Christian Car Tag Controversy Heats Up

At a church meeting that included South Carolina’s lieutenant governor and attorney general, Rev. Arnold Hiette had stern words of … Continued

At a church meeting that included South Carolina’s lieutenant governor and attorney general, Rev. Arnold Hiette had stern words of warning for those involved in a lawsuit seeking to stop production of a state license plate with a Christian message.

“Red-faced and angry, shaking his fist alongside his Bible,” reported the Spartanburg Herald-Journal, “Hiette told the congregation that the four complainants — especially the Unitarian — and one judge who took away the people’s right to witness via their vehicle tags ‘along with the ACLU, they’re going to burn in hell.’”

And we’ll know they are Christians by their love and their license plates.

Last month, a federal judge ruled that South Carolina must stop making a specialty plate that features the image of a cross and the words “I Believe.” Atty. Gen. Henry McMaster is urging the state’s Department of Motor Vehicles to appeal the ruling.

The case was brought by Americans United for Separation of Church and State on behalf of several South Carolina clergy members, including a Unitarian. The AU’s lawsuit claimed the new plate violates the Constitution.

“I wish our legislators would read the Constitution as avidly as they read public opinion polls,” Rev. Dr. Neal Jones, the Unitarian minister, wrote last fall in a column for the Herald-Journal.

McMaster and Lt. Gov. Andre Bauer both are considered potential gubernatorial candidates in 2010.

At Tuesday’s prayer meeting/protest, Bauer — who introduced the legislation to make “I Believe” plates — called on Christians to fight for their right to profess their faith on government-manufactured metal plates. “I don’t understand why witnessing in public is considered unconstitutional. You don’t even have to be a Christian to believe everyone deserves the freedom of speech,” he said.

Obviously he’s right. He doesn’t understand. Perhaps one of the hell-bound plaintiffs can explain: “If people want to proclaim their faith on their cars, there are a number of bumper stickers and emblems that can do the job,” Rev. Thomas A. Summers, a retired United Methodist minister, wrote this week in a commentary for Religion News Service.

“Just don’t expect the government of South Carolina — or any government, for that matter — to help you spread the message. It’s not the government’s job, and none of us should want it to be.”

If Bauer and McMaster want to preach, maybe they should go into the bumper sticker business.

About

  • Athena4

    I guess that Yahweh has an inferiority complex. Because all of his followers have to say how great that He and his kid are all of the time. If you want to proclaim your faith to the whole world, buy a $2 bumper sticker.

  • Farnaz2

    “I don’t understand why witnessing in public is considered unconstitutional. You don’t even have to be a Christian to believe everyone deserves the freedom of speech,” he said.Obviously he’s right. He doesn’t understand.”

  • Arminius

    South Carolina does offer a plate that states “In Reason We Trust”. You have to be a member of the Secular Humanist organization to get one.

  • CCNL

    What’s the big deal??- many states have specialty license plates with a large number of selections some of which might offend someone. These include plates with the word God on them. Google it and then get on with your life!!!

  • rcubedkc

    More stupidity from the people that gave us george bush.

  • dragondancer1814

    I agree…if you want to proclaim your faith to everybody around you, there are plenty of stores and websites that sell bumper stickers with just about any religious message you can think of! One doesn’t need a license plate that says the same thing, and the bumper stickers are considerably less expensive!Makes me wonder what would happen if a Pagan/Wiccan group wanted to have a license plate that shows a pentacle and the words “I Believe” on it. Freedom of religion means ANY religion, and if you give one religious group a specialty plate, then you should give that same opportunity to all of them! Fair’s fair!

  • AxelDC

    I wonder how eager the govt of South Carolina would be to issue plates decorated in a crescent moon, stating “There is no god but Allah, and t Muhammad is his messenger”.If they are not willing to do that, then they are violating the 1st Amendment of the US Constitution which states “no law respecting an establishment of religion”.What part of Separation of Church and State do they not understand???

  • EnemyOfTheState

    No problem. If believers want to proclaim their faith on a plate, just make them pay a little more to cover what it costs the state to produce them.That way, the state can still do Jesus’s work – apparently a high priority – and there would still be an arm’s-length relationship with the clergy.Problem solved! Thanks, no applause.

  • practica1

    States could cease issuing these vanity plates altogether. They are for registration, not promotion of some brand. What next – Coca-Cola and Disney plates? The State isn’t required to assist anyone in making a statement, and usually shouldn’t.

  • PJTramdack

    Obviously, people can believe in any myth, superstition or fairy story they like. If the point is that the government of South Carolina is favoring one fable, Stone Age myth or magic over others, there will be a problem. If they will allow every nutty belief to have their own license plate, then the matter falls into the realm of law enforcement, basically: do they want their plates crapped up with all the messages– fine? If some are favored, and others excluded, the I say go after the state and make the state spend a bundle in legal fees demonstrating what morons they are.

  • coloradodog

    I’m all in favor of neochristians identifying themselves with special plates. Then we can know when we are near the intolerant, racist, homophobic likes of the hateful Rev. Arnold Hiette.

  • coloradodog

    Would South Carolina make a plate for me that says:”Jesus Protect Me From Your Followers”?

  • spidermean2

    Im sure if a person wants to have an “EVOLUTION statement” written on his plate like the face of Darwin, they will approve it.For more than 100 years, he still have to prove that his grandparents were monkeys but as it turns out, it’s his grandchildren who are turning into monkeys.What does it mean? A future Big Bang is coming into this world? What evolutionists think as the past is actually the future?

  • FactChecker1

    Ugh – South Carolina. A state where you still see roadside stands and stores selling confederate paraphenalia. Somebody needs to tell these folks that the Civil War is over and they lost! That means they need to abide by Federal law. Would that these God and Jesus promoters spend as much energy and time on something that would actually make a difference in this world. They are religious jihadists, no different than the fanatics of other beliefs that they no doubt deplore.

  • CalSailor

    I agree with the poster who suggested that vanity plates be ended completely. The purpose of a license plate is to identify the vehicle, in order to assist law enforcement, in case of theft or accident. The multiplication of vanity plates, combined with the increasing mobility of vehicles across state lines has made this much more difficult for law enforcement officers. Lets go back to one set of plates for each state, and make sure that each state has one (and only one) distinctive color/number combination for each state. I’ve had vanity plates for 20+ years, but I’d be willing to give them up in order to make this happen. When I got back to California after decades away, I was amazed…appalled at how many different plates are available in the various states I’ve traveled through.That would also solve the issue of state-supported religious vanity plates as well. If SC is going to issue Christian plates, then they ought to offer plates to ANY religious group that meet a minimum number of requests? Will they do that? (And then there are plates issued by states to Christians which are offensive to Jews, for example, but using the name of the covenant G-d in the Torah. The Christians involved often don’t even understand it is offense, but why is this acceptable, either?)Pr Chris

  • chris15

    Yes, CCNL, many states have specialty license plates. But those plates are sponsored by private groups. Just like South Carolina’s other plates. But the I Believe plate is sponsored by the legislature. And while other SC plates cost $70, the state is selling I Believe plates at cost. If that is not the state sponsoring religion, what is?

  • SeaTigr

    Freestinker,It doesn’t mean the government of Virginia endorses Parrotheads – it just means enough people signed a petition and submitted advance payment for the plates.Here is the official Virginia DMV instructions on how to get the DMV to issue a new plate design:Nowhere in the instructions does it say that approval of the plate design by the Governor and General Assembly represents official endorsement of the institution, interest group, or organization by the government of Virginia.Virginia is a state that, until recently, has reliably voted Republican – and the legislature is still controlled by Republicans. If license plates represent official government endorsement, why does Virginia have an AFL-CIO license plate? After all, Republicans and unions don’t exactly get along…Virginia also has a license plate for bowlers (it has a bowling ball and pin on it), does this mean bowling is the official sport of the Commonwealth of Virginia? There are numerous plates for fraternities and sororities, does this mean the government of Virginia officially endorses those organizations? Is Virginia officially endorsing Harley Davidson motorcycles w/ the HD owner’s plate?As long as government will allow ALL religions who meet the requirements to have a license plate created to actually create a license plate, this doesn’t represent any violation of the separation of church and state, IMO.

