DADT: the churches ahead of the politicians

The Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. once famously wrote that American churches too often stood as society’s “tail light,” … Continued

The Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. once famously wrote that American churches too often stood as society’s “tail light,” while other social institutions moved toward the realization of justice. Who could blame him for so thinking–as he sat in a Birmingham, Ala., jail, recipient of a letter from eight prominent white clergy advising him to leave town and take his ideas of racial equality with him?

But yesterday’s vote in the Senate–a narrow loss of a measure that would begin repeal of the “don’t-ask-don’t-tell” provision that keeps openly gay men and women from serving in the military–strongly suggests that religious institutions (some major ones, at least) have gotten ahead of the country’s political leaders.

Take a look at the religious landscape: The Episcopal Church ordains not simply gay priests, but consecrates gay bishops; the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America began ordaining gay pastors this summer; the United Church of Christ has permitted its regional jurisdictions to do so for years. There are gay rabbis among Reform and Reconstructionist Jews. The Unitarian-Universalists have been staunch supporters of gay marriage almost before anyone else dared raise the issue. Do the math and you realize these organizations account for many millions of Americans; you can find their buildings standing prominently in city, suburb and rural areas alike.

Oh, yes, I’m fully aware it’s an uneven picture: the Roman Catholic Church stands firmly against gay relationships and gay marriage, as does the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Back in the ’90s, the Southern Baptist Convention adjusted its rules to allow its regional associations to remove individual congregations seen as not sufficiently opposed to gay ordination and marriage.

But religious institutions as a rule tend to be slow-moving, given to long deliberation. And that makes it significant that in some of the most high-profile organizations in the country, a willingness to embrace gay rights (and rites) has been gradually taking place. And this only 40 years after Stonewall. (If you want a comparison, it took women more than seven decades to gain the right to vote, after the first significant movement for female sufferage got going.)

To be sure, the denominations that welcome gays as clergy have reaped some painful results, as some of their congregations have broken away. But those numbers are fewer than they are often made out to be. Besides, who ever said change doesn’t come at a cost?

Just before the Senate vote, I heard on the radio a man who has long been involved in the Log Cabin Republicans–the gay organization that works within the GOP–state that the Senate challenge to DADT was welcome in and of itself. But he cautioned his interviewer not to expect immediate change. Politicians, he said, are followers, always waiting to see what the people at large will do.

Which seems to me to raise a question: Dear Readers, are our national politicians King’s new “tail light”?

Gustav Niebuhr
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  • joe_allen_doty

    Is spite of its name, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, is not a real Christian church denomination.The author of this blog is wrong about American Churches. The majority of denominational leaders don’t want equal rights for gays.

  • BootmanDC

    I’m not going to touch the first part of that post, butThat is true, but in almost every denomination there are gay groups, both in the laity and the official hierarchy, trying to change their denomination’s direction.The Episcopals, the Lutherans, the UCC, etc. didn’t get there overnight. It took lay leaders and courageous pastors to get those denominations to where they are at.

  • WmarkW

    Sticking a major social issue like DADT repeal into a must-pass bill, like next year’s Defense budget, is legislative game-playing at its worst.Debate DADT alone on its merits.

  • wjfreeman1

    @ TWMATTHEWS – The link is FABULOUS and I am pushing it out to a huge list. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I have always wondering how these religious tight-asses would respond to Jesus’ after-death question, “What was so difficult in understanding ‘love one another’?”

  • crrobin

    Religion aside:

  • pofinpa

    every religion is pursuing their own agenda on homos.thats is their choice.however,these self serving fools should not be interfering in our countries political decisionw.

