Whose Religious Extremists?

Lyndon Johnson once said of FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover: “It’s probably better to have him inside the tent p–ing … Continued

Lyndon Johnson once said of FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover: “It’s probably better to have him inside the tent p–ing out than outside the tent p—ing in.” In the dangerous arena of Washington politics, Johnson thought he needed a hatchet man. Who better than Hoover?

That’s pretty much how the Pakistani government viewed the Taliban, and how the Israeli government viewed even its most militant settlers. In the dangerous arenas of South Asia and the Middle East, Pakistan and Israel each thought they needed a hatchet man. The logic was simple: “They may be extremists, but they’re our extremists.”

Recent events show that it’s not so easy to, shall we say, control the direction that extremists point their business once you’ve let them into the tent. Turns out they may well focus it inward, even at the folks who created and nurtured them.

The truck bomber who killed 53 people at the Marriott Hotel in Islamabad, a favorite meeting spot of government officials and business people, was very likely part of the Taliban or a related group. Over a decade ago, Benazir Bhutto’s government in Pakistan started supporting the Taliban in an effort to exert Pakistani influence across the region. As the New York Times recently wrote, “Now they (the Pakistani government) are finding their home-schooled militants too strong to control.”

Israel is facing a strikingly similar set of circumstances with its most militant settlers. As the New York Times reports, “elements of Israel’s settler movement are resorting to extremist tactics to protect their homes in the occupied West Bank against not only Palestinians, but also Jews who some settlers argue are betraying them.” An Israeli professor well known for being critical of the settlements was recently wounded in a bomb attack. The prime suspects are the extremist wing of the settler movement. Those same groups recently distributed fliers offering a $300,000 award for anyone who murders a member of the progressive Israeli advocacy organization Peace Now. Even the Israeli army has been threatened and attacked by extremist settlers – battling everything from stones to acid when they followed the government order to remove settlements from the Gaza strip.

Let me cut some of you off before you even begin to write your comments: I am not comparing Israel and Pakistan, or the militant settlers and the terrorist Taliban. I don’t play the ‘who is the better extremist’ game. If you implored me to see your side – “Can’t you just understand why our extremists do what they do?!!!” – I might suggest that you went wrong at the “we”.

Whether you are Muslim or Jewish, Israeli or Pakistani – these are not your people. I don’t care if they speak the same language as you, use the same prayer book, call the same land home.

Extremists who bomb hotels or professors do not deserve the honor of being included in the tent of any religion or nationality.

There is no such thing as your extremists or my extremists, Jewish extremists or Muslim extremists. There are only extremists. The militant settlers and the terrorist Taliban – and anybody else willing to murder or maim to achieve ethno-religious dominance – they belong only to each other.

They are the them. We are the we.

And once we figure out there are only two tents on earth – one for the people willing to accept reality and live together, and one for people who are willing to murder and maim to dominate – we’ll stop being tempted to let them into our tent in the false hope that they offer some type of protection.

Instead, we’ll banish them to their own tent, where they can p— on each other all they like.

About

  • i_go_pogo

    Wow, a posting mentioning Israel with two comments so far, and neither one is antisemitic. I think that’s a first.

  • Sidney3

    Not only blowing up the hotel but daily incidents of terror directed at civilians by Muslims in Pakistan, Afghanistan and now India, your homeland, is not comparable to any other religion’s extremists.When non-Muslims start blowing up civilians in market- places, cafes, buses, trains on a daily basis then you can say they are catching up with the Muslims.

  • Sidney3

    Mr. Patel,Now this has nothing to do with a country letting extremists take shelter in their country. This is all about Islam. Watch Bill Maher’s new movie. There are 1 billion Muslims (with 57 intolerant Islamic nations) in the world trying to wipe out the only Jewish state with 14 million Jews (and 20 percent Muslim population). No comparison. Only a Muslim would find it remotely comparable.

  • sparrow4

    sidney- extremists are extremists are extremists. And didn’t I read last week about a group of young Jewish extremists setting shops on fire, beating up women, and threatening others? Sorry- no difference, no matter your weapon of choice. The end result is the same- innocent people dead to further your version of G-d. And isn’t it interesting to see how this has come full circle? My first thought on reading about the stores set on fire- kristallnacht (sp?). So now we Jews have finally twisted our psyches around 360 degrees to do to our own what the Germans did?Know what- you’re right. there is a difference- Jewish extremists are even worse.

  • batya113

    Muslims conquered and ruled over Spain for 700 years before the Spaniards again gained control. Spain has never (and will never) offer to give up its land to those who conquered it – nor should they. Are the Spaniards ever called “extremists” or “militant settlers” for living and raising families on land once occupied by muslims? Trying to link Jewish “settlers” to the Taliban is reflective of the lack of proportion many of the fringe left (I’m being nice here) bring to mid east politics.

  • [email protected]

    batya113You really need to do a more thorough reading of the history of Spain.Wa’salaam

  • Arminius

    Hi, Sparrow,Kristallnacht in Israel, done by extremist Jewish thugs? Does the evil finally come full circle?You are right, Eboo is right, extremists are extremists. Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Hindu, whatever, makes no difference. The dead are still dead. What was it that Gandhi said? “Yes, I am a Muslim. And also a Christian, and a Jew, and a Hindu, and a Buddhist.”As I said once,

  • simi24

    I’m really glad to be reading this. I hope that more Muslims in this country and around the world actually feel this way.I don’t want to offend anyone, but I have in fact found many Muslims to blindly side with the actions of their extremist cronies because those actions were said to be in the name of God or their tennants. I think it’s absolutely ridiculous to do so, but I guess so is killing in the name of God. What a world we live in.

  • CCNL

    Crumble the foundations of these extremists ( and their rich sympathizers) with historic reality. That and only that will solve the problem!!!The historic reality of Judaism: 1. Most if not all the OT is myth. What is not myth is semi-fiction.www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/ConservativeTorah.htm 2. We are all God’s chosen. 3. Israel was established by the UN in 1948. It should honor the original UN agreement and live within the described borders. Considering the hate generated by passages in the koran, erecting dividing walls on these borders should be completed. UN forces should control these walls. And Jerusalem should be made into an international city under the control and protection of the UN. The historic reality of Islam:Mohammed was an illiterate, womanizing, lust and greed-driven, warmongering, hallucinating Arab, who also had embellishing/hallucinating/ plagiarizing scribal biographers who not only added “angels” and flying chariots to the koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers. This agenda continues as shown by the assassination of Bhutto, the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/ mosque bombers, the Islamic bombers of the trains in the UK and Spain, the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani “koranics”, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases, the Taliban nut jobs, and the Filipino “koranics”.

