Muhammad’s promise to Christians

By Muqtedar KhanDirector of Islamic Studies at the University of Delaware Muslims and Christians together constitute over 50 percent of … Continued

By Muqtedar Khan
Director of Islamic Studies at the University of Delaware

Muslims and Christians together constitute over 50 percent of the world. If they lived in peace, we would be half way to world peace. One small step we can take towards fostering Muslim-Christian harmony is to tell and retell positive stories and abstain from mutual demonization.

In this article I propose to remind both Muslims and Christians about a promise that Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) made to Christians. The knowledge of this promise can have enormous impact on Muslim conduct towards Christians. Muslims generally respect the precedent of their Prophet and try to practice it in their lives.

In 628 AD, a delegation from St. Catherine’s Monastery came to Prophet Muhammed and requested his protection. He responded by granting them a charter of rights, which I reproduce below in its entirety. St. Catherine’s Monastery is located at the foot of Mt. Sinai and is the world’s oldest monastery. It possess a huge collection of Christian manuscripts, second only to the Vatican, and is a world heritage site. It also boasts the oldest collection of Christian icons. It is a treasure house of Christian history that has remained safe for 1,400 years under Muslim protection.

The Promise to St. Catherine:

“This is a message from Muhammad ibn Abdullah, as a covenant to those who adopt Christianity, near and far, we are with them.
Verily I, the servants, the helpers, and my followers defend them, because Christians are my citizens; and by Allah! I hold out against anything that displeases them.
No compulsion is to be on them. Neither are their judges to be removed from their jobs nor their monks from their monasteries. No one is to destroy a house of their religion, to damage it, or to carry anything from it to the Muslims’ houses.
Should anyone take any of these, he would spoil God’s covenant and disobey His Prophet. Verily, they are my allies and have my secure charter against all that they hate.
No one is to force them to travel or to oblige them to fight. The Muslims are to fight for them. If a female Christian is married to a Muslim, it is not to take place without her approval. She is not to be prevented from visiting her church to pray. Their churches are to be respected. They are neither to be prevented from repairing them nor the sacredness of their covenants.
No one of the nation (Muslims) is to disobey the covenant till the Last Day (end of the world).”

The first and the final sentence of the charter are critical. They make the promise eternal and universal. Muhammed asserts that Muslims are with Christians near and far, straight away rejecting any future attempts to limit the promise to St. Catherine alone. By ordering Muslims to obey it until the Day of Judgment the charter again undermines any future attempts to revoke the privileges. These rights are inalienable. Muhammed declared Christians, all of them, as his allies and he equated ill treatment of Christians with violating God’s covenant.

A remarkable aspect of the charter is that it imposes no conditions on Christians for enjoying its privileges. It is enough that they are Christians. They are not required to alter their beliefs, they do not have to make any payments and they do not have any obligations. This is a charter of rights without any duties!

The document is not a modern human rights treaty, but even though it was penned in 628 A.D. it clearly protects the right to property, freedom of religion, freedom of work, and security of the person.

I know most readers, must be thinking, So what? Well the answer is simple. Those who seek to foster discord among Muslims and Christians focus on issues that divide and emphasize areas of conflict. But when resources such as Muhammad’s promise to Christians is invoked and highlighted it builds bridges. It inspires Muslims to rise above communal intolerance and engenders good will in Christians who might be nursing fear of Islam or Muslims.

When I look at Islamic sources, I find in them unprecedented examples of religious tolerance and inclusiveness. They make me want to become a better person. I think the capacity to seek good and do good inheres in all of us. When we subdue this predisposition towards the good, we deny our fundamental humanity. In this holiday season, I hope all of us can find time to look for something positive and worthy of appreciation in the values, cultures and histories of other peoples.

Dr. Muqtedar Khan is Director of Islamic Studies at the University of Delaware and a fellow of the Institute for Social Policy and Understanding
.

Written by
  • halozcel1

    Dear Muqtedar Khan,Would you please show The Original Document.Lets suppose,it’s a Geniune and Original Document.What changes,what changes.We can not arrive at anywhere by Fake and Fabricated Documents.Happy New Year.

  • yasseryousufi

    Muqtedar Khan, thank you for this amazing piece of Information. I hope this article doesn’t stop at Washington Post and reaches the Arabic Press as well as Urdu Newspapers here in Pakistan. There are a lot of false notions spread about Jews and Christians by reactionary mullahs citing some verses from the Quran taken out of context. Sure there’s a conflict going on in some parts of the world where Christians, Muslims and Jews are standing face to face against each other but infact there are more things that bind us together than those that separate us. We are told to revere their Prophets just like we respect Prophet Muhammad. Issa, Moosa, Yahya, Yousuf, Younus, Ishaq all of them common names amongst muslims, are Jewish and Christian Prophets. Christians and Jews are infact our cousins. If they were our enemies why would Islam allow inter marriages with them. I remember a beautiful incident from the early days of Islam, when the muslims decided to flee from excesses of the Quraish of Mecca, the first country the fled to was the Christian Kingdom of Abbysinia (Ethiopia). The King declined to handover these Muslims to the Quraish of Mecca giving them State protection. The muslims sort of returned the favor in a sense as in no muslim general or king ever dared to give the order for invasion of Ehiopia inspite of the fact that all states around Ethiopia became part of the Islamic Empire. It to this day remains a Christian majority country surrounded by Islamic states all around it. The one verse every muslim is obligated to say five times a day in every prayer asks God to have mercy not just on the Ummah of Prophet Muhammad but infact on the Ummah of Prophet Abraham. We all know that the Ummah of Prophet Abaraham includes both Jews and Christians.

  • coloradodog

    Looks like Huckabees aren’t along among the children of Abraham who like to pick-and-choose, obey-or-ignore scriptures and holy documents as it suits them.

  • Farnaz1Mansouri1

    Muqtedar Khan:You left out some critical passages re the Christians, and I have read the Quoran in Arabic, more than once. Speaking of which, to what do you attribute the gross mistranslations, omissions, insertions in English by Muslim translators?Oh, and Muqtedar Khan, what does Quoran say about Jews and Hindus. A more accurate and balanced peace on Quoranic views of these three religions, along with comments on the Hadiths, would be more persuasive, if less encouraging.

  • abhab1

    If this pact is legitimate it would have been specific for St. Catherine monastery, and such alleged promise was not respected for any length of time because the place was looted many times during Mohammad’s life even with the presence of a large Roman garrison.Claim:It is true that these creative ways in demeaning humans was legislated by the (just)Caliph but the order to humiliate and impoverish was Mohammad’s as he penned it in Quran 9:29Claim:Moi:

  • AKafir

    The words of Allah in the Quran are clear. And then those who want to mislead have to deal with the Tafsirs (exegesis on the Quran) over the last 1400 years, and all the great Imams of the past agree that Muslims should not take christians and jews for “friends or protectors” and that they are destined for hell. Only Islam is the religion that is acceptable to Allah. Trying to lie and cover up simple facts that are redily available to any one with a simple search engine is mere stupdity. If we want to live together peacefully on this small planet then we need to be honest to ourselves and to the other. Muslims need to come to terms with the deep deep hatred for the non-muslims that is integral to the DNA of the Quran and the Hadeeth. Islam’s Allah vents anger at the jews and the christians repeatedly and distinguishes Quran from the other “revelations” that he claims have distorted. 003.028

  • mazharrishi

    Dr. Khan,Thank you for this wonderful article. In my presentations on interfaith dialogue in Philadelphia region, I aften refer to Prophet Muhammaed’s (peace be upon him) historic promise to St. Catherine’s Monastery.I agree with you that both Musims and Christians need to be reminded about the events during the life of the Prophet that foster the relationship between these two great Abrahamic faiths.Prophet Muhammaed,s (peace be upon him) message to the Christians is clearly in keeping with the 7th century Quranic teachings (when the concept of trinity was already established) about Abrahamic faiths. In second chapter verse 62 Quran says, “Be they Muslims, Jews, Christians or Sabians, those who believe in God and the last Day and those who do good have they reward with their Lord. They have nothing to fear and they will not sorrow”.

  • Arif2

    Khan Sahib,

  • EddietheInfidel

    Dr. Khan,Nice piece of apologetics.However, I think your’s would be more effective column if you submitted it to Jeddah’s Saudi Gazette (where it’s illegal to practice Christianity, possess a Bible or wear a Christian cross) or the Cairo Times (in Egypt, where Copts are persecuted, murdered, and daughters are kidnapped and forced to convert to Islam).We in the U.S., thanks to our Constitution, already accept the basic right of individuals to practice their religion without persecution. We don’t need to be convinced in the Washington Post; take your column where it may do some good.

  • daweeni

    False promises begin at the top.

