here. Note in 66:002 Allah allows Muslims to break their Oaths so a promise or an oath by a Muslim means absolutely diddly squat. Why is Allah upset at Muhammad: “Why holdest thou to be forbidden that which Allah has made lawful to thee?” What is Muhammad holding forbidden which Allah has made lawful for Muhammad just to please his consorts? Not only that but Allah himself is warning two of Muhammad’s consorts in 66:004 that if they support each other, the angels will back up the word of Muhammad. Digest that as part of the last message of the last prophet!!! Now what could possibly be upsetting the two consorts that Allah himself has to intervene?It turns out that Muslims cannot get their story straight on this because some feel awfully ashamed about the affair. One tale is given by Sahih Bukhari “The Prophet did not go to his wives because of the secret which Hafsa had disclosed to ‘Aisha, and he said that he would not go to his wives for one month as he was angry with them when Allah admonished him (for his oath that he would not approach Maria). When twenty-nine days had passed, the Prophet went to Aisha first of all.”The second story is believe it or not that the secret was that Muhammad drank some honey.

  • Kingofkings1

    Reverend Bosworth Smith in ‘Muhammad and Muhammadanism,’ London, 1874. ————————————–

  • Kingofkings1

    The personality of Muhammad, it is most difficult to get into the whole truth of it. Only a glimpse of it I can catch. What a dramatic succession of picturesque scenes. There is Muhammad the Prophet. There is Muhammad the Warrior; Muhammad the Businessman; Muhammad the Statesman; Muhammad the Orator; Muhammad the Reformer; Muhammad the Refuge of Orphans; Muhammad the Protector of Slaves; Muhammad the Emancipator of Women; Muhammad the Judge; Muhammad the Saint. All in all these magnificent roles, in all these departments of human activities, he is alike a hero.

  • AKafir

    Jihadist writes: “Extraordinary how often those who consistently and persistently accused individuals and groups of hatred are themselves full of hatred and no see it.”I ask you again, please tell us how many Muslims have been beheaded by ex-Muslims? Do you care to tell the good Kafirs here why is it Islamic law that Muslims are to kill ex-Muslims? Is there any ex-Muslim organisation that has called for the death of Muslims just because they are Muslims? You consider the mere pointing out of the hate for non-Muslims in Islam as hatred for the Muslims? Islam’s Sharia kills the apostates and you say that the mere fact that they say that Islam kills because it hates the Kafirs is hate for the Muslims. Ahhhh the magic of Islam on the human brain.

  • abrahamhab1

    KOK pontificates thus:What from the above excuses justify the man to marry, for example, his daughter in law, Zainab, or Saffiyah and Juwairiah, the Jewish captives or Maria the concubine etc,etc.As to Mohammad being faithful to his older first wife Khadija for 26 tears, well she was a very wealthy woman who hired him to work for her enterprise, and she no doubt controlled the purse strings. Nowadays we have a name for such characters. The minute she died he jumped into the marriage fray with the gusto of a hungry soul at a royal banquet.

  • FarnazMansouri2

    FarnazMansouri,On Tanakh, the oldest extent version dates back to 200 BCE. It is identical to all extant Tanakh transcribed and printed since then.Torah (the Five Books of Moses) are identical to the oldest Torah scrolls. These date back to 700BCE. Torah scrolls are copied by scribes. It is an art form, a skill, often past down from one generation to the next. Errors can sometimes be corrected. If not, the scroll is tossed. If the name of God is involved, it MUST be tossed, regardless of the circumstances.EVERy scroll is inspected by experts several times before it leaves the hands of the scribe. It has been this way for two thousand years, as far as we know. They are very expensive, costing thousands of dollars. Sometimes, wealthy donors will contribute them to synagogues where money is short. They are always contributed to poor synagogues.The Chumash is a printed (book form) of the Torah. It is identical to the scrolls.The Talmud is a different matter altogether. It is very long, comprising the ORal Law, as redacted by Judah HaNasi, ca 200-220BCE, and the later Gamara. There was tremendous resistence to HaNasi’s project for multiple reasons. Prior to HaNasi the oral law was transmitted orally from generation to generation going as far back as Moses, it was believed. With the barbarians in Eretz Israel, it was difficult to know whether this could continue. Hence, Judah HaNasi, it was agreed, would redact the Oral Law.The Gemarra is commentary of various sorts, some of it legal, some of it in parables, some of it history, etc. It is a remarkable document, volumes long, even containing jokes. This is very cursory, as explanations go. The Talmud is written Aramaic. The Tanakh in Hebrew, although it does contain a few Aramaic words.I hope this clarifies a bit, at least. I will add this: Jews who move on to Talmud, especially, in the Aramaic, are not the majority. It is dense and very difficult. (I love it.)