  • batya113

    Anthony, thanks for the giggle. Eboo believes in adjusting the facts to fit his own ideological beliefs and it is obvious that the kumbaya crowd feels comfortable doing so as well. Demonizing Jewish “settlers” is an easy scapegoat, I guess, but what is really the point? Perhaps it’s this: Painting the Jewish settlers as the key to the mideast problem which is completely reductionist. Taliban=Jewish “settlers”= moronic statement and false moral equivalence.

  • batya113

    Astoria, Maimonides fled Spain!!! Quick note from Wikipedia (but check any reliable source): “The Almohades from Africa conquered Córdoba in 1148, and threatened the Jewish community with the choice of conversion to Islam, death, or exile.[7] Maimonides’s family, along with most other Jews, chose exile.”

  • Arminius

    batya113,Yeah, well, in 1492 Ferdinand and Isabella gave every Jew in Spain just a few months to sell all their possessions and leave, carrying no gold or silver. Here is the interesting fate of some of them:Spain’s economy paid for its mistreatment of the Jews: many had been skilled craftsmen. Sultan Bajazet of Turkey warmly welcomed those who escaped to his country. “How can you call Ferdinand of Aragon a wise king–the same Ferdinand who impoverished his own land and enriched ours?” he asked. He employed the Jew in making weapons to fight against Europe.

  • sparrow4

    batya113-”Eboo believes in adjusting the facts to fit his own ideological beliefs and it is obvious that the kumbaya crowd feels comfortable doing so as well. Demonizing Jewish “settlers” is an easy scapegoat,.”In fact, that isn’t what he did but what you’re doing is exactly the point he is making. Your extremists, my extremists. Extremist settlers have no care for the rest of Israel as long as they get what they want. they have no qualms about putting everyone at risk, breaking peace agreements, or taking land that is under question. Sounds like extremist behavior to me. They will sacrifice nothing to gain peace for the state of Israel- its all about me,me,me,me,me. they aren’t the only problem, nor is the problem only on the Israelis side. But to not recognize what part you play is to be irresponsible. And extremist.ccnl, Calling Jews the chosen people is the language of the Bible. Most of us feel it means Chosen for Great Aggravation. Most of us take it with a grain of salt the size of Lot’s wife. Christians use the term far more than I have heard Jews use it so if the term bothers you, take it up with them.Hey Arminius- glad to see you here!

  • Roger10

    Mr. Patel,

  • sparrow4

    Batya113:”Spain has never (and will never) offer to give up its land to those who conquered it – nor should they.”One could say this line applies to the Palestinians as well, not just Israeli settlers.Understand this, Batya113- extremists don’t care about peace. They don’t care how their fight impacts the rest of the world- they feel self- righteous and entitled to whatever they feel they want. This is not Judaism. this is extremism.Let me also state for the record- I think Muslim extremists are the dregs of the earth. I also feel that way about any extremists. There is no ranking in “extremist”- there is just one level- scum.

  • mightysparrow

    The problem with Mr. Patel’s “us and them” dichotomy is that the only people who can assert control over the extremist Israeli’s are Israelis, and the only people who can assert control over extremist Palestinians are Palestinians. We must take responsibility for our “own” group’s people who use violence against others to further their agendas. Failure to criticize them and take action to stop them is equivalent to giving them our approval- for they know that only people from their own country, or religion, can stop them.

  • Arminius

    Sparrow,Oh, my goodness! Please do not insult scum by equating it to extremists! Extremists lie, on the evolutionary scale, somewhere between the AIDS virus and the botulism bacterium.

  • LucyLou1

    An “extremist” is a relative term. If some Native American walked up to my door with a shotgun pointed at me and said, “My ancestors had this land 2,000 years ago and I’ve come to take it back. It’s mine, now…” whereupon I proceed to defend myself, does that make me “extremist?” My point is, there is an historical element which must be considered when labeling someone an “extremist.” History is NOT on the side of the zionists.

  • sparrow4

    arminius- oh! Of course- how embarrassing. Scum is much more complex organism. On the other hand, don’t you think we need to downgrade a bit-say to the level of amoeba or paramecium? I know, I know- it’s insulting to them too. Question: Would slime have been a better reference, do you think?

  • jdf36

    Mr. Patel, do you really think you can write an article about Israel and Pakistan, suggest a common theme, and then claim you are not comparing them? There are so many, many differences between what is going on in Pakistan and what is occurring in the West Bank. Why not discuss extremist Christians in the US who blow up abortion clinics? Why not point out some differences if you want to show how them become “ours” in supposedly every society?PAKISTAN is arguably producing the most violent, consistent, and organized form of terror the world has seen.ISRAEL has yet to convict anyone of the pipe bomb, and if they do convict a settler, it would be the first to use explosives in years.ISRAEL AND PAKISTAN are both struggling to get a grip on internal extremists, but for the sake of honesty, let’s recognize that one on the struggles is a full blown and deadly war, and that the other is still, well, not.

  • Arminius

    Sparrow,If I recall my long-ago biology instruction, a amoeba or paramecium is still above a bacterium.Speaking of low-level life forms, CCNL has inserted another of his pointless spams.

  • heatherczerniak

    “Let me cut some of you off before you even begin to write your comments: I am not comparing Israel and Pakistan, or the militant settlers and the terrorist Taliban.”Hey Eboo, why did you mention Israeli extremists? And why are you calling Israeli settlers “extremists?”Don’t you realize that the West Bank and Gaza are the property of Israel? Israel doesn’t have to give the Palestinians anything. And why don’t you implore the neighboring Arab countries to take the Palestinians in?Israel owes the world nothing.

  • observer12

    Mr. Patel,This is an unfortunate post since for awhile you had credibility around here. The numbers of settler extremists vs. the number of Muslim terrorists? Is this a joke? Assuming it might not be,1. How many settlers murdered their sisters in the form of honor killings?2. How many Palestinian Muslims did the same? (The rough answer is known, and you should know it.)3. How many Jewsish settlers sured Muslim children and then murdered them?4. How many Muslims did the same? (Rough answer is known and you should know it.)5. How many Muslims were tortured to death to extract “confessions” from them of dealing with Israelis? (Approximate answer is known, and you should know it.)6. How many Jews wee tortured to death for dealing with Muslim officials?7. How many settlers detonated suicide or truck bombs?8. How many Muslims detonated suicide or truck bombs, inIsrael9. How many settlers bombed the World Trade Center?10. How many Muslims bombed the World Trade Center?You know what, Eboo? If you want to pick on someone, pick on a group your own size. How about the Christians? But no, you wouldn’t. Of course not. That would compromise your position here. You don’t really want to talk about the plight of Christian minorities in places like Pakistan, now do you? No, because you are in a Christian country and you know you couldn’t get away with it.Well, guess what. I wouldn’t count on Christians to support you. They’re keeping careful watch on the number of their own martyred in the Middle East. And I wouldn’t count on them at all, not at all, to share your “point of view.”How about the plight of Jews in all the Middle Eastern Countries, Eboo? What? I can’t hear. Farnaz, you around? What is the number in exile? How many millions?