  • timscanlon

    Both religions worship the same God. If he were really there, he would not be very happy with any of his followers. They kill each other with abandon over trivialities. It’s up for debate if this is just proof of the falsity of the religions of Abrahamic decent, or a pervasive influence of evil.My take is that it’s proof of the former. What I do know is that no deity will send a representative to the “Holy Land”, as there’s nothing holy about a place that’s been a blood soaked nightmare for most of it’s history.I wish all three major branches of this faith, and their subdivisions would learn peace and tolerance. I doubt it will happen because too much of this is about temporal power and money.I watch as over, and over people betray the teachings of their prophets, the laws and writings they’re founded on, and selectively use what they want to visit horrible violence on others.There is no war that is a holy war. All wars are a mark of unholy and evil actions on the part of the people who start them with a guise of religion.Christan hatred is possibly more widespread that Islamic hatred. It’s a toss up who betrays their God more. In any case, they’re sides of the same coin.This is possibly one of the most important edicts of Muhammad (pbuh), and possibly one of the most purposefully ignored as well.Christans are not without fault either, they call Christ the “Prince of Peace” yet their followers spew bile and hatred at any other religion, and at sects they don’t agree with.These hate based activities lay bare the falsity of their followers faith & commitment to following the laws common to Islam, Christianity, & Judaism. They call into question the core validity of all of these faiths.

  • Farnaz1Mansouri1

    December 30, 2009, 11:46 amChristian employees face police case and torture by TMA on Christmas Day in Pakistan.Pakpattan: December 29, 2009. (PCP) A Muslim Sanitary Inspector of Tehsil Municipal Administration TMA was beating and openly manhandling Christian Sanitary workers in broad daylight on streets of Pakpattan city of Punjab province who were insisting to go for prayers on 25th December, the Day of Christmas in Islamic Republic of Pakistan.When poor Christian employees of TMA reached to lodge complain on inhuman behavior and beating of Sanitary Inspector Mohammad Attique Butt, DCO Pakpattan ordered police to register case against Christians.The Punjab Government and Chief Minister Shahbaz Sharif had proudly announced holiday for Christian employees for December 25 and 26, a two day leave with pay for thousands of Christian employees to celebrate Christmas.The Tehsil Municipal Officer Pakpattan Mohammad Aslam Gujar and Sanitary Inspector Mohammad Attique Butt forced Christian employees to clean roads of Pakpattan city instead of going for prayers on Christmas Day defying orders of Christmas Holidays announced by Chief Minister of Punjab Government.When All Christian Communities Alliance ACCA President Javeed Sahotra, Secretary General Nadeem Hamid Gill along with other leaders Khalid Nazir and Sabar Masih intervened in matter to get relief for Christian employees, the TMO Mohammad Aslam Gujar refused to listen their plea and denied Christians to offer their Christmas prayers.The poor Christian Sanitary workers started cleaning streets and roads on Christmas Day and were crying with tears “ Listen to our Voice Masihia” “ Free us from slavery” “Why it is Black Christmas for us”The All Christian Community Alliance ACCA team started video recording of crying Christians who were cleaning streets and weeping but Sanitary Inspector Attique Butt called other Muslims and snatched camera and took out cassette and threatened ACCA team of dire consequences.The DCO instead of listening to Christian employees directed police to register case against Christian employees and 5 other Christians. In FIR number 908/2009, under section 186 and 427 Pakistan Penal Code registered in Pakpattan City Police Station have charged ACCA leaders Sarfraz Masih, Nadeem Hameed, Sunny Barkat, Rawal Barkat and Hamed Masih while Christian employees Daniel Masih, Saleem Masih, Sarfraz Masih and others have been charged.Mr. Javeed Sahotra Advocate, President of ACCA have strongly condemned torture of Christian employees and enforced working on official Christmas holidays.

  • jailkkhosla

    Muhammad did not attack the Christians because they were a minority. It is true there were instances when Muhammad di not force Muhammadanism on non-Muslims. For example his uncle was Abu Lahab, a Christian. Becuse Lahab had exposed Muhammad as a fraud Muhammad invoked the Arabic idol allah to send fortha revelation condemning Lahab and his wife. Muhammad made the idol say that Lahab’s wife would have a rope burning around her neck. This is from the Koran. Muhammad’s greatest crime was associating the idol Allah with God.He also did not force two of his concubines, Maria and Rayhan, to become Muslims. Both were teenagers when the nearly sixty year old Muhammad, added them to his harem. He impregnated the Christain Maria but the son out of wedlock, Ibrahim, died in infancy.Rayhan was also a 15 year old Jewish widow whose husband Muhammad had murdered. He added her to his harem the same night her husband was killed.Moe did no marry the two children because of their refusal to become Muslims. Maria was however elevated in status because she bore Muhammad a child. She became an UMM WALAAD. Srt of an honorary wife.

  • rbpjlh5

    It makes no difference what Muhammed is claimed to say or did not say. It makes no difference what the “interpretations” of the words in the Koran are supposed to mean. What matters is that Muslims as a group are by far the most brutal. murdering and hateful people in this world. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool.

  • SemperPax

    Dr. K,Thank you for posting this. I apologise on behalf of the commenters who would call themselves Christians.Muhammed’s protection of St. Catherine’s (and by extension all Christianity) with this charter is commendable and ought to be emulated by currently living Muslims and Christians. Those who are serious about biblical study know that without the manuscripts from St. C’s we would know less about the Bible and early Christianity than we do now. I am grateful they were protected.It’s apparent that your critics are not really Pro-Life or they would have at least been grateful for the protection of St. Catherines and the lives of its Christians. Jesus speaks quite a bit about forgiveness, turning the other cheek, and praying for one’s enemies. If any of the commenters consider themselves Christians, I hope they might realize they have promoted hate over love (and acc. to 1 John, God is Love).While there have been killers who hide behind Islam, more Amnerican lives have been saved by Muslims than killed by Muslims. And, sadly, in the USA, more Christians have been killed by other Christians than by anyone else. Similarly, in Pakistan more Muslims have been killed by Muslims than by Christians. Both groups need to emphasize their teachings on the sanctity of life, including that of their co-religionists.You must have known you would be villified by these commenters and I admire your courage. If the current cycle of violence is to be broken, then we must find common ground, like the Charter, where we can. Again, I apologise for the miserable remarks by people who are unwilling to risk forgiveness, repentance, or peace. May we actively seek peace.Semper Pax, Dr. Z

  • chehaitelli

    There is a major flaw here, in Islam the icon Allah simply means God; this is the translation of the word God. It does not indicate to a different God (simply translation) and it does not mean that Allah is only for Islam. You need to read the Quran for any references and not a hadeeth. Even in Islam there is no agreement between the sects on the hadeeths. When the Quran says to fight those who do not believe in Allah, this means those who do not believe in God, meaning any faith that believe in the ultimate God is acceptable to Islam. Also, we need to differentiate between religion and politics, no need to explain. Enough of this nonsense.

  • VirginiaConservative

    “because Christians are my citizens”This is the operative clause in this whole disingenuous diatribe.The temerity of muhammed in saying that the Christians belonged to him, speaks to the successful invasion and the chattel status of lesser beings.The following 1400 years of nonstop brutality and subjugation are the true narrative.This article represents the cunning and crafty way in which the apologists dupe the unwary – and the willing.

  • djmolter

    Religion isn’t the problem — it’s man’s interpretation of religion that causes trouble. Any time you have a group believing that theirs is the “one true religion,” heartbreak ensues.

  • aswnylaw

    IS this guy serious with this ridiculous article? And who is paying this guy, the taxpayers of Delaware? Oh yeah, I remember all the “moderate” muslim voices quoting this edict in the aftermath of 9/11.

  • Farnaz1Mansouri1

    CONTINUED:The list of abuse against poor Christian minority women and girls is long.“Law enforcement personnel abused religious minorities in custody,” said the 2008 International Religious Freedom Report by the US Department of State. “Security forces and other government agencies did not adequately prevent or address societal abuse against minorities,” continued the report. “Discriminatory legislation and the Government’s failure to take action against societal forces hostile to those who practice a different religious belief fostered religious intolerance, acts of violence, and intimidation against religious minorities.”Legislative tightening, Blasphemy Laws and Hadood OrdinancesIn a reversal of restrictions under laws covering accusations by a husband against his wife in adultery, the Protection of Women (Criminal Laws Amendment) Act, had the intention to free 2,500 women from Pakistan jails in 2006. Unfortunately, this was not completed. Following this improvement, a more conservative interpretation of the law, through Shar’ia based legislation, was given more emphasis, causing greater restrictions in the courts.As legal doors closed again more tightly, Christian women suffering from extreme poverty were left dangling in a forgotten field of legal ambiguity, no protection and “non-personhood.”Even with the measured 2006 attempt to ease the 1979 Hadood Ordinances, which now allow women to report domestic violence and rape with one instead of the previously required three male witnesses, women still do not feel safe stepping forward to press their case. Blasphemy laws, that sanction anyone criticizing Islam also inflicts intimidation under the sentence of death by stoning. Stoning as a sentence in Pakistan’s courts has been used as punitive measures in quarrels against neighbors and against religious minorities.For protection, minority women and their families, whether poor or middle class, often try to hide or mask their religious beliefs for safety at work and in public.“Pakistan’s blasphemy laws are so vaguely formulated that they encourage, and in fact invite, the persecution of religious minorities or non-conforming members of [the] Muslim majority,” said human rights advocates, Amnesty International.