  • Paganplace

    ” csintala79 “If South Carolina to produce only license plates with a Christian message, it would uncontrovertibly be violating establishment and free exercise clauses. However, if it would produce license plates for anyone wanting to express the fundamental creed of their religion, it might be OK. “Again, as I said just below, it’s not appropriate for departments of Motor Vehicles to be in the business of proclaiming religions. Christians can freely go a couple of inches to one side of their license plates and put up whatever advertisement for the special status they believe they deserve as much as they like. Religious minorities making such displays run the risk of exposing ourselves to *negative* treatment over such things, from law enforcement, or any clerk at the DMV or insurance agency that believes we deserve a hard time for whatever reason. This is a clear case of where the government ought to be strictly neutral about such a thing.

  • bevjims1

    Seatigr wrote: “Virginia also has a license plate for bowlers (it has a bowling ball and pin on it), does this mean bowling is the official sport of the Commonwealth of Virginia?”Well, first of all there is no provision in the Constitution about promoting bowling, but I think what you are missing here is that, like VA, SC has vanity plates which groups can request. The plates must have a certain number of people who are willing to buy them and the group usually submits their design (motto, emblem, etc) to the state for approval.This is not what happened in SC with the “I Believe” plate. The state legislature can create new designs for plates (remember the “Virginia is for lovers” motto on plates in VA? Or in MD, the Chesapeake Bay and Rural farmland plates are examples). In SC the state legislature voted to have this “I believe” plate as a state sponsored plate. No group requested it. The plate was also designed by the state. So the SC “I believe” plate is along the lines of the MD Chesapeake Bay” plate, not some plate for an obscure group that requested it.In other words, the SC plate was created via a law, a law which clearly is unconstitutional since the state cannot promote religion, which this plate certainly does. Now if the SC legislature had also made plates for the other religions they might have a case to say they were not promoting a single religion, but even there it is unconstitutional since the Constitution says the state may not promote religion, period.Seatigr wrote: “As long as government will allow ALL religions who meet the requirements to have a license plate created to actually create a license plate, this doesn’t represent any violation of the separation of church and state, IMO.”If a church had requested the plate through the normal vanity plate request mechanism, sent in a motto and design, the state of SC would be on a firmer legal footing. But that is not what happened and that is what is important here. This plate was not requested by citizens, it was imposed on the citizens unconstitutionally.

  • Freestinker

    “It doesn’t mean the government of Virginia endorses Parrotheads – it just means enough people signed a petition and submitted advance payment for the plates.”SeaTigr,Sure it does. Whenever the government prints something on an offical document or other government owned property, that constitutes an implicit endorsement. The Constitution does not prohibit Government from endorsing bands (Jimmy Buffet) or unions (AFL-CIO). The Constitution only prohibits government from endorsing religion.————————————————”As long as government will allow ALL religions who meet the requirements to have a license plate …”SeaTigr,The Constitution prohibits government from endorsing religion. As soon as government starts printing religious opinions (of any sort) on it’s official documents, it violates the Constitution. Why can’t people just put a bumper sticker on their car if they wish to express a personal religious opinion? Why must the government get involved at all?

  • ThishowIseeit

    Here in New York State, bumber stickers on cars are illegal, it could distract the driver of the following car. Also messages on the car lisence plate could be distracting. But I have two questions for Rev. Hiette: prove to me that there is hell and why a grown person like you are holding on those irrational beliefs unless you are preaching just for money.

  • bevjims1

    Freestinker asked: “Why can’t people just put a bumper sticker on their car if they wish to express a personal religious opinion? Why must the government get involved at all?”Well, if you look at the history of how this unfolded in SC it seems obvious to me why the government got involved. This began when political campaigns for the 2008 elections were starting so it seems obvious to me that it was a direct appeal for the christian vote. We need to remember that if the courts rule this unconstitutional, those in government who brought this about will receive no punishment, not even a lecture on the Constitution. I wouldn’t be surprised if they knew what they were doing would be ruled unconstitutional, but the law didn’t have to last forever. It just had to last until November 5th. After that I really doubt these legislators care except when christians are watching.So no matter how the ruling went, the legislators won. When was the last time you saw a politician pass up a win-win scenario to get votes with no punishment?

  • freund3

    Seeing that we are all equal under the eyes of the law, can the devoted satanist get a plate that says, “satan loves when you get angry”, or the like to tweek the Christians?

  • bevjims1

    freund3 wrote: “Seeing that we are all equal under the eyes of the law, can the devoted satanist get a plate that says, “satan loves when you get angry”, or the like to tweek the Christians?”That would be endorsing a religion. Plus I think a vanity plate request can be denied for various reasons but mainly anything that would offend. Actually, the following is part of the SC DMV policy statement (RG-504) and indicates the law creating the “I believe” plate goes against the policy since the plate can be ‘construed as using taxpayer-generated funding to create messages or impressions that are not appropriate for a governmental entity’:”This policy applies to non-profit organization plates that meet the requirements under this policy as well as specialty plates requested by any other organization or for any other purpose authorized by law. Requested plates may have imprinted on the plate the emblem, a seal, or other symbol of applicable organizations that the Department considers appropriate. It is the intent of the Department to ensure that all designs submitted for consideration are not offensive and meet community standards of propriety. Designs displayed on state license

  • Garak

    Two cars drive in South Carolina, each going 11 mph over the speed limit. One has an “I believe” tag. The other has an “Allah-u Akhbar” tag.Who gets ticketed?

  • Wsedms

    I think South Carolina should pass a law than anyone who purchases said auto plates should be barred from driving on the Sabbath. They should also be made to wear yellow crosses on all outer garments. Purchasers of said licenses should be required to pay 10% of their gross income to the official state sponsored secular religion. I think it is called God’s Only Party or the GOP. Failure to do so will lead to garnishment of paychecks.I really want to know just how far the religious wingnuts will go to profess their faith. I mean, are they really faithful or not? I think this might be one reason why some folks want to keep religion separate from the government. Maybe we should be free to profess our faith on our own and without any support or compulsion from our government entities?These crazy religious wingnuts will take my cold hard cash out of my pockets and give it to Elmer Gantry over my dead cold body. For that I will definitely go to war with these wingnuts.

  • Garak

    “‘Red-faced and angry, shaking his fist alongside his Bible,’ reported the Spartanburg Herald-Journal, ‘Hiette told the congregation that the four complainants — especially the Unitarian — and one judge who took away the people’s right to witness via their vehicle tags ‘along with the ACLU, they’re going to burn in hell.’”"Our own little Taliban! Mullah Redneck. Time to lynch some Catholics.

  • Racje

    Freestinker says “The Constitution prohibits government from endorsing religion.” Actually the Constitution says the government can’t establish a religion, which is quite a different thing. However, putting religious slogans on license plates seems inane; the purpose of license plates is to identify the vehicle, not to express the personality or beliefs of the owner.Standardize the plates: number, annual renewal sticker, and state color for easier ID. Use a bumper sticker if they want free expression on their vehicles.Financepirate has the best idea: “Here’s a tip: if you want to show people you’re a Christian, there’s no need for bumper stickers or license plates or fish or crucifices or any of that. All you have to do is act like Jesus.”Amen.

  • Chops2

    Its a license plate, who cares.

  • spidermean2

    “they’re going to burn in hell.”How would guys feel if this is true? You know what? IT IS TRUE. I don’t wish them to burn in hell, but the sad fact is, they could burn in hell for their unbelief.The Bible has prophesied that in the end times, Israel would be at the center of contention. Wake up fellows coz Doomsday is very near.The Bible is true 100%.

  • jamesmoylan

    [People who LEAVE THEIR CAPS LOCK ON will burn in hell forever]As for a licence plate? Lighten up guys! Who cares what you profess on your number plate, bumper, or tee shirt. Go for it. The more the merrier.How about some plates that have tags like:My other car is also driven by a monkey!Land rights for disabled gay veterans!100% HUBRIS powered.GOD i’m thirsty.State Sponsored Idiot.DANGER – Wired Load!Taliban on Board!Honk if you’re Rich & HornyWhen Clinton Lied Nobody Died.Party like its 1932!;-]

  • financepirate

    Because everyone knows the best way to show how Christian you are is to let your lord’s name be splashed in the salty slush and mud from the road. I guess it’s not a surprise coming from the religion whose symbol represents the instrument of torture and execution that was used on the religion’s founder. What kind of sick, twisted religion do these people follow?Here’s a tip: if you want to show people you’re a Christian, there’s no need for bumper stickers or license plates or fish or crucifices or any of that. All you have to do is act like Jesus.