  • sparrow4

    Well Mr. Patel- so much for trying to be reasonable and open a constructive dialogue.heatherczerniak- the worst thing any pro-Israel Jew can do is ignore the acts of extremist settlers or sects, or pretend that their actions are not ultimately as injurious to the possibility of peace in the region as any other extremist act. You obviously didn’t read Mr. Patel’s comments very carefully- he refers to specific instances that indeed are exactly what an Islamist terrorist would avocate. And if you haven’t been reading about the growing problem of fundamentalism in Israel, well, you are in for a treat. do a little research- one extremist act is just like another- muslim, jewish or christian. Our biggest crime is our denial. with every denial we enable them.

  • cheemaps

    While agreeing with the main idea of Mr Patel, I’d like to bring into attention the rise of Hindu extremism in India-something Eboo seems to have overlooked.

  • heckertkrs

    You’ve got it exactly right. There used to be a saying (dating I think originally from when Hitler and the Communists were fighting it out in pre-World War II Germany) :

  • dollyq

    Mr. Patel,I believe that you enjoy giving the anti-semites

  • Farnaz2

    “I am not comparing Israel and Pakistan, or the militant settlers and the terrorist Taliban.” You’re not? Really. That is very kind of you. Are you comparing with the Taliban the Palestinian Muslims for whom (NB Observer12) one out of every three murders is an honor killing, usually of a woman who has been raped?Are you comparing Pakistan with Palestine, where corruption is so rampant that on occasion civil servants such as Arafat’s nephew are murdered in the streets? Are you comparing Palestinian Muslims with the Pakistani police? You shouldn’t, since more often than the Palestinian Muslim police Pakistani police make an effort to observe due process.As for Pakistan, the horror began with Zia, who, as you well know, was Our Man in Islamabad. That would be Zia of the Madrassah Zias, Zia who welcomed the Saudis in to build Madrassahs so as to export terror from their own country, Zia whose Madrassah building the US conveniently ignored as we were busy fighting off the Russians in Afghanistan, who, btw., had not yet invaded. You are being horrifically disingenuous in this post. You are well aware that the US had troops at the Afghan border in 1979. You know the history of the Madrassahs, the Taliban, etc.Your trying to evade and muddy too many issues in a country which has some freedom of the press. Are you comparing the Palestinian Muslims with the Taliban who will not tolerate Christians? Would that be a comparison with the Palestinian Muslims who have driven out so many Palestinian Muslims into ISRAEL, WHICH CONTINUES TO TAKE THEM?Would you be making that comparison, since, if so, I didn’t notice.Would you be comparing the Palistinian Muslims with the Iranian Muslims who exiled 1,000,000 of us Jews, killed and tortured others? And then their are the Bahai, in such danger right now that they are being watched by the UN. Watched. Since that is all said entity does, and it does so not very well. My family which had been in Iran since the middle ages fled in the night, and we weren’t alone. Christians fled too as you know quite well. How many remain?Then there are the other two million Jews in exile from their Middle Eastern countries (NB Observer), which stole their homes and their property. What of our rights, Mr. Patel?It’s terribly unfortunate that you chose to set up false parallels and false oppositions, seeking, it would seem to unite with Christians and pit them against Jews. Bad timing. More and more, Christians are learning about the treatment of their brothers and sisters in the Middle East and in Muslim countries such as Pakistan.In the meantime, closest friend, a Pakistani Muslim national is being threatened by a Talib. Today, Islamabad was shut down due to a bomb scare, shut down. In the meantime, in Karachi, ordinary people are being dragged off the street and kidnapped. A Christian sweeper–oh, yes, we know about the sweepers–was found in his “home” having starved to death. Odd. Shouldn’t you be attending to some of these issues Mr. Patel? And then we have the thuggish Zardari, whom the whole country believes murdered his wife. No comment?Jewish fundamentalism is a very recent development. It began in Israel in the late seventies. That would be after the US insisted the Israelis give Arafat safe passage out of Syria, so that he could fly back into the arms of his most recent little blond boyfriend and continue his killing spree. These “fundamentalists” recall Arafat speaking at the UN in 1980, speaking by invitation about peace, while murdering a busload of school children in Israel.I’m not sure what kind of manipulation you’re up to here, but you’re on the wrong blog. The rhetoric you see here will probably surprise bloggers familiar with my posts, but the bottom line is bloggers here are literate. I can’t quite get down to the level of your demagoguery, but rhetoric I can do.

  • Arminius

    Farnaz,Ease up, friend, cool down. I think you have an axe to grind here, your feet are on the ground in Israel. (Note here: in 1967, on the first day of the Six Day war, I was looking for a place to volunteer to fight for Israel. By the next two days, it was apparent that all they needed was a bunch of cheerleaders.)Eboo has a different perspective, one that I can appreciate. A universal law: an extremist is an extremist, regardless of the origin or reason, regardless of the numbers killed. The dead are still dead, no matter who killed them. Eboo is not after one source, but THE source.With respect,Arminius

  • laxmi1

    This is typical Muslim argument to “support” daily Islamic terror attacks on civilians: “other religions have extremists too”. It is sad when even an educated American Muslim makes this excuse.Muslims are engaging in mindless suicidal/homicidal massacres of civilians all over the world every day and it is no way comparable to what other religons’ extremists are doing.