  • Farnaz1Mansouri1

    Current dangers facing Christian and other minority women and girls in PakistanUnder-reported cases of rape against Christian women have occurred. In 2000, the rape of seven Christian women on a bus to Lahore was viewed by the larger Pakistani (Muslim) public as a “deplorable act.” In August 2007, Christian Bishop Arif Khan and his wife were murdered in Islamabad. That same month seven churches and five Christian settlements received threatening letters.The intimidation of abduction, rape or violence of women and girls from minority religious families adds greatly to their vulnerability. Any legal recourse with police or courts, in working Pakistani law in their favor, is often very limited.“In the weeks after the Islamabad (March 17, 2002) attack (on the Protestant International Church), I talked to many Pakistani Christians—Catholics, Protestants and Anglicans—in private homes and at dinners and church socials. Several discerned what they described as a larger pattern of violence directed not only at Christians, but at other religious minorities throughout the country,” said David Penault, associate professor at Santa Clara University, California, US.There have been a number of reported cases of forced marriages of girls from religious minority communities who are under the age of 15. After separation from their family, abductions are framed with the pretext that their conversion to Islam was the reason for their kidnapping. In some cases, there may be a possibility that these are unidentified sex-trafficking kidnappings, but no study to date has been done to confirm this belief yet.

  • ravitchn

    I am grateful to Muslims for saving the icons of St. Catherine’s from the crazy Byzantine iconoclasts. I am grateful to them for giving the Jews of Spain refuge. But as the French say, c’est tout! That’s it. Islam otherwise condemns infidels to humiliation, violence, and backwardness. If it continues to terrorize us we may have to devise a final solution.

  • acpress

    A timely, historic and brilliantly presented article. The current crisis of terrorism is actually the result of occupation of Muslim lands in collusion with the corrupt rulers and the resulting sufferings in the region. The people reacting to the neocolonialism are not educated, almost all cannot read and write and therefore are easily being misguided. Americans have not only refused to deal with the basic cause of terrorism they are making it worse.Basically there is no conflict between the ideologies of Islam and Christianity. Christians have extended their generosity to a large number of Muslims as well and millions of Muslims show their gratefulness to them. ( Prof. Yameen Zubairi, USA )

  • DwightCollins

    islam is a faith that cannot be trusted because islam says it’s ok to lie to infidels…

  • chehaitelli

    There is a major flaw here, in Islam the icon Allah simply means God; this is the translation of the word God. It does not indicate to a different God (simply translation) and it does not mean that Allah is only for Islam. You need to read the Quran for any references and not a hadeeth. Even in Islam there is no agreement between the sects on the hadeeths. When the Quran says to fight those who do not believe in Allah, this means those who do not believe in God, meaning any faith that believe in the ultimate God is acceptable to Islam. Also, we need to differentiate between religion and politics, no need to explain. Enough of this nonsense.

  • DebChatterjee

    Dr. Khan,What Prophet Muhammad did was 1400 years ago. Thank you for reproducing the Charter that prophet signed as a treaty.The problem with Islam should not be seen in an isolated manner between Muslims and Christians. The problem of Islam is that it has this divine mandate of converting the entire world of unbelief (religions/societal systems other than Islam) to Islam. Many verses in the Quran state this explicitly.We have come a long way. It’s been at least 1400 years after Islam was revealed to Prophet Muhammad in 610 A.D. Today the world knows of the Freedom of Speech and Expression (1st Amendment). Can you seriously say that Islam respects freedom of opinion ? This involves two scenarios: in one case a Muslim does things that are un-Islamic, and then repents; in another case a Muslim doesn’t do anything bad but publicly criticizes or challenges the foundations of Islam. To my knowledge in most cases a repentant Muslim will be forgiven for his/her un-Islamic acts; in the second case (freedom of opinion) the person will be declared as an apostate and tried per Shariah law. Am I wrong ?Happy New Year !

  • yasseryousufi

    Would someone please pay some attention to the zionist windbag, Farnaz Mansouri~! She’s literally begging for it :o)

  • Farnaz1Mansouri1

    A timely, historic and brilliantly presented article. The current crisis of terrorism is actually the result of occupation of Muslim lands in collusion with the corrupt rulers and the resulting sufferings in the region. The people reacting to the neocolonialism are not educated, almost all cannot read and write and therefore are easily being misguided. Americans have not only refused to deal with the basic cause of terrorism they are making it worse.Basically there is no conflict between the ideologies of Islam and Christianity. Christians have extended their generosity to a large number of Muslims as well and millions of Muslims show their gratefulness to them. ( Prof. Yameen Zubairi, USA )No, it does not. Educated Pakistanis, some of whom post on this blog deny the persecution, indeed the caste of the Christians and Hindus, the rapes, murder, systemic poverty to which they are subjected.I could go on, but this will suffice for now.

  • hohandy1

    so next year when I visit Riyadh and go to the local Christian church to pray I’ll remember this. What? they don’t allow Christians to have churches in Saudi Arabia? But I thought you said….

  • zebra4

    The Colonial Holocaust and its Legacy (by Nafeez Mosaddeq Ahmed) – Media Monitors Network*

  • californicationdude

    Muslims worship a false idol called allah. And Muslims attack anyone that does not worship this false idol allah.These attacks will backfire when we finish them off!The world will be a better place when there are no more Muslims and their false idol allah.

  • Callie1

    The key to the contract is that Christians be “citizens” of Muhammad ibn Abdulla. In order for the contract to be enforceable, the Christian must submit to political control. Americans will not submit and will not abandon our principles of democracy.

  • douglaslbarber

    I’ll be sure to clip this and carry it with me at all times so I can persuasively whip it out the next time I’m flying and some Mohammed Atta character sashays down the aisle with a box cutter.

  • CharlesGriffith1

    This very nice article seems only to emphasize the massive hypocrisy and willfully unanswered contradictions we Westerners see in Islam. There remains a remarkable passivity among “moderate” Muslims/Islamists to avtively and visibly counter the violent hatred addressed to us Christians and Westerners.

  • CharlesGriffith1

    This very nice article seems only to emphasize the massive hypocrisy and willfully unanswered contradictions we Westerners see in Islam. There remains a remarkable passivity among “moderate” Muslims/Islamists to actively and visibly counter the violent hatred addressed to us Christians and Westerners.

  • fare777

    Religion will never produce peace. Peace will come when rational people finally turn away from First Century nonsense. Religion is a pox on the world.

  • ThomasBaum

    acpressYou wrote, “Basically there is no conflict between the ideologies of Islam and Christianity.”This is simply not true.The god of islam, to put it mildly, kind of loses it when ANYONE speaks of God as a Trinity and speaks of Jesus as God-Incarnate.Christianity speaks of God as One and yet a Trinity and that Jesus Is God-Incarnate. Not only are the “ideologies” of Christianity and Islam basically in conflict, the very basic “core” of each are diametrically opposed.If Jesus Is God-Incarnate then the god of islam is a liar.If Jesus is not God-Incarnate then the god of islam pick a liar to be his prophet.The “most basic” tenet of Christianity, God being a Trinity and Jesus being God-Incarnate, is not only denied by the ‘god of islam’ but it makes the ‘god of islam’, shall we say, upset.As I have said, the True, Living, Triune, Triumphant God is a searcher of hearts and minds, not of religious affiliations or lack thereof and It is important what one does and why one does it and what one knows.Take care, be ready.Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

  • hyjanks

    “If they lived in peace, we would be half way to world peace.”

  • Farnaz1Mansouri1

    hyjanks wrote:The Koran just fumes with gory details of what awaits the infidel if he or she doesn’t repent and become a true believer.Scroll down for highlights from Matthew (MLJ, etc., to follow).

  • zebra4

    Farnaz:I agree with you that The coptic Christians should be protected in Egypt, and the Moroccan Jews should be protected in Morocco. But at the same time the Palestinian Muslims and Christians should also be protected in Palestine or Israel. Killing innocent people of any faith or usurping their land, property or institutions can NEVER be a noble act.The basic principle is: DON’T KILL IF YOU DON”T WANT TO BE KILLED.

  • captn_ahab

    Instead of idealizing those things from Islam’s past that spawned some quasi-tolerance of other religions of the Book, it would be more valuable to see an article by an Islamic leader or cleric examining what is it in modern Islam that leads Moslems to fill their underpants with explosives and undertake suicide bombings, or deny that Israel has any place in the Middle East. There is certainly something there that needs to be examined, and that something is not outside of Islam but inside.

  • zebra4

    “I’ll be sure to clip this and carry it with me at all times so I can persuasively whip it out the next time I’m flying and some Mohammed Atta character sashays down the aisle with a box cutter.”It was here before Sept 11 that American newspapers reported that Don’t forget Ted Kraczynski – The Unabomber and Clayton Waagner – Anti Abortion Terrorist. Eric Rudolph is another anti-abortion terrorist, who pleaded guilty for bombing the Atlanta Olympics in 1996.And William Krar who planned to use cyanide to poison thousands of people. He was dubbed The American Taliban after his arrest?The Army of God encourages killing doctors and nurses providing abortion, and burning their clinics. For example, check what Chuck Spingola, said on the Army of God web site.Keep all the clips with you, Doug.