  • jaylin4dc

    chevrolet 2:15 – “thou shall propogandize down route 66″

  • bevjims1

    Racje wrote: “Freestinker says “The Constitution prohibits government from endorsing religion.” Actually the Constitution says the government can’t establish a religion, which is quite a different thing.”Establish: (verb):to enact, appoint, or ordain for permanence, as a law; fix unalterably.This license plate was create from a legislative act. What more do you need?Racje wrote: “However, putting religious slogans on license plates seems inane; the purpose of license plates is to identify the vehicle, not to express the personality or beliefs of the owner.”But there are other inane things on license plates. There are two types, state mandated and requested by a group. The I believe plate was state mandated, which puts it squarely in violation of the establishment clause.Racje wrote: “Use a bumper sticker if they want free expression on their vehicles.”Yup, that’s a good idea unless you want religion inside government against the Constitution. Why are some Christians against the Constitution? Do they hate moms and apple pie too?Racje wrote: “Financepirate has the best idea: “Here’s a tip: if you want to show people you’re a Christian, there’s no need for bumper stickers or license plates or fish or crucifices or any of that. All you have to do is act like Jesus.” Amen.”Amen indeed. None of those fish figures either. I like the response from the non-christians, the fish with legs and Darwin’s name. If you’re going to put your religion into other people’s faces as though it were the absolute truth, be prepared to learn your religion is not the only one on earth. But more than that, learn that America is a secular nation by its Constitution and by being so has resulted in the most religious people on the planet and the most free to be religious. Why would anyone want to screw that up?

  • Orsalia

    spidermean2 wrote: Dear spidermean: Yaaaaaaaawn. Is it Doomsday AGAIN? We’ve heard this so often, with so many different “signs” it has become nothing but boring background chatter. Your preaching does not commend you OR your faith, sir. Treating your fellow man with the kind of love and tolerence that Jesus both preached AND lived, and rendering unto Ceaser that which is Ceaser’s instead of trying to appropriate it, would garner you and your ilk much more respect than your fire, brimstone, and hatred ever will. EVER.(and by the way, spending a little more time on your grasp of English grammar might make your posts more compelling too. I’m just saying…)

  • Paganplace

    The big problem with this, even if other faiths are allowed their own plates is this: Christians of the stripe who advertise can expect special treatment from the intolerant sorts who …see that as a government endorsement of such treatment, even in the faceless bureaucracies that can see who has those plates without even meeting them, while those of other faiths can expect to be singled out for potentially-negative treatment by any given member of the majority faith. That’s the difference between a vanity plate and a bumpersticker. Bumper stickers aren’t on the computers.

  • cletus1

    They allow all sorts of specialty plates. I see no reason why this one should be singled out, as long as other faiths (or non-faiths) are allowed the same rights. I don’t believe in any gods, but I dislike the atheist “movements” allegedly representing me. What kind of idiots call themselves “Brights”?

  • csintala79

    If South Carolina to produce only license plates with a Christian message, it would uncontrovertibly be violating establishment and free exercise clauses. However, if it would produce license plates for anyone wanting to express the fundamental creed of their religion, it might be OK. For example, perhaps Jews could request a license plate stating, “Jesus was not the Messiah,” Unitarians and Muslims could request, “I respect Christ as a great teacher, but I don’t believe he was God,” or Buddhists could request a plate reading, “You will continually be reborn until you figure out that the material world is an illusion only causing suffering, at which time the cycle of death and re-birth will be ended for you,” which would require a big plate or small print. Given the multitude of religions, wouldn’t it be more sensible for the state to stay out of this issue entirely? The Christian Right keeps stating that the founding fathers established this country as a Christian nation. If that be true, why didn’t they clearly state that fact, many times? Why were the statements they made about religion so few and ambiguous, i.e., non-sectarian? They were learned men, and they were certainly aware of the existence of other religions, at least Judaism and Islam and probably Buddhism and Hinduism. Did they lack such vision that they couldn’t conceive of other peoples adhering other religions coming to the country? Considering this, if they had foresight one would think they would have clearly stated that the nation was to be founded on Christian principles, with the caveat that there would be no establishment of one of its sects over the others by the government. However, the clause states that “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” Given that they knew there were more religions than Christianity and its various sects, one has to conclude that the use of “religion” is inclusive, i.e., the government is not to establish one religion, to include Christianity or one of its sects, over another. Only producing license plates proclaiming the Christian message would violate this stricture. If this be not true, then we have overestimated the founding fathers wisdom and perspicacity.

  • spidermean2

    Orsalia,The wait will be over soon. Im an engineer and oftentimes, engineers are very precise in their work. But you know what? I really hope Im not precise this time. I hope Im wrong in my computations. Here’s my post from another blog. Slowly the prophecy are being fulfilled.kevin1231 wrote ” It behooves not only all Arab countries develop military, economic and political to challenge Israel hegimony but all international community must do the same.”It will happen to pave the way for Doomsday. It’s in the prophecy and the prophecy tells that the enemies of Israel will be Doomed. “And this shall be the plague (catastrophe) wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall CONSUME AWAY (dissolved) while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.” (Zechariah 14:12)The world who will side against Israel will be doomed. That’s the prophecy and it will happen. Be careful guys of what you’re thinking.The Bible already knew your end

  • ScottChallenger

    Instead of gov’t issued license plates, how about getting the words “I BELIEVE” tatooed on their foreheads in bright red, white and blue colors. No one could miss them then.Then they can feel secure while wrapped up in the colors of the USA while pronouncing their faith in a way that no one except the blind could miss. And for the blind, I hear Rev. Farwell is inventing a new “I BELIEVE” cologne and After Shave so you everyone can smell your belief. Put in on heavy – armageddeon is just a blink away, right Spidey? I can smell you from here.

  • SeaTigr

    Honestly, I couldn’t care less – and I’m all for the separation of church and state. I don’t see license plates as an endorsement by the state. I live in Virginia and I have a Parrothead license plate. Does that mean the government of Virginia endorses Jimmy Buffett? A man whose song titles includes “Why don’t we get drunk and screw?” and whose song lyrics contain numerous references to getting drunk (indeed, being so drunk he got a tatoo and didn’t remember getting it once he was sober) and smoking – and smuggling – marijuana?No, it doesn’t mean the government of Virginia endorses Jimmy Buffett. It just means there are people in Virginia (myself included) who enjoy his music and wish to communicate that enjoyment to others.I have to say, however, if the state of South Carolina wishes to open the door to religious license plates, then they had better be prepared for a Jewish license plate – and an Islamic license plate – and possibly a Wiccan license plate. How about a Flying Spaghetti Monster license plate? That would be awesome…Personally, I think South Carolina should offer a license plate with the phrase “We never surrendered…” on it.

  • spidermean2

    During WW2, there were only two atomic bombs and those two bombs were used. Now we have thousands of NUKES and EACH of these are a thousand times more powerful than those two WW2 atomic bombs. We also have thousands of bio-chemical weapons.There’s a very high probability that all those bombs will be used in WW3.”And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.” (Matthew 24:22)Wake up fellows. Now is not the time to sleep.

  • luv2bikva

    I could probably guarantee that if they put on the license plate a Star of David, or a crescent moon, or a rainbow flag, or some symbol that is not a cross with the words “I Believe”, that car would be vandalized on sight. This is another myopic group trying to push its agenda through a government agency.