  • Farnaz2

    Sorry, Arminius, I disagree. Equating the Israelis with the Taliban and saying you’re not is demagoguery. What I posted, in contrast to what Patel did, is fact. There are many more facts I could have listed and will list. It is not only or even primarily Palistinian Muslims who have fled into Israel, but Palistinian Christians, and they have fled for their lives. The settlers, as Observer notes, have seen horrors few of us can imagine. I can. But then I saw the Iranian Revolutionary Guard murder a family friend. I was a child. They were also big into torture at the time, and they still are, as are the Palistinian Muslims.The settlers have seen children lured from their homes and murdered. They have been victimized in every conceivable way. Realize that from one perspective this is their country, end of discussion. Most Palestinians are Turks who came to Israel during the Renaissance. Jews have been there since before there was a Mohammad.Still, it was not until the seventies when the sacrifice of Jews for oil became apparent to them in ways I will DOCUMENT in future posts that this fundamentalism began. And we are not only speaking of settlers. Every time a child is murdered, every time children are terrified by missiles from Lebanon (Greater Syria), with every suicide bombing, every car bombing, more Jewish extremists are born.Btw., these particular child victims are often orphans, Ethiopian Jews, Egyptian Jews, Russian Jews. If Patel wants an end to Jewish extremism, then he ought to go and find out why after the Palestinians via Clinton had 96% of what they wanted they started all over again. Again and again, they have said they want the Israelis out of Israel. That is not a basis for peace.Jews are not the only people in the world exiled from their country. Speak to the Vietnamese, but they came back. So did Jews.The settlements can and should be disbanded. But a lot will have to change first, I hope. Here, although most American Jews were skeptical of the Clinton plan, they went along with it because the Israelis so desperately wanted peace they were willing to believe anything, try anything. They never believed the Likkud which told them the “Peace” was BS, that Palestinian school children were reading the worst racist filth, reminiscent of Die Sturmer. And Likkud did not want to show it to them. Well, now many Israelis have seen it. They’ve seen the same filth in Egyptian, Syrian, Yemeni, Saudi newspapers as well. Of course the stuff is so stupid that it’s hilarious, but as my Pakistani friend, my sister, says, if all you read, see, and here, is idiocy, you become idiotic.But much of my post also concerns Patel’s odd preoccupation with Jews. Why does he not speak of the horror of Palestinian life in Egypt, Saudi Arabia, etc. Many Palestinians did not want to leave Egypt, but along with Jews were driven out. Some remain. Why don’t we here about them?And if he is preoccupied about Jews, again what about the three million of us, THREE MILLION, exiled from the Middle East. Or, if he wants to talk about Israel, how about the Israeli soldier killed a few months ago while guarding a Christian church?Or, he could talk about how in the first Gulf War, we prevented Israel from defending itself since that might upset its oil-producing neighbors?!! He could mention how along with this government, the Israeli government lied and said no one was killed, when nearly 100 were.I mean, there is so much he can say if he’s interested in us.I wonder if he could do something about Ismael whom the Iranian Revolutionary Guard murdered in the street as they were taking him into “custody” to torture. I loved him very much. Any comment, Mr. Patel?

  • Farnaz2

    Oh, and Mr. Patel, when you have a moment, tell us about the treatment of Palestinian Christians in Jordan, where they are now the majority! Then you can move on to the Christian sweepers in Pakistan.

  • Arminius

    Farnaz,I’m not going to get into this subject right now, because there are two more important things going on.One, baseball playoffs.Two, Pseudo just showed up on Susan Jacoby’s blog.

  • OwainOzymandiasBuck

    There is always conflict, but most of us seek to settle it with some recognition that those we are in conflict with are as human as us. We appeal to the rule of law and the right to address of grievances. Even at our angriest, we often later regret our words, guilty at their violence. But there are those who thrive on the shattering of civilization. They may have a creed on their tongues, but their works betray their hearts, which burn until there is nothing left but emptiness.Conflict is never as simple as it seems, but we like dichotomies–the dualistic view is a quick and dirty tool to help us come to grips with the state of the world. So although we can’t label it as East-West, your religion or mine, or even those with plenty and those who go without–still it’s true–there are only the house of Peace and the house of War. And there are too many poor bastards caught in between.

  • Shootingsparks

    It is an amazing breath of fresh air to see this column. The American media rarely mentions Israel in anything other than the most fawning of term, as most in American media are Jewish, and therefore have citizenship in Israel by birth.

  • Farnaz2

    Mr. Patel,Note this: Shootingsparks “It is an amazing breath of fresh air to see this column. The American media rarely mentions Israel in anything other than the most fawning of term, as most in American media are Jewish, and therefore have citizenship in Israel by birth.You see, Mr. Patel, what I mean by hilarious. But this blogger who thinks with his ass is not alone. He, or his ass, actually believes what he says, or farts. The media, asshead, is not owned by Jews, but by Christians, and is internationally incorporated. Israel isn’t much mentioned now, because the media, Asshead, is concerned with its nonreporting on IRaq. But then the fleeing Palestinian Christians were never much mentioned were they, Ass? Nor were the endless suicide bombings of synagogues, car bombings, etc.Asshead, the United States government gives 6,000,000 annually to Egypt, which has driven its Jews into exile and persecutes its Christians, gays, women, etc. In the meantime, Assformind, Egyptians never see the money and are literally starving in the current food shortage while Mubarak and Friends live it up on the 6,000,000. Your Ass needs to read more or do whatever your Ass does that one with a brain would otherwise do.

  • DebChatterjee

    Arminius wrote:”A universal law: an extremist is an extremist, regardless of the origin or reason, regardless of the numbers killed. The dead are still dead, no matter who killed them. Eboo is not after one source, but THE source.”Then Prophet Muhammad was an extremist too. He had Abu Afak, Asma-bint-Marwan, Ka’ab-bin-Ashraf killed because they were a thorn on his side. And Muslims are supposed to emulate Prophet Muhammad as their role model. So, was Osama bin Laden wrong, and if so how ? (He was also trying to rid the world of infidels as did Prophet Muhammad and the present day Jihadists for whom the sunnah of the prophet is divine and pristine.) Would you not agree ?

  • Farnaz2

    As we go down the Q’ranic Memory Lane, perhaps we can reminisce about the genocide of the Qurayza Jews. Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose….

  • sparrow4

    I couldn’t agree more. I’ve always noted that religious extremists all seem to sound alike. what’s happening in Israel is horrible- I don’t recognize the Judaism i was raised with as what they are practicing. My only quibble- i would add Christian extremists to the group too. Can we just make sure the two tents are far away from each other?

  • ParkHillPosse

    Mr. Patel:As a Jew I share your thoughts and have looked with dismay at the extremist tendencies of much of the settler movement. People of faith and righteousness (whether Christian, Muslim or Jew) share more in common with each other than with the extremist, violent, hateful wings of their co-religionists. As an American Jew my loyalty is to the USA rather than Israel, but I support Israel and would like to see the Israelis reach a compromise over East Jerusalem and the West Bank. And hopefully Saudi involvement in negotiations with the Taliban will yield an improvement in the climate over there, God knows what will happen in Pakistan. Anyway, to my Christian, Muslim and Jewish brother and sisters who also believe in mutual understanding and peace, let me echo the words of Micah: “Do justly, love mercy and walk humbly with your God.”

