Southern Baptists Oust Church

The slowly shrinking Southern Baptist Convention voted on Tuesday to sever 125-year-old ties with a Texas church that allowed homosexual … Continued

The slowly shrinking Southern Baptist Convention voted on Tuesday to sever 125-year-old ties with a Texas church that allowed homosexual members to have their photos in the church directory.

Messengers (delegates) to the SBC’s annual meeting voted overwhelmingly to disassociate from Forth Worth’s Broadway Baptist Church, following an executive committee ruling Monday that the congregation “failed to establish its compliance” with the SBC rules that ban churches that “act to affirm, approve or endorse homosexual behavior.”

According to the Associated Baptist Press, “it was the first time the SBC has ejected a church simply because denominational officials perceive that the congregation is in violation of a policy prohibiting affiliation with pro-gay churches.”

Since doctrinal conservatives took control of the Southern Baptist Convention in the early 1980s, the association has been getting smaller and more exclusive, at various times rejecting Baptist liberals and moderates, women clergy, Bill Clinton and Jimmy Cater, Mormons and Muslims and Jews, public schools and Walt Disney, and, in 1993, churches that are welcoming and affirming of gays.

This year, for the fourth year in a row, Southern Baptist churches baptized fewer people than last year. The number of annual baptisms per church member — a key indicator of church growth — has dropped sharply in the past 50 years. Southern Baptists baptized one person for every 19 church members in 1950, a ratio that dropped to 1 baptism for every 47 church members in 2008.

Two years ago, then-SBC president Frank Page said the declining numbers can be blamed, in part, on a perception that Baptists are “mean-spirited, hurtful and angry people” and that the denomination has been known too much in recent years for “what we’re against” than “what we’re for,” Page said.

“Our culture is increasingly antagonistic and sometimes adverse to a conversation about a faith in Christ. Sometimes that’s our fault because we have not always presented a winsome Christian life that would engender trust and a desire on the part of many people to engage in a conversation on the Gospel,” he said.

“All Southern Baptists should recommit to a life of loving people and ministering to people without strings attached so people will be more open to hearing the Gospel message.”

That’s apparently the approach Broadway Baptist tried to take in 2007, when gay couples who were attending Broadway asked to have their portraits in the church directory. Rather than reject the request, the congregation voted to publish a directory with candid snapshots and group shots rather than with traditional individual or family photos.

“We are disappointed with the decision of the Southern Baptist Convention,” said Kathy Madeja, the church’s deacon chair, in a statement released shortly after Tuesday’s vote. “Our mission at Broadway is and will continue to be consistent with the SBC’s stated enterprise of reaching the world for Christ. Like other SBC churches, membership at Broadway is by acceptance of Jesus as Savior and Lord and the experience of believer’s baptism by immersion.

“We do not believe Broadway has taken any action which would justify its being deemed not in friendly cooperation with the SBC. It is unfortunate that the Southern Baptist Convention decided otherwise and has severed its affiliation with Broadway Baptist Church.”

Broadway might not be the only Southern Baptist congregation facing an ouster this week. Influential Southern Baptist pastor and blogger Wade Burleson predicts that the Convention also will be asked to disassociate from First Baptist Church of Decatur, Ga., which recently called a woman to be its lead pastor. The SBC’s Faith and Message, revised in 2000, clearly states that “the office of pastor is limited to men.”

“The world may not understand our firm view on homosexuality. So be it,” Burleson wrote. “But when half of conservative evangelical Christianity doesn’t understand why we would disassociate from churches that call women as pastors, then we lose as a Convention. Let’s debate the women in ministry issue. Let’s disagree with one another amicably. But for heaven’s sake, let’s not make fools of ourselves by equating women preaching the gospel with homosexual sin.”

By the way, the theme for this year’s Southern Baptist Convention: “Love Loud: Actions Speak Louder Than Words.”

About

  • outragex

    Many SBC churches in the West are changing their names to disguise or de-emphasize their SBC affiliation. Often these churches use a very small-type “SBC” on signs and publications. Baptists tell me that this helps the SBC member find them without turning off the new member from outside the fold. The disaffiliated church in this story will probably do just fine, and will now have the freedom to discuss doctrinal issues with more open minds. SBC apologized and repented for their stance on slavery after only 150 years. Maybe they will apologize to women and gays about 2160.

  • Karman

    The SBC is finding out the hard way that in a post-modern world, standards no longer exist. Tell someone they’re headed in the wrong direction and you’re judging them. God forbid!Live and let live is the order of the day; and hope Jesus feels the same way about things He called sin while on earth, when He returns. Ouch! Gonna be a lot of surprised folk who thought they could create Him in their own image.

  • coloradodog

    Ah, the New Testament Love of Jesus, Baptist style.

  • Farnaz1Mansouri1

    Hmmm….Sounds kinda Ahmadinejadish.

  • abby0802

    The SBC reminds me of why are Founding Fathers wanted separation of church and state.The SBC reminds me of some Mullahs in Iran….

  • Midknight

    Sounds like they are on a parallel course with the GOP. Losing membership and becoming increasinly irrelevant due to their narrow bigoted viewpoint.

  • daneM

    The Bible says homosexuals will not go to Heaven-i.e. they got to Hell-1 Cor.6:9,10.

  • nboatr

    As a member of the cloth, i’m in tears…this story hurts to much. jesus told us to hate sin/ not the sinner.we are commanded to love everyone(EVERYONE). kicking out every group thats different from you is just– anti-christian. god wants us to save the world -not the part that looks like yourselfs.

  • squier13

    The worst part about this whole mess is that gods aren’t even real.

  • feufolletgem

    The problem with fundamentalists is fundamental. They accuse others of not holding to the letter of the bible while they themselves turn a blind eye to Matthew chapter 28. That scripture is where Jesus commands his folowers to do EVERYTHING THAT HE HAS COMMANDED.It’s pretty obvious that nominal Christian conservatives by the masses are not doing what Jesus told them to do. Jesus was a model for the faithful. Those who accept him to be their own personal savior are to be constantly moving to BE LIKE HIM.The nominal Christian conservative establishment is NOT trying to be like Jesus. They have been caught in the trap of THE THINGS OF THIS WORLD. Their unbridled desire for power and possessions has blinded them to their current position.They have thrown in their lot with the most ignorant, prejudiced, greedy, war-mongering, hypocritical part of the USA.They are an absurd cult, inflicting huge damage to the kingdom of God.It should be remembered that Jesus was forgiving to those who misunderstood but was enraged by the conservative religious hypocrites.An Orange County evangelical pointed out to me that at the time the gay marriage law passed God sat huge forest fires in northern California. I asked her why God unloosed horrific hurricanes and tornadoes on the Bible Belt. She answered that sometimes the good must suffer for the sins of the fallen.I asked her about Rick Warren. She said she was glad he got John McCain and Osama bin Laden together at his church so the world could see the truth.I mentioned to another conservative evangelical in Central Cal that Jesus said the most important commandment was to love God, and the second was to love our neighbors as we love ourselves, and that all the law and prophets depend on this.Ann Coulter said that it was just a little footnote when Jesus said we had to be nice to each other.My point is to people like the SBC establishment. Did you take a close look at the faces at the Republican Convention when the hurricane rained on their parade? Do they want to listen to their God? Perhaps they think there’s safety in numbers.No offense meant here to any non-Christians. Peace to all.