  • lufrank1

    Posted by: VEOLALUZPORFA”If only the conservatives were as freaked out by war and poverty as they are by sex.”Ain’t it the Truth! My WASP high School pals and relatives down in Alabama are horrified by Clinton’s Oral Sex escapade . . BUT still believe that GW Bush is a man of Deep Faith. They have no whelm of conscience about the hundreds of thousands of deaths and injuries CAUSED by that born again Playboy’s personal glorification war! Why? because – like the Dark Ages Vatican, they actually believe that Jesus is going to come (again) to earth and that every man, woman and child who hasn’t accepted Him as their personal Savior is doomed to an eternity of fiery torture. Yes, that even includes Jews (Whom they currently support 100% in the Near East).I suspect that less than 1% of them know that if the burst of testerone at about the time of birth of human (and most other mammalian) males – – doesn’t occur – – -that male’s hypothalamus doesn’t become masculinized! AND that individual is PHYSIOLOGICALLY Gay, though genetically male.Yep – MOST fundamentalists WASP down in Alabam’ (and I dare say, Georgia, So. Carolina, Mississippi, Louisiana, TEXAS & OKLAHOMA fo’ sure) believe that being Gay is a Choice – (which can be cured, . . . BUT it CAN’T ). Bottom line:

  • shaiarra

    OR RE-START THE DRAFT AND BAR ANY AND ALL FAITH BASED RELIGIOUS EXCUSSES NOT TO FIGHT FOR THE US.CORPORATION, SOONER THAN LATER U.S.A. WILL NEED THEM, CATCH BACK IS A M$#$ F&%7(.) MALAKIA=COWARDSTHE US CONSTITUTION ART6SEC13″…..BUT NO RELIGIOUS TEST SHALL EVER BE REQUIRED AS A QUALIFICATION TO ANY OFFICE OR PUBLIC TRUST UNDER THE UNITED STATES” TO MAKE ANY TO PROFESS A FAITH AND OR FREEMASONIC AFFILIATION IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL

  • shaiarra

    ok, let’s think about this sensibly. We want to win in the middle east. Only one western army has ever done that before. It was not the straightr british, nor the straight russians, but rather, it was Alexander and his band of Macedonians well, known to be SAME SEX. So if we want to win, we need to get those non-same sex guys out of there and send in the real army… the same sexersYou know, the Roman Empire made Christianity its state religion? And that after that homosexuality became illegal? And that after that they fell? You know nothing of history or English grammar. Maybe you shouldn’t criticize others for their lack of English when you clearly haven’t mastered it yourselfYES BISEXUAL KING ALEXANDER THE GREAT AND THE POWERFUL BISEXUAL ROMEN ARMIES CONQUERED THE WHOLE KNOWN WORLD AND TIL THIS DAY WE THE USA AND WORLD BENEFIT FROM THEIR MILITARY AND LIBERAL ARTS & SCIENCES, THAT HAS GIVEN BIRTH TO TODAYS TECHNOLOGIES THAT SO MANY USE AND ENJOY, JUST LOOK AROUND

  • shaiarra

    Canada and Brits , ISRAEL , SWEDEN AND LATIN etc also have had Gays in the military for almost two decades and both of those countries have proven far more effective in Afghanistan than the US military (something about understanding other cultures)FYI MILITARY BARRINGS THE JOB COMES FIRST ABOVE ALL SELF DISCIPLINE, IN THE MILITARY THE SHOWERS ARE NOT OPEN IN THE DORMS, EACH HAVE A LOCKING BOOTHS, THE MILITARY IS NOT LIKE JAIL OK, IN BASIC TRAINING TO MANY POEPLE ARE AROUND , YOUR NOT ISOLATED, THE DORM GUARDS AND EVERYONE ELSE IS AROUND , AND THE CAMARAS ARE ALSO. THE OPEN SHOWER BAY? TO MANY GO IN AND OUT IN THE 2HR YOUR GIVEN TO GET ONE,AND FYI THE POLICE DOES NOT ARREST SOMEONE FOR STAIRING AT SAME SEXERS IN PUBLIC SO DONT TRY TO CHANGE IT UP WHEN ITS YOU, ie YOU HAVE TO GET THINGS READY FOR THE NEXT DAY 10PM LIGHTS GO OUT IN BASIC UP AT 5AM DRESS IN 15MIN, ALL OF THIS IS PART OF THE UNIT BONDING JUST LIKE UNIFORMS AND BALD HEADS AND ON OFF TIME TWO AT LEAST MARCH TOGETHER TOGO TO REC-CENTER AND OR BX, YOUR ORDERS FOR BOTH TECH SCHOOL AND YOU STATION HAS DORM ROOM WITH THE REST ROOM IN THE MIDDLE OF TWO DORM ROOMS, THE DOOR LOCK FROM THE INSIDE, THE DORM BLDG ARE CO-ED FLAMING IN CIVVIES ARE AGAINST THE REG ANYWAY, CONDUCT IS ALWAYS WATCHED , ie NO PDA (PUBLIC DISPLAY OF AFFECTION UCMJ) AND I AGREE WITH THE CONDUCT CODE, BUT NOT KICK OUTS PERIOD,