  • Kingofkings1

    Adolf Abraham wrote:AA, you have a bone to pick with Annie Besant. That was a quote from her.

  • Kingofkings1

    Thomas Carlyle in ‘Heroes and Hero Worship and the Heroic in History,’

  • abrahamhab1

    Quran 66; 1, 2, 3, 4, that were earlier cited by AKafir tells a story that is beneath the scruples of a common man, let alone a so-called prophet.

  • Jihadist

    Ahhhh….we have gotten to the sex and women part here in posts. I don’t suppose during Rep. King’s hearings, he will be asking on the sex lives of Muslims to find the root cause of terrorism.

  • Kingofkings1

    Kafir wrote:By the most recent counts, 1.5 million Iraqi (mostly muslim, mostly women and children) have been murdered by the US over the past 10 years through sanctions and bombings (that’s right, bombing – the favorite tool of the terrorist). In Gaza and West bank, tens of thousands have been killed over the past 5 years, including bombings(the favorite tool of the terrorist) and blockade, leading to a situation worse than warsaw of the 2nd world war. Are you able to connect the dots answer your question by yourself now, in terms of which religions are responsible for the most violence and killings? I haven’t touched on the killings in Kashmir or Gaza. In your twisted view, praising of your enemy by a third party is means the person praising has an ulterior motive. The entire world is not composed of Adolf Hitler personalities. Some of them actually have morals.P.S. Kafir, must you satisfy your employer through the rubbish and lies to please him/her in order to survive? I know the economy is not good, but isn’t it better to actually earn your livelihood through productive work instead of satisfying your masters by lies and deceit? Or do you believe the master propagandist of the last century who said that if a lie is repeated enough times, it will taken as a fact?

  • Kingofkings1

    FarnazMansouri,As for the new testament, it is no secret that that the companions of Jesus are not unanimous in their description or understanding of the ministry of Jesus. The uniformity in christian thought came at a terrible cost to those who held alternate views of the understanding of Jesus’s message, to name hypatia and Arius as one of few to have suffered for the uniformity of thought in christian dogma, which in current form is a combination of ancient Egyptian, jewish, Greek and Roman mythologies

  • AKafir

    Instead of dealing with the barbaric life of Muhammad directly, KoK1 resorts to quoting the presumed praises of Muhammad. Do these people claim to know Islam? No, they are trying to play the same card that ignorant non-Muslims play: say nice things about Islam in the hope that the muslims with their “sacred rage” will calm down and stop the killings. It is equivalent to quoting the president of the US as saying “Islam is a religion of peace” while the “misguided and hijackers of Islam” keep trying their best to kill the Kafirs around the world. It has never worked and it won’t work. The hate for the non-Muslim is what defines Islam.

  • Kingofkings1

    Adolf Abraham wrote:—————————————-But do you mean to tell me that the man who in the full flush of youthful vigour, a young man of four and twenty [24], married a woman much his senior, and remained faithful to her for six and twenty years, at fifty years of age when the passions are dying married for lust and sexual passion? Not thus are men’s lives to be judged. And you look at the women whom he married, you will find that by every one of them an alliance was made for his people, or something was gained for his followers, or the woman was in sore need of protection.

  • Kingofkings1

    Farnazmansouri,

  • FarnazMansouri2

    Farnazmansouri,Posted by: Kingofkings1

  • FarnazMansouri2

    EXILE, Currently estimated at a conservative three million, including children, who have NEVER SEEN THEIR HOMELANDSCountry or territory 1948 Jewish population Estimated Jewish population 2001 Estimated Jewishpopulation 2008Lebanon 5,000-20,000 < 150 20-40 exclusively in BeirutLibya 35,000-38,000 0 ~0Morocco 250,000-265,000 5,230 3,000 in 2006Sudan 350 ~0 ~0Syria 15,000-30,000 ~100 100 in 2006 Tunisia 50,000-105,000 ~1,000 in 2006 estimated 1,100 remain.Yemen 45,000-55,000 400-600 330-350.]Total 758,350 – 881,350 <7,300 <6,400

