Catholic League Shenanigans

The Catholic League is not the “All Catholic” League. It is not official Catholicism: still less does it speak for … Continued

The Catholic League is not the “All Catholic” League. It is not official Catholicism: still less does it speak for each and every one of the nation’s 60 million Catholics. As someone who once endeavored to work with the League, I was disappointed to learn that it is run out of a single office by a single ego. So, while I find newsworthy the recent exchanges between the League’s president, Bill Donahue and Evangelical pastor, John Hagee, they don’t amount to dogma.

Moreover, there are unanswered questions about the protest-apology sequence recently featured in the press. For one thing, Rev. Hagee has been repeating for two decades the stale rant that the Catholic Church is the “whore of Bablyon.” Similarly, Hagee has embraced the uncritical characterization of Pius XII as “Hitler’s pope.” [Hagee’s bigotry will receive a separate comment from Catholic America.]

Why then did the Catholic League wait until February of 2008 to become angered by Hagee’s career of bigotry over two decades? February was when the millionaire Reverend was invited to support Republican candidate, John McCain: but if the Arizona Senator’s action caused the ruckus, why didn’t the Catholic League just denounce McCain or continue to demand the candidate reject a bigot’s support? Why surrender and give absolution so meekly — especially when Hagee’s two-page apology used the mealy-mouthed expression of regret for “any comments that Catholics have found hurtful,” rather than the complete recantation called for?

Because Catholics who are committed to their religion would not sell out as easily as did the League, I think the whole episode smells of what my grammar-school Irish nuns called, “shenanigans” – and for political effects, not for defense of Catholicism.

Now, forgiveness is a virtue and I would not begrudge Mr. Donahue’s low threshold for bigotry. What irks me, however, is his venomous and unyielding denunciation of Catholics who support Senator Obama for president. The Catholic League demanded the dissolving of Obama’s Catholic support committee, accusing all of the members of disloyalty to the faith and labeling the actions of the Democratic Senator as “Hitlerian.” In light of Donahue’s meek passivity before the hateful career statements of a right-wing bigot, this is all too choleric bluster against fellow Catholics.

This contradictory behavior is explained by a glance at the League’s criteria for Catholic politics: abortion, embryonic stem cell research and tax dollars to Catholic schools. Left out are major Catholic teachings like forgiveness of Third World debt and opposition by two popes to the Iraq invasion. (Please note that an unjust war is just as intrinsically evil as an abortion.) The League also ignores the American Catholic Bishops’ support of universal health insurance, immigration reform that unifies families or repeal of the death penalty. Apparently, these major social justice teachings of the Church are not Catholic enough for the Catholic League.

Before anyone tries to make me choose between the Catholic League and the many others who don’t agree with its politics, let me say that ALL varieties of Catholic politics deserve tolerance. Papal documents and the teachings of the U.S. Bishops recognize that no one party represents the Catholic Church. In political matters, therefore, Catholic voters are allowed to sort out the set of issues that they consider most in accord with the Gospel. It is a lot like an individual going to a cafeteria and choosing among the various dishes while watching dietary restrictions. Rather than condemn progressives or conservatives like the Catholic League for being “cafeteria Catholics,” I praise both of them for demonstrating the freedom as citizens given to us by our Church. Now, if we could only keep the commandment to love one another….

(Note: mea culpa: After I posted, I realized that Donahue should be spelled Donohue. My apologies.)

(Read Bill Donohue’s response.)

About

Anthony M. Stevens-Arroyo Anthony M. Stevens-Arroyo is Professor Emeritus of Puerto Rican and Latino Studies at Brooklyn College and Distinguished Scholar of the City University of New York.
  • Steve

    Hagee’s pseudo-apology is typical of those in politics: say you regret the reaction, but not actually say your words (or actions) were wrong. Hagee did not say that the hateful things he said, over a long period of time, were incorrect or hateful, just that he was sorry for anything he said that others (Catholics) somehow found hurtful, in the interest of Evangelical-Catholic relations (for the election??). Sen Liberman, Fox News and other McCain supporters say this is enough. The Fox News host interviewing Lieberman about the issue dismissed the whole affair by saying “Moving on now to the substantive issues.”