  • shaiarra

    THAT LADY15GAGA’sKBLH777 V-ILLUMINATI-NG EYE93OWL1$BGC GROVE’S POWERS72THAT BE3WILL FIND THEM OUT KNOW THAT SOON 28USC3001(15)(A/B/C) ,BLESSED888BE THE GREAT ANCIENT42EYE13 OF THE GOLDEN DAWN23,THE AGE OF LIGHT273 AMEN52, OGPOO33 THE TRANSYUGGOTHIAN77ANNUIT COEPTIS418NOVUS ORDO SECLORUM1776, E PLURIBUS UNUM1.618 ,MARK THEM1.414FROM THE PATH555AND MAY4THE STRESSES125OF THEIR HATE FIND ITS WAY TO THEIR HEART999SOON…NOW!!! BY THE POWER216OF THREE432WILL SET66US FREE333AMEN

  • shaiarra

    IT IS GENETICS BEING RE-ENFORCED BY NATURE ie ESTROGEN IN FOOD/ WATER/ AIR/PLASTICS etc.SIN INVOLVES A CHOICE, ESTROGEN IN THE FOOD -WATER-AIR SOURCES AND IN GENETICS IS NOT A CHOICE, ITS NOT A SIN OR “GOD” WOULD BE UNJUST IN THESE TWO MAIN AREAS ( FOOD/ GENES) :GOOGLE/ YOUTUBE /Wikipedia the terms: “INTERSEX” AND “XXY /XXXY MALES ” IT’S ALL SCIENTIFIC FACT, people ARE BORN with both fully, ENVIRONMENTAL ESTROGEN RE-ENFORCES ITSEEING THAT SCIENCE AGAIN HAS CLEARED THE WAY THEN, THEREFORE RELIGIOUS/ POLITICAL AND OTHERS etc MAY BE LIABLE FOR THIER INHUMANE HATE SPEECH THAT BOTH INSITE TERRORISTIC VIOLENCE & CIVIL RIGHTS VIOLATIONS , SEE THE (ADA) FED LAW & KKK CASE LAW PRECEDENCE, THE US PATRIOT ACT AND NATIONAL SECURITY ACT FOR TERRORISM AGAINST ANY US CITIZEN “ADAM” WAS CREATED AN HERMAPHRODITE AND MANKIND WILL BECOME THAT AGAIN, ie MARRIAGE IS THE CEREMONY FOR THE HERMAPHRODITE FUTURE OF MANKINDROSICRUSIAN DOCTRINE (THE 3 SEXES HEMAPHRODITE REBIS BEING THE FIRST SEX AND THE END DIVINE CHILD OF THE LIGHT)

  • garoth

    Here we go again – every time the subject comes up, more wackos. Sounds like “spidy” all over again! What has happened is simple – Americans, as a whole, have come tor ealize that gays do not have two heads, nor do their heads spin on their shoulders. Most families have a gay member, who, over the years, have come to be accepted and loved. Most changes in churchescome about because of the theology of people in the pews. As a Lutheran pastor, I remember how, as a youngster, we were taught that we could not commune with people of other denominations because of what Paul said in Corinthians about not taking communion “unwortily” – by which it meant (as explained to us) – not understanding the true meaning of communion, which, of course, was OUR understanding. Of course, a cursory reading of the 10-13 chapters of 1 Corinthians shows that not tob the sace, and, in fact, the opposite – Paul is talking about schism in the body – exactly what we were promoting.The fact is that no Christian group uses everything the Bible says. We pick and choose – all of us. The question we have to ask is: “What is the Gospel?” (the “good news”) Is it “good news” for everybody – or just for people who are “like us?” Jesus was always inclusive of “outsiders” in his proclamation, and critical of those who wanted to separate the sheep from the goats. Our church, along with some others, has re-thought the texts used as “proofs” supporting anti-gay discrimination, and found them wanting. And most of our people have concurred.