  • wiki-truth

    Eeeeha! Praise The HOLYi NO MON/WOM!Remember; PROCRASTiNATION iS THE THEiF OF Time. So keep busy if Ye can (Employed or Unemployed)!IMPORTANT: Rich, Middle-class or Poor, If YE hath All these “4-Tetra-Needs“ then Ye hath No Worry’s on this Blesseth Holy Cosmic Miraculous, & zero biblical Sin’th, S.pace-S.hip Planet EARTH, aka S.S. GAiA, S.S. GEOiD, S.S. TELLUSng something!BEHOLD: SEx is-not LOVE: LiFE iS! Nor is Man-Made Religion(s). LiFE iS LOVE! “HOPE” is our Religion and G-D, if Any, is an “IT” (never a HE/HiM/HiS nor HER/SHE incarnate)!

  • AKafir

    KoK1 writes: “In regards to my criticism of US policies while being an American: a citizen who fails to do so is akin to a parent who knows a murder has been committed in the home, but fails to notify the proper authorities, or continues to provide encouragement to the killer. The least he can do is acknowledge that a wrong has been done.”That is the freedom that the Kafir Society offers. Is that choice available under your Islam? Is that choice available to any non-muslim in ANY muslim country at present? It is under that choice that you find many Kafirs who had expressed their uncritical opinion of Islam, and you quote them. You cut and paste their quotes from some Islamic website without providing any link. Do these sites ever provide quotations of Kafir Scholars who were critical of Islam? No. Never. That freedom is never allowed under Islam. A minor criticism with cartoon and they are still trying to commit mass murder. What critical evaluation is possible, if opinions counter to your beliefs are never allowed or presented? I show you over quarter of a billion Kafirs killed in Islamic Jihad and all you can do is to whineDo you have anything to say about the intentional and systematic support of the terrorists by Pakistan in Kashmir for the last 40 or so years to ethnically cleanse Kashmir of hindus that I brought to your attention? Or is the blood and death of a Kafir totally meaningless for you because they are going to go to hell fire anyway?Your Allah tells you:So KoK1, the American, who do you consider “charged with authority over you” that you obey?

  • Jihadist

    (From Pamela Taylor’s previous blog)”The American Kafirs should read the post by the Malaysian Muslim Jihadist and the Pakistani Muslim YasserYousufi. They commiserate to justify the criticism being levelled against Islam. Their Justification is that Hirsi Ali is a liar because she had lied to stay in Denmark, not because she has said any lies about Islam. The Danes dealt with her and she still is a citizen of Denmark. Their justification is that the Christians are liars, the Missionaries are liars, the ex-Muslims are liars. -Akafir*******************************************Denmark? It was the Netherlands Ayaan Hirsi Ali was at. Some folks can’t tell the Dutch from the Danes? Or, they are all the same? You are mistaken.

  • Jihadist

    For the self-designated ex-Muslims, former Muslims who complained about non-American participation and “interference” in American blogs and American affairs, you are free to come into Malaysia-related blogs – in English or in Malay. Say, a juicy feisty one like Topix Malaysia (Forums and Polls) where there is everything discussed – from politics to religion to ethnicity to culture. But mostly in Bahasa Indonesia/Bahasa Malaysia languages with smatterings of posts in English. Come on in – the post entries on religion goes up to over 80,000 in some cases.

  • FarnazMansouri2

    Happy New Year Susan Jacoby, Willis Elliott, Schaum, Onofrio, DITLD, Persiflage, Collin Nicholas, JJOvez, Jihadist, eezimamata, KOK, yasseryousufi, Bios, Peter Huff, Walter in Falls Church, Secular, WMARKW, Akafir, Arif2, AbrahamHabibi, CounterWW, Roadrunn’, Gladerunner, and All!