  • AustrianOak

    Its real simple. Wright stepped up his rhetoric while Hagee apologized and is taking steps to clarify and moderate his speech.

  • Mr.Z

    Rev. Hagee was forgiven and his bigotry is not as big of a deal because he is WHITE!Pure and simple old fashioned bigotry!Catholic whites forgive whites while they won’t even give blacks a second look. No big mystery here, just old fashioned too faced bigotry.The same catholic church that burned Indians at the stake for not believing in their God, the same catholic church that murdered millions in history for NOT believing in their God.The catholic church has not changed much over time and through out history they have always has members who were bigots and they always will have.They protect priests who commit sexual acts on children that would land everyone else behind bars for life. But in the Church, they say they are sorry and then move to another Church where they can continue to take advantage of Children.NOT all catholic churches are like this and NOT all catholic’s feel that way either.It’s just the one’s with the big mouths, money and power do. That is the real shame, they give the good people a bad name in the name of their God!God is ashamed of them and their actions, but the church is NOT!! The religious right has sold their mortal sole for the false proms of power, and GOD will dam them for their false actions.

  • A.Lincoln

    The Republicans are famous for having a long memory when the Democrats transgress, and a very short one when they commit the same sins. Case in point, Bill Clinton’s adultery is damned for all eternity to the GOP, but Hyde,Gingrich,Livingston,Vitter,Craig,McCain’s, etc.etc… adultery is either forgotten, or forgiven. Amen.

  • trippin

    “Its real simple. Wright stepped up his rhetoric while Hagee apologized and is taking steps to clarify and moderate his speech.”It’s even simpler than that. Hypocrisy and right wing political advocacy are no strangers to Donahue and the so-called “Catholic League,” the Archie Bunker set among Catholics.

  • candide

    Bill Donahue is a thug, an integrist Catholic (which in the European context means on the way to Fascism if not already there). Donahue’s ilk loved Franco and understood that Hitler was trying to save them from Bolshevism.

  • map529

    It should not surprise anyone–the Catholic Church like any other religion is intolerant. Catholics and other Christians stood by for years as slavery existed–many “God-fearing” people used the Bible to justify slavery–quoting even Christ’s teachings on how to treat one’s slaves. They do the same with same-sex marriage. So, it is no real wonder that it would easily forgive one of its kind, even if the bigotry is directed toward them. They can understand that kind of hatred–it’s kindred. But God forbid we cross the line and have any semblance of racial achievment. That is even more anathema to the Christians than some unfortunate comment directed against the Catholic church by one of its own kind.

  • Dieterman

    Donahue’s alacrity in forgiving Hagee who has built a career on smearing the Catholic church was entirely predictable. The Catholic church is in an utterly demoralized state in this country now – as it should be and for reasons that go beyond the sexual abuse scandals – and his anti-Hagee campaign was clearly gaining no traction. Donahue decided to cut his losses or risk looking totally ineffectual.

  • Mike

    I thought that the WAPO had instituted this forum in an effort to reach out to religious believers after realizing that they decide elections. It is funny how it has become just another hate site where sophisticated secularists bash those silly ‘bible thumpers’.

  • irrelevantchurch

    More and more we are seeing how our so called Catholic Leaders are disconected form the real issues of the average catholic, the church continues to shoot itself on the foot and then ask why there are less and less people coming to mass, It is time to knock these morons off the pulpit…..

  • forgetful

    McCain did denouce antiCatholicism and Hagee’s remarks that were antiCatholic. Quite some time ago.While the Catholic is not the voice for all Catholics, NGO’s often speak for a group. Various groups speak for minorities, and a variety of other issues. The US has in many ways become a Socialist Democracy, groups represent us because without them a single voice is meaningless. If those of Catholic persausion wish to have a voice at all, they should be more active in groups such as the Catholic League. It is modern society.

  • Fuji

    Welcome all anti-Catholic bigots! Here’s your chance to spew more venom at a 2,000 year old faith and institution that you do not understand!