  • Orsalia

    Dear Spidermean (and the name truly does say it all), No worries! Your calculations, predictions, signs and “evidence” are most assuredly wrong, as they have been for every other “prophet” in the history of mankind. We’ve been here before, and we will be here many, many more times again, long after you and I are mere dust. I see you are well-versed in the doom, but what have you done lately to live the love that Jesus taught? Hmmmm…

  • bevjims1

    spidermean2 wrote: “I don’t wish them to burn in hell, but the sad fact is, they could burn in hell for their unbelief.”What makes you think opposing a state-sponsored christian license plate makes one an unbeliever? I would suspect most people working for the AU are believers. spidermean2 wrote: “The Bible has prophesied that in the end times, Israel would be at the center of contention. Wake up fellows coz Doomsday is very near.”Oh yes spidey, we’re all awake thanks to you. But if you think the world will go to nuclear war over Israel/Palistine when today no one, not even Iran, wants to get involved, you are making a stretch.spidermean2 wrote: “The Bible is true 100%.”Then explain how the kangaroos hopped from the ark to Australia. You keep avoiding this little annoyance from the bible. Why? Not to mention Christ himself saying doomsday would happen within the generation of the apostles. It seems you cannot read because the text is pretty clear on this. Maybe the bible is only 100% true in the way you interpret it. Well, its 100% true in the way I interpret it, as a series of moral tales, tall tales, and metaphors.spidermean2 wrote: “Im sure if a person wants to have an “EVOLUTION statement” written on his plate like the face of Darwin, they will approve it.”That is not the state sponsoring a religion. Read the SC Constitution, and the federal Constitution while you are at it to see why it differs from the state sponsoring a religious statement on a state license plate.spidermean2 wrote: “For more than 100 years, he still have to prove that his grandparents were monkeys but as it turns out, it’s his grandchildren who are turning into monkeys.”The proof has been done, from much evidence corroborated by many scientists and sources. One has to wonder what it takes for you to admit you are wrong.spidermean2 wrote: “What does it mean? A future Big Bang is coming into this world? What evolutionists think as the past is actually the future?”Oh the Big Bang, a scientifically studied phenomenon, is something you accept as true but evolution, a scientifically studied phenomenon, is not accepted by you. Why not just admit you apply a biblical litmus test to everything and are happy to ignore reality so you can live in your bubble of biblical fantasy.

  • dedeeboru

    There is a way around that.

  • dedeeboru

    …or you could derail the whole religion part of it by making the little image that shows on the left be a UFO….

  • spidermean2

    chasemonster wrote “Who let these bible-wackos out in the first place.”They were actually the first settlers of this great country and built it so idiots like you can have freedom of religion or of no religion. Now name me a place where atheists rule and have that kind of freedom at the same time.Bevjims, the reason why I don’t believe in evolution is because it defies logic. It counters this very simple scientific fact :Intelligence can produce (dumb and smart) objects but NO dumb object/s can produce intelligence.In other words, if we try to rewind creation and and look for the beginning of things, we would end up finding INTELLIGENCE as the MAIN SOURCE of creation.Atheist should stop dreaming. The statement above cannot be debunked. So please, pity yourselves and learn to raise the white flag. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.Evolution’s mantra is partly correct when it says that the law of the jungle is “elimination of the unfit” or in other words, ELIMINATION OF THE IDOTS. That is where Doomsday comes in — to eliminate the idiots.So the best way to escape Doomsday is just to be SANE and NOT insane.

  • bevjims1

    scuba_steve wrote: “1) Many state DMVs derive additional revenue from the fees associated with “specialty” license plates. These plates often indicate an individual’s association with an organization. Examples include veterans’ groups, university alumni, environmental groups, the NRA…as well as hundreds of others.”True enough.scuba_steve wrote: “2) By offering the plates, a state is not advocating (or proselytizing) each group’s charter or agenda. The local DMV is just making them available so that the individual who purchases the plate can demonstrate THEIR affiliation with the organization.”Yes and no. No if the government created the plate on its own. Yes if the plate was requested through the normal method of a group requesting a plate. That typically means a petition for the plate with signatures of a certain number of people who will purchase the plate. And the state can even take some of the cost of the plate, which can be inflated, and give it back it the organization, so for example, a vanity plate may cost $24 but a Purple Heart group plate may cost $50 with the $26 difference going to Purple Heart. Nothing wrong with this and this should not exclude religious groups and in the case of SC it does not as evidenced by the SC group license plate “Choose Life”. I think the groups must only be non-profit to get a plate.scuba_steve wrote: “3) The state SHOULD be neutral on religion…meaning that it should not advocate a specific religious position…or grant that position an unfair association with the state. That said, it should be neutral…and not penalize them for being a religious organization. If the Sierra Club and the NRA can have specialty plates, why cannot a Christian group? IMHO, they are being unfairly singled out. They should get their plates.”I agree, but that is not how the “I believe” plate came to be. It was done within government, be legislators, who voted for the plate. No group requested it. It was done completely within government including the cross logo. No other religious plates were legislated. This is a blatant establishment of religion on government property, which a tag is, by government.scuba_steve wrote: “4) If an atheist organization wants to commission a specialty plate that states “I do NOT believe”, then they should get them as well…providing that they agree to the state’s conditions…which often includes a commitment to buy at least a some minimum number of plates.”Right, but the legislature is who came up with this plate. No group. No commissioning of the plate by a church or other group. Government created the plate to the exclusion of other religions. This is why the judge ruled against it. If a group had commissioned the plate through normal means and the legislature had not been involved, I don’t think there would be a problem.Government cannot do what it likes, nor can it do what the majority might like but not allowed by the Constitution. We are a constitutional government, not a dictatorship where the government can do what it pleases. It must abide by the Constitution. In this case the legislature did not, and so the courts, as is their duty, ruled this unconstitutional.

  • dolph924

    This is weak. I don’t see the point of trying to shut others up in their expression, whether political or religious. If I want a plate that says godsux, I should be able to have it. But, I can’t have it if others can’t have IBelieve. This is yet another law suit w/o a point by my fellow aatheists. Hey guys, get a life and leave the god squad the hell alone!

  • spidermean2

    Orsalia wrote ” No worries! Your calculations, predictions, signs and “evidence” are most assuredly wrong, as they have been for every other “prophet” in the history of mankind. “Like which Biblical prophecy? How can you say that a prophecy is wrong when you don’t know what are the prophecies in the Bible. It took me a lot of time to interpret the prophecies and understand them. You’re so ignorant of the prophecies that you have no idea that the Bible really talks about the big powers in Europe, China, America, etc. which, if you have a simple mind, won’t be able to see them.Wake up fellows. Knock your head a thousand times before you say the Bible is wrong. Actually, it’s not the Bible that is wrong or defective. It’s your brain.

  • JohninMpls

    Equally disturbing is the fact that the SC legislature actually spent time writing, arguing, and approving this bill that arguably does nothing for its constituency other than provide yet another means for a portion of that group to witness.

  • glynnjp1

    Folks, we all know that these two bozos are promoting this plate because they think it will get them votes in the gubernatorial election. And they are probably right.

  • MHinNC

    Well, I think these plates would be OK, PROVIDED that Pastafarians can get a license plate with a picture of the Flying Spaghetti Monster too. I trust that His Noodley Goodness will inspire someone in South Carolina to petition that the legislation be amended to include this – as well as to allow for emblems of all other faiths, of course. Freedom of religion? Of course! Establishment of ONE religion? No. And of course, the purchase/registration fee for the plate should completely cover its incremental cost over that of a standard plate.

  • bevjims1

    MHinNC wrote: “Well, I think these plates would be OK, PROVIDED that Pastafarians can get a license plate with a picture of the Flying Spaghetti Monster too. I trust that His Noodley Goodness will inspire someone in South Carolina to petition that the legislation be amended to include this – as well as to allow for emblems of all other faiths, of course. Freedom of religion? Of course! Establishment of ONE religion? No.”It is not the government’s job to establish one or all religions. Government cannot establish religion, one or many. The instant the government gets involved this way freedom of religion begins to erode. For some reason this is very hard for many in this nation to understand, until the Muslim religion is considered being promoted by government. Then all of a sudden the Constitution becomes relevant and people remember their civics lessons.

  • MHinNC

    bevjims1, of course I agree with you and I wasn’t saying anything different. Just making my point with a joke. The people behind this tag thing want to promote one religion above all others, which is “establishment” of religion (government promoting ANY religion is establishment – if they promoted both Christianity and Judaism it would still be establishment) and that’s obviously unconstitutional. Make them do the same equally for all faiths and they’ll drop the proposal like a hot potato. Or a hot meatball?

  • Hawaiianstyle

    I am a believer. I believe in the Christian ethic. However, I wonder if these folks that are saying, “We Christians have a right to free speech,” would defend someone that wanted a license plate that said, “Satan Uber Alles?”

  • khote14

    the parasite is always looking for new vectors to maintain infection rates. Establishing a connection with the government is a tried and true method for infesting the peasants.Think about it, why are the christians so desparate to get the government involved in spreading the disease? Are the churches beginning to fail, are the people refusing to believe through normal vectors?