  • zebra4

    CAPTN_AHAB:If you can answer the question; WHAT was it that led Timothy McVeigh, Ted Krazynski,Eric Rudolph, William Kraar, Dr. Robert Goldstein, the podiatrist, and Rev Jim Jones to violence, your question will become more relevant.In the United States, acts of domestic terrorism are generally considered to be uncommon. According to the FBI, however, between the years of 1980 and 2000, 250 of the 335 incidents confirmed as or suspected to be terrorist acts in the United States were carried out by American citizens.

  • qaz1231

    “Muslims and Christians together constitute over 50 percent of the world. If they lived in peace, we would be half way to world peace.”——————————————-If Muslims could live in peace with Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, animists, Confucians, secular humanists, or other Muslims we would be like 90% of the way to world peace.

  • abhab1

    Many critics of the Christian faith do so by either quoting phrases here and there to show that Jesus was an anti-peace rabbi: He incited children against their parents and worst he drowned a flock of pigs. If you believe this I have a bridge here in Chicago I would like to sell you. Other critics quote from the Old Testament, especially from Leviticus and assign it to Christianity. The Old Testament was written by Jews for Jews and the Christians’ interest in it does not go beyond the 300 or so prophecies about the coming of Jesus. Besides the war and violence in Leviticus and other chapters that some Muslims apologists love to quote and blame on Christians were descriptive and bound by time and place; the Jews fighting for a place to call their own. This is very different than the Quran violence which is prescriptive and not bound by time or place.

  • Farnaz1Mansouri1

    abhab1:Re: Your postI am sure that some of the more extreme passages in Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, etc., a sampling of which I have posted, may be given any number of explanations.I would suggest that the Christians stick to their own New Testament, and I shall stick to Tanakh.

  • svengerald

    Any person who has read the quran and its’ accompanying books understands that this article, as well intended as it may be, is rubbish. Shame on you sir for misleading people who may not be aware of what islam really is and how their prophet really treated Christians and Jews. If you or anyone need an example of how islam treats Christians look at Pakistan and Egypt and Iran and Iraq and Saudi Arabia……

  • levelheaded1

    I think the west has failed to recognize that the Muslim/Christian schism is not just a religious issue but also a “political one”

  • SiddiqueMalik

    Mr. Khan’s article reflects the same handicap that Muslims today consistently show and which is responsible for their inability to embrace modernity. This handicap comes in their way of establishing sound political systems based upon secularism and respect for diversity.

  • NaeraPuruks

    Too much religion is bad for you. Ask any shoe- or clinic bomber and they will tell you. Or better not.

  • JohnDebba

    Frankly the promise of Mohammed is meaningless, for the promise of Lord Jesus is true and all I need. If we all lived and loved like Christ Jesus, peace would be as natural as breathing.Islamic propagation produced for western consumption may influence people ignorant of Islam, but those of that left Islam know better.

  • JohnDebba

    Frankly the promise of Mohammed is meaningless, for the promise of Lord Jesus is true and all I need. If we all lived and loved like Christ Jesus, peace would be as natural as breathing.Islamic propagation produced for western consumption may influence people ignorant of Islam, but those of us that left Islam know better.

  • captn_ahab

    Zebra4 wrote:”CAPTN_AHAB:If you can tell me the international religious phlosophy that inspired and trained all these guys to become suicide bombers, then your statement will have some meaning. As it stands now, it is a meaningless comparison.Apparently, your objective is to continue to rationalize Islamist suicide bombing, rather than address the major reiligious aberration perpetuating violence in our time.Come on, you can do better than enabling Islamist terrorism.

  • dlkimura

    Just think if there wasn’t any of this garbage called religion to begin with: then according to your logic, the world would be 100% at peace.All you believers are a bunch of superstitious idiots.

  • leone2

    Looking at all the comments posted…it is sorrowful to see so much hate, rejection and anger. What I think is the problem, is not in the religions. But us humans, irrespective of our religious affiliation. We use religion for our own personal gain, and manipulate and twist its preaching to suit our personal, political and economical agenda. Can’t we stop putting each other’s religion down, live peacefully, harmoniously and accept that we might have diffrences and let God be the Final Arbitrator, since we all say that He is the Judge?

  • ThomasBaum

    Farnaz1Mansouri1 You wrote, “I would suggest that the Christians stick to their own New Testament, and I shall stick to Tanakh.”Whether you like it or not the OT, which the Tanakh is part of, and the NT make up the bible.The NT flows from the OT and it is God’s Plan which is unfolding thru it and God’s Plan is still unfolding.In some of your postings from the NT, Jesus speaks of a “sword”, this is not a man-made “sword”.Since you do not believe what is written in the Tanakh, I was wondering why you are so against other people, that is non-Jews, using it as “part” of the bible?Here in America we are allowed, by law, to believe what we want and it is not open to other people’s “suggestions” as to what we can or cannot believe.And even if it were not allowed by law, it is a God given right bestowed on us by God.I believe that the “founding fathers” were divinely inspired when they wrote, to the effect, that no one can force another, one way or the other, in their beliefs.As I have said, God looks at the person, not the “label”, sometimes some of us can’t seem to get past the “label” of another.Take care, be ready.Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

  • shevalsheshe

    Farnaz1Mansouri1, I cannot sit here and let you distort the Word of God. Nonbelievers cannot just pick up the Bible and understand its words. You should contact a Christian minister and have them explain all of the Biblical quotes you just posted. You have to be saved to understand the Word of God. You have taken them out of context and used them for your own benefit – not God’s intent. This is a very serious offense against God. God and His Word are one.

  • JohnDebba

    Frankly the promise of Mohammed is meaningless, for the promise of Lord Jesus is true and all I need. If we all lived and loved like Christ Jesus, peace would be as natural as breathing.Islamic propagation produced for western consumption may influence people ignorant of Islam, but those of that left Islam know better.

  • shevalsheshe

    # Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. 5:17 MatthewJesus recommends that to avoid sin we cut off our hands and pluck out our eyes. This advice is given immediately after he says that anyone who looks with lust at any women commits adultery. 5:29-30 Matthew

  • shevalsheshe

    Farnaz1Mansouri1 wrote:

  • thetravelingmasseur

    Dr Kahn…me too .. thank you, thank you, thank you for being an almost lone voice for peace and sanity. I too apologize for those who live their religion as hatred and fear and try to foist it on others as following the “true” path. In the replies above, most of the haters are christians and i find it dismaying that the Prince of Peace is so often used as the justification for cruelty, torture, war, genocide, greed and all other versions of the 7 deadly sins… complete with voluminous quotes of other verses of the bible and/or secular histories and news.I am sorry that so many play the childish games of “it’s their fault” or “it’s not my fault”. Both of these lead only to escalation, hurt people and offended feelings.Thank you for being a voice for peace.. and thru peace: security and effectively building a future for all of humanity.Besides publishing views in an occasional newspaper, what can we do … in your view .. to further the cause of peace?

  • NaeraPuruks

    Congratulations to all of those who will die in suicide bombings next week. And, belatedly, congratulations to all those of you who died last week, yesterday and earlier today. Hope you all find this religion-thing very satisfying as always. Happy New Year! Let the madness continue.

  • SiddiqueMalik

    shevalsheshe, You sound like the Taliban. “Crime against God?” That’s exactly how the criminal Taliban refers to somethings. Apparently, I missed that email through which Allah or God or whatever declared certain things crime againt him?

  • Aquarius1

    Very interesting comments, however, it is evident that many Muslims, as are many Christians, are cafeteria style believers, picking and choosing only those portions from their Sacred Texts that agree with their beliefs. They tend to forget or ignore the ones about compassion, forgiveness, and loving your neighbor.

  • Farnaz1Mansouri1

    Farnaz1Mansouri1: Don’t gloat over Bible’s assertions that those who do not believe in it will go to hell. The Quran syas the same thing about non-Muslims. Every religion is bigotted in the sense that it claims to be the correct religion and considers all other religions as bad and their followers hell-bound. Neither Christianity nor Islam is an exception.Posted by: SiddiqueMalik I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN. I’m a Jew, and Judaism holds that Hashem (=name, i.e., God) has a covenant with ALL PEOPLES, including Muslims, Hindus, Christians, Pagans, et al, that Jews are not to judge.HOWEVER, I am NOT a VICTIM. And will not be victimized by cultural, psychological, or political imperialism.End, really, of discussion.

  • Farnaz1Mansouri1

    shevalsheshe:PS. SiddiqueMalik is correct. Your comments are the Christian equivalent of a Talib’s. I know. I’ve met a couple of Taliban. Your relatives, perhaps?

  • seasail

    Prior to the first Crusade, which by the way were not called “crusades” until the 19th century, Muslims allowed free access to all religious sites in the Levant by all religions. It was not until the Franks, to rid themselves of pestiferous, idle younger brothers, attacked in 1000 ACE did Islam restrict access to the Levant. This was a direct result of the christian habit of killing all muslims. Tit for tat so to speak. Muhammad (pbuh), as mentioned by most islamic scholars, would not condone the killing of thousands at a volley ball game or the destruction of christians or jews. Look at Cordoba. Principal advisers to the moors were both jews and christians.