  • brooklynbridge

    The more you understand “Holy Mother”, the more you detest her!

  • Scott

    Here is more evidence from Catholics for Choice of what Mr. Arroyo so eloquently speaks.

  • Dustin

    “Please note that an unjust war is just as intrinsically evil as an abortion.”WOW. Did the author of this article make this statement up all by himself, because it is definitely NOT what the church teaches.

  • Scott

    Here is more evidence from Catholics for Choice of what Mr. Arroyo so eloquently speaks.

  • Vincent DiCarlo

    Mr Donohue did not make a special case out of this. His organization regularly denounces insults and slanders against Catholics, and routinely demands an apology or retraction. When one is offered, he generally accepts it and moves on. This seems preferable to me to the more prevalent current practice of parsing every expression of regret, insisting that it be reformulated and repeated endlessly to satisfy some undefined standard of what constitutes a “proper” apology, and then deciding that no apology is sufficient. Graciously accepting an apology or retraction and forgiving a verbal offense when there is no other reparation that can be made seems to be the right thing to do under most circumstances. Restoring trust requires more, but that is not what accepting an apology is about. We are not being asked to vote for Mr Hagee, simply to stop throwing certain of his past and publicly regretted statements back in his face.

  • El Cid

    Mr. Stevens-Arroyo’s pique at the Catholic League seems boils down to this: if you’re not advocating the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops’ social reform, you’re not legitimate. I agree that Donahue can be a firebrand. And I don’t always agree with him. But when public figures (be they politicos or preachers) insult the Catholic Church, I’m glad he’s there. And let’s not fool each other: it’s an election year, the Catholic vote is in play, and so Donahue plays a prominent role in the political mix.He’s also irked that Donahue’s “venomous and unyielding denunciation of Catholics who support Senator Obama for president.” Granted, there are Catholics of good conscience who believe that Obama will advance the social issues Catholic feel strongly about. I would hardly term that “Hitlerian.” But it is true that Obama’s stance on abortion and gay marriage run counter to Church teachings, and Catholics who support Obama must reconcile this moral divided house.Just because the Catholic League concerns itself primarily with “abortion, embryonic stem cell research and tax dollars to Catholic schools” doesn’t make it any less worthy than groups focusing on the other social issues he mentions. The first two, especially, are “major social justice issues,” because they deal with the fundamental dignity of the human person and deserve a thorough discourse driven by Catholic teaching–as does repeal of the death penalty. While it is plain that John Paul II and Benedict XVI did and do oppose the Iraq war, I think Stevens-Arroyo glosses over the politics of the Roman Curia, which, under an ailing pope, did not properly work out an exegesis on the issue. But be in no doubt that Benedict XVI will not join with the “out now” factions in the United States. In accepting the prevailing conditions, his focus will be on how to protect lives during the continued U.S. occupation and after.However, the statement, “in political matters, therefore, Catholic voters are allowed to sort out the set of issues that they consider most in accord with the Gospel. It is a lot like an individual going to a cafeteria and choosing among the various dishes while watching dietary restrictions,” is fundamentally flawed. First, the Gospel is not a political manifesto, and therefore should not be as an individual’s interpretive overlay for electoral choices. The Gospel contains eternal truths for living a life in conformity to God. Thus, Catholics can use it to help with a discernment of the reasoning that, ultimately, drives a political platform.Catholics need to understand this crucial distinction, for it is a determinant in the course of our democracy. The campaigns of Abraham Lincoln provide an excellent historical example of this concept. Lincoln’s point was that certain issues (in his day, slavery) stray outside the acceptable moral framework of democracy.Catholics would do well to review this history, and do especially well in reading St. Augustine’s writings on making the city of man more like the city of God.