  • hammerorange

    I think this issue goes beyond what you have on your license plate. I believe that there is a campaign out there to remove any trace of God in our country. First it was the ten commandments, then prayer in school, now they are trying to forbid the President elect from having prayer and being traditionally sworn in at the inauguration. The way that they are doing this is brillant. Make people “feel” that they are racist, bigots, or just plain intolerant of others. When the real intolerance is the liberals who want an anything goes society. Sorry, but if you would read your Bible you would know that God created us to be spiritual beings and we are to acknowledge him in everything we do. This country was founded on Biblical beliefs and teachings….if you don’t believe then you can be tolerant of others who do. The last I checked majority rules and if you are the minority then it is you who has to find tolerance. Remove God from license plate, then you might as well take his name off of currency. I will never understand what is so offensive of seeing the name of Jesus on a license plate? What is it in you that feels so angry about that? I truly feel nothing but pity for those who do not know God….you have no idea what you are missing out on.

  • quarkdoll

    @hammerorange I truly feel nothing but pity for those who live under a government of which they can’t comprehend the laws…

  • Carstonio

    “Separation of church and state is a good thing…but there are times when people incorrectly infer the wrong meaning from that principle…and instead end up discriminating against religious groups.”I agree in principle. Often shutting out the religious groups is simply the lazy way out, because it takes work to treat all religious groups equally. But there are a few cases when it’s almost impossible to provide that equal treatment. In those cases, a blanket shutting out of the religious groups is better than favoring some religious groups at the expense of others, because the blanket policy still treats all religious groups equally. The issue is not the treatment of religious groups versus secular groups, the issue is the treatment among different religious groups.

  • bevjims1

    hammerorange wrote: “First it was the ten commandments, then prayer in school, now they are trying to forbid the President elect from having prayer and being traditionally sworn in at the inauguration. The way that they are doing this is brillant. Make people “feel” that they are racist, bigots, or just plain intolerant of others. When the real intolerance is the liberals who want an anything goes society.”An “anything goes” society would have anything on a license plate from any source. But it is not the “liberals” who legislated religion onto a license plate. Would you feel the same if instead the plate said “Allah Akbar”? hammerorange wrote: “Sorry, but if you would read your Bible you would know that God created us to be spiritual beings and we are to acknowledge him in everything we do.”And if you read you Constitution you would see that government cannot establish religion. Have you wondered why the courts seem to keep ruling against government laws that establish religion? It ain’t “liberal judges”. Its constitutional law and the intent of our founding fathers. hammerorange wrote: “This country was founded on Biblical beliefs and teachings….if you don’t believe then you can be tolerant of others who do.”From traveling this nation a lot I see more churches as I see Starbucks. Just where is this intolerance you speak of?hammerorange wrote: “The last I checked majority rules and if you are the minority then it is you who has to find tolerance.”Wow. Just… wow. Are you an American? Because you are talking like an Iranian, where their constitution states that the state and Islam is more important than the citizen and that citizens have no rights. In America the Constitution gives us not only rights, but it protects those rights against a majority. This is why some laws, passed through majority referendums, are struck down by the courts. Majority does not rule absolutely, and tolerance is not what protects our rights. It is the Constitution.hammerorange wrote: “Remove God from license plate, then you might as well take his name off of currency.”A good idea since His name on our currency also establishes God as this nation’s religious diety, something the government is not allowed to do in order to protect religious freedom.hammerorange wrote: “I will never understand what is so offensive of seeing the name of Jesus on a license plate?”Nothing is offensive about that. I see Jesus on many a bumper sticker. I don’t hear people asking they be removed. Its not that Jesus is on the plate, its who put it there. The government cannot do that. If you think they can then you think like an Iranian where Islam is the state religion. America has no state religion and to keep religion free government MUST stay out if it, completely. Our Constitution is secular to maintain freedom of religion. If you cannot understand that then you do not understand America.hammerorange wrote: “What is it in you that feels so angry about that? I truly feel nothing but pity for those who do not know God….you have no idea what you are missing out on.”Thanks for your pity. But I wonder if you would feel that same if the plate praised Allah and you found out your government paid for it with your tax dollars against the Constitutions protection against government establishing religion. If you would find that problematic then now you have a little reason to understand why some find the SC plate problematic. You speak of tolerance, but only from the minority. How unAmerican.

  • djmolter

    I’m with the guy who said, OK, have your “I Believe” plate. But keep your mouth shut if someone wants a “Satan Rules” plate. What’s the big deal with promoting your religion, anyway? I doubt seriously that, were Christ alive and doing his thing in this day and age, he’d be driving a Prius with a “Son of God” vanity plate.

  • bugmenotplease

    bevjims1:Thank you. You’ve done a wonderful job of communicating SC’s perversion of the constitution. I regret that the students are so dense.

  • jprfrog

    Why do some people feel so strongly that they most constantly proclaim their faith? Is it because their belief is actually a little shaky? Do they have private doubts? They seem to see Satan everywhere…don’t they trust that their all-powerful God is really that powerful? Or must they appoint themselves God’s police and threaten all the rest of us with hell? Sounds like a case of group hysteria to me. And why does anyone waste a second addressing spiderman, who is clearly unhinged?

  • Paganplace

    Fundie Christians wanting to scratch each others’ backs even on computer. Let’s be realistic, here. Go on record with the DMV as a minority religion, and anyone in the system that’s taught you don’t deserve Christian privilege, can mess up your life with a keystroke. Even if others could do it, it’s not equality. It’s marking territory by Fundies. They can put all the stickers they want on their cars. In the South, Pagans have to watch it.

  • Paganplace

    I mean, let’s face facts here. *Aggressive* Christans can put a cross on something and expect *less-aggressive Christians to back off.* But among your own… Backs get scratched.

  • spidermean2

    bugmenotplease wrote “Spidermean2, I’ve read here that you are a writer for LandoverBaptist.org”LandoverBaptist.org I think are a bunch of atheists. If you think the website sucks, that’s understandable because atheists are dumb.Bevjims wrote “Tell me spidey, why do you have an appendix? What was intelligent about giving us that?”And you expect me to believe that you are capable of understanding the Bible? You people are just SO DUMB.

  • spidermean2

    The human body is composed of thousands if not millions of body parts which are clearly intelligently designed. Just because you can’t see the intelligence behind a certain part doesn’t mean it is dumb. Most certainly, the person who says that is 100% CERTIFIED an idiot.No person today (dumb or idiot scientist) know exactly how DNA works so why would a person assume that he should know what’s the use of every single human body part?Evolutionists behave that way coz they are 100% CERTIFIED idiots.

  • iiandyiiii

    Once again, Spidermean2, your way to “debate” is to insult your opponents and call them stupid. Do you honestly expect that anyone will change their mind to agree with you because you call them an idiot (or as you did below, an “IDOT”)? Sit back, and imagine that I’m calling you a close-minded, fundamentalist, irrational fool, and see if that makes you more inclined to listen to my opinions, or more inclined to dismiss them.

  • Garak

    jamesmoylan wrote:”[People who LEAVE THEIR CAPS LOCK ON will burn in hell forever]“Abso-frakkin’-lutely!

  • coloradodog

    Isn’t that nice. Spidermean2 took all that time to interpret the Bible for us so he can call those he disagrees with stupid and idiots. By his fruits we shall know him.

  • Paganplace

    You’re no one to talk about any ‘Intelligent design’ to the universe, Spidey. if ‘Intelligence’ designed the universe to appear as it does, only so you could imagine God will freak out and nuke San Fransisco, well, in your world I suppose you might imagine intelligence, but I’d say ‘No good intelligence.’ Have a little faith, son. If your God created me just to mess with your vanity and sensibilities, it seems I’m somehow doing a good job of it. You turning into a bastard about it is entirely on you.

  • coloradodog

    This is just like my pothead friend who had a “Say No to Drugs” sticker on his car to curry favor with the police not to suspect him while he drove down the road smoking a joint.Neochristians are using the same type message in hopes intolerant white evangelical cops will give them a break.

  • US-conscience

    My neighbor has a license plate that says IMA QT and I never once thought that the gov. was enorsing her claim to be a cutie, nor do I think that my other neighbors license plate that reads GO SNOW is an indication that the gov. supports skiing. If everyone else in the country can put what ever they want on their plate ( as long as it doesnt have a cuss word in it ) why are we trying to discriminate against those of faith ? I think that is just intollerant.