  • ASTORIA

    AWWW- I came back because it was so reasonable in here before- why do the haters and islamophobes always come and ruin it?

  • fre94

    stephanemot : “Back then, Palin already used canned answers to dodge the key issues : “I don’t think there should be a prohibition against debate if it comes up in class. It doesn’t have to be part of the curriculum”If you look at the core of the proposition, it means : stop making this teaching illegal, leave it up to the teacher.Palin is not a closet evolutionist : she is a hardcore theocon, but a careful one. After the publication of the Discovery Institute’s Wedge document, no politician can promote ID without risking his/her career.Palin perfectly illustrate the new creationist agenda : we have taken into account the failure of our Intelligent Design imposture, and we understand that we cannot be too pushy these days, but our priority is to make sure some door is somewhat opened for the next waves.The only evolution Palin will ever accept is from democracy to theocracy.” October 4, 2008 8:23 PMBrakes tapered with, statetrooper report completed, keep building my case, thanks

  • JamieRoberts

    Excellent commentary. Extremism is the true enemy and unfortunately it infects people of all faiths.

  • captn_ahab

    Although religious extremism is to be rejected at all levels, there remains a strong difference between religious extremism that is a global movement happy to engage in mass murder, and local diffuse acts of religious extremism. A religious extremism that knows no local boundaries, wishes to export its extremist ideology as far as possible, and acts far outside the accepted boundaries of civilized behavior remains qualitatively different from manifestations of such extremism contained within a local community. Both should be fought from within the communities they originate, but one is significantly more dangerous to the world community and peace than the other. The one with global ambitions that uses mass murder as a tool must also be fought by the secular forces whose goal is to protect everyone.

  • sparrow4

    Isn’t it ludicrous to even be discussing “levels” of extremism? Which proponent of extremism is worse than the other? Because I guarantee you, to the people who are beaten, wounded,see their families and businesses destroyed,or are driven out of their homes and country, it still feels goddam pretty much the same, no matter who is doing it. Mr. Patel was not comparing terrorists to equate them- he is simply and honestly stating that all extremists are alike- destructive, murderous, and pretty much insane.face it- anyone willing to kill innocents to promote their own agenda is an extremist. You may want to make excuses for one group or another- that just makes you an advocate. And just as guilty.

  • Arminius

    Hi, Sparrow,Doesn’t it depend on the definition of extremism? We now associate it with violence and terrorism, but that is not necessarily so. Many extremist Christians are not violent, just horribly obnoxious – their danger comes in the form of politics. And look at the Amish – in their own way, they are extremists. But a gentler, more forgiving people you will not find anywhere. And they are not political at all.

  • svengerald

    Mr Patel, lets face it, comparing Israels “militant settlers” to muslim extremists is like comparing Ivan the Terrible to Rebecca of Sunnybrook farm. Who are the people cutting off heads on video? Who are the ones planting bombs anywhere and everywhere they are? Who are the ones grabbing Christians from their shops in Iraq, Thailand, Malaysia and Pakistan and executing them? Are these people doing these things to protect their homes? No, they are exhibiting typical muslim supremist attitudes. Nice try.

  • Garak

    Farnaz wrote:”As we go down the Q’ranic Memory Lane, perhaps we can reminisce about the genocide of the Qurayza Jews.”Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose….”Yes, and as we go down the Old Testament Memory Lane, we can reminisce about the Midians, the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the good people of Jericho. Bien sur, plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose…

  • sparrow4

    A good question, arminius. I did think that as I wrote but I still think that while I would call the Amish extremely religious, I always thought labeling someone an extremist implies a degree of violence and willingness to do harm in the name of your cause. People here seem to think there are degrees of extremism, that if you shoot an unarmed Palestinian because he might be a bomber instead of a man who wants his ancestor’s olive grove back, that somehow you’re a cut above Al Qaeda. I don’t hold with that at all. While Muslim terrorists may seem predominant in the present time, every religion has something to be ashamed of. And there is no good cause that will survive extremism. Extremists are not good. Period. And the rest of us suffer for it.

  • Arminius

    Sparrow,I think it was 9/11 that really fixed terrorism on extremism, or fanaticism as it were. Any violence done as an assault against innocents in the name of any cause is despicable. Of course, the assailants will redefine ‘innocents’. According to Al Qaida, anyone opposed to their twisted vision is an enemy. Likewise, anyone opposed to Christian dominionism is the enemy of the dominionists, and, if they could, would ‘eliminate’ such ‘enemies’.I am no pacifist, and am quite ready to fight violence with violence, in defense. But I do NOT want it to come to that, any more than it has….No more. This is depressing.

  • rhfrost

    Praise to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

  • rhfrost

    Praise to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

  • abhab

    Farnaz2 says:The Midianites, Caananites, Amorites and Malakites are mythical people? They are mentioned in the Old Testament as well as in history books. Those are the ancestors of the present day Palestinians. Artifacts from their regions that identify them are found in almost every museum in the West. You have to be more careful of what you say if you wish to maintain your credibility.

  • Carstonio

    Excellent column by Patel. I’ve long wanted the extremists in any dispute, religious or secular, to focus on each other and leave everyone else out of it. I would break my rule about reality shows if Survivor did a season using that premise.

  • mhoust

    Love it! Excellent commentary.

  • Farnaz2

    “I’ve long wanted the extremists in any dispute, religious or secular, to focus on each other and leave everyone else out of it.”Me too. Maybe al-Quaeda and Hamas could get together and chat. Oh, that’s right! They already have. Eyes up! Bombs away!

  • Carstonio

    “Oh, that’s right! They already have.”I meant some type of exile from the rest of the planet. Imagine Andrea Dworkin and Beverly LaHaye marooned together.