  • Vincent DiCarlo

    Mr Donohue did not make a special case out of this. His organization regularly denounces insults and slanders against Catholics, and routinely demands an apology or retraction. When one is offered, he generally accepts it and moves on. This seems preferable to me to the more prevalent current practice of parsing every expression of regret, insisting that it be reformulated and repeated endlessly to satisfy some undefined standard of what constitutes a “proper” apology, and then deciding that no apology is sufficient. Graciously accepting an apology or retraction and forgiving a verbal offense when there is no other reparation that can be made seems to be the right thing to do under most circumstances. Restoring trust requires more, but that is not what accepting an apology is about. We are not being asked to vote for Mr Hagee, simply to stop throwing certain of his past and publicly regretted statements back in his face.

  • Scott

    The Catholic League is absolutely in bed with the GOP, and not even the entire party, but the most right-wing conservative part of the party. A new report from Catholics for Choice out just this week, and featured in an article on RHRealityCheck.org, details the history of abuse by the Catholic League and reveal Mr. Donohue for the bully he is.

  • chamaco38

    Dustin – the killing of an unborn baby to you is capital offense, but let the baby come out, give it a couple of years (if it has the ill fate of being born in 2008 in Iraq) then it’s fair game for murder. I like you’re moral relativism.

  • M K

    He’s right.

  • dcp

    “(Please note that an unjust war is just as intrinsically evil as an abortion.)” OMG, a writer for the Washington Post was allowed to say that abortion is evil. Wow, the press is truly becoming free. Either that or he’s saying that an unjust war is not evil at all, and we all know he’s not saying that. Well done, Washington Post, well done.

  • HaveItYourWay

    Catholics, who are faithful to their Church’s teaching, don’t have an option this year. They can’t vote, because there is no pro-life candidate …

  • dcp

    “(Please note that an unjust war is just as intrinsically evil as an abortion.)” OMG, a writer for the Washington Post was allowed to say that abortion is evil. Wow, the press is truly becoming free. Either that or he’s saying that an unjust war is not evil at all, and we all know he’s not saying that. Well done, Washington Post, well done.

  • dcp

    “(Please note that an unjust war is just as intrinsically evil as an abortion.)” OMG, a writer for the WaPo was allowed to say that abortion was evil. Either that or he’s saying that an unjust war is not evil at all, and we all know that he is not saying such. Perhaps the press is truly becoming free. Well done, WaPo, well done.

  • Marc Edward

    About time – what a well written piece!

  • 001DC

    “(Please note that an unjust war is just as intrinsically evil as an abortion.)” OMG, a writer for the WP was allowed to say that abortion was evil. Either that or he is trying to say that an unjust was is not evil at all, and we all know that he is not trying to say such. The press may truly be free after all. Well done, WP, well done.

  • Marc Edward

    About time – what a well written piece!

  • Anonymous

    The numerous posts referring to a report from Catholics for Choice featured in an article on RHRealityCheck.org, convinced me to go read this report.The first sentence in the report convinced me not to bother reading it.”Most American Catholics would look at you blankly if you asked them to enumerate the number of times in their lives they had experienced anti-Catholic sentiment.”They have only to read some of the forum posts on this article to see anti-Catholic sentiment. Indeed, most forums that discuss any issue such as same-sex marriage or abortion there are usually a variety of anti-Catholic posts.The report goes on to smear the Catholic League involvement in issues such as abortion and homsexuality and school choice. The report goes further and ridicules several cases of the Catholic League to stand up against religious intolerance, and antiCatholicism in particular.The Catholic is correct, the report is not.On a VH1 ad on New York City buses with Madonna (singer) next to Madonna with a caption “VH1, the difference between you and your parents.” Similar ads with racist, or same-sex reprecussions would be criticised as well. There is a failure to recognize that freedom of religion includes the right to practice that religion in daily life, not just the right to attend a church of your choice. It is the practice of religion in daily life that is being attacked and that is what true freedom of religion is.

  • Garak

    It’s all politics. The CDL is run by right-wing Catholics who think Vatican II was a mistake. If McCain was pro-choice, it’d be another story.