  • FarnazMansouri2

    I believe you answered the question yourself, which is that in the interpretation of the Judaic scripture, some interpreters have the possibility of stretching the written word (perhaps enough to be unrecognizable from the original document). And that some followers of the jewish faith who rely on the talmud and are unable to read the ancient text, would have a different understanding of the original text thru the second parties.The Tanakh is written in Hebrew, with a few words in Aramaic.Observant Jews read it in Hebrew (This is not necessarily the case with the Quran and ARabic, which raises other issues–more, perhaps, later.)and Aramaic.The Hebrew, of course, is the ancient, not modern. We read it then, as our forebears did, thousands of years ago.It seems that something is unclear, perhaps, concerning Talmud. If so, let me know and I will try to explain.

  • Kingofkings1

    Farnaz mansouri wrote:————————————–I believe you answered the question yourself, which is that in the interpretation of the Judaic scripture, some interpreters have the possibility of stretching the written word (perhaps enough to be unrecognizable from the original document). And that some followers of the jewish faith who rely on the talmud and are unable to read the ancient text, would have a different understanding of the original text thru the second parties.The confusion regarding the primary sources sources of the new testament is not a controversial topic

  • Kingofkings1

    As quoted by Alphonse de LaMartaine in ‘Historie de la Turquie’:”If greatness of purpose, smallness of means, and astonishing results are the three criteria of a human genius, who could dare compare any great man in history with Muhammad? The most famous men created arms, laws, and empires only. They founded, if anything at all, no more than material powers which often crumbled away before their eyes. This man moved not only armies, legislations, empires, peoples, dynasties, but millions of men in one-third of the then inhabited world; and more than that, he moved the altars, the gods, the religions, the ideas, the beliefs and the souls. PS, for those whose closed mindedness does not allow for reception of any information to be processed except their hateful view, quotations from the past are provided so that repetition is unnecessary. No need to re-invent the wheel.

  • abrahamhab1

    KOK quotes another apologist saying:Some assume that every” scientific” matter mentioned in the Quran was unknown to the world in general. They may have been unknown to the people of Hijaz in Arabia but were certainly known to the much more civilized people in the neighboring lands. Let us for the sake of argument assume Mohammad was illiterate, knowledge in the ancient world even in the more civilized ones were conveyed by word of mouth and not through print. Mohammad was exposed to these cultures through his trips to Syria and Yemen on business as a camel caravan driver.

  • Kingofkings1

    Adolf Abraham wrote:

  • Kingofkings1

    Adolf Abraham, cont’d:

  • AKafir

    Truly an Islamic way of “arguing”!! I show facts, I ask a question. The latest one was how did KoK arrive at the outrageous number of 5000 Muslims killed yesterday. Is there even an attempt at an answer? Instead the cut and paste continues. And what is the cut and paste supposed to convince a person. It is “See all this very special Kafirs sing praises of Islam and thus Islam must be Divine, and everything AKafir is saying is wrong”. I used to be taken in by that line of argument in my life as a Muslim, till I wondered and wanted to know why was it that all these very special Kafirs had not converted to Islam themselves. It is very comforting for a Muslim to hear all these praises but why are they not enough for the praise singers to accept the Koran as final word itself? Really why not? Lo and Behold I was told by many and one can even look up on the web the claims that Dr. T.V.N. Persaud and a whole many other “christian scientists” had sung praises about the perfection of the Quran and converted to Islam. Wow!! Is that really true?Also, J. Needham, a well known authority on the history of embryology and a reference cited in Keith Moore’s books as well dismissed embryology in the holy Quran as merely “a seventh-century echo of Aristotle and the Ayer-veda” (J. Needham, Cambridge, 2nd edition 1959, A History of Embryology, page 77). And Persaud never converted to Islam despite all the claims being pushed by the many Islamist sites. It is in the same category as the claims of Neil Armstrong converting to Islam as soon as he landed on the moon. Believe it or not there are Muslims who still tell you that. KoK1, why not quote the first author Keith L. Moore and only the second author T.V.N. Persaud?

  • delusional1

    Typical liberal mindset – “I know the answer so there is no need for anyone to find out the facts.”

  • AKafir

    KoK1 writes: “Professor Armstrong, Scientist works at NASA, I am impressed that how remarkably some of the ancient writings seem to correspond to modern and recent Astronomy. There may well have to be something beyond what we understand as ordinary human experience to account for the writings that we have seen.”LOL!!! ROFLOL!!!See what I said. The morons are still claiming that Neil Armstrong converted to Islam.This made my New Year.Happy New Year KOK1, and Thank you, thank you for the best laugh I have had in years.