  • db11231

    This reminds me of one of my favorite jokes… What’s the difference between Jews, Protestants and Baptists? Jews don’t recognize Jesus as the son of God, Protestants don’t recognize the Pope as God’s representative on Earth, and Baptists don’t recognize each other in the liquor store. Hypocrites. All of ‘em. Keep digging a hole.Oh, and Danem, you really need to stop obsessing about homosexuality. People might start talking. Especially Baptists.

  • roscym1

    The SBC is getting more and more like their major nemesis: the Roman Catholic Church. Both put dogma before ministry.

  • potaboc

    A significant fact (at last to me) wasn’t given. How were these individuals identified? I can see how it would have (at least) given the appearance of acceptance if they specifically identified themselves as homosexual. If they didn’t, how did the matter come up in the first place?

  • adrienne_najjar

    Intolerant hypocrites. “let he who is without sin, cast the first stone”

  • hitpoints

    And no tax collectors or loose women, either!

  • paris1969

    The SBC has a right to their theology, even if it is bigoted, narrow-minded, and contradicts the teachings of Jesus.

  • ClarkKent1

    Quotes are from daneM’s post:OK, if so, then the punishment is already assured from God directly, and the SBC doesn’t have to cut off a church for having photos of gay people who are church-going Baptists.”Homosexuals are called “God-haters…senseless.. .heartless and ruthless..” Rom.1:30,31″”Homosexuality is un-natural and therefore against nature Rom.1:26,27″”Homosexuality is unclean. The Greek word is for all sexual immorality which includes outside marriage.-Mark 7:20-23″”They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of Eternal Fire.”Jude 7″

  • BennyFactor

    As a heterosexual, I spend about 1% of my time in sexual activity (about 1.68 of 168 hrs/wk.). So why are we required to pigeonhole people based on an acivity that we spend so little time doing. Yes, it is a sin. But so is the arrogance of taking on a role that is susposed to be God’s – that of knowing and judging. Satan was expelled for this very type of arrogance. I don’t suggest we condone it. We are to choose wisely based on the gift of discernment God provides us. But there is no condemnation in Christ.

  • razzl

    The world becomes a better place when people walk away from that which is unacceptable and offer up their own vision to like-minded people. Like when atheists walk away from Christianity because they can’t pretend any more to believe in the supernatural; like when Catholics leave the church because it refuses to relinquish its all-male dictatorship; like when Baptists find that they can be the kind of Christians they feel they should without having any connection to SBC; like when a man named Jesus stepped away from the authority of the rabbis of Jerusalem because they were on the Roman payroll…

  • ccnl1

    The gay photo section was called:”Members of the Mutual Masterbation Wing”(note: Googling “mutual masturbation” will result in over one million hits so it is a commonly used term.)

  • rb-freedom-for-all

    Don’t drink the SBC Kool-Aid!

  • gratianus

    Why can’t you liberal humnanists just leave good folk like us alone to practice our faith? Can’t you read the Bible to see that the gay lifestyle is anathema to our Lord? On the other hand, I’m wondering why they ever did away with slavery, since the New Testament accepts it as part of daily life, and even praises the slave’s devotion to his master as a model of the faithful’s devotion to God (1 Timothy 6:1-3 et passim).Hmmm. Maybe the Bible is the product of a primitive society that no longer exists? Just as medical science in Roman Palestine no longer makes much sense today, perhaps slavish devotion to what that time considered sinful no longer makes sense? Maybe were the whole story played out in today’s world, the way this group of Southern Baptists define themselves would be less primitive, less hateful, less useless. Gee, maybe those humanists have something to teach us about love, society and what being a good person demands.

  • chatard

    Meacham and Quinn continue their crusade to demean, debase and defame the Christian religion by attacking singular beliefs and tenets of particular churches as mean-spirited and illustrative as to why people shouldn’t practice their faith or read their bibles. Oh, and it’s always WHITE, AMERICAN, Christianity they attack, they don’t go overseas or into black churches. Its more convenient to attack traditional, mainstream majority churches in a political way and then purport to agree with the separation of church and state. It is ALL political and ALL an effort to de-America America.

  • feufolletgem

    Danem, every passage except the one from Jude was from Paul. I’m not saying that Paul was not inspired by God the Father and Jesus, but on more than one occasion he mentions that he is speaking from his own opinion.Jesus was much more profound than Paul, and he said that the son of man does only that which he sees the father do. This is different than Paul who somehow is left, here and there, to his own opinions.I’m occasionally impressed that many nominal Christians seem to hide behind Paul’s robes so they won’t have to stand front and center before the command of Jesus himself.They seem to be telling us that ‘Paul said so, so that’s the way it is’. Go back to your savior and place him first. If you do that you might find that your attitude toward homosexuals will become like Jesus’ attitude to the woman at the brink of being stoned for her transgression.In my mind the problem of the homosexual is the same as the problem of the heterosexual. A Zen master once said the problem is not with eating meat. The problem is the hook. Perhaps this applies to all of us who are not perfect. And Jesus said no one is perfect except your heavenly father.Danem, go out and love the world and forgive them as you would also be forgiven. This perhaps is your ticket to heaven.

  • gratianus

    Hey, Chatard. As you might have gleaned from my satirical post, I’m not a big fan of bigotry, and your post that presumes that Christianity is in some way synonomous with America is patently offensive, and, not to be too polite about it, plain stupid. I’m quite prepared to criticize those black churches that are homophobic, just as I’m willing to take on those Jewish synagogues that equate any criticism of Israel with anti-semitism.

  • jaydelott

    Jesus presented two commandments, love God before all others and love others as thy self. Jesus did not say a word about homosexuality, demonstrating just how important the issue was to Him.

  • coloradodog

    Wonder if these “Christians” ever sued Fred Phelps for using the name “Westboro Baptist Church”Of course, Westboro has not “failed to establish its compliance” with the SBC rules that ban churches that “act to affirm, approve or endorse homosexual behavior.”

  • feufolletgem

    Sorry to speak so much, but I’m a bit sparked.The nominal Christian establishment is very incensed about homosexuality and abortion rights.Have your opinion, but drop out from the sins of the far right. Don’t become a liberal. Be like the flower children, drop out and sweep the world like they did. You can do it. If you’re really correct you’ll have God on your side. I’m not being sarcastic here. You see I know that miracles exist. Put the miracle into play and you won’t have to be grumpy people shriveling like raisins because your god is exposing you for what you are.Here’s a campaign to put into play: Raise a hew and cry against obesity in the USA. Gluttony is one of the seven deadly sins. The Christian Right is horribly afflicted with obesity while the world starves. You might say that much of the fault is lies with those corporations with powerful lobbies in Washington that keep the toxic food poisoning the fooled masses. That’s part of it, but the other part is the DESIRE of these holier than everyone else people who are destroying themselves and the planet by consuming much more beef and corn sweetener than is morally correct. Yes, start a revolution on this front. You don’t think that God pays attention to the rapine committed by these types? Take another look.

  • DIMMY

    These are the kind of people who think Ronald Reagan is GOD. I feel bad for their children.

  • MrZ2

    What would one expect from the Southern Baptist Convention / Klu Klux Klan organization. They both are one in the same bigoted hate organization that they always have been. They preach the bible, but in actuality are an anti-Christian religion that practice the teachings of Lucifer, the Fallen Angel, using the Name of Jesus Christ on their banners and in vain. They only tolerate Blacks, Hispanics, and other non-whites for such menial tasks as scrubbing the lavatories of their churches, making them acceptably clean for southern white folks to use. From history: Jesus was tortured and murdered by intolerant folks two millennia ago in Israel. Why should one expect the SBC/KKK to accept gay-folks, as that would be construed as following the Jesus’ teachings of love instead of Lucifer’s teachings of hate and intolerance. That would be akin to accepting Black folks as equal to white folks.