  • George

    I could care less what the Catholic league thinks or dishes out about moral guidence. I was baptised catholic and raised catholic along with attaining 22 years of catholic education. The catholic religion is on hallow ground when it comes to providing a moral compass. Why don’t they turn over “all” the priest pedophiles to the legal authorities? Until they do, “people in glass houses should not throw stones.” All catholics should vote their heart rather than what your religion dictates. For once, catholics use your head, you know the lump that sits two feet above your posterior. All you catholics gave us George Bush for two terms. Quit frankly, any catholic who voted for Bush twice should not be allowed to vote for life. What a bunch of losers. Clean up your own house before you start preaching to others about what is good, moral and righteous for our country.

  • John Wariner

    The hooker and pimp are in bed together. Nothing unusual about that; it’s politics.

  • ed

    I would appreciate the Post digging into the Catholic League and Donahue and tell readers all about their findings. I don’t know anyone who is a member of the Catholic League or who has been asked to join. I’m not aware of any credentials of Donahue’s that would suggest he has any authority / expertise to speak for anyone other than himself. My guess is that the Catholic League is is Donahue, and Donahue only. In other words, Donahue and the Catholic League are a fraud.

  • ed

    I would appreciate the Post digging into the Catholic League and Donahue and tell readers all about their findings. I don’t know anyone who is a member of the Catholic League or who has been asked to join. I’m not aware of any credentials of Donahue’s that would suggest he has any authority / expertise to speak for anyone other than himself. My guess is that the Catholic League is is Donahue, and Donahue only. In other words, Donahue and the Catholic League are a fraud.

  • ed

    I would appreciate the Post digging into the Catholic League and Donahue and tell readers all about their findings. I don’t know anyone who is a member of the Catholic League or who has been asked to join. I’m not aware of any credentials of Donahue’s that would suggest he has any authority / expertise to speak for anyone other than himself. My guess is that the Catholic League is is Donahue, and Donahue only. In other words, Donahue and the Catholic League are a fraud.

  • Judy-in-TX

    Thank you, Mr. Stevens-Arroyo, for this insightful article.

  • HMSDC

    I encourage the Post and Newsweek to do an expose on this “Catholic League”. I would love to see if it is endorsed by and authorized by Rome to represent the church in any capacity.As a lifelong Catholic, I have never heard of this organization. Who are its members?

  • Judy-in-TX

    Thank you, Mr. Stevens-Arroyo, for this insightful article.

  • Enemy Of The State

    Apparently, all that is required to speak for one billion people is arrogance and a post office box.

  • Tom

    The Catholic League has no clout in the Catholic Church that is worth anything. Donahue is not ordained and is not an authority on Catholic teaching. He is one guy with an opinion, and frankly, I wish he would shut up. He is not a leader of anything remotely Catholic. He goes on his crusades and rants and splits the Church which, at its essence, is about communion. The more that this sham politician is outed in the public for his ego, the better. Good article.

  • quote_man

    “Anti Catholicism is the anti semitism of the left” – Arthur Schlesinger Jr. We might as well place evangelicals right up there with the left in their hatred of Catholics. If you are going to complain about the Catholic League, why not complain about the ACLU, NAACP, or the ADL.In modern times, Catholic are the target of much more OVERT discrimination than any other minority group.Good for the Catholic League to point this out – esp in the popular media.Media depictions of the Church in movies and TV rivals Hitlers propaganda against the Jews – i.e. both are shown as evil, secretive, perverted, and looking to control the world…Watch Sin City, the Da Vinci Code, the Golden Compass, V for Vendetta etc. etc. – to see some good anti Catholic propaganda.

  • jw

    “an unjust war is just as intrinsically evil as an abortion”This needs more play. If the bishops in the U.S. knew their doctrine well and were consistent in the application of doctrine, they’d be just as willing to deny communion to politicians who voted for Iraq war funding (direct material cooperation with an intrinsic evil) as politicians who refuse to condemn abortion rights (but who have never paid for, procured, or provided an abortion).No politician who supports unjust wars would be allowed to speak at a Catholic University (hmmm…) just as no politician who supports abortions rights.

  • Simple

    Canyon 1 is a prime example of mindless bigotry.Canyon 1 is a very small, very hate-filled creature.He and Hagee belong together, spewing venom at all those who are able to think.