  • FarnazMansouri2

    Karen Armstrong, NASA (National Association of Simple-minded A-Historians)

  • Kingofkings1

    Guidance is a special gift from, only available to special individuals. For those who don’t deserve Guidance, God has locked up their faculties so they will never be able to taste its rewards. “Everything made so much sense. This is the beauty of the Qur’an; it asks you to reflect and reason….When I read the Qur’an further, it talked about prayer, kindness and charity. I was not a Muslim yet, but I felt the o¬nly answer for me was the Qur’an and God had sent it to me.” Cat Stevens (YusufIslam), former British pop star.ps, kafir, if you provide me with information about what positively motivates you in your current religion except the hatred of islam, I can attempt to address your questions. As a matter of fact, my brain boils when I read your diatribes of hatred and despite your best attempts to create the illusions of hell, I take pity in your desire for momentary pleasure. Perhaps this is what motivates you:”This woman said to me, ‘Give your

  • Kingofkings1

    Dr. T.V.N. Persaud is a Professor of Anatomy and Head of the Department of Anatomy, and a professor of Pediatrics and Child Health, University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada. He is the author or editor of 25 books, and has published over 181 scientific papers. In 1991, he received the most distinguished award presented in the field of anatomy in Canada. “It seems to me that Muhammad was a very ordinary man. He could not read or write. In fact, he was illiterate. We are talking about 1400 years ago. You have someone who was illiterate making profound pronouncement and statements and are amazingly accurate about scientific nature. I personally cannot see how this could be mere chance. There are too many accuracies and, like Dr. Moore, I have no difficulty in my mind in concerning that this is a divine inspiration or revelation which led him to these statements.”

  • Kingofkings1

    “I have read the Sacred Scriptures of every religion; nowhere have I found what I encountered in Islam: perfection. The Holy Qur’an, compared to any other scripture I have read, is like the Sun compared to that of a match. I firmly believe that anybody who reads the Word of Allah with a mind that is not completely closed to Truth, will become a Muslim.” Saifuddin Dirk Walter Mosig, U. S.A.p.s. kafir, USA is not an islamically occupied country

  • AKafir

    KoK1:Your brain boils but you will not answer a single question asked of you. You hide behind cut and paste of silly islamic sites. You claimed 5000 Muslims killed by the enemies of Islam and you refuse to state where you come up with the number. I have shown you the obvious error of the Koran regarding the location and origin of the prostate fluids and the semen, and the idiotic explanation by the Moron in-chief Dr. Zakir Naik. I asked you to explain what fluid is your Allah talking about. Again you are silent. Do you think your silence makes these questions go away? Do you think I am the only one asking these questions? Do you understand that these questions will pervade the net and they have to a large extent, and young Muslims will be asked again and again to come up with the answers. Answers that make sense to them and to those around them. I have made no effort to hide my beliefs. I am a “secular humanist”. I regard all religions to be man made. I think religious beliefs are there because man’s biology and evolution has found them to be useful. I do not think any religion has all the answers to the needs of Man, and the change now is faster than ever and the religious thought is under great stress to accommodate that change. All religions are under stress from the accumulation of scientific knowledge. Man apparently needs religion and different people are at different levels of emotional and psychological “maturity”, and many obviously need the religious thought for a variety of reasons. I have no problems with it as long as they keep it as their private and personal affair. Islam rejects and refuses to be a personal religion. It rejects the separation between the state and the Mosque in the strongest terms. It hates the non-Muslims and it seeks to oppress the Kafirs every where and impose upon them the status of dhimmis. Kafirs every where should reject that and fight it at every level.

  • yasseryousufi

    Stop being lazy Eboo…………start a new thread!

  • abrahamhab1

    AKafir asks KOK thus:Off course he would refuse to answer because you assumed he is an American. He might be living in America, but never loyal to any nation but the Ummah: the virtual Nation of Islam. I know you had disagreed with me on this point before but all indications seem to favor my position.