  • critter69

    spk202 ?You seem to know your bibble fairly well. You do a lot of quoting from it, so one must presume that you know it fairly well.You also claim to be a Christian, which is defined as a person who is ‘of, pertaining to, believing in, or belonging to the religion based on the teachings of Jesus Christ”.Since you are a Christian by the above definition, and since you apparently know your bibble fairly well, I have a question for you:Please provide us the exact words of Jesus (including book, chapter and verse) where he specifically damned anyone who is GLBT to hellfire. Or made any kind of specific and derogatory comment about the GLBT community, or any individual member of that society.I’m not asking what Paul stated. He never met Jesus in the flesh, according to the bibble.I’m not asking for you to repeat what was stated in Leviticus. That book was written several centuries prior to the birth of Jesus.I’m asking you to tell us what Jesus stated. And where, in the bibble, he is recorded as stating it.

  • Jerusalimight

    I don’t see anything difficult about keeping all the laws of Leviticus. As a faithful and practicing Orthodox Jew, I keep every one of those laws and more, quite easily, and I am very happy. I never eat shellfish, or pork, or meat and milk together. I never touch any woman except my own wife or daughters. I never turn on a light, or off, or do any ‘work’ like that on the Sabbath. And I think the best thing for all people would surely be for them to keep away from what God calls ‘an abomination.’ Why do I have to know why the Bible says no? The Bible says no!

  • onthejourney

    What does the repeal of DADT have to do with religion?DATD should be repealed based on equality and the constitution, period.

  • lambcannon

    Why would anybody in their right mind want to join the American “military” and have their faces and genitals blown off to preserve the khristian-kook tighty righty “freedoms” we supposedly have left in this country?Free healthcare ain’t worth it.

  • mikepost1

    God created gay and lesbian people.

  • spk202

    God created gay and lesbian people.This is nonsense. Fair Warning. Every word that you insist you know is true will cook with you in the hellfire. There was no new covenant. The Episcopals, the Lutherans, the UCC, etc. didn’t get there overnight. It took lay leaders and courageous pastors to get those denominations to where they are at…courageous? no hell damned. stop making up religion. It is not in a humans place, sure they can but they are damned. It shouldn’t be a surprise that Christians have problems with what has been defined since the beginning of Christianity as a gravely wrong practice….Potaboc, I agree, remember that it is specifically defined in Leviticus, and placed alongside sleeping with animals and worshipping familiar spirits. So much for homosexual rabbis thinking they have the law on their side. How about the ones that get caught on tv chasing kids. Or the ones that cant make peace in Israel. because they are homosexual. Gay used to be a good word. But it connotated only women. Specifically allowed to be together. Remember good men were allowed to have many wives as long as they were not wanton. It used to mean happy not deviant. When you talk of Creation the subject and its actors are more complicated and numerous then the stars in the sky, I would be cautious in attributing specific acts to anyone without knowing for sure. God created all souls as women. Sexuality has more to it then just male/female. The sexuality of a soul as a step in the truth is more along the lines of conceptually speaking :It is not just whether you have a male set of organs or not. It is possible for a pure lesbian to be soul stuck in a male body at birth. Chances are they just get all the girls. Figure it out for yourself. Just remember to keep the men who sex with men away from the women. The Creation makes women ugly over time who sleep with men who have sex with the exit pipe. Youve been warned. SK

  • tomhenning

    You proclaim all the progress that has occurred “only 40 years after Stonewall” as if was so speedy. It’s also sixty years after the Kinsey Reports, when America learned of its significant homosexual minority.

  • veolaluzporfa

    If only the conservatives were as freaked out by war and poverty as they are by sex.

  • bruce18

    God created gays. Its the behavior that the religions abhor, not the individuals. That is the important distinction.

  • areyousaying

    oooogggaaaaaa boooooogaaah!SK warns: “Every word that you insist you know is true will cook with you in the hellfire.”Let’s see. It’s either that or spending eternity with this Glenn Beck Christian moron whose small and shallow god fries his babies in hell, or God’s appointed deputy to look into people’s hearts to determine if they are “Christian” or not, joe_allen_doty Tough choice.