  • NaeraPuruks

    Oh, I am so sorry for being “insensitive” and “offensive” in my postings. Apparently suicide bombers and chanting and rantind maniacs and endless bloodshed is more tolerable when disgusted intolerance toward all that madness.

  • abhab1

    You ask when will the Jihadists stop killing themselves and others? When they are mature enough to stop using the manual of a 7th Century desert warlord to tackle the problems of a complicated 21st Century world.

  • thomascanada

    Keep up the good works.Post your message world wide to bring Peace instead of ignorance across our world.

  • morryb

    Well I do not take stock in the utterings of people that said God talked to them and this includes Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Mohammed or even Billy Graham. Anyone who hears voices where no one else does is in serious need of psychiatric help. All religions are cults and they survive due to indoctrinating the minds of very young children from generation to generation. The children grow up to be believers and have “faith” and the BS is propagated again. Once brain-washed into a particular cult, which is the “true” one, there is little tolerance for members of the others since they must obviously be unbelievers. Scientific evidence exists that demonstrates that the universe is billions of years old, that the Earth circles the sun, and that the diversity of life is caused by natural selection. Yet those of faith will argue that the “good book” knows better and, therefore, the “divine” authority knows better. Hard to argue against that kind of logic.

  • massmedia77

    From the comments posted here, it is easy to see where the problem lies. It is not within religion, but within the people that practice religion.It’s sad to see that such a peaceful article is still met with ignorance and hatred. I don’t see how people say they want peace, tolerance and understanding when they refuse to offer it themselves.Humans are a strange lot and we will be our own doom, regardless if you believe in God or not.

  • Farnaz1Mansouri1

    “From the comments posted here, it is easy to see where the problem lies. It is not within religion, but within the people that practice religion.”I wonder how many “believers” have the wherewithal, the intellectual honesty to apprehend the foundational circularity of this reasoning.

  • SubbuIyer

    All the Bozos here given to Pavlovian defence of Islam and the Church’s version of “Christianity” should take a deep breath followed by an attempt to comprehend the approach taken by ANY one of the Eastern philosophies (Buddhism, Taoism, Jainism, Vedanta etc.) towards man’s Spiritual Journey.It will then be “revealed” to them what the fundamental issue is: Any “religion” that lays exclusive claim on “Truth” (unpardonably) imposes a dichotomy on humanity (“us” versus “them”) and is essentially rubbish! Indeed, the games of power, control and proselytization that follow such hallucinations of infallibility in matters Divine are but natural corollaries.The only truly peaceful religions are those who feel secure enough in themselves as to declare that the Divine can be approached in multiple ways and hence do not seek to proselytize. Indeed, it is no coincidence that such religions do not feel the need to keep the flock together by naked threats and invoking fear (the “Fires of Hell” and what have you!). Needless to add, both Islam and Christianity are utterly indefensible from this perspective!

  • RichardHode

    shevalsheshe wrote: “This is a very serious offense against God.”Is that a fact? Did “god” tell you so? And “god” needs to be defended by fanatics carrying posters of old bearded men, screaming “Death to —-” (anyone whom the muslims dislike)? Why don’t you leave it to “god” to fend for himself, fool? Such trash the religious utter, it’s incredible …

  • Farnaz1Mansouri1

    It was one thing when religionists ran around with spears and the like. Now, however, they run around with legislation, bombs, and tanks.What, in 2010, is wrong with this picture.

  • dotrs3

    Lets let common sense prevail. Fanatics aside (from both sides of the issues): who would deny those in overwhelming circumstances some hope, those facing impending/certain death some peace, or those who are helpless in this world some compassion. You do not need to lose for me to win. We would be half way to world peace if we all would but live and let live.

  • MPatalinjug

    Yonkers, New YorkThis clear promise of the prophet Muhammad that goes beyond, far beyond, simple amity to all Christians is one that ought to make Muslims and Christians to live in peace “till the end.”The trouble is that in those “madrassas” in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, and possibly other Muslim countries, young Muslims are “educated” only on certain parts of the Qu’ran and deliberately to hate “infidels.”Nothing in the curriculum of these “madrassas” includes teaching the unbreakable promise that prophet Muhammad made to all Christians.There is only a deliberate distortion of the Qu’ran to suit destructive political agendas in these madrassas.No wonder these madrassas are fertile breeding grounds for jihadists, fundamentalists, extremists and terrorists.Mariano Patalinjug

  • Farnaz1Mansouri1

    MPatalinjugNothing in the curriculum of these “madrassas” includes teaching the unbreakable promise that prophet Muhammad made to all Christians.

  • RichFromTampa

    What a Find! So when can our U.S. Soldiers guarding Saudi Arabia begin to wear their Crucifixes?? RichFromTampa

  • zebra4

    From the article, “THE COLONIAL HOLOCAUST AND ITS LEGACY”:”The New Right is thus essentially an advocate of a world system that encourages Third World enslavement to the Western ideology and, accordingly, general Western dominance, politically, economically and culturally. In reply to this essentially racist conception which elevates European civilisation to a status of universal superiority, we may recall the cuttingly wry observations of Mark Twain: “In many countries we have chained the savage and starved him to death… in many countries we have burned the savage at the stake… we have hunted the savage and his little children and their mother with dogs and guns… in many countries we have taken the savage’s land from him, and made him our slave, and lashed him every day, and broken his pride and made death his only friend, and overworked him till he dropped in his tracks.” “There are many humorous things in the world; among them the white man’s notion that he is less savage than other savages.”

  • captn_ahab

    Would the good Dr. Khan also be willing to explain to his Palestinian Islamist colleagues that the Jewish Second Temple actually stood on the Temple Mount before any Mosque stood there?Would he further be willing to explain that the Mosques were built there because the preceding Jewish Temple had made it a Holy Place, before even the Prophet had heard a single word from Allah?

  • AMviennaVA

    halozcel1 @ December 30, 2009 1:36 PM wrote considerable nonsense, which show ignorance and arrogance. To wit:”Would you please show The Original Document.” Anyone can travel to the monastery and see the document. It has been available and reviewed for many centuries now!”Lets suppose,it’s a Geniune and Original Document.” A meaningless statement. The document has been available and has a documented chain-of-custody history dating back to 628AD.”We can not arrive at anywhere by Fake and Fabricated Documents.” Again, another meaningless statement.I strongly suggest that you (a) mature; (b) open your mind to history; (c) shed yourself of your anglo-centrism.

  • AMviennaVA

    abhab1 @ December 31, 2009 9:32 PM wrote “If this pact is legitimate it would have been specific for St. Catherine monastery, and such alleged promise was not respected for any length of time because the place was looted many times during Mohammad’s life even with the presence of a large Roman garrison.”On the latter part of your statement, you are mistaken: the monastery has not been looted, at any time. You really do need to study some history.On the former part of your statement (“If this pact is legitimate it would have been specific for St. Catherine monastery”), I must direct you to the first and last sentences of the document: “This is a message from Muhammad ibn Abdullah, as a covenant to those who adopt Christianity, near and far, we are with them. … No one of the nation (Muslims) is to disobey the covenant till the Last Day (end of the world).” By ‘near and far’ the document applies to all of creation; and it is valid until the ‘Last Day’.

  • AKafir

    @AMviennaVA:Rubbish. The translation given of Al-Ohda al-Mohamadeyas has been taken from the book ‘Muslim History: 570 – 1950 C.E.’ written by Akram Zahoor. Now Zahoor does not provide any references or copy of the charter. The translation is of a Latin copy of a 9th century document of the Monastry. If you claim a documented chain of custody, provide a reference. Lying and bluster does not make a lie into something real.

  • Farnaz1Mansouri1

    When I say that freedom FROM religion is a basic human right, I think some folks think I’m being rhetorical. I am not. The First Amendment guarantees both freedom of and freedom from religion, by definition.In this country, the Christian/Catholic Right has effected health care legislation, is fighting to legislate marriage requirements, is doing what it can to take choice from women.In this country, the Christian/Catholic Right has decided that it will determine by “conscience” which procedures to perform in state funded hospitals, which prescriptions it will and will not fill.This can be ended. Their excessive influence can be ended in a matter of months. There are many, many believers, of all faiths, who strongly object to Religion influencing legislation.Naked power is being summoned to oppress the people of the United States. If you have lived in a quasi-theocracy, perhaps you can see the signs more clearly–I don’t know.I do know that unlike Iranians, we have options. We can protest, actively. The worst thing we can do is nothing. That is how blasphemy laws are passed. And much, much worse.

  • wrock76taolcom

    RichFromTampa”in your post you stated that the “US soldiers are guarding Sauidi Arabia….”nothing of the kind!