  • SteelWheel25

    This is shameful! The SBC represents the antithesis of what Jesus is all about! Homosexuality is no more a sin than adultery but how many adulterers do you suppose the SBC excommunicated or severed ties with a church for admitting adulterers? Even the unrepentant ones??? I lost all faith & respect in the SBC, Liberty U, and Focus on the Family ever since they came to the conclusion that being a staunch republican is more desired than being a good and descent Christian. When they declare that Jesus doesn’t exist in the Democratic Party or with people who don’t do as they say to do!!! But rest assured, there is one god the SBC will not forsake and that god is Money! When their money start getting really funny they’ll change their tune! After the next political election cycle we’ll see the republicans publicly denouncing these religious phonies and declining their endorsements. Yea, this is already happening!

  • Alex511

    fr outragex:>…SBC apologized and repented for their stance on slavery after only 150 years. Maybe they will apologize to women and gays about 2160.Um, don’t hold your breath. I’m sure not.

  • Alex511

    fr coloradodog:>Wonder if these “Christians” ever sued Fred Phelps for using the name “Westboro Baptist Church”Good question, but that’s the problem. phreddie the TAX EVADER loves to sue people, that’s how he gets his $$. His so-called “church” consists only of his family members that will associate with him, various “friends” and other hangers-on who wander thru the area. I’ve a good friend that phreddie went after because he found out that my friend is gay, and was one of his kids’ debate coach in college. K, my friend, told phred ONCE where to put it, and phred never bothered him again. You see, my friend is a former Kansas trial judge. He performed my wife’s and my marriage last year.

  • sarahabc

    Acceptance & understanding in church? God forbid!

  • pgr88

    SBC is not “against” homosexuals, as it is not against any “sinner.” It IS against those who persist in their sin or those who even try to glorify their sin as something other than it is. Why is that so difficult to understand? If Gays believe homosexual behavior is fine, they can create their own gay church. Let’s see how that goes….

  • seismic-2

    I wonder whether the SBC will in fact cut off affiliation with the First Baptist of Decatur now that it has called a woman to be lead pastor. If the SBC does vote to kick that church out, then it will be fascinating to see what statement they will make about the vote. In 2009, that may take some explaining! It is interesting that so many of the same Southern Baptists who think that God would approve of a woman’s (namely Sarah Palin) becoming President of the United States also feel that God would disapprove of a woman’s becoming pastor of a small Baptist church in Georgia. A woman’s place is in the Oval Office but not in the pulpit?

  • Garak

    Just like al Qaeda declaring moderate Muslims to be takfir. Will the SBC next declare gays to be open game for killing?

  • hyjanks

    ‘Sounds like their big tent is becoming pup-sized. How’s Elmer Gantry going to fit into something that small? Where will they put the snakes?

  • djah

    The SBC is clearly entitled to hold whatever views it wishes. But the hard fact is that it is dramatically out of touch with the carefully developed views of a great majority of Americans. When the SBC – a HUMAN institution with no direct line to G – condemns these good and moral people as sinners, it is easy to understand that religion isn’t dying – it is commiting suicide by hubris/

  • widener1973

    So in the spirit of love and in the name of affectionate pluralism and inclusion we should forget that practicing homosexual behavior is a sin. Yes I know we all sin and I have no doubt that the blood of Christ can wipe it all away. However, what we are discussing here is an area of sin in someone’s life that they have decided they are OK with. Therein lies the problem. The actual sin is arbitrary. If there remains a sin grevious to God after your salvation that you are comfortable practicing daily with no conviction whatsoever, you need to question that salvation. See a distinction needs to be made here. Being homosexual is not a sin, practicing homosexual behavior is. Being a sinner and welcoming other sinners will not get you booted from the SBC. Living an open lifestyle of sin (whatever it may be)and a church that welcomes those that do so will get you booted from the SBC. Now I know that all this is tremendously unpopular with most people, but I offer no apologies. The Bible says what the Bible says. One more thing. Could it be possible, just maybe, that the reason that the SBC’s numbers are dwindling is that they are one of the few denominations that doesn’t feel it necessary to compromise God’s word for accessability, inclusion, and pluralism? Just a thought. Fire away.

  • Farnaz1Mansouri1

    Razzl”like when a man named Jesus stepped away from the authority of the rabbis of Jerusalem because they were on the Roman payroll…

  • Farnaz1Mansouri1

    What is it with this Christian obsessing with sex?Isn’t there something else to obsess about, Christianly speaking? No offense, but, I mean, it does get old, as in who else cares, so why do you?

  • ccnl1

    Gay Reality:Thou shalt Not Commit Adultery and Thou Shall Not Covet Thy Neighbors’ Wife/Husband/Partner with the corollary of Thou Shalt Not Fornicate pertain not only to heterosexual couples but also homosexual couples. This probably is no concern to non-Christians or non-Jews but it should be a major concern to those religious types that believe in the teachings of the OT, NT, the Commandments and all of its corollaries. So we have a Christian God who supposedly created all of us to include homosexuals. Said God is therefore responsible for the defective gene/mind-set that causes homosexuality. One might conclude from this that the Christian God would therefore approve same-sex unions since that is the only sin-free state where any type of couple-sex can be performed.And just a reminder, reiteration is a fundamental learning method.

  • Farnaz1Mansouri1

    Judaism is not homogeneous, praises due. Hence, Reformed, Conservative Egalitarian and Reconstructionist Judaism accepts gay congregants without question. There are also OrthodoxIES, plural. Some categorically exclude gays; others are struggling with the issue.FOR MANY A LONG YEAR, TaNakh exegetes have recognized that the prohibition against sexual relations between men (NB: women are not mentioned) referred to RAPE, technically, not sex, btw,, which had been the common practice among conquering armies.See any and all recent Oxford Study Bibles.Also, worth a read: The Contending of Joris and Seth.

  • Farnaz1Mansouri1

    Judaism is not homogeneous, praises due. Hence, Reformed, Conservative Egalitarian and Reconstructionist Judaism accepts gay congregants without question. There are also OrthodoxIES, plural. Some categorically exclude gays; others are struggling with the issue.FOR MANY A LONG YEAR, TaNakh exegetes have recognized that the prohibition against sexual relations between men (NB: women are not mentioned) referred to RAPE, technically, not sex, btw,, which had been the common practice among conquering armies.See any and all recent Oxford Study Bibles.Also, worth a read: The Contending of Joris and Seth.

  • spidermean2

    Homosexuality is a DISEASE — a perverted mindset. I would like to attend a church which has only ten members but with correct doctrine rather than with a thousand members who lives like the devil. The SBC will only become stronger with this ruling. God chose to save just one family (Noah) and doomed the rest who disobeyed his will. It’s not a numbers game but who follows God’s word.

  • orthodoxheathen

    “The world may not understand our firm view on homosexuality. So be it,” Burleson wrote. “But when half of conservative evangelical Christianity doesn’t understand why we would disassociate from churches that call women as pastors, then we lose as a Convention. Let’s debate the women in ministry issue. Let’s disagree with one another amicably. But for heaven’s sake, let’s not make fools of ourselves by equating women preaching the gospel with homosexual sin.”The Bible opposes homosexuality, but it also forbids women from even SPEAKING in church, much less being pastors. Mr. Burleson, like many Christians of your ilk, you make a fool of yourself twice: first by basing your beliefs on an outmoded 2,000-year-old book, and second by not even knowing what it says.