  • RhymesWithRight

    Interestingly enough, each of the religious groups you cite has something in common with all the rest — they are all SHRINKING, due in large part to their liberalism and rejecting of the traditional moral tenets of their larger faith communities. So while you may want to paint them as “leaders” on the issue, is that really the case if no one is following them?

  • twmatthews

    SK,You’re quoting from Leviticus? Surely you can see it’s one of the most vile chapters of any book ever written. And as long as we are picking and choosing from homicidal books of the bible, shall I also burn in hell for all eternity for making and eating a little shrimp and garlic for my family?Or maybe I should sacrifice a small dove — my wife and I slept together within 1 day of her period. Really, don’t you think the bible would be significantly improved if we could just throw out all of Leviticus, most of Deuteronomy and a goodly portion of Exodus?

  • twmatthews

    Rhymeswithright said “Interestingly enough, each of the religious groups you cite has something in common with all the rest — they are all SHRINKING, due in large part to their liberalism and rejecting of the traditional moral tenets of their larger faith communities.”First, in the US almost all denominations are shrinking. The population of nonbelievers seems to be that segment that is growing the fastest. But aside from that, which religion-based morals do you follow?How about the one where if you find your new wife not to be a virgin that you drag her to her father’s doorstep and stone her to death.Or maybe it’s the one about killing your disobedient children. My three sons would have been executed a long time ago. But, come to think of it, my parents would have executed me even before I reached child bearing age.And then there are the pearls of morality derived from the “true believers” — don’t all you guys claim to know the truth — that when I die for my god, there will be 72 dark eyed virgins waiting for me. I always wondered about that. If I were a woman, would there be 72 dark-eyed males? And what about if I were gay. Suppose one of the 9/11 hijackers was gay. Would there be 72 dark-eyed male virgins awaiting him?Of course, when you talk of morals, you are probably referring to your moral values which are based on the real truth. You are probably a conservative Christian. And as a conservative Christian you probably believe it’s okay to hold slaves — as long as you offer them their freedom after 7 years (as described in the bible) and as long as after you beat them, they can get up and go back to work after a couple of days (also in the bible).Yup, without the good old bible to tell me what to do, I would be stealing, killing, enslaving — oh wait, even with the bible I can enslave. Hmmm, come to think of it, even with the bible I can kill too — not in self defense, but I should kill family members who try to convince me to worship another god.

  • wjfreeman1

    For all you bible-thumping moralists. Let’s go all of the way:1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can’t I own Canadians?2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her? 3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of Menstrual uncleanliness – Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense. 4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord – Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them? 5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it? 6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination, Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don’t agree. Can you settle this? Are there ‘degrees’ of abomination? 7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here? 8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die? 9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves? 10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16. Couldn’t we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)Since you know the bible so very well, as a sodomite, I eagerly and anxiously await your wisdom.

  • twmatthews

    To WJReeman1, Well said but I think you owe an attribute to Aaron Sorkin.

  • wjfreeman1

    @ TWMATTHEWS – I don’t know who wrote it but I give full attribution. It is fantastic and should cause the bible-thumpers to pause.

  • potaboc

    It shouldn’t be a surprise that Christians have problems with what has been defined since the beginning of Christianity as a gravely wrong practice.

  • amm72

    “If only the conservatives were as freaked out by war and poverty as they are by sex.”War is necessary. Loving, committed relationships that make flighty, adulterous straight people look bad are frippery at best and disgusting at worst. Get your priorities straight.