  • abrahamhab1

    Kingkong quotes the following from the Old Testament:

  • Kingofkings1

    Adolf Abraham wrote:—————————————-I believe this question has been answered by Joseph Goebbels in the recent past. No response is necessary.ps I do not wish to satisfy the desire pyromaniacs

  • Kingofkings1

    Kafir wrote:—————————————-Kafir, you are still hiding behind semantics. I already said I will not satisfy your schizoid needs until you reveal to me your faith that inspires your hatred of islam. A “secular humanist” is a lame response, which can fit any faith system including islam – and there have been a number of such individuals in islamic history. If you are enthralled by christian beliefs, say so opensly. Same for jewish beliefs, hinduism, or atheism. A truly secular humanist would find all faith systems equally incompatible. Find some other term to describe yourself. You can choose from any of these: an opportunist, anarchist, rabble rouser, a self-hating former muslim, or a hopelessly confused schizoid

  • AKafir

    abrahamhab1 writes: “he would refuse to answer because you assumed he is an American. He might be living in America, but never loyal to any nation but the Ummah: the virtual Nation of Islam.”He claims to be an American, born in USA. Those who have immigrated to USA usually provide themselves the excuse that they have entered a contract by accepting the citizenship and therefore they are obliged to honor the contract and that is why they should be loyal citizen. That is in a way, an admission that they do not consider themselves really American but only contractual Americans. Remember the Oath does not mean much to a Muslim because their Allah allows them to break an Oath. However, for those born in USA, there is no contract excuse. The question I have asked KOK1 does not have a clear, unambiguous Islamic answer. The answer that the Muslims have given in India for example is that since they are allowed a separate legal system and because the Indian allow them to implement Sharia within Muslim communities they do not have to be at war with the Indians. Other Indian Muslims state that India is part of the Islamic lands and hence it is their job to bring India back to the house of Islam, and there is no conflict in being Indian because India really is part of the Islamic world. They view the secular government of India as occupiers. I know loyal Americans who are Muslims and I know the answer they give. I ask the question of KoK1, and others can ask of the Muslims you come across, and their answer or their avoiding the answer often lays bare the inherent contradiction of Islam in the modern world.

  • Mnnngj

    Scanning some posts reveal that there is little conversation about religious practice – the actual practice of self-transcendence or ego-trancendence that religions are all about.Instead its belief-religion, meaning believe my old book was written by The Supreme Being and yours was not thus written. Or its politics.All true religions have as their base a Realizer who gives the Teachings about the practices one does to go beyond the ordinary human condition of the body-mind complex.These transmitted truths become the Way. The books are pointers to the way but the actual application of practice is the actual way, not the books.

  • FarnazMansouri2

    Hosea verses are prophetic and must be read in context. The verses quoted here are graphic descriptions following more abstract ones–If you didn’t get it the first time, try this! This sort of rhetorical move is typical of the period. The text, of course, is meant to serve as warnings to the Samaritans. There is, of course, plenty of (secular) material available on the Northern Kingdom.There are about seven hundred Samaritans remaining on the planet. They are viewed as Bene Israel and view themselves that way.

  • AKafir

    KoK1 writes: “Has it ever occured to anyone that some reference to violence in quran was relevant only during the period when it was being attempted to be wiped off completely by its enemies?”Yes it has. And tens of thousands of Muslims have been killed in Islam’s history over trying to get others to believe what you claim as true so casually. That debate raged in Islam for a long time. Look up Ashari and how that is distinguished from Mutazili. The Ashari Aqeeda states:The Qur’an is the speech of Allah, not something created which must therefore die out, nor the attribute of something created which must therefore come to an end.Whereas the Mutazili considered Quran to be Makhlooq and viewed that human rationality could be used to interpret the Quranic Verses and some of them were temporal in nature, that is what you are claiming. Asharis won and all Sunni schools at present all great Imams of the last 1000 years, and all the Sharia of all the various fiqhs are Ashari. However, you should know that the Mutazilis were hounded and killed a long time ago. You have just stated a heresy for orthodox Muslims. In many parts of Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc. if you stuck to what you are saying you are likely to be killed as a heretic. An example of a Mutazili recanting his views out of fear of being killed:However, that argument does not apply to any of the questions I have asked of you. Allah still does not forgive Shirk and all non-Muslims still commit shirk one way or another. The hate for the non-Muslim is not something that was limited to the time of Muhammad. That is still part of Islam. Are you claiming that 4.59 or 5.51 is no longer valid?I do not think you are trying to deceive the Kafirs because I suspect you do not know your Islam very well. You are saying what you think is true. Please try to answer the questions I have posed to you. They are not that difficult. Why do you keep avoiding giving simple straightforward answers to simple questions?

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