  • spidermean2

    orthodoxheathen wrote ” Mr. Burleson, like many Christians of your ilk, you make a fool of yourself twice: first by basing your beliefs on an outmoded 2,000-year-old book, and second by not even knowing what it says.”How can the Bible be outmoded when it speaks of the idiots in this current generation in the Book of Revelation to be burned to the ground? It’s a FUTURISTIC book predicting what will happen 2000 years forward. And that means NOW.

  • danw1

    I believe in God and I don’t go to church. People at church either look down their nose at me or try to sell me Amway. No thanks.

  • orthodoxheathen

    “How can the Bible be outmoded when it speaks of the idiots in this current generation in the Book of Revelation to be burned to the ground? It’s a FUTURISTIC book predicting what will happen 2000 years forward. And that means NOW.”Ya got me there, Spidey. That’s some airtight logic.

  • spidermean2

    orthodoxheathen wrote ” Mr. Burleson, like many Christians of your ilk, you make a fool of yourself twice: first by basing your beliefs on an outmoded 2,000-year-old book, and second by not even knowing what it says.”How can the Bible be outmoded when it speaks of the idiots in this current generation in the Book of Revelation to be burned to the ground? It’s a FUTURISTIC book predicting what will happen 2000 years forward. And that means NOW.

  • Brittman1

    What self respecting gay person would want to be part of the SBC? These creepy little bigots don’t deserve a second thought. If these people are “Christians,” I’m Napoleon.May they burn in Hell – soon. :)

  • glennmorangie

    Well, it looks like the TaliBaptists are still in power. I heard a sermon from a Baptist pastor in St. Louis last week, pointing out all of the ways that Baptists can be more “baptist” than Christian. Because Jesus drank wine, he would not be accepted by many Baptists today!Very article, thank you.

  • glennmorangie

    I meant to say “Very nice article, thank you.”

  • spidermean2

    It’s a question of reading comprehension. The idiots seem lacking in this area.”Likewise, their men have given up natural sexual relations with women and burn with lust for each other. Men commit indecent acts with men, so they experience among themselves the PUNISHMENT they deserve for their perversion. ” (Romans 1:27)

  • Chops2

    If god is so against homosexuality why did he create it? Even animals perform homosexual acts showing its not a “choice” its natural.SBC: join us in the 21st century and just be nice tolerant people. Is it asking so much?

  • Chops2

    Spidermean:Sounds like Sadaam or the Mullahs in Iran. Isn’t America fighting against acts like this?Obey or die: so loving, thank you god for all those choices.

  • kaylancor

    I think the statistics need to be redone for this article. Conservative Baptists are growing in my opinion and though I’m not one of their flock, I agree with many of their decisions. They are following Christ not advocating hate. They are setting the limits as to what is moral and spiritually right for their church and that is what any denomination has to do if they wish to follow Christ. Jesus didn’t say have a “free for all, do what you want” church. No, He said to follow the Commandments, to be morally upright people. Loving someone doesn’t mean you accept their immoral behavior. If they are going against the Bible teachings, they are not following God no matter how much their mouth says they are.

  • spidermean2

    If perversion would be allowed in a church, what’s the use of a church then? To preach stupidity? In fact that is what happens now and that is why Doomsday is coming soon. Very soon.More wars are coming and it will all culminate to an all out nuke war. The cities which will burn in America, they are the ones God considers as idiots. It’s not a coincidence that those most vulnerable to nuke attacks like the coastal cities in east and west are very liberal and allow gay marriages. They are set to be doomed. It’s also not a coincidence that the very conservative and true believers of God are located at the central region. They are the safest to nuke attacks. If ever a missile stray, these folks believe in missile defense shield unlike the liberals.God has made it that way. It’s the hand of God working slowly but very sure.

  • cambridge-persistence

    Pathetic crackers, SBC and LDS should enter into polygamous marriage and leave the rest of us alone.

  • spidermean2

    Kruhn1 wrote “This is the church (which supported slavery) that was formed in 1845 out a group of Baptists in the South who rejected the view from the rest of the Baptist Church “God is just and they paid dearly for that mistake. The South was devastated during the civil war.This time, it’s different. They are now the Godly and the NorthEastern and West coast area will pay for their stupidity.Stupidity and destruction always go hand in hand.

  • cmarshdtihqcom

    Was there any way the South could have been devastated to the point where there was no KKK or Jim Crow? Could the culture of white supremacy have been broken?

  • spidermean2

    Chops2, God’s church is not a one-man rule unlike false religions which has the Pope and “Supreme Leader”. It’s a collective decision among believers that they purge stupidity like homosexuality in their church.

  • spidermean2

    One should examine what are the religious affiliation of KKK members. They are mostly ATHEISTS like Von Brunn. Atheists are everywhere.

  • ceflynline

    “The SBC is finding out the hard way that in a post-modern world, standards no longer exist. Tell someone they’re headed in the wrong direction and you’re judging them. God forbid!The SBC is discovering Luther’s conundrum. When you begin your existence by denying the authority of Churches or Sects that preceded you, you effectively deny your own authority as well. While the SBC mulls over heresy, schism, apostasy, and other failures of its authority, it might remember that it got where it is today by denying the authority of more main stream Christian Sects. Still, wasn’t it only back in the Reaganite days of yore when the SBC claimed to be the fastest GROWING Christian Church? Lost their magic touch, perhaps?Or their converts came to know them for what they really are!

  • spidermean2

    As I’ve said, it doesn’t matter if I belong to a church with only 10 members but follows the will of God. It’s NOT a numbers game.Those who can’t stand the standards set by the Bible should leave the church or be booted out.Jesus said it Himslef that hell will be a crowded place.

  • edallan

    We should recall that Rick Warren’s mentor, W.A. Criswell the person he called the greatest American preacher of the 20th century, actively condoned the use of violence to keep SBC churches whites-only, following which he served a number of terms as grand wizard of the SBC. I don’t know whether Obama ever asked Rick Warren whether he, too, rejected the legitimacy of Obama’s parents’ marriage.

  • ceflynline

    “Why can’t you liberal humnanists just leave good folk like us alone to practice our faith? Can’t you read the Bible to see that the gay lifestyle is anathema to our Lord? On the other hand, I’m wondering why they ever did away with slavery, since the New Testament accepts it as part of daily life, and even praises the slave’s devotion to his master as a model of the faithful’s devotion to God (1 Timothy 6:1-3 et passim).Hmmm. Maybe the Bible is the product of a primitive society that no longer exists? Just as medical science in Roman Palestine no longer makes much sense today, perhaps slavish devotion to what that time considered sinful no longer makes sense? Maybe were the whole story played out in today’s world, the way this group of Southern Baptists define themselves would be less primitive, less hateful, less useless. Gee, maybe those humanists have something to teach us about love, society and what being a good person demands. Posted by: gratianus”Curius cognomen, there, to post that piece over. Still, an expert in canon law should never mistake Paul’s dislike for certain pagan religious practices for Jesus’ teaching.Most Catholic teaching on sexual sins come from fifteen hundred years of meditation on just a few lines of scripture, added to their experience of what deviations their non Christian neighbors had that disturbed them. While modern biblical jurisprudence considers all sexual sins as of a class, it is possible to read the few lines in Scripture objecting to them as being more against idolatrous practices, including male and female temple prostitution, than mere personal misconduct. But regardless, the SBC arrogates to itself the final authority over its adherents. That it cannot connect that authority to the apostles, or for that matter to anyone within 1400 years of the apostles only means that they have exactly as much authority as their members give them. They certainly have as much authority as they need to disassociate, or excommunicate, as they claim, but only amonc the associated and the communicates. Let them prune buds and shoots and sucker limbs, and saw off major limbs and trunks to their hearts content. It is only themselves that they maim. It is what you may expect when you “Consult and elect” your divinely appointed prohpets. You elect fallible men who procede to make mistakes.You get the SBC. Or whats left of it.