  • TRACIETHEDOLPHIN

    spiderman2 wrote–Wake up fellows. Knock your head a thousand times before you say the Bible is wrong. Actually, it’s not the Bible that is wrong or defective. It’s your brain.Prove to us that the bible is right. Present some evidence that what is in the bible is right without using what is written in the bible as proof.

  • journeyer58

    Hello, Greetings from the planet Xenon! I am a journeyer from another planet and seem to have hit on an extremely divisive and disturbing argument regarding the Creator/Spaghetti Monster.

  • spidermean2

    Pagan wrote “only so you could imagine God will freak out and nuke San Fransisco,”God won’t nuke SF but some idiots will. It means they could be countries which worship stupidity like atheism, evolution, or false religions like Islamic extremism. If not for true Christians, not a single flesh would remain alive.Evolutionists know that the law of nature is “elimination of the unfit” or weeding out the unfit. What they don’t know is stupidity is part of being unfit. What they don’t realize is they will be weeded out of this world. Nature is hard to go against with. It will just do its work unceasingly, slowly but surely.Doomsday is coming. That’s not only biblical, it’s also the call of nature.

  • spidermean2

    When I call people idiots, they should re-examine their thinking. They should be thankful that somebody is weighing their thoughts and is correcting them free of charge. They should also take heed coz when the time comes that the Lord Himself calls a person idiot, the punishement would be unbearable.See it in that light.

  • forgetthis

    I don’t see the need to have license plates be evangelical instruments, neither do I see it as effectual. However, I also do not see it as a threat to any other citizen or civil liberties or the integrity of the Constitution. Both sides are engaging in a pointless argument. Let’s debate how to feed the world’s starving populations.

  • spidermean2

    God created us with freewill. But along with that freewill are consequences. It’s actually the world who is molding its future. And the near future is not so bright, which is understandable knowing that stupid people never do anything right.

  • iiandyiiii

    Spidermean2-By that childish, absurd logic, then you should thank me when I call you an arrogant buffoon. There’s some “free of charge” thought correction for you. Now do you see things my way? You see, I’m “debating” with your style. If you don’t feel convinced that I’m right about you, then you’re just feeling exactly how people do when they read your posts. There are plenty of good arguments in support of Christianity and the Bible. You provide NONE of them. I’m thankful most Christians have broader and more thoughtful minds than you, and for the ones that reach out with love and respect and actually turn hearts and minds towards God. All you do is turn hearts and minds away from Christians, and you live up to the worst stereotypes.

  • Paganplace

    “Doomsday is coming. That’s not only biblical, it’s also the call of nature.”No, it’s not. Monotheist religion expertly screws with people’s heads to jangle instincts that say ‘destroy yourself,’ …then appeals to vanity to say, ‘The whole world must end with me, cause my soul is this big one time prize.’None of this is true, Spidey. The world makes more sense than that. And also doesn’t need to. There is no one you can hurt to ‘save your soul.’ The world is not ending. The world is, however, in for some serious contraction if we don’t start taking things in hand instead of believing in ultimate vanity that ‘God’ wants us to run out of places to crap and choke on it.

  • spidermean2

    “Present some evidence that what is in the bible is right without using what is written in the bible as proof. “The Bible stated that the true Christian part of America will inherit and rule this world for many years to come. It will be defeated in the first phase of WW3 but will ultimately win the war. Now lets see if that happens.The Bible also stated and described who are the future enemies of America. It has named them but I cannot reveal them.There are many more and Im just overwhelmed by its accuracies.

  • spidermean2

    Pagan, you’re not an expert in truth. I KNOW and can SEE the future which the bible described. Just list down ALL the prophecies that I mentioned. You’ll be amaze how I could have predicted them so accurately.Just wait and see.

  • bevjims1

    forgetthis wrote: “I don’t see the need to have license plates be evangelical instruments, neither do I see it as effectual. However, I also do not see it as a threat to any other citizen or civil liberties or the integrity of the Constitution. Both sides are engaging in a pointless argument. Let’s debate how to feed the world’s starving populations.”If the license plate said “God is Dead!” and you found out it was created through legislation by lawmakers and the plate was designed by atheist government workers at taxpayer expense, would it bother you? If it does, why doesn’t it bother you when the message is a Christian message? The Constitution does not allow government to establish religion in any way.The Constitution’s establishment clause has a reason for existing. Letting lawmakers who are looking for votes use your tax dollars to make Christians think they are on their religious side is not a good idea. They violated the Constitution. If a stand is not made, it will happen again and again.

  • spidermean2

    iiandyiiii, it’s not wrong to call people idiots if they think and act like one.This world is full of idiots and it’s high time that they should be unmasked.They are a danger to society and they are the main reason why Doomsday is coming.

  • spidermean2

    Catholicism is NOT Christianity. For centuries they kept the Bible (the light) away from ordinary people.

  • legendarypunk

    The license plate itself doesn’t bother me – the fact that they want the goverment to endorse it does.Would these same Christians be willing to support a government created plate that read, “Praise Allah,” or a deity from any other religion? How about one that says, “There is no God,” for us non-believers?Somehow I doubt it.

  • bevjims1

    spidermean2 spouted: “The Bible stated that the true Christian part of America will inherit and rule this world for many years to come. It will be defeated in the first phase of WW3 but will ultimately win the war.”Please provide the source of this nonsense.spidermean2 spouted: “The Bible also stated and described who are the future enemies of America. It has named them but I cannot reveal them.”Of course you can’t.spidermean2 spouted: “There are many more and Im just overwhelmed by its accuracies.”How about how kangaroos got off the ark after the flood and hopped to Australia? Or the kiwi, a flightless bird, walked from the ark to New Zealand? Accuracies? Hahahahahahahahahahaha…Are the bible’s descriptions of the stars accurate? It refers to them as being in the “firmament”, a crystal globe on which the stars sat. The bible refers to the stars falling to earth when Christ returns. Is that possible considering the smallest stars are more than one million times the size of earth? Christ himself said all the prophesies would happen during the generation of the apostles. That ended 1900 years ago. Was Christ wrong? And the one I got slapped in the face by a nun for asking: Who was Cain’s wife? It could only have been his mother according to the bible.If you feel the bible is accurate it shows some self delusion going on. If however you see the bible as a set of moral tales, some based on reality, others not, others borrowed from other religions as the flood has been shown to be, then you can ignore their accuracy and learn from the lessons, like respecting other people, loving your neighbor, forgiving others of transgressions, and understanding that the bible is not the only source of such lessons. Personally, I get as much out of Aesop’s Fables as I do the bible without all the hellfire and fear mongering, which Rev. Arnold Hiette sternly used to try to save, of all things, a license plate. Can anyone explain why upholding this great nation’s Constitution and preventing “I believe” from being on a license plate will condemn one to hell? I’m sure your delusional mind can come up with something spidey.

  • spidermean2

    bevjims wrote “How about how kangaroos got off the ark after the flood and hopped to Australia?”Are you sure that is written in the Bible? Or is it just your idiocy?

  • garethharris

    I want a tag that says:

  • bevjims1

    spidermean2 wrote: “iiandyiiii, it’s not wrong to call people idiots if they think and act like one.”Lets see what the bible has to say about that:Leviticus 19:18Exodus 23:5Zechariah 8:17spidermean2 wrote: “This world is full of idiots and it’s high time that they should be unmasked. They are a danger to society and they are the main reason why Doomsday is coming.”As someone who claims to know the bible I think your words would shock anyone who really knows the bible.

  • spidermean2

    bevjims wrote “Please provide the source of this nonsense”It’s there. The only requirement is to use your brain. Hint : The book is riddled with passwords and it’s impossible for idiots to crack it open.

  • iiandyiiii

    Spidermean2,I agree the world is full of idiots. You definitely have exposed one idiot to the readers of these comments.

  • spidermean2

    “but love your neighbor as yourself”I want people to call me idiot if I think or act like one. “Wise people love correction”, the Bible said.

  • bevjims1

    bevjims wrote: “How about how kangaroos got off the ark after the flood and hopped to Australia?” spidermean2 responded: “Are you sure that is written in the Bible? Or is it just your idiocy?”Nope, its written in the bible that the flood destroyed all land dwelling life, all land was covered with water, which would include Australia, and the only animals, even the smallest of creepy crawly things, was saved by being on the ark. When the ark landed these pairs of animals repopulated the earth. That means the kangaroos had to have hopped from the ark to Australia and the kiwis walked to New Zealand. Unless YOUR bible says something different?