  • sonofliberty09

    The Qur’an is anti Jew and Christian. Therefore Isalm is anti Jew and Christian:Sura 5:51:Sura 9:5WHO ARE THE IDOLATERS?Sura 930-31Answer: Jew and Trinitarian Christians

  • visit_nkusadotorg

    I am not a scholar, so I humbly submit my opinion. I also agree with many things of Neturei Karta so I express affinity with them.(1) This eternal covenant with the Christians extends only to the Christians, not to the Romans who are essentially pagan and use Christian celebration customs but neither believe in it nor practise the essentials of the faith.(2) In the same way, the Jewish faith is defined clearly by obedience to the Torah whose clearest proponents are the Neturei Karta and Torah TRUE jews. This does not extend to ZIONISTS.(3) Hindus have tried to make a space for themselves, mostly with a need to sustain an empire or greater india, but using the argument of multiple paths to truth and not making a judgement of truth but as a cult and essential cult or myth. Then they attack islam by calling it absolutist in truth and values. While hinduism itself decimated buddhism in the indian subcontinent. Even at the tip of Sri Lanka, they sent Tamil Tiger Terrorists trained with Israeli help (reference Ostrovsky) and model of suicide bomber to eliminate it. Majority of them have perverted it to a fascist cult for greater india. I am not a scholar, but my guides are Ostrovsky, and Swami Vivekananda’s writings published by Vedanta movement.(4) Neturei Karta has been a source of major embarrasment and defeat to the hate-mongering ideology of zionists of all stripes, christian, and hindu to use the Jews against Islamic world. Thus recently, Shri Advani and Shri Jaswant Singh have made a major turn, but the Indian leadership refuses to solve the non-religious disputes of Kashmir and foments other land disputes like Palestine.

  • abhab1

    AMvienna chids me thus:”On the latter part of your statement, you are mistaken: the monastery has not been looted, at any time. You really do need to study some history.”ClaimMy other proofs that such an alleged pact could not be general are Quran 9:29 among many others and”Omar Pact”

  • AKafir

    “For scientists like us”That explains a lot why science is where it is in ALL the OIC countries.

  • zebra4

    A. Kafir aka Ibrahim Mahfouz aka Arif 1 aka Arif2 aka CCNL. Any other name?

  • garrafa10

    The only promise I make to Islam is unceasing hostility.

  • zebra4

    The British and other European colonial powers of the past laid the foundations for future conflicts in several parts of the world before they had to leave their former colonies such as Kashmir (conflict between India-Pakistan), Palestine (Palestine-Israel), and Iraq-Kuwait, to name just three.Lord Cromer, Britain’s proconsul in Egypt (1883-1907), divided humanity into “governing races” and “subject races”, while T. E. Lawrence called Egyptians “worms”. This is hardly different from “vermin”, the Nazi epithet for Jews.Lord Balfour, whose 1917 declaration handed over Palestine to Europeans, was intensely anti-Jewish and was so disturbed by the possible mass migration of east European Jews into Britain following pogroms in Russia that as prime minister he had the Aliens Act passed in 1905 to block their migration to Britain. And Mark Sykes (of the Sykes-Picot pact fame) called the Jews “the archetype of cosmopolitan financier, rootless money grubber….contemptible”.Churchill believed that “atheistic Jews” were behind the Russian revolution, and often referred to the Bolsheviks as “bacillus”— a pet Nazi term for Jews. An article “By the Rt. Hon. Winston S. Churchill” in the February 8, 1920, issue of the Illustrated Sunday Herald, named Karl Marx, Bela Kuhn, Rosa Luxembourg and others among Jews who were behind “every subversive movement” in the 19th century. He also accused Trotsky of attempting to set up a world communist empire “under Jewish domination”.

  • californicationdude

    the world will be a better place when all muslims are dead and no is left to worship their false idol, allah.

  • danlacroix

    I can remember as a teenager going into chat rooms on AOL and being provocative and baiting people into fights. Clearly this was immature but it was also surprisingly fun. I hope that the comments posted by Californicationdude are simply an attempt to provoke others. I can’t imagine them being anything else because they are too idiotic to be taken seriously. Californicationdude wrote, “the world will be a better place when all muslims are dead and no is left to worship their false idol, allah.” This comment is so absurd in its ignorance that it can only be seen as humorous. If on the off chance, Californicationdude, you meant what you said then let me say this too you. [written in Californicationdude's style] I, a descendent of Christian warriors from the Great North, turn my attention away form the horizon and look upon the evil within my land. With the sword of God blazing in fury I cast you to oblivion. Also, what is with stupid pseudonyms. Be man enough to stand by your comments with at least your first name.

  • captn_ahab

    zebra4 wrote:”An article “By the Rt. Hon. Winston S. Churchill” in the February 8, 1920, issue of the Illustrated Sunday Herald, named Karl Marx, Bela Kuhn, Rosa Luxembourg and others among Jews who were behind “every subversive movement” in the 19th century. He also accused Trotsky of attempting to set up a world communist empire “under Jewish domination”.Why does any discussion of Islam, the Middle East, and Israel bring out those who have for one reason or another stopped taking their psychotropic medications such that they need to type out their paranoid fantasies on the Web?

  • Farnaz1Mansouri1

    Oddly, this thread reminds me of an old movie I saw awhile ago. I believe it was called “Bridge on the River Kwai” and was set during WWII. A principle character, the highest ranking British officer in a prisoner of war camp, is ordered to have his men build a bridge for the enemy.This he does. He goes to great lengths to erect a spectacular bridge and thereby show the Japanese the superiority of his men and their way of life.Toward the end, he realizes his insanity; he has assisted the enemy, and the bridge must be blown up. Before it is too late, will we know what we have been doing?

  • Darwin26

    ..as an Atheist since birth, i always have to lafffff at the theists especially the ones imprisoned by christianity… That’s right it “Allah” and the lips follow where the mind an heart are… his god was Allah. I’m quite sure that Mohammed would have had me executed for being a Metaphysical Naturalist. And i’m sure that most evangelicals would as well. But the rube is, Atheists do not need any ‘free pass’ or get out of jail cards. Our atheism-center is an anathema to your superstitions. You will kill us. Believers are a fickle lot just like their ‘allahs’.

  • Farnaz1Mansouri1

    zebra4:I don’t know to whom you were directing this Churchill nonsense, but lest you believe that Capt. Ahab, et al, are Jews, let me assure you that they most certainly are not. Either way, you have proven to be a disappointment, not once but again and again. Still, I held out hope since these discussions are inevitably contentious, and I do not want to join you in building bridge on the River Kwai.However, one good Churchill quote deserves another, and I can play this game with you–quoting Christian by Christian commenting alternately on Islam and Judaism, for the next couple of months.In the meantime, if Captin Ahab is correct and you have stopped your medication, consider taking your pills. They may help.Winston Churchill on IslamHow dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy.The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it.No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome.– Sir Winston Churchill (The River War, first edition, Vol. II, pages 248-50 [London: Longmans, Green & Co., 1899]).——————————————-The only Jew posting here has been yours truly, but then, you’re afraid to take on the Christians/Catholics. And you’re not alone among your co-religionists, are you?They prefer to torture and oppresss, rape, beat, starve the Christians. And then they blow them up.Guess what? As you should have figured out by now, those days of Jewish victims are long, long gone. You should have been able to draw that conclusion quite clearly, from me alone.

  • zebra4

    Farnaz1Mansouri1 :You proved my point. There has been a long tradition of racism, anti-Semitism and Islamophobia in Europe. All that led to the Holocaust, European colonialism, and a total annihilation of some human groups.As far as CAPT_AHAB is concerned, I and many others, do not take him seriously. He is a deeply troubled person.And you, Farnaz, you complained about Egyptian Christians or Moroccan Jews. I agreed with you but you remained silent on what is being done to Palestinians.You pick and choose. That is not the way moral arguments are advanced.

  • Farnaz1Mansouri1

    Oh, and Zebra4, spare us that tired righteous indignation drek, beginning with “I served my country, blah, blah, and, of course, blah.”So did I. So do I every day, and so do tens of thousands of others. That does not explain why the remnants of a three-thousand-year-old civilization of Yemeni Jews came to an end last week, with the 355 left forced to emigrate.Why? Because screaming lunatic Islamists raided their villages yelling, “Convert or die!” These were VILLAGERS–carpenters, artisans, shoe repairers–who speak no modern Hebrew, no English.Things came to a head when a thirty-one (31) year old rabbi was murdered by a serviceman, who subsequently boasted of the murder. Amnesty INternational, Human Rights Watch got hold of the story, and Yemen was forced to put the murderer on trial. He was then judged to be non compos mentis (frequently the case in the ME, when the murderer is of a higher caste), but that did not appease either his young widow or the human rights folk. So, he was tried for real, found guilty, of course. There were many witnesses.The man’s wealthy family offered the impoverished young widow 25,000 US dollars in “blood money,” also very common in the MIddle East, outside of Israel, Asia, and Africa. When one accepts the blood money, the murderer is released. Notwithstanding the huge sum offered her, the three orphaned children she has been left to raise alone, the widow, declined the blood money immediately. She is in Yemen, awaiting justice for her murdered young husband.You know all about this, though, Zebra4, since it’s been in the newspapers, and you have read the columns. I posted them to you.Oddly, neither you nor any of our Muslim panelists had anything to say about it. Not a word. That silence does NOT SERVE this country. It is the act of a combatant.

  • NaeraPuruks

    All organized religion should be outlawed and its practitioners brought to justice. Like it was done to fascism and possibly soon to communism as well.