  • InterfaithNation

    Interesting:

  • InterfaithNation

    Part 1 of 2:When Will Non-Straights Stop. There’s Complaints filed by “non-Straights’ in straight Federal & State Courts alledging that the BIBLEs [KJV, NIV et al] are Anti Non-Straight & that the “Straight” perpetrate their own Horrific Acts therein & therefrom against them; as if a Biblio Spell is cast on the SBC members [Straight Christians] etc.. But not on the “Non-Straight” Christians, Jews, Musloms, Hindu’s , Buddhists..??Recently the U.S. S.C sided with the PENTAGON (1-million boy & girl Scouts like, alike) where NO ADVERTISing ones same-sex Sexual Prefrence nor same sex Orientation is allowed [Similarly said but SECULARLY Prescribed]. Note: i used to be a Proud “Boy Scout”, a Member of The “Boyscouts of AMERICA” and Today They still Do not Allow “Non-Straights” , “1/2 Straights” etc.. into their Meeting & Outing Places; They was Suide by the Non-Straights & the BSOA Won. So, SooWhy cannot the Proud SBC or Straight-Pride folk & CO., also uphold their own private Policy for the word NO. NO cannot be made a Yes (pleazza, like Forcing Religion on someone, please queers do not force Ye “Non-Straighness” on Them/They/HE/HER) inhouse & or out??? important: the ‘Non-Straight” Queer groups cannot Legally Stop the SBC & CO., from Recieving I.R.S. ‘not-For Prophet/profit Status’! Why? Because the SBC is Private, not Public. Not Likedonald TRUMP’s Public Miss America Pagaent”??important: For the same reason that ORGANIZED “Non-Straights” of Queer-Gangs/Groups/Tribes/Marches can complain about or rather attempt to wrongly Equate Anti-Straightness with “Racism” or anti Gender? THENThen the “Non-Straights” have no Right to complain when the “STRAiGHTS” say that “Non-Straight” should not/never Force their ‘Sexual Prefrences’ & or their individual ‘Orientations’ in Private (aka Invasion). The Word in ‘Private” must be respected by the Non-Straights as well as the ‘Straights’ includes the word ‘Public’ but involves another type of behaviour. Part 2 of 2

  • InterfaithNation

    continued part 2 of 2:So is the “SBC” or the “Boy Scouts Of America” and their members a ‘private’ entity or a Public Entity??Suggestion: With all the Money & Clout & potential “Tithe-Power” that, collectively the “Non-Straight Groups have (Domestically & Overseas) and so,Build Ye own “QUEER CHURCH (Synogogue, Mosque, Temple..) Of AMERICA”! Or Build Ye own “QUEER BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA” Or Build a “QUEER PAGENT OF AMERICA” etc.. and Be Proud about such an accopmplishment instead of Forcing Ye “Non-Straightness” on “Straights” whom see YE as Repugnant & not seen as Natural Persons…. andhave nerve to Call them “BIGOTS”, “RACIST” “Non-Straight-Bashers” etc..!Hint: If Islamic Pakistani’s Seperated from Hindu India; then why can’t the SBC “Straight Baptist Members” & alikes Seperate from “Non-Straight Baptist Members”??The Christians STOLE (or Copy Cat?) the Abrahamic Religion ; then the Islamics Stole (copy Cat) Abrahamic faith from Both. Now the Mormons stole (copy cat) the Abrahamic Religion from All Three! Nowthe non-Straight folk (w/out a Church?) want it all, want someone elses Church for themselves for Non-Straight & want their Cake & Eat it Too!??? It’s easy for non-Straights to get in the faces of the Straights, but (for “Straights” & for reasons that the Queer folk will never understand, unless their Straight, have a Hard time inviting themselves into the Queer faces. note: SEX is NOT LOVE; LIFE IS!

  • phoenixresearch

    “Two years ago, then-SBC president Frank Page said the declining numbers can be blamed, in part, on a perception that Baptists are “mean-spirited, hurtful and angry people” ——————–Blamed on a PERCEPTION ??? Ah, sorry, it’s the whole actual sorry freaking track record, not a “perception”.Shrink the SBC to the size where it can be strangled in a bathtub (thanks for the idea, Grover Norquist).And you “interfaithnation”, need to wait until the drugs wear off before posting.

  • knjincvc

    I love it!!!!The SBC is imploding!!!!!!Along with the fundamentalist wing of the GOP!Long live corporate and neo-con republicans!!!!Bomb Bomb Bomb, Bomb Bomb IRAN!

  • slmdarien

    Having been on staff at a SBC church in the midst of the Conservative takeover,it is distressing to see the debasement that has occurred to an institution that prided its-self on having no established doctrine and that believed in the fellowship of the believer. The SBC has profoundly fouled its own intitutional nest and the only type who can comfortably live in their own spiritual excrement are those whose belief systems and thought process resemble Damen and Spidermean2. What a shame, it was a wonderful church community.

  • swatkins1

    Gots to love them good old boy southern babptists. Gettin’ all preachy about the gay folks. Mmmmmm….Mmmmm!

  • pgr88

    Who cares? If homosexuality is against their precepts, let them go. If Gay Baptists want their own church, they can found their own.

  • bewestbrook

    Go, go, go. The BSC needs to dump all those churches not sufficiently doctrinal. Get in there and root out the heretics, the unbelievers, the fornicators (well, not Vitter or Ensign). The more they hate and exclude, the fewer and fewer and fewer members they’ll have. Fewer Baptists, at least ones like this, means a better world. It’s not just a perception that Baptists are mean-spirited. It’s a reality. Their actions are speaking–loud and clear.

  • nallcando

    Boy if the Southern Baptist church start kicking out members that they preconceive as sinners, there will be no one allowed in the churches not even the ministers!

  • cmarshdtihqcom

    Appreciated. Could have been worse. It seemed more along the lines of an older boy-younger boy prank in context, because I was a special education student, but nevertheless, it did clearly break the law. It is a shame that Asperger children are often like sheep, easily led, and misled.A similar incident, neighbor kids getting me to take off my clothes, was actually caught and stopped by good old Mom. That is more along the lines of a status offense.Both were on our own property.Maybe the reason I got so much education was because I had a wrongful reputation for mental retardation. Nowadays I have everything but a nice woman. How dare they pass laws in places like California to say “you can’t have it!” I know the marriage odds with Asperger are low (but so are the employment odds and I have a career). I am losing weight to control what I can, I think it draws attention. Nobody who knows how important a relationship is can deny it to anyone else even if it is contrary to a religion. Sadly, it seems my God sees fit to make homosexuals choose between Him and their lovers.