  • spidermean2

    iiandyiiii, idiots don’t learn. That makes you one.

  • bevjims1

    spidermean2 blathered: “It’s there. The only requirement is to use your brain. Hint : The book is riddled with passwords and it’s impossible for idiots to crack it open.”So you can’t name the source. Thought so.

  • Carstonio

    “If SC is going to issue Christian plates, then they ought to offer plates to ANY religious group that meet a minimum number of requests?”That’s the real issue. For government to remain neutral among religions requires, motorists should be able to obtain a vanity plate for any religion. Or else no religion-themed vanity plates should be offered at all.

  • spidermean2

    bebjims wrote “When the ark landed these pairs of animals repopulated the earth. That means the kangaroos had to have hopped from the ark to Australia “That is only your idea. New species may have populated this earth even after the flood. How they sprouted, nobody knows. But evolutionists claim to know. That what makes them idiotic.

  • spidermean2

    “So you can’t name the source.”I can but you can’t. An intelligent book must be approached with intelligence and not with stupidity.

  • bevjims1

    Carstonio wrote: “That’s the real issue. For government to remain neutral among religions requires, motorists should be able to obtain a vanity plate for any religion. Or else no religion-themed vanity plates should be offered at all.”But what happened in SC was that no group requested the license plate. It was created through legislation. Lawmakers took it upon themselves to make this plate even though no group requested it through the usual means. The “I believe” plate is akin to the MD Chesapeake plate. Both were created through law. The SC plate however violates the establishment clause.

  • iiandyiiii

    Spidermean2-So despite the fact that I have learned much from the Bible, I’m an idiot simply because you say it. Wow. You really have no self-awareness, do you? Are you at all interested in spreading the Gospel? Do you have any interest in saving souls? It seems like you consider anyone who disagrees with you lost and already condemned to hell. Do you believe in forgiveness and God’s Grace? I don’t think you’re truly a Christian.

  • twmatthews

    Oh great seer spidey. While taking my dog for a walk tonight she dumped on the right side of the path. There were three distinct turds aligned as almost a triangle which means a right handed triangle.For those of us schooled in turd reading, this obviously means that Barack Obama will face many challenges during his first 3 years (3 turds) in office and he will be challenged by forces from the right (the right side of the path).Those of us who have learned to read dog turds through intense study and ancestral training, feel sorry for you that are TI (turd ignorant). You might place your faith and hopes in reading 2000+ year old myths but turd readers know the true signs of prophesy.Herein I’ve provided as much support for my prophesies as spidey does for his. The only difference is that where my dog craps in the woods and covers it up, you spidey generate pure crap from your brain, or trace elements of a brain, and post it to this site.

  • bevjims1

    spidermean2 wrote: “I can but you can’t. An intelligent book must be approached with intelligence and not with stupidity.”Oh please please please spidey! All I’m asking for is the biblical references. Even a palm reader points out the lines in your hand when making claims of seeing things that are not there. But you not only claim to see things in the bible, you won’t provide the source in the bible for these things. How do you ever expect to be taken seriously if you can’t even cite the source of your ideas? Oh yea, calling people idiots and scaring them about doomsday. That puts you in the company of medicine men and soothsayers.

  • spidermean2

    iiandyiiii, idiot is not a bad word. FOOL is a harsher word but the Bible makes use of it so often.”The FOOL hath said in his heart, There is no God” (Psalms 53:1)Please stop the non-sense. I want some more thought provoking discussion.

  • Carstonio

    Bevjims1, as far as the Establishment Clause is concerned, it matters little whether the plate is created through legislation or through citizen request. The real distinction with the legistlation is the hostility that so many elected officials have to the principle of government neutrality on religion.

  • aquamean2

    and twmatthews :you wouldn’t be so proud of yourself if your dog turds had fortold your own foolish! But that’s the thing about FOOLS-fish they never understnad themseselfvses for the FOOLS-fish they are to be.

  • iiandyiiii

    Spidermean2-I think it should be to turn hearts and minds towards God. But it seems like you claim to know God’s Will… I prefer humility. I don’t claim such knowledge- I actually believe that sometimes God’s Will and his Creation are too complex for a mortal mind such as ours to comprehend. How about that for thought-provoking discussion? Calling people idiots is not exactly thought-provoking.

  • Arminius

    Twmatthews and Aquamean2,Thanks for the outrageous humor – it’s always good to laugh. Spidey isn’t a bad guy at heart, I think, but boy are his religious views seriously weird. And as for his ‘good intentions’, well, we all know what road is paved with those. Spidey needs to lighten up and debate, not preach.

  • Paganplace

    And, the righteous Christian plas ‘drunker-than-thou.’Clever disguise, really.What do you want to do now, mighty guy?

  • spidermean2

    Bebjims wrote “Oh please please please spidey! All I’m asking for is the biblical references.”Actually I’ve tried that already and stated my references. But still the idiots didn’t get it. What’s the use? Pigs can’t see the value of pearls. Intelligent Design is visible everywhere I look at nature. How come idiots can’t sse it? When the time comes that you’d be converted to ID science, maybe I’ll tell you the references.c ya later

  • arty2

    Everything Christians do is to get into heaven. It invariably involves pointing out other people’s sins and, acting as God’s security subcontractors, punishing them for whatever the sin du jour. The last time Jehovah did anything for himself was Passover when he wiped out all the first born Egyptians to prove he was top god. 99.999% of those people had never heard of Jehovah. Who’s fault was that? An intelligent designer would have left no doubt – if it mattered.

  • Paganplace

    And, actually, Arminius, no. Spdey is *not* a good guy at heart. His heart… is elsewhere. Like I said. Not the good guys.. anymore. Not so easy, anyway. He’s said repeatedly how he wishes the ill. Goodness is something he’s gonna have to look for.

  • spidermean2

    arty2, all those Egyptian first born babies went to heaven. Was it cruel?

  • bevjims1

    Carstonio wrote: “Bevjims1, as far as the Establishment Clause is concerned, it matters little whether the plate is created through legislation or through citizen request. The real distinction with the legistlation is the hostility that so many elected officials have to the principle of government neutrality on religion.”I agree about the hostility on government neutrality, but, there is a world of difference between a group sponsoring the plate and the plate being created through law. For example, other religiously inspired plates already are available in SC which were sponsored by groups and say the following:”Choose Life” (Citizens for Life/AKA Choose Life S.C. Plate)I think the last two show what many have been saying about making an “anti-plate”. Again, the brohaha is about that fact that no group sponsored the plate but it was made through legislation against the establishment clause of the Constitution. We either defend the Constitution or we do not. These legislators did not defend the Constitution and went out of their way to attack it. IMHO it was to get votes, making this an even sadder issue.

  • aquamean2

    Paganplace said:And, actually, Arminius, no. Spdey is *not* a good guy at heart. His heart… is elsewhere.Like I said. Not the good guys.. anymore.”— Haha, knave! I have DOVE in front of your insult and blocked it from hitting the prophet Spdier! You’re FOOLishNESS has returned apon you two fold but then that is all a FOOL can ever hope to know.

  • twmatthews

    Ah aquamean2, you foretell much with your slimy fish tales. As for me, I am a simple turd reader and have not yet achieved the level of interpretation used by “leg lifters”. Such is my cross to bear that I and dung beetles, share a common fate, wedded to crap.

  • bevjims1

    spidermean2 pontificated: “Actually I’ve tried that already and stated my references. But still the idiots didn’t get it.”I haven’t seen them from you or anyone else. If you got some lets see them.spidermean2 pontificated: “What’s the use? Pigs can’t see the value of pearls.”Or pigs see gold when it is just fools gold.spidermean2 pontificated: “Intelligent Design is visible everywhere I look at nature. How come idiots can’t sse it?”Because the science favors evolution overwhelmingly. Tell me spidey, why do you have an appendix? What was intelligent about giving us that?spidermean2 pontificated: “When the time comes that you’d be converted to ID science, maybe I’ll tell you the references.”So you won’t tell us the references. I’m calling you out spidey, you have none.spidermean2 pontificated: “c ya later”I expected you to run away.