  • Farnaz1Mansouri1

    Farnaz1Mansouri1 :You proved my point. There has been a long tradition of racism, anti-Semitism and Islamophobia in Europe. All that led to the Holocaust, European colonialism, and a total annihilation of some human groups.”Some human groups” include the indigenous peoples on what is the United States, still being genocided, still having their lands stolen, recently awarded an embarrassing pittance. Some groups include the indigenous peoples of Canada (the First Nations) who are treated much as the Dalit of Pakistan, quiet though its kept. Then there are the Taino Indians–completely genocided by the Europeans. Liteally, wiped off the face of the earth and replaced with African slaves.JUst a sampling of the human groups.Read, Zebra4, but you won’t find much that is entertaining. There are left in Egypt three (3) Jews of whom we know. Nearly 2500 years of history gone. Eighty thousand gone.Of the Mizrahi, though, the Yemeni, like the Ethopians were unique. There culture has come to an end. Europe and America, Zebra4. Get it? YET?

  • zebra4

    Farnaz: Here is what I posted this morning with no response from you (which is o.k):Farnaz:*****************************************My statement is very clear. Violence against Jews or any one else is NOT ACCEPTABLE.I think you are also confusing me with someone else on your Tunisia posting. I do not recall any exchange of dialog on the subject.If you scroll down, you will my reproduced statement.

  • zebra4

    Farnaz:Your claim that you know a lot more than I do humbles me a great deal. I wish you and I had some kind of reading meter to read that. Granted, YOU ARE SUPERIOR BUT LAUGHABLE.

  • Farnaz1Mansouri1

    Zebra4,Much of my posting on the Christians was directed to yasseryousufi. I have been to Pakistan and seen the plight of the Christians and Hindus. They are not all suffering, but the situation of the majority, especially of the Christians, is deplorable. Hard, actually, to believe, even when one sees it. There is great poverty in that country all the way around, but, for the most part, the Christians have even fewer rights than most other people. yasseryousufi resorts to name-calling, hate, bigotry, denial, lying. In my posts on the Christians, I responded to his lying, hypocrisy, and baiting. That does not mean that the plight of the Christians should be kept hidden.But what is important here? What does it come down to when we look around, Zebra4? Morally corrupt governments or “government substitutes” fomenting discord. Regional and neo-imperialist coercion. Money. OUr president, the president of the United States is taking a conciliatory approach to the genocidal head of Sudan. Why? China. I’m sure you’ve read about this.Religion, nation state, geopolitics, land, capital, the latter two, unevenly distributed, of course.Sum them and what do you have? Exploitation, torture, human trafficking, rape, starvation, disease, murder, death, etc. One cannot even keep up with who is oppressing whom at any given instant.I don’t think you are a bad person, Zebra4. I never did. I don’t want to build the Bridge over the River Kwai with you, or with anyone else.

  • M_MUTAAL00

    Which Muhammad are we talking about? The Muhammad of the Quran or Muhammad of the Sunnah?They are not the same you know.You know that Muqtadar.

  • abhab1

    Farnaz;

  • zebra4

    Farnaz1Mansouri1:You mentioned your posts on some web sites, I never heard of. I don’t have time to surf through other web sites you seem to use nor do I have that kind of emotional engagement you seem to have.I have been very fortunate or blessed that I came to know many Jews, Christians, Hindus, or Muslims who are kind hearted and who deeply care about humanity. There are good and bad people everywhere.MY BOTTOM LINE IS: TREAT FELLOW HUMANS AS HUMAN BEINGS. The life of a Jewish child is as precious as the life of a Hindu, Christian, or a Muslim child.

  • AKafir

    zebra4:How about the life of a Kaafir ( a pagan, a hindu, a buddhist, a trinitarian christian, etc. )? Is it worth that of a Momin ( a true believing Muslim)? Why is it that in all schools of Sharia, a kaafir woman’s blood money is not even one eigth that of a muslim man? Why is that still on the laws books of Islamic Republic of Iran and Pakistan among other OIC countries?

  • ccnl1

    And the oddity of Islam continues”The (St. Catherine of Alexandria’s) monastery possesses an important historical document, the Achtiname, in which Muhammad is claimed to have bestowed his protection upon the monastery. A Fatimid mosque was built within the walls of the monastery, but it has never been used since it is not correctly oriented towards Mecca.”Then there is this:”Because of the fabulous character of the account of her martyrdom and the lack of reliable documentation, the Roman Catholic Church in 1969 removed her feast day from the General Roman Calendar.”

  • ccnl1

    Hmmm, “zebra4″ is back in big way!! Remember, this is an anonymous blog and imposters abound.

  • ThomasBaum

    levelheaded1 You wrote, “I think the west has failed to recognize that the Muslim/Christian schism”There is NO “Muslim/Christian schism”.schism:a. a formal division within, or separation from, a church or religious body over some doctrinal difference. The god of islam calls Jesus a liar and then claims Jesus as his prophet.Then, “is not just a religious issue but also a “political one”””islam” is about world domination and “Christianity” is about God’s unfolding Plan for the salvation of ALL of humanity and ALL of Creation, there is a difference, wouldn’t you say?Take care, be ready.Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

  • ThomasBaum

    shevalshesheYou wrote, “God and His Word are one.”Doesn’t it say in the bible that “The Word became Flesh”?Did Jesus become “Flesh” or did the bible?Jesus extended the invitation to “Come follow Me”, His invitation was to follow Him, not a book.Jesus died for others, Jesus extended the invitation to follow Him, pretty simple, don’t you think?See you and the rest of humanity in the Kingdom, the new heavens and the new earth.Take care, be ready.Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

  • ThomasBaum

    shevalshesheYou wrote, “No new prophets according to Revelation 22:18-19. Only the prophets of the Bible..”It speaks about no new prophesies not about prophets, as a matter of fact chapter 22 is not the only chapter in Revelation, is it?There are many prophesies in the bible that have not yet been fulfilled, aren’t there?Take care, be ready.Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

  • ccnl1

    In the past, we have offered Professor Khan and other bred, born and brainwashed Muslims, our Five Step Method for Deprograming and Deflawing the Cult of Islam but apparently with only a few takers. We try yet again:Using “The 77 Branches of Islamic “faith” a collection compiled by Imam Bayhaqi as a starting point. In it, he explains the essential virtues that reflect true “faith” (iman) through related Qur’anic verses and Prophetic sayings.” i.e. a nice summary of the Koran and Islamic beliefs.aka as God, Yahweh, Zeus, Jehovah, Mother Nature, etc.” should be added to your cleansing neurons.”2. To believe that everything other than Allah was non-existent. Thereafter, Allah Most High created these things and subsequently they came into existence.”Evolution and the Big Bang or the “Gib Gnab” (when the universe starts to recycle) are more plausible and the “akas” for Allah should be included if you continue to be a “creationist”.”3. To believe in the existence of angels.”A major item for neuron cleansing. Angels/devils are the mythical creations of ancient civilizations, e.g. Hittites, to explain/define natural events, contacts with their gods, big birds, sudden winds, protectors during the dark nights, etc. No “pretty/ugly wingy thingies” ever visited or talked to Mohammed, Jesus, Mary or Joseph or Joe Smith. Today we would classify angels as fairies and “tinker bells”. Modern devils are classified as the demons of the demented. “4. To believe that all the heavenly books that were sent to the different prophets are true. However, apart from the Quran, all other books are not valid anymore.”Another major item to delete. There are no books written in the spirit state of Heaven (if there is one) just as there are no angels/”pwtfft”s to write/publish/ distribute them. The Koran, OT, NT etc. are simply books written by humans for humans. Prophets were invented by ancient scribes typically to keep the uneducated masses in line. Today we call them fortune tellers.”5. To believe that all the prophets are true. However, we are commanded to follow the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) alone.”Mohammed spent thirty days fasting in a hot cave before his first contact with Allah aka God etc. via a “pretty wingy thingy”. Common sense demands a neuron deletion of #5. #5 is also the major source of Islamic violence i.e. turning Mohammed’s “fast, hunger-driven” hallucinations into horrible reality for unbelievers. Accept these five “cleansers” and we guarantee a complete recovery from your Islamic ways!!!!

  • ThomasBaum

    Farnaz1Mansouri1You wrote, “The Nation of Ireland now has a BLASPHEMY LAW.It went into effect today. The story is receiving coverage all around the world.The decline, so to speak, of the West.I agree.Or another way to put it is, the night of the sixth day is descending upon us.Isn’t it something that so many want to throw away their “freedom” for “security” and will end up with neither.Take care, be ready.Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

  • abhab1

    A glaring example of how their Muslim cult has blinded the Arabs in more than way is their obsession with western colonialism. They are never at loss to cite links to such topics as Western Colonialists Holocaust etc. They blame the West for everything they consider evil. Most of western colonialism to the Arab lands had not exceeded 3 decades, during which the French and British had opened it to the rest of the world, after it was held prisoner within the confines of an oppressive and ignorant Turkish Caliphate domination curtain for over 400 years. You never hear them complain about the Turkish subjugation that pushed them back to the Stone Age during the period WHEN the West moved from the Dark Ages to the Industrial Revolution. You never hear them admit, let alone show gratitude, to the infrastructure that the Western colonialists build for them nor the modern institutions that they put in place for them. All you hear is complaints, complaints and more complaints about “the infidel West”. None of the complaints are directed to the ones who deserve it; themselves first and Turkey next.