  • Farnaz2

    Ahab-”Those are the ancestors of the present day Palestinians. Artifacts from their regions that identify them are found in almost every museum in the West. You have to be more careful of what you say if you wish to maintain your credibility.”First, these are MYTHs in the TANAKH. Although some sites remain to be excavated, there is, at present, no credible biblical scholar who has identified any textual or archaeological evidence to demonstrate that they are not mythic. If you know of one, then please state his/her name, university affiliation, and titles of works in which evidence figures. Please specifiy the nature of the evidence.Second, if these peoples ever existed, they would bear no relation whatsoever to the present day Palistinians, most of whom are Turks who entered during the great conquest. There were those who came earlier came in the Middle Ages. Mohammed, Captain, was a seventh-prophet.Judaism had its origins six thousand years ago, i.e, five thousand years before said prophet. Jews were in Israel and some continued there despite the continued invasions.Normally, I don’t respond to nonsense. I’m assuming you’ve done no research whatsoever, have no historical knowledge of the region. Still, one must always entertain, give the benefit of the doubt.AGAIN, provide credible university affiliated sources with references that these TANAKH nations existed. Specify the type of evidence and disciplinary response.THEN, show credible university affiliated sources with references that said nations are the ancestors of anyone. Include the nature of the evidence (archaeological, textual, genetic, etc.) and references on the disciplinary reception of this “evidence.”At this point, I cannot truthfully say to you what you have said to me about credibility. What I can honestly say is that at this point you need not worry about losing your credibility since you have none to lose.

  • observer12

    Bonsoir Farnaz!Good posts. From under which rocks to they come?

  • Farnaz2

    Bonsoir Observer!You mean, where do some bloggers come from? Je n’ai aucune idée. I guess I wonder about what they’ve been exposed to, their access to knowledge, their judgment, the extent to which they’ve been encouraged to think critically, etc.

  • Farnaz2

    Well, Mr. Patel, we have any number of requests for your thoughts: the Q’ranic representations of Christians and Jews, the genocide of the Q’rayza Jews (plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose), the three million Jews in exile from the Middle EAst, the Christians who fled from there and the persecution of those who remain, the imperiled Bahai, the Christian sweepers of Pakistan, etc., etc.Lest I forget, please also comment on the slave-trade in FATA, elsewhere in feudal Pakistan, the bombings in India, the gun-running in Kashmir….And if your privileged Indian-American Muslim self gives the slightest darn about what you described as the “heinous assassination of Benazir Bhutro,” then learn something about the history of Pakistan, and do comment on what the entire country believes, that her husband, soon to be sworn in President, Zardari was her murderer.A lot of Pakistanis are not very happy about that. And since you care so deeply….

  • ASTORIA

    “Believers, never let the hatred of a people toward you move you to commit injustice.” (Qur’an 5:8)

  • ASTORIA

    Now, before you kneejerk and pooh pooh this particular study and it’s findings- remember- there are 59 others listed in that link- I find that when I have a visceral response to any given disagreeable data or assertion- that it us often an opportunity to reflect on just what makes myself tick- Generally- I goggle the position of the offensive (to my own viscera) assertion to see if there is actually any merit in the contention.

  • ASTORIA

    Farnaz-

  • Farnaz2

    Arminius,I have no wish to argue with you about this Turkish and Turkic matter. I will say that even were I to concede and I don’t it would mean nothing. Many Palestinians came to Turkey during the conquest, can trace their lineage to that event, and are very proud of it.The point is the Mohammed was a sixth-seventh century CE prophet and the religion did not come into being immediately. Judaism in originated six thousand years ago, although it has gone through many incarnations. Jews remained in Eretz Israel after the Romans, Mohammedans, Christians, Muslims, Christians, and Muslims again.They remained along with their Muslim brothers and sisters, while the Christian nights were walking in their blood and bone up to their ankles.This is not the case with the Native Americans. This was and rightfully is their land. Stolen from them by the EuroChristians, then by the AmeriChristians, as all stand by and watch their genocide.Of course, the Christians should vacate the continent, return the southwest, Texas, etc. to the Mexicans. Of course. Then the rest of us should vacate. Let me know the date, and I’ll sign up. In the meantime it would be nice if you at least worked on stopping the genocide and honoring your treaty obligations.As for us J people, you want to talk history? Then there is no argument as I have shown. And Palestinians need to vacate Eretz Israel, and much of JOrdan needs to be returned. Israel has not asked for that. In fact if you recall they have dismantled settlements. The have displaced there own people. One set herself on fire as was shown on TV. The Palestinian “Authority” demanded that all the homes, schools, infrastructure the Israelis had built be destroyed. WHY? And so? What is there now? Nothing.You want to end the conflict? Well Yasir Arafat doesn’t have a wife to pay off anymore, to keep silent about his white blond boyfriends. However, if you go tooling about in Palestine you will see four mercedes in any number of garages while people starve. No one can stop the corruption, honor killings, torture that goes on there except the Palestinians.Unlike them, Jewish fundamentalism did not develop until the 1970s, when the US forced the Israelis to give ARafat safe passage out of Syria when Israel was nine miles from Damascus. That was during the famous Yom Kippur War about which more later. I will say that the US FORCED ISRAEL TO GIVE ASSISTANCE TO THE TRAPPED EGYPTIAN THIRD ARMY so that they could go on killing Jews. That did breed more extremists.Finally, you had close to the last straw, but not quite which was Yasir Arafat, blond pre-teen in tow, talking about peace at the UN while a busload of children was being murdered. Children were deliberately targeted and killed. It’s a specialty of some people.Of course there’s much more. The Clinton plan. For two thousand years Jews have prayed facing Yeruashalyem, the site of Solomon’s Temple. Yet you see what happened when Sharon went there to pray. End of peace plan.Last point. When MOshe Dyan won the Six Day War in 1967, he held the Temple. Jews everywhere rejoiced. They could return. But the AmeriChristians and EuroChristians said no. It would upset Exxon, BP, the oil producing nations. They don’t want to share the site. AND DAYAN LEFT.Every day in every way Palestinian terrorists and corrupt officials make more Jewish fundamentalists. It is their contribution to Judaism. And Christian oil interests, nothing personal, have contributed to the problem. Every time a child is killed, a promise is broken, an Israeli learns about the racist filth not only in the Middle East, but here and in Europe, fundamentalists are born.MOst Israelis are still clueless about the anti-Jewish racism in the US. They know something about France because in the last twenty years they have taken in French Jewish refugees. They know a little about some other countries.Now, many Jews are trying desperately to let them know what this country is doing and has done, much worse than even most Americans know. More later.

  • Farnaz2

    Btw.,Jews go back millennia in other countries in the Middle East pre Mohammed as the Qu’ran shows. When do we three million get our rights back? Our homes restored? Our temples restored? Etc., Etc., Etc.Just wondering….