  • aquamean2

    To showcase what a FOOL like PAgan is:Pagan would have you think you KNOW that 1 + 1 = 2but as the Bible states and I SEE and KNOW, that if i fold the page on the screen just so, I SEE and KNNOW 11 = 2 and such is not TRUETH.IDIOTS and FOOLS.

  • spidermean2

    Nature’s law is elimination of the unfit(idiots).Deal with that and not with me.Soon it will knock on your door and there will be no escape.Just remember these phrase: “the nukes are coming!!”

  • Carstonio

    “For example, other religiously inspired plates already are available in SC which were sponsored by groups…”My hypothetical alternative is a Motor Vehicles bureaucrat deciding to grant plates only for one religion, denying all requests from groups from other religions. But I wouldn’t be surprised if the SC legislators at least considered doing that as part of the “I Believe” legislation.

  • aquamean2

    and the FLOODS too!

  • twmatthews

    Spidey said: Nature’s law is elimination of the unfit(idiots).Sounds an awful lot like natural selection Spidey boy. Have you rethought your position on evolution or does that word (thought, not evolution) scare you?

  • usapdx

    OUR AMERICAN GOVERMENT IS OF THE PEOPLE,FOR THE PEOPLE, AND OF THE PEOPLE. ANY RELIGION MUST STAY OUT OF OUR GOVERMENT. THE PEOPLE ARE FOR GOD ON A RULE YET ANY RELIGION OF ANY TYPE MUST STAY OUT OF OUR GOVERMENT BY ALL MEANS. FOR THE BOOKS OF THE BIBLE, MOST DO NOT KNOW WHEN, WHERE,OR WHO WROTE THEM AND WHO CHOOSE THEM AND WHEN, WHERE, AND WHY IT WAS TRANSLATDED. THEY SHOULD KNOW THIS AND A LOT OF THEIR VIEWS MAY CHANGE. KNOW HISTORY AND ALWAYS ASK QUESTIONS BUT KEEP ALL RELEGIONS OUT OF OUR GOVERMENT OF ANY MEANS DOWN TO A LICENSE PLATE. AMEN.

  • spidermean2

    Evolution’s mantra is “survival of the fittest and elimination of the unfit”It’s NOT survival of the fittest but IT IS elimination of the unfit (idiots).

  • aquamean2

    Spidey, it gets hard to bail you out when you mention “Nature’s law” while a guy who reads dog turds is online. You’re giving him clarivoyance! Abort! Abort! I meant to say ‘Carry to term and give up for adoption! Carry to term and give up for adoption!’

  • spidermean2

    What evolution don’t know is that ALL animals are fit. Only humans has the ability to become unfit or idiots.Elimination of the unfit only pertains to humans.

  • spidermean2

    What evolution don’t know is that ALL animals are fit. Only humans has the ability to become unfit or idiots.Elimination of the unfit only pertains to humans.Ironically, among humans, evolutionists are the Wow. Aint that something? Evolutionists don’t realize that they are making a fool of themselves.

  • Paganplace

    I’m guessing, here, Spidey, that you figure you were just *created* a fool and don’t have to work at it? :)

  • Carstonio

    “If the Sierra Club and the NRA can have specialty plates, why cannot a Christian group?”I see no problem as long as the state doesn’t turn away non-Christian groups.

  • scuba_steve

    “I see no problem as long as the state doesn’t turn away non-Christian groups.”EXACTLY…and that was also my point in item number 4.Separation of church and state is a good thing…but there are times when people incorrectly infer the wrong meaning from that principle…and instead end up discriminating against religious groups.I have read of at least several examples where a local school district allowed various organizations to rent classrooms in the evening for some purpose (AA meeting, adult education, etc), but then denied a religious group the same ability to rent similar space. That is not separation of church and state IMHO. That is discrimination. Rent them the space…and then rent the classroom next door to the atheists…or wickens…or Druids. Whatever.

  • bugmenotplease

    Spidermean2, I’ve read here that you are a writer for LandoverBaptist.org. I see much writting there that sounds like you but I’m not sure what pseudonum you use. Please advise.

  • Reader21

    How come nobody ever quotes the next line of the Third Ammendment? “…or prohibiting the free exercise thereof”. It seems a lot people go out of their way to help the government “prohibit”…

  • chasemonster

    Who let these bible-wackos out in the first place.

  • Paganplace

    “How come nobody ever quotes the next line of the Third Ammendment? “…or prohibiting the free exercise thereof”. It seems a lot people go out of their way to help the government “prohibit”…”Cause it doesn’t *apply* in cases like this? Having the government advertise for a certain religion isn’t ‘free exercise.’ It falls under the other half of the two things the government isn’t supposed to do as regards religion. Not supposed to do either, get it?

  • edallan

    I’m going to repeat what so many others have said. This license plate was put forth by law, which certainly indicates quite explicitly that the government of South Carolina endorses Christianity. And the fact that after spending taxpayer money to defend the establishment of religion, several top officials, including the attorney-general, want to spend more taxpayer money to appeal the ruling makes it all the more clear that in their view, Christianity is the state-sponsored religion of choice and that they feel that the Christian “message” should be carried forth by the government wherever the car travels.If these creeps feel that strongly about their faith, they can print bumper stickers. They can certainly put more on a bumper sticker, and it would also be cheaper than license plates. Perhaps they could start with, “Rend unto Caesar”? Or any of Jesus’s comments about putting one’s ostensible religious orthodoxy on display?

  • twmatthews

    I think Spidey you’re misreading scripture and seemingly unaware of science. Any claim of the literal truth of the bible is nonsense and stands in stark contrast to science and reason.You sound a lot like George Bush. He believes because he declares something (“The United States doesn’t torture.”) one way that it must be that way despite evidence to the contrary.You declare evolutionists idiots while spewing nonsense for which no evidence is provided. You might as well describe your faith in the tooth fairy because both are equally supportable by your lack of evidence.Declaring someone an idiot while failing to back up those statements is again, like Bush declaring Iraq an imminent threat while providing no supporting evidence.You both belong together in the same altered reality and can comfort yourselves with the understanding that only you two have knowledge of the world. I’d be surprised if you didn’t hear little voices, like George did when he claimed God told him to invade Iraq. Do you hear voices Spidey?I’d be very surprised to find out you were really an engineer. I’m a software engineer and own a software company. No engineer I know has such a casual relationship with facts.

  • iiandyiiii

    Question for Spidermean2- My grandfather died a couple of years ago. He was Jewish. And he was a good man- a doctor, he served in World War II, and he provided for his family. Is he burning in hell?

  • jweider007

    What can we expect? This is South Carolina!

  • twmatthews

    Spidey said: “What evolution don’t know is that ALL animals are fit. Only humans has the ability to become unfit or idiots.Elimination of the unfit only pertains to humans.”First, I’m assuming you mean evolutionists in your first sentence. Second, how do you explain that over the history of the earth more than 95% of all the species that ever existed are now extinct? From an evoluationary perspective that means they were “unfit” with respect to environmental conditions.Maybe you question the geological record. Maybe you don’t believe that hundreds of thousands of species existed that are now extinct. Maybe God placed bones and fossils in rocks and strata that just mimics what would happen over a 4 billion time period. Maybe the earth is really only 6,000 years old and Noah was completely occupied collecting all 34,000 species of beetles.

  • spidermean2

    iiandyiiii, thanks for asking but I think only God can answer that I can only guess. There are kinds of sins that can send you to hell. If he had committed those sins and had not asked for forgiveness then he would be going to hell. There are also other factors like what is his perception of Christ.People live two lives. The one that we see and the other which we don’t see like if he/she is alone where nobody is looking. I also would like to know what is his definition of goodness. Does it reflect to the definition laid out by Jesus Christ? Does he watch lewd pictures? Was he a supporter of Darwin’s evolution?

  • spidermean2

    twmatthews, ALL animals are fit. If a specie becomes extinct, it is just because of circumstances out of their control. The flood killed all the dinosaurs. Their circumstance is that they can’t be fitted inside Noah’s ark. The equally large whales survived because they can swim. After the flood, new species continue to emerge. How they sprouted, nobody knows. Evolutionists claim to know and that what makes them idiotic.

  • DrFill

    Blasphemer Spidey: “The flood killed all the dinosaurs. Their circumstance is that they can’t be fitted inside Noah’s ark” – Gen 7:8 Of clean beasts, and of beasts that [are] not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth”

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