  • FarnazMansouri2

    “Vile” NT continuesMark# Jesus explains why he speaks in parables: to confuse people so they will go to hell. 4:11-12# Jesus sends devils into 2000 pigs, causing them to jump off a cliff and be drowned in the sea. When the people hear about it, they beg Jesus to leave. 5:12-13# Any city that doesn’t “receive” the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. 6:11# Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children as required by Old Testament law. (See Ex.21:15, Lev.20:9, Dt.21:18-21) 7:9-10# If you’re ashamed of Jesus, he’ll be ashamed of you. (And you’ll go straight to hell.) 8:38# Jesus tells us to cut off our hands and feet, and pluck out our eyes to avoid going to hell. 9:43-49# Jesus says that those that believe and are baptized will be saved, while those who don’t will be damned. 16:16

  • FarnazMansouri2

    Really, don’t you think the bible would be significantly improved if we could just throw out all of Leviticus, most of Deuteronomy and a goodly portion of Exodus?Posted by: twmatthews Can it be thrown out now? While there are still some Jews and other nonChristians alive in the world? Matthew# Those who bear bad fruit will be cut down and burned “with unquenchable fire.” 3:10, 12# Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn’t the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. 5:17# Jesus recommends that to avoid sin we cut off our hands and pluck out our eyes. This advice is given immediately after he says that anyone who looks with lust at any women commits adultery. 5:29-30# Jesus says that most people will go to hell. 7:13-14# Those who fail to bear “good fruit” will be “hewn down, and cast into the fire.” 7:19# “The children of the kingdom [the Jews] shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” 8:12# Jesus tells a man who had just lost his father: “Let the dead bury the dead.” 8:21# Jesus sends some devils into a herd of pigs, causing them to run off a cliff and drown in the waters below. 8:32# Cities that neither “receive” the disciples nor “hear” their words will be destroyed by God. It will be worse for them than for Sodom and Gomorrah. And you know what God supposedly did to those poor folks (see Gen.19:24). 10:14-15# Families will be torn apart because of Jesus (this is one of the few “prophecies” in the Bible that has actually come true). “Brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.” 10:21# Jesus says that we should fear God who is willing and “able to destroy both soul and body in hell.” 10:28# Jesus says that he has come to destroy families by making family members hate each other. He has “come not to send peace, but a sword.” 10:34-36# Jesus condemns entire cities to dreadful deaths and to the eternal torment of hell because they didn’t care for his preaching. 11:20-24# Jesus will send his angels to gather up “all that offend” and they “shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.” 13:41-42, 50# Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: “He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.” (See Ex.21:15, Lev.20:9, Dt.21:18-21) So, does Jesus think that children who curse their parents should be killed? It sure sounds like it. 15:4-7Continues

  • FarnazMansouri2

    Garoth:Jesus was always inclusive of “outsiders” in his proclamation….Hitler loved it, absolutely. Used quotes from it, some of which were highlighted in Dies Surmer. Charming book really, the “NT” (sic).

  • areyousaying

    Glenn Beck Christians believe their small and shallow god made gays – for their entertainment to ridicule, to exclude, to discriminate against, to bash and to use as another of their tired old Rovian political wedge issues of hatred and divisiveness.By the way, who is that gay couple to the right of Jesus in the picture of the Last Supper? Did your Jesus hate them?

  • Secular

    This problem should have been resolved at least in 1993 by Clinton. Although I ma a big fan of his, I truly believe he dropped the ball in this case. He should simply have invited Barry Goldwater to a white house ceremony, with out any fanfare, taken his pen and signed a presidential directive stating as of now All Americans may serve the armed forces freely without any restrictions whatsoever, just like Harry Truman did with respect to the integration of blacks in the armed forces. Goldwater’s endorsement would have shut off many a conservative foul mouths. Now Obama is again deferring to the military by taking a survey and all that kind of nonsense. Now coming to religious morons they are always going to come to deal with it last. Given their usual vile sacred scriptures full of horse manure for morals and ethics will mope around for a few years and will just accept it. However many times their moral exemplars are caught with their peckers in tushes they continue to wax eloquence about the abomination it is, yet the same time trying to cover up the criminal conduct needless to say RCC leads the way. If RCC really believes that homosexuality is such an abomination then why don’t they throw all those pedophile priests on their asses. Why does it hide them and move them around.

  • Secular

    And then hope springs eternal in the secular heart. Latest cause is court-directed reinstatement of Maj. Margaret Witt, who, unasked, did tell.Yes,, Yes, Yes. It always gladdens the secular heart, when another courageous person knocks another dumbs*&t theological wall down or even chips it away. That secularists feel with every such acts of courage our nth generation down the line will be able to completely get rid of the religion just like we did with Al Chemistry.