  • Farnaz2

    A Christian or Jewish extremist can and do exist in any tent, however a Muslim Extremist WILL explode taking with him everyone and the tent. Christian and Jewish extremists do fly easily in planes however we cannot fly in a commercial plane with a loaded ready to explode Muslim Extremist, every time we fly we are reminded of that aren’t we?Sorry, but Christian and Jewish extremists are not interchangeable. We have not blown up the offices of doctors who perform abortions. We do not insist that the government teach “Intelligent Design,” etc. We give money without asking for conversion. We now have in Israel some fundamentalists, courtesy, of Palestinian Muslim terrorists, Muslim terrorists from other nations, the United States of America, and, of course, Europe. Indeed the racist filth of Muslim nations was exported to those countries by the Euro and AmeriChristians. Now, it has been Islamicized.Just leave us the f*ck alone, give us access to our Temple, and all will be fine.

  • abhab

    Farnaz; The following tribes lived in the following regions relative to the Dead Sea. The Midianites; south, the Moabites: east, the Ammonites; northeast. The Arameans north of the Sea of Galilee, the Canaanites throughout the mountainous regions of historical Palestine and Lebanon. The Philistines on the coastal region of Palestine. All those tribes were there long before some Hebrew tribe wandered in there from Egypt in 1400BC, were there during the Hebrews stay and after they wandered back out in 70 AD.

  • shortlife

    How the extremist get their financil funds and weapons? The west and others have gotten rich because of selling the weapons to them. Guess who was topping the list to supply arms to BOTH Iran & Iraq at the same time during the wars? Who left the weapon behind in Afghansitan?Strange ppl talk about one, two, three person been beheaded or executed but not the nefarious hidden hands of the one responsible for million deads? Black sheeps inside the tent

  • ASTORIA

    There is a disconnect in your reasoning Farnaz. We all have biases- tht is expected and normal- Also- the Israeli government has extended a handsome financial package to Iranian Jews, to emigrate to Israel. They have declined (25,000 of them) and are content to stay in their homes. (source Haaertz) If you feel this alienated and prejudiced against in America, why would you not go to Israel? I have seen a few prejudices come and go into vogue in America. I notice you also had no comment on the extensive report posted for your benefit. Arminius- Yes, history certainly shows the march of the Turks- and that study proves it from a genetic POV- which is always nice when history and scince are in harmony.

  • abhab

    Farnaz says: Below are some of the recent books published by ASOR (American Society of Oriental Research) on the archeological finds of the people of the Greater Syria.Cult Image and Divine Representation in the Ancient Near East The Tafila-Busayra Archaeological Survey 1999-2001, West-Central Jordan100 Years of American Archaeology in the Middle East Archaeology and the Religions of Canaan and IsraelContact Information

  • Abumaya

    Eboo, I think you misunderstand J.Edgar Hoover’s comment. Keeping the extremists in the tent is a way of keeping them under lock and key. This is why Israel had such a hard time deciding whether to outlaw Meir Kahana’s Kach party. On the one hand, you don’t want to admit that you have extremists, on the other, you need to contain them.

  • Farnaz2

    abhab: The people of Greater Syria? By this I assume you don’t mean present-day Lebanon?Please specify what you mean, specify which excavations have resulted in evidence of the existence of the peoples you mentioned, any evidence of continuity with them and inhabitants of present-day Israel or Palestine. Many scholars not only on this blog, but the world scholars would be interested in such claims supported by evidence. A couple of the members of Asor, I know. I have never seen them make the claims you do. As I mentioned, there are unexcavated sites. There are also sites that in the last thirty years have been destroyed, more’s the great, great pity, Captain, but thus far, the evidence doesn’t exist.There is only one central question that must be answered and it does not concern the topic we’re discussing.BUT, CCNL, take note, just in case.

  • halozcel1

    **Believers,never let the hatred of a people toward you move you to commit injustice*5.8Justice in islam/submission means Shariah Laws,nothing else.Islam/submission doesnt know what Contemporary Justice is.**When we vilify the *other*,that bias becomes bigotry**.Yes,correct.It’s very nice *Alice in Wonderland* word.*I(Allah) will cast FEAR/TERROR into the hearts of those who disbelieve(non-muslim) 8.12Dear Readers,Islam/submission is the name of the Cult in Saudi Arabia,Iran(islamic republic),Afghanistan etc.,not *Alice in Wonderland* Utopia.*Peace* is not possible in Land of War.Halozcel

  • Farnaz2

    abhabCaptain, resorting to name calling when you lack evidence grows old and wearisome. Last post to you until you come up with what we generally refer to as evidence. What you call the “Philistines” was the name given to the enemies of the Israeli tribesJews were in Eretz Israel throughout the exile by the Romans and imperialist slaughters by Christians, Mohammadans, Christians, and Muslims.I am sorry you have no compassion for the Palestinian Christians. However, Israel has no money, and the six billion going to Mubarrak and friends, whose persecution of the Egyptian Palestinians is very well known, isn’t helping to defray expenses. Why should tiny Israel be taking these refugees? Aren’t there Christian and Muslim nations that could take them? Have you been helping to defray expenses for taking them? I’m not asking for tear croccodile or otherise. Cash will do nicely. While you’re at it, bodies, gentile, to guard Christian sites and money for their upkeep would be good too.Meantime, rights of Persian, Egyptian, Iraqi, Syrian, Yemini, etc. Jews must be addressed. We want our homes, temples restored. We want memorials for those murdered. I want one for Ismael. We are three million. My taxes and yours, if you pay them, are indirectly going there.There are Jews in Iraq “liberating” that country. Does that make sense? Does maintaining relations of any sort with cesspools like Saudi Arabia which funds Madrassahs, exports terrorism, publishes all kinds of racist filth against Jews and Christians?Meantime, you may not care about Palestinian Christians, the Christians imprisoned in Pakistan, the few Christians in Iran, the imperiled Bahai in Iran, etc., etc., etc., but many Christians do care. They care about the sweepers. They care about the martyrs. They care.You see, Captain, it’s not all about vous.

  • Farnaz2

    CCNL:Look at what happens when you’re away from the blog.

  • CCNL

    Ashab, Ashab, Ashab,Your history/geography “lesson” had no references supporting your statements. Please provide.

  • ASTORIA

    Excellent points Arminius and Sparrow, and actually on topic too- He was speaking to the similar violence of intention in their minds and hearts- the extremism is not one of polarized swings between a philosophy- but an extremity of love to hatred- The Amish are an excellent example- the way they interpret and manifest their social codes may be a far conservative extreme- Rather than worrying about what clothing or place a person represents- the extremists really are similar in their own inner chaos- and desire to spread discord and violent chaos- As Arminius points out, and Islam concurs- any assault against any innocent is despicable.