  • Paganplace

    “Sadly, it seems my God sees fit to make homosexuals choose between Him and their lovers.”I wouldn’t bet on that, particularly not on the likes of the SBC’s say-so. They haven’t exactly got a good track record on being right. They haven’t changed their ways from their racist and slaver days, only changed *targets.*

  • Chops2

    Spidey:Why is he so against it if he created it?”Satan” creating it is a cop out and u know it. All things good = god all things bad = satan is rubbish. He is the creator, he bears the responsibility.Ask him, cause I cant seem to get in touch with him. Let me know what he says.And dude seriously:Why do they get hammered by twisters all the time then genius? why did the French quarter survive in Katrina? Maybe god wanted a beer and some hookers like Haggard and the rest of em?May I suggest the reason is that it is absolute unsubstantiated tripe that u peddle rather than anything based on any fact?

  • spidermean2

    Chops2 wrote “Why do they get hammered by twisters all the time then genius?”Maybe to weed out the week among the strong? Or maybe to discourage the liberal wimps not to flock to God’s chosen land.

  • Chops2

    Spidey:”Maybe to weed out the week among the strong? Or maybe to discourage the liberal wimps not to flock to God’s chosen land”.You just make this s*it up eh? Keep it up mate, your a hoot.

  • uh_huhh

    LOL!!!The rest of the world understands your “firm view” on gay people. You think gay people choose to be gay and can be “cured” of their sexual orientations. You view isn’t mysterious, complex, or hard to understand; it’s just ignorant and bigoted.

  • grashnak

    More importantly, why would gay people want to belong the SBC since they obviously aren’t welcome?I’d say they’re better off out of that group of dinosaurs.

  • Alex511

    fr spidermean2:>..Homosexuality is a DISEASE — a perverted mindset. …Not according to the AMA and APA. I prefer their studies over the ones fr “dr” dobdork and his focus CULT. >…I would like to attend a church which has only ten members but with correct doctrine rather…Gee, that’s how phred phelps and his westboro baptist CULT got started…

  • maxim678504

    “The denomination is declining at a rate that could shrink its membership from 16.2 million to 8.7 million by 2050…”And just today WaPo reports a speaker of the SBC calling upon the once segregationist convention to embrace people of color to stave off a declining membership. Way to go, Mr. Mohler and friends. You’ve courted obscurity, and now it shall obtain–in spite of the failure of “end times” to arrive at the pre-ordained time and date.

  • davenue

    Gays are waay nicer than Christians.

  • InTheMiddle

    This is hardly a difficult Biblical issue. Romans 1 clearly identifies homosexual sex as contrary to God’s will for human beings and the result of suppressing the truth about God. Those who criticize the SBC for disassociating with this church don’t have an argument with the SBC but with the Bible itself. It’s a free country. No one forces you to believe the Bible is the Word of God or join a church that believes the Bible.As for the numbers of baptisms, that is terrible way to judge the health of a church. The Bible stresses quality not quantity. It does no good to baptize people who haven’t truly given their lives to God through faith in Jesus Christ.

  • alivo

    Baptists have long been known for congregational polity and for respecting individual conscience. This decision by the SBC flies in the face of those principles. They are trying to impose doctrine and policy on the congregations, which is distinctly un-Baptist. I really don’t care, though, since I would never in a million years embrace a denomination that exists because of its support for slavery and that has stood for racial segregation, second-class status for women, and rejection and vilification of gay people. All of these are totally un-Christian. These SBC folks have the liberty if they want to to march into their own little narrow corner where they can affirm each other’s prejudices. I don’t care.

  • mradams

    Egovangelicals on the move … to what? dark and ignorant exclusivity. Just look around the world at groups (cults) with similar dogmas, and what do you see? Their right to choose (bigotry) is of utmost importance to them. But the flow stops with them. As they continue to erect fences around their fountain of water, that fountain will become brackish and dry up. As well it should.

  • Calabrese99

    I guess it’s their church and they call the shots. Conversely, why would gays want to be a member of a church system that was not gay friendly? Gays have a right to equal treatment. They don’t have a right to demand membership in private organizations. I don’t think that a lot of us would want to join an organization that didn’t want us.

  • maxim678504

    “Forced religion STINKS in the nostrils of God.”-Roger Williams, founder of the American Baptist faithUttered as he was being driven by the lash from Massachusetts Bay Colony by the rigid Puritan hierarchy for refusing to obey and proclaim Puritan religious doctrine. The Southern Baptist Convention has become the Puritan hierarchy that the Baptist faith was founded as a bulwark against. How repugnant to deny that history-a history rooted in independence of thought-to instead calcify and metasticize into a centralized and official religion, reduced by increasingly narrow ideology and selective interpretation. What a tragedy of faith and purpose.

  • onesugar1

    Correct me if I am wrong, God loved a man (King David) that loved another man (Nathan) like a woman, Is this not so?

  • bstanton55

    Why don’t you attempt to address this issue fairly and least mention the difficult position Southern Baptists (or any Christian who really believes) are in? That is, how does a Christian stay true to their faith in a world that is increasing less tolerant of them? There are Christian who really believe that homosexually is wrong. There are Christians that really believe that only men should be pastors. It’s not because of hate or ignorance some Christians believe this. There is a Biblical argument to be made in defense of those positions. So what are those Christians to do in a society that increasing rejects God and the authority of the Bible? Of course, Southern Baptist numbers are shrinking. Do you think this is because the Southern Baptists are changing, or because the culture around them is changing? It’s the culture that’s changing. At the heart of this is the rightness or wrongness of the issue in question (e.g., homosexuality or women in leadership). That’s where the discussion needs to begin. Understand why Southern Baptist hold the positions that they do, and challenge the positions. Rather than, as this post does, assume that Southern Baptist are wrong about the most important relgious issues of our day and mock them for not holding the same values as the non-believing world.

  • middlenmae

    Good morning all. I hope you had a good night. It seems to me like alot of people think that the homosexuals are being judged by christians because of their lifestyle. When the truth of the matter is we are just telling them what the bible says their outcome will be if they don’t change. I know some say it’s a matter of interpretation, but my bible tells me that no scripture is open to private interpretation. So that means thereI’m not saying too hate a homosexual is the will of God, we try to share the truthFor those who think Jesus wants every sort to be in His house to fellowship, why did He himself drive away the thieves that satSo being a christian and living holy, as Jesus also commanded, does cause seperation. As far as the SBC goes, I can truly say I don’t know much about them or how they carry themselves, but they are right for holding up the standard of God in this area.PGR88 said it best…Who cares? If homosexuality is against their precepts, let them go. If Gay Baptists want their own church, they can found their own.God bless (-:

  • EarlC

    As a life-long Southern Baptist, it would seem that a reviewing of Galatians is in order here. Those who are throwing out churches because of this and that need to look at the beam that is in their own eyes. Regarding homosexuality, Southern Baptists need to decide whether it is better for such people to associate with each other in a Christian framework or to be thrown to a pagan world. At least within a Christian framework, the Spirit can continue to minister and bring “correction.” It is obvious that the spirit has yet to break the sin of robbing God of tithes and offerings. Regarding women in ministry, Southern Baptists will lose this argument. In fact, they already have. By any other name, there are too many women who are involved in “preaching” roles in Southern Baptist churches to ignore this situation. Southern Baptists will continue to shrink as a denomination as long as they continue to practice a limited, exclusive dogma rather than to obey Christ teachings.