  • ThomasBaum

    Farnaz1Mansouri1 You wrote, “Islam, like Christianity, believes it is the last word. It believes the Quoran supercedes both NT and Tanakh, corrects the errors in both.”I do not “believe” that the NT “supercedes” the “Tanakh” and you know that because I have written about it before, directly to you.I have said that the NT is an ongoing unfolding of God’s Plan for all of humanity.The “Tanakh” is about God’s choosing and forming the “Chosen People”. You neither believe in God nor believe that the Jews are the “Chosen People”, so what the “Tanakh” is ultimately about, you dismiss and yet you hoard it.God is not about “hoarding”, God is about “sharing”.I would like to ask, what is the “argument” that I make for the NT?See you and the rest of humanity in the Kingdom, the new heavens and the new earth, not only is this “spoken of” in Revelation but also in Genesis, “On the seventh day, God Blest, Rested and Made Holy. Take care, be ready.Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

  • zebra4

    ABHAB, who admitted to Farnaz, that he used to post under the name of Ibrahim Mahfouz, claims that Western Colonialism lasted only a few decades. He never read Prof. Marty Martin’s (a panelists here)2006 statement:”I know I’ll get hit for suggesting “equivalencies” here, though I am always clear in stating that there is no equivalency between today’s radical and extreme Muslims and today’s ordinary Christians. But it also must be said that Christians, from the 4th Century to the 18th Century, can match the Muslims one-for-one when it comes to having spread the faith with the sword. Read the history of the Christianization of Europe, and you have to go hunting for that minority of the faithful who spread the faith without the sword, merely by witness and works.”Was the use of the name Ibrahim Mahfouz to pose as a Muslim to deceive readers?Western Colonialism began nearly 5 centuries ago and is still being practiced today. It may have changed in form but not its goals.In 1945, the French Air Force bombed several Algerian cities. More than 15,000 men, women, and children were killed.In 1919, the British General by the name of Dyer ordered his soldiers to shoot unarmed men, women and children at Jallianwala Bagh in Amritsar, India.Several hundred men, women, and children were killed. The British Army kept on shooting untill they ran out of ammunition.The Spaniards destroyed the civilizations of the Maya,the Inca, and the Aztecs.The British decimated the Australian aborigines.The list is very long.

  • abhab1

    Zebra asks:

  • AKafir

    zebra4: “The list is very long.”The logic is indeed strange. If Christians were evil historically, does that mean it gives license to the Muhammadans to be as evil now in the present? Where should the descendants of the 3 million butchered Bengalis (mostly muslims)go to complain about the Mullahs of Pakistan who killed them because they were not Muslim enough? Where should the Shias in Karachi go to complain of the killing on Ashura by the suicide bomber of the Taliban last week because the Taliban consider the Shias as Kaafirs? Where should the Ahmaddiyas of Pakistan go to complain of the many killings they have had to suffer because the Shias and the Sunnis of Pakistan consider the Ahmaddiyas as Kaafirs? They should all understand that all this current insanity and brutality is acceptable because the evil of Christianity list is long?

  • ccnl1

    Hmmm, “zebra4″ continues to comment !! Remember, this is an anonymous blog and imposters abound.And “zebra4″ whoever he/she is continues to forget the examples set by the followers of Judaism for their Chrisian and Muslim colonialists when it comes to treatment/conversion of non-believers:To wit:Biblical/Torah Detailed AtrocitiesExodus 32: 3,000 Israelites killed by Moses for worshipping the golden calf. Numbers 31: After killing all men, boys and married women among the Midianites, 32,000 virgins remain as booty for the Israelites. (If unmarried girls are a quarter of the population, then 96,000 people were killed.) Joshua: Joshua 8: 12,000 men and women, all the people of Ai, killed. Joshua 10: Joshua completely destroys Gibeon (“larger than Ai”), Makeddah, Libnah, Lachish, Eglon, Hebron, Debir. “He left no survivors.” Joshua 11: Hazor destroyed. [Paul Johnson, A History of the Jews (1987), estimates the population of Hazor at ?> 50,000] Judges 1: 10,000 Canaanites k. at Battle of Bezek. Jerusalem and Zephath destroyed.Judges 8: 120,000 Midianite soldiers k. by Gideon Judges 20: Benjamin attacked by other tribes. 25,000 killed.David: 2 Samuel 8: 22,000 Arameans of Damascus and 18,000 Edomites killed in 2 battles.2 Samuel 18: 20,000 Israelites under Absalom killed at Ephraim.1 Kings 20: 100,000 Arameans killed by Israelites at Battle of Aphek. Another 27,000 killed by collapsing wall.2 Chron 25: Amaziah, king of Judah, k. 10,000 from Seir in battle and executed 10,000 POWs. Discharged Judean soldiers pillaged and killed 3,000. 2 Chron 28: Pekah, king of Israel, slew 120,000 Judeans TOTAL: That comes to about 1,283,000 mass killings specifically enumerated in the Bible/Torah.

  • ThomasBaum

    Farnaz1Mansouri1 You wrote, “It was one thing when religionists ran around with spears and the like. Now, however, they run around with legislation, bombs, and tanks.What, in 2010, is wrong with this picture.”What is wrong with “this picture” is that it is not only “religionists”, as you put it, but also “non-religionists”.By “non-religionists”, I mean all of those that are not covered by your banner of “religionists”.Man’s inhumanity to man is not limited to “everyone else but me and my kind” but seems to be pretty much “inclusive”.Spewing out hatred and bigotry toward “others” is most definitely not limited to those that believe in God or some kind of “higher power” as witnessed by the comments that appear on these postings.As I have said, God looks at the person, not the “label”.Take care, be ready.Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

  • ThomasBaum

    zebra4You wrote, “Farnaz: You and I are in agreement on the concerns for HUMANITY, which is why the following is a good reading:”No one can change the “past” whether it is one’s own, someone else’s or groups of others.No one can live anyone else’s life except for their own.Many that dwell on the “wrongs” of the “past” justify their own “wrong” of the present and the cycle just goes on and on and on, does it not?Pointing out “other’s” wrong whether in the past or in the present reminds me of something attributed to Jesus, “Why look for the speck in your brother’s eye when there is a beam in your own?”I thank God that God has a Plan and that God is our Judge and not our fellow human beings.Take care, be ready.Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

  • clearthinking1

    What a joke!”Muslims and Christians together constitute over 50 percent of the world. If they lived in peace, we would be half way to world peace”. What about Buddhists and Hindus?The other 50% already know how to live in peace with other religions. It is the SUPREMACIST ideas underlying Islam and Christianity that is the source of the problems.Every religious conflict has muslims or christians fighting on one side or both.This is more of the same desperate attempts by muslims to deny the obvious and try to act like a “religion o’ peace”.All this does is provide cover for the islamic terrorists.

  • abhab1

    Zebra claims:

  • Farnaz1Mansouri1

    Abhab1:Farnaz;I don’t recall my having asked the question, but will say you have excellent taste in reading!Farnaz

  • zebra4

    “I do think that we have a shared interest in humanity. That is, perhaps, the most important thing.”I will admit I know little about Iran. What I read in the newspapers hardly makes me knowledgable about any country.But our common interest in HUMANITY is the most valuable tiny contribution we can make.

  • txmom

    I have to disagree with your comment “I think the capacity to seek good and do good inheres in all of us.” I believe man is born with a sin nature, not an inherent good one. An example: you don’t have to teach a child to be bad — if left to his own devices, he would terrorize his preschool. You have to TEACH him to be GOOD. We are inherently evil by human nature. Doing good is hard work, because it goes against what is “easy.”

  • Amillennialist

    Khan and his obfuscating, half-truth-telling, misdirecting, dissembling coreligionists are bald-faced liars.The only standing promises of any relevance to Christians (and other non-Muslims) are those to rape, enslave, and butcher any who refuse the “invitation” to Islam: “the Messenger of Allah . . . would say: ‘Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war. . . . When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. . . . Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them. . . . If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah’s help and fight them . . .’” (Muslim Book 19, Number 4294). “fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war) . . . ” (Qur’an 9:5). “Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued” (Qur’an 9:29). “The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter . . . ” (Qur’an 5:33). [Ibn Kathir says of this verse: "'Wage war' mentioned here means, oppose and contradict, and it includes disbelief, blocking roads and spreading fear in the fairways. Mischief in the land refers to various types of evil." So, Muhammad requires execution, crucifixion, or cutting off hands and feet from opposite sides for "disbelief."] “Allah’s Apostle said: ‘I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah’s Apostle . . . ‘” (Bukhari Volume 1, Book 2, Number 24). “It is not for any prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land. Ye desire the lure of this world and Allah desireth (for you) the Hereafter, and Allah is Mighty, Wise” (Qur’an 8:67). “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘I have been made victorious with terror’” (Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 220).And that’s only a sampling.