  • observer12

    Farnaz,Did you watch the debate? If so, what did you think about it? You’ve got friends in Pakistan. What did you think about his threat? How will it play there?

  • ASTORIA

    Obama has stated his stance on Pakistan at length before- observer- so the reactions are already long in.

  • Farnaz2

    Hi Observer,I’ve already gotten a couple of emails. It looks like it won’t play well. Maybe, he’s got some strategy in mind. I don’t know. From what I gathered, the last time Obama did this it caused an uproar throughout the country, even among the intelligentsia, which supports him. Frankly, they’d like the end of what’s going on at the border, but things are very complex. They don’t want to see more innocent people killed, and they don’t like hearing that the US will simply step in if they think it’s in their interest to do so. (Who would?)They see what we don’t see on television in Iraq. They’re very angry at the horror. As well, there is a huge Pashtun population in Pakistan now, Zardari has already done some odd things and they fear internal conflicts will increase. To top it all off, many believe he’s responsible for the killing of his wife Benazir Bhutto. Violence of every conceivable kind is constant. This is the first time I’ve heard my friends say they’re living in a “failed state.” The bottom line is that people are scared of politico-religious violence, criminal violence, an unstable government–you name it. There is a sense I get from friends that something horrible is looming on the horizon,something worse than what they’ve yet seen. And they have seen a lot.I’ve got to log off, Observer. Have a good night.Farnaz

  • halozcel1

    Lets have a look the real History of The Promised Land.3000 BC – Early Bronze AgeThis is the real History of Promised Land.

  • Farnaz2

    Abhab:From your original post:The Midianites, Caananites, Amorites and Malakites are mythical people? They are mentioned in the Old Testament as well as in history books. Those are the ancestors of the present day Palestinians. Artifacts from their regions that identify them are found in almost every museum in the West. You have to be more careful of what you say if you wish to maintain your credibility.October 7, 2008 10:45 PM As of yet, you have given no evidence of the existence of these peoples, whom I submit were in all likelihood, mythical.However, I am willing to go along with you that JOshua faught the Battle of Jericho and the walls came tumbling down with divine intervention. I am also willing to concede that Hashem, Baruch Hashem parted the Reeds Sea.As for your more recent posts which have nothing to do with the Midianites, Caananites, Amorites and Malakites as described in the Bible (where are the Amorites?), I can tell you that you are using the original Jewish Encyclopedia which is dated and has been replaced. Albright who died in 1971 has been all but defeated in much of his thinking as you should know, but he too, makes a strong case for Biblical Israel and the thousands of years in which Jews are evident there. There is no continuity between the peoples you mention and those who today call themselves Palestinians. Many of the ancient peoples, beginning with Ruth, if you’d like were converted. Mohammad was a sixth-to-seventh century prophet. That would be CE. Judaism is six thousand years old. I’ve given you my view, but will accept yours. Abraham came from Iran and follow you all the way to Solomon. It is good to know we are finally where we belong.NOW, what are you going to do about the American Indians? Unlike the Vietnamese and the Jews, they are displaced still, and genocide continues despite the treaties the AmeriChristians signed with them.

  • ASTORIA

    Oo- Francais de college- comme tout ordinaire!

  • Farnaz2

    Observer,Merci pour votre commentaire. Ca fait toujours plaisir de vous lire–A couple of my Pakistani friends fly to the US and other countries every month or two on business. The other three are academics with international reputations. One writes frequently for a major US newspaper. Visas would be no problem. The problem is that notwithstanding their sterling credentials, they chose to live in Pakistan. They are patriots, want to see a democratic country, etc.Leaving for awhile would mean leaving their work, classes, etc., and taking their families, in a couple of cases their extended families with them. Removing the children from school, removing elderly parents from their culture…Easier said than done as you know, but it may have to come to that.Thanks, Observe!Farnaz

  • ASTORIA

    Maybe you just have never learned anything aobut the Palestinian people. Here is another link for you to ignore- I have too much respect for the people here to cut and paste.

  • CCNL

    The New York Times article, titled ‘As Rabbis Face Facts, Bible Tales Are Wilting,’ opens:‘Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed. Nor did Moses. The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never occurred. The same is true of the tumbling of the walls of Jericho. And David, far from being the fearless king who built Jerusalem into a mighty capital, was more likely a provincial leader whose reputation was later magnified to provide a rallying point for a fledgling nation. ‘Such startling propositions—the product of findings by archaeologists digging in Israel and its environs over the last 25 years—have gained wide acceptance among non-Orthodox rabbis. But there has been no attempt to disseminate these ideas or to discuss them with the laity—until now.’

  • ASTORIA

    Farnaz- It doesn’t matter if there are mentions in selected reading- Jewish genetic scholars have decided through their 60 some studies that the Palestinians are indeed indigenous and properly placed in Modern Israel. What are you going to do about the millions of displace Palestinians? And by now, I would think you and Observer are chummy enough to use the familiar pronoun in your high school french exchanges.

  • abhab

    Farnaz asserts:From The Jewish EncyclopediaCCNL; Here are two sources of evidence.

  • CCNL

    McCurdy, History, Prophecy and the Monuments. published in 1901 – a bit dated considering the recent studies showing little or no evidence, text or archeology) of much of what is in the OT.Ditto for the second reference published in 1899

  • abhab

    CCNL. Here are more cites that might meet your acceptance.ALBRIGHT,WILLIAM F. The Archeology of Palestine and the Bible.Moab in Lakelux encyclopediaMidianites in JewishEncyclopedia.com CaananitesAmmonites in Catholic encyclopediaArameans

  • colossus800

    Eboo,and of course you forget to mention hindu extremists.I don’t think that jewish and muslim extremists are comparable. I don’t know of any jews who advocate murdering muslims or converting them, their choice, as a matter of faith. judaism discourages converts and believes everyone can go to heaven. you don’t get heaven by blowing up a bunch of innocent people, like the well over 100 suicide bus bombings in israel the past few years (not to mention all the other bombings) – you go to hell. you don’t get virgins by murdering people – you get your soul ripped apart by G-d in the afterlife.there are very legitimate self-defense issues the ‘settlers’ (who are on biblical land, btw) have with the palestinians who have been taking sniper shots at them on a very regular basis for a very long time, and often murdering their kids. that’s a war, straight and simple, not a question of extremists. one could also make the case it always takes extremists to fight a war, but that would be a gross oversimplification of history as dumb as your article.i’m not saying you don’t mean well, though, you seem to, and thanks for that…

  • colossus800

    also one other point, which people often forget when talking about the ‘settlements’.

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