  • cmarshdtihqcom

    Correct me if I am wrong. Didn’t Dr. Dobson say men are visually guided to women and women not or not very much visually guided to men, guided by finer things like character and intelligence?In Dobson World I’d probably be married by now.Methinks women made from the same clay as men, at least up to a similar age. Heterosexual man wants a woman with a hot body, heterosexual woman likes a man with a hot body, or at least won’t consider a slob.My mom always insisted on leanness across the board and couldn’t accept overweight as anything but disgraceful. She couldn’t admit to that as openly as my best friend’s wife could, but husband close enough to hear: “I put a picture of father in law on the fridge to keep him from becoming fat like him.”The woman born 1972 can be more candid than the woman born 1936.Dobson: life is so simple in Sunday school, isn’t it?

  • jjedif

    The typical anti-Christ behavior of the typical “Christian.” As an unbeliever I almost wish that Hell exists because I could laugh when I see the looks on their faces of all these “Christians” when they that they’re in the same line entering Hell as I am. But since I’m not a “Christian”, I actually don’t wish anyone any evil.

  • burntnorton

    I don’t know, BStanton. How did we address the question fifty or a hundred years ago with regard the poor Southern Baptists who found themselves on the wrong side of history with regard to race and discrimination? After all, there were and are Christians who really believe that mixing of the races/emancipation is wrong. There were and are Christians that really believe that only white people should vote, black people shouldn’t marry or otherwise mix with white people, and/or that the domination of the white race over the black race was Biblically ordained. It isn’t or wasn’t because of hate or ignorance – no, of COURSE not! – that some Christians believe this. There is a Biblical argument to be made in defense of those positions. The SBC has the right to believe whatever it wants and define itself however it wants, just like the Catholic Church or any other religious body. It does not, however, have the right to have its actions and beliefs respected. It does not have the right to empathy for its self-created predicament. Those of us who believe that its positions are stupid, disgusting, ignorant, misogynistic, homophobic, or otherwise objectionable have the right to say so. We also have the right to feel some schadenfreude about the resulting oh-so-sad loss of membership and clout.

  • US-conscience

    The true church of Jesus Christ has never been about clout or numbers or having the general public understand why it does what it does, it always been about honoring God and doing what is pleasing in His sight. I thank God that the SBC is reforming itself and taking hard stances where it involves being Biblical vs being worldly. God is not impressed by public opinion.

  • bigbrother1

    God is not impressed by public opinion.Posted by: US-conscience | June 24, 2009 9:14 AM *******************************************Your god seems more impressed by body counts than anything else. He loves him a good massacre, don’t he? Good riddance to bad rubbish, you and your disgusting god.

  • overed

    spidermean2 wrote: among other tripe)

  • seismic-2

    As the SBC itself will readily proclaim, a fundamental principal of the Baptist denomination is that the local churches and not some hierarchical structure (such as in Catholicism) are what matter. I suspect that as more of those local churches decide that women can be called as Lead Pastors, or maybe even that gays can be accepted as members, then those local churches will choose to become independent of the SBC. I suspect the number of churches identifying themselves simply as “Baptist” rather than as “Southern Baptist” will climb steadily until SBC decides that its litmus tests of orthodoxy are causing the Convention to be out of step with too large a segment of its membership.

  • Farnaz1Mansouri1

    To read sequentially my two postings on the African Methodist Episcopalian Church position on gays, start with the second.

  • lepidopteryx

    I wonder how the SBC knows the detailed contents of one church’s pictorial directory. Do individual churches have to get SBC approval of the proofs before printing a directory?

  • Paganplace

    “(note: Googling “mutual masturbation” will result in over one million hits so it is a commonly used term.)”ccnl1Wow, CCNL, I didn’t know you spammed *that* much. :)

  • ccnl1

    From Wikipedia:”Biology and sexual orientation is research into possible biological influences on the development of human sexual orientation. No simple cause for sexual orientation has been conclusively demonstrated, and there is no scientific consensus as to whether the contributing factors are primarily biological or environmental. Many think both play complex roles.[1][2] The American Academy of Pediatrics and the American Psychological Association have both stated that sexual orientation probably has multiple causes.[3][4] Research has identified several biological factors which may be related to the development of a heterosexual, homosexual or bisexual orientation. These include genes, prenatal hormones, and brain structure. Conclusive proof of a biological cause of sexual orientation would have significant political and cultural implications. [5]“

  • knjincvc

    I say AMEN!newt GingrichAMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!

  • cmarshdtihqcom

    I don’t think my comment made it so let me repeat my kind word.I had the misfortune of “meeting” a child molester at age 8.I had the fortune of knowing several gay and lesbian people in college and sitting in on Lambda meetings in graduate school as a show of political support (gutsy for a Christian).I know the difference OK?????I don’t think you folks on the other side of the issue have met EITHER.

  • chopin224

    I don’t understand. Jesus was rarely seen in the company of women. He was always with men. He and 12 other guys were inseparable. This behavior might provoke some today to wonder about Jesus’ sexuality. Even if Jesus was gay, he was still the greatest person who ever lived and the world would be better off if it followed the teachings of Christ, which it clearly does not, and that includes the SBC

  • InterfaithNation

    ooopps: Dear Phoenixresearch & Co;On the Non-Straight Cyber-Invasion:Jealous “NON-STRAiGHTS” whom are ‘Openly’ or Closetly against the “STRAiGHT” Community, Congregation et al or even Individual; are in fact themselves genuine “B-i_G-O-T_S”, however Ye spell it!Note: Sex is not Love; LIFE Is! Yet, No Sex (between a real Sporade/Lady & a Real Mavorite/Gent) means No LIFE Forms. So the “Non-Straights” can never Contribute to HUMAn Growth, Posterity; only the Reverse; if the “Straights” Allow It to get out of hand! Besides Spreading of AIDs between the Non-Straight (mostly Males) They Fear that a Downward Population Trend caused via Selfish Sexualy-Crazed “Non-Straight” world will make them extinct! It is really a Survival of the Species Question & not of Religion!Note: Not Even Adoptioning or Forster Caring Straight Kids/Babys makes Non-Straights as if be Straights or on Par!Fact: Straight Baby’s, under Care of Non-Straights (who make good money doing so) , can simultaneously ‘Corrupt them’ & make-them Kids not meant to be Not-Straight Non-Straight by Exposure/Enviroment! i.e., You Smoke, Drinkard They then Smoke, Drinkard; Ye Have Same sex Coochy Poochy moments, then they too will most likely have non-Straight same sex Coochy Poochy via exposures too. In LIFE “Innoscense Lost” or found, not Sexual Fantacy, is a Real Breaker or Maker in Human Behaviour; not Both!Note: Drug Addicts, and Non Straights alike; want others to join them! Yea? Nay? So, To knowingly force Ye “non-Straightness” on “Straights” (their Kids, Family (wed or not wed) & Churches) is Bigotry & Selfishness based of Jealousy. Pleazzza; Do not Be in Denial to Self & Loved Ones (Straights & Non-Straights)!

  • papafritz57

    The SBC, like all other religious institutions, is a corporation, period. These are money making groups of men who tell other people how to live their lives and then give up ten percent of your income to them. That is the bottom line, money. This way most of these charlatans never have to get a real job or dirty their own hands. There have been thousands of stories through the years about these scam artists and not toomany months ago, we remember the religious cult somewhere down south, where the preacher lived with all his little girls from his congregation and practiced his fornication on them. Well, he’s now in jail on rape charges and for a long time thank you. Look at the pedophiles in the Catholic church – and we’re supposed to confess our sins to them????? No way Jose. We don’t need to live by a book that was written by men thousands of years ago, when all along we’ve had God’s Commandments. They are the only things we have to follow. And I always wonder why He did not make homosexuality the 11th commandment. Why do you think He let that one go???? Perhaps He didn’t consider it a sin.

  • Paganplace

    CMars: “I had the misfortune of “meeting” a child molester at age 8.”"I had the fortune of knowing several gay and lesbian people in college and sitting in on Lambda meetings in graduate school as a show of political support (gutsy for a Christian). I know the difference OK?????”*offered hugs on that.* Maybe when these people stop trying to call LBGT people ‘child molesters,’ they’ll actually be able to do something about child molesters. For now, children that are hurt are just collateral damage in their ‘culture war.’

  • Paganplace

    Well, hey, Norrie, I guess if they’d stop with the shooting, we could let them fix their rudder. They make the Graf Spey look like a Boston Whaler. :)

  • Paganplace

    (and yes, I’ve watched the History Channel ‘too much.’ :) )

  • Farnaz1Mansouri1

    Corrections to previous post: In the first paragraph, “elasticities” should be “ethnicities.”Quotation on AME begins with “In accordance with its view of Scripture….

  • coloradodog

    Apparently, the small and shallow god of Abraham created homosexuals for his other followers to hate, scapegoat and torment.

  • JUSTACOMMENT

    More likely I’m not the first to say this, but here it goes any way…One of the arguments to prove that god exists is that surveys show that around 90% of the people believe in a god. So, for faithful numbers are important … until somebody tells them that the number of adherents to their denomination, sect or cult is dwindling, in which case numbers are not that important. They simple say that what is important is to follow the word of the real god.But then, the original argument itself doesn’t make sense to me. How can you say that because 90% of the people do not agree which of the thousand and thousand of gods is the real god, that is a proof that god do exist?And this disagreement about the real god is not a disagreement of the minds only; it’s a fierce disagreement with millions if not billions of humans dead trying to convince the others that “my god is the real thing”.

  • ccnl1

    Once again:So we have a Christian God who supposedly created all of us to include homosexuals. Said God is therefore responsible for the defective gene/mind-set that causes homosexuality. One might conclude from this that the Christian God would therefore approve same-sex unions since that is the only sin-free state where any type of couple-sex can be performed.

  • Dieterman

    The “world” may not understand their position on gay people and homosexual “sin” (poor, ever beleaguered, little innocent Christians that they are), but neither apparently did Jesus Christ. He lived in a culture dominated by the Greeks, probably must have spoken Greek as a second language (so most scholars of Christianity now believe) where homosexuality was commonplace and considered both unremarkable and in no way “unnatural”, yet He never mentions the subject, not even tangentially. Pretty darned odd that the all-knowing Son of God Himself should overlook the very “sin” that nowadays so preoccupies and obsesses conservative American Christians – the same Christians who regard themselves as the truest of all Christians. Let’s face it – the bigotry came first and Christianity is being used here to give it moral cover.

  • ChicagoJim

    Broadway Baptist Church in Fort Worth is the church that Van Cliburn, probably a gay man, attends. The organ in this church is named the “Cliburn Organ” after his mother and first piano teacher, Rildia Bee Cliburn. What a total shame that the hateful, ignorant, bigoted, and very un-Christian Southern Baptist Convention would oust a church of such quality exemplifying such reasoned behavior. My grandmother, a baptist, had a red-letter edition of the so-called New Testament of the Bible. In it, the words attributed to Jesus Christ were in red font. Back in the late 70′s, when Anita Bryant was fomenting hatred toward gays, I scanned the red print to see what Jesus had to say about men loving men and women loving women. Well, he said nothing negative whatsoever. The writings attributed to Saul of Tarsus (St. Paul) began the gay-bashing. The term “homosexual” did not even come into existence until the late 1890′s. I grew up in a small town in Georgia where the Southern Baptists reigned supreme. I remember well the fine example of the “sanctity of marriage” that the wiry little pastor of the local church exemplified. His extra-marital affair did not cause his picture to be removed from the church’s directory. How ironic that the religious right uses protection of the “sanctity of marriage” to justify bashing gays by trying to deny them the human right to marry whomever they choose. Given the examples of the Republicans Sanford, Ensign, Gingrich, Craig, etc. etc. ad nauseum, I find this tactic deliciously ironic. I wish the Broadway Baptist Church in Fort Worth all the best in its growth and development toward justice for all human beings. If ever I’m there on a Sunday, I will be at your church, listening to the Cliburn Organ.

  • ChrisBoisvert

    I have worshiped a couple times at Broadway Baptist in Ft Worth. It is a church made up of good people and a congregation that has a broad ministry. It is sad when Christian’s cannot set a positive example for the world by focusing on the many points of faith and mission that are shared, rather than dividing over what is perceived as sinful by some and not so by others.Some in the Baptist family seem to have forgotten that historically Baptist congregations are autonomous and that Baptists are not supposed to have to subscribe to a set creeds. Baptists are supposed to believe in freedom of conscious, soul liberty, individual interpretation of scripture with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. But often today, Baptist bodies of faith have chosen to give up their heritage and follow a hierarchical structure that often vest power in the hands of a few and marginalize and seek to silence the voices that are different.I find the language of “friendly cooperation” to be humorous at best. It is more like forced obedience. The fact is that there are lesbian and gay people in almost all bodies of faith. They are sometimes out, often not. They are in places of leadership and in congregations and in the pews. It is past time churches began to embrace these people of faith, rather than to turn them out onto the streets or to ignore that they are there.It is wrong when Bible has been used by one group or another to marginalize others and empower themselves. The Bible has been used to justify slavery and to silence the voices of women. The literal interpretation of scripture is never truly that. Over the centuries context has been applied and so has our understanding. No one interprets all biblical passages literally. If you find such a person, I would like to meet him or her.Peace,

  • SteveMD2

    Whewn you read about spidermans’s comments and rattling on homosexuality, some of the people actually understand.People obsessed with sex, homo or hetero have a problem. Problems like becoming serial killers of women. problems like driving 3000 gay kids to suicide each year in the name of the fu..ing bible.And why are these people so obsessed with homosexuality – 9 times out of ten, you can bet that they are gay themselves, and in denial.Only Satan of these satanistic churches could create the closet, where people rail against their own self hatred, helping to perpetrate it further into society. Hatred of themselves they pick up from their church, and don’t have the guts to tell the church to go f… itself.It is absolutely about time that freedom to hate speech against gay people be ended. Those who do it cause mass murder in the name of the so called God.And while they scream about religious freedom to hate – that is exactly what it is, hate – lets think about how the world might have been different if Germany and Austria had and had enforced hate speech laws in the past. Hitler and a few of his nuts would have gone to jail for a long time.And the world would have been spared 50 millin deaths and the holocaust.And if the hatred against blacks, really just another form of the right wings blessed capitalism – slavery and segregation, had been outlawed 200 years ago, maybe we wouldn’t have had the civil war. And so many of the Obama haters, whose big problem is really that their worsst nightmare has come true – a black man has become president.if only Sherman, in his march to the sea, instead of burning atlanta had burned every southern white church, and hanged their slaving pastors, we’d be rid of the abortion in the name of God called the southern Baptists.

  • mlx10dp

    My friends, Sodom and Gomorrah were not destroyed because of homosexuality. “So the Lord said, The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so blatant that I must go down and see if they are as wicked as the outcry suggests. If not, I want to know.” (Genesis 18:20-21) The actual sins of the populace are NEVER mentioned. Then in the rest of this chapter Abraham, knowing his nephew lived there, attempts to bargain with God for the sake of Lot. “I will not destroy it for the sake of the ten,” says the Lord.

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