  • Jack

    Thanks to all the crazy and bigoted people out there that hate the catholic church – that alone is a witness to the church’s sanctity and sanity! As a catholic I can vote for whoever I please – it is my civic duty to vote and I will. Like many people I have reservations about all three candidates – Hillary seems to be quite a bit brighter than the two men and she seems to be despised on account of it by men and women alike.

  • Mr. Z in cretinville

    Mr. Z:You are another direct pipeline to God individual who believes he can interpret the will of God. Also, the cathedrals in Europe were not built by Black slave labor you idiot.

  • tk

    The catholic league means nothing to me as a practicing catholic. My compass is rooted in the belief of the holy spirit. For those who have a need for leadership or in doubt read Thomas Merton.

  • pv

    Catholic leadership smells worse than the krapper.There is NO moral authority to be had anywhere in the Catholic Church?This is the group that institutionalized child molesting and still feels no remorse, other than the loss of money.what a sickening bunch!

  • canyon1

    the comments of simple about Canyon1 appear on this page.but we cannot see any input by Canyon1.Have we missed something here,or are the Simple comments preferred?

  • candide

    Schlesinger did not say that anti-Catholicism was the anti-Semitism of the Left. It was Peter Viereck.

  • PV

    quote_man: I’m a Catholic who is deeply ashamed of what we’ve become, not a bigot.We peed away any moral high ground by moving sick priests around.deal with it.

  • Canyon1

    my comments were input at about 1.48 to you.Have you had difficulty with them,or is there some political problem?No adverse input on my part.

  • Julie B.

    Scott, not only is the CDL in bed with the GOP, so are the Knights of Columbus. The Supreme Knight, or whatever he is called, formerly worked for the Reagan administration. If you recall in 2004, there was a brouhaha about why George Bush was invited to speak at their convention but John Kerry was not. The reason given was that the KofC only invited heads of state. We were Catholic at the time, and my husband a Knight. He did some research on-line and discovered that going back to Calvin Coolidge, the only Democratic president ever invited to speak at the KofC convention was John Kennedy. This may have been because Kennedy himself was a Fourth Degree Knight so they could hardly refuse him.2004 showed that Catholics do vote for both parties because Bush only narrowly defeated Kerry in the Catholic vote. It is the hierarchy and the organizations which are strongly tied to the hierarchy who are in bed with the GOP.

  • quote_man

    PV:Don’t let your self hatred obscure the larger picture.It was 4% of priests and a couple of idiotic bishops – however, the VAST majority of priests and religious do hard and good work.Its called context – try it some time.Here is some more context – abuse rates are at 10% in public schools and at 8% in jewish and protestant congregations…

  • SteveCO

    Donahue is a flaming nutbag. I’ve seen the guy on TV when someone disagrees on his medieval stupidity of a church, and the guy truly loses it: eyes bug out, face reddens, spit flecks cover his lips. He goes *out of his mind*, because he can’t allow the smallest slight against his Church go unanswered.I get the biggest laughs listening to him. If this hater of anything nonCatholic is a McCain supporter, that’s GOOD. Pychos for McCainGood bumper sticker.

  • Ryan Haber

    Mr. Stevens-Arroyo,I did a little research and in point of fact, the Catholic League did not “wait until February of 2008 to become angered by Hagee’s career of bigotry over two decades.” Just by going on their website and conducting a search for “Hagee”, I found an article in the May 1997 Annual Report about him, so we know that Mr. Donahue’s concern goes back at least that far. Of course, more and greater interest is generated when the person is trotted out in a presidential dog-and-pony show as a backer for a candidate. That’s only natural. When it becomes public that such a backer has a long and vicious history of attacking the Church, whatever is a self-styled defender of the Church to do? Ignore it because addressing it might help a candidate he prefers anyway? That’s ridiculous.Why surrender so meekly? Is that what accepting an apology is, Mr. Donahue? Surrendering? Or do you object to the weakness of Hagee’s lame apology? Mr. Donahue has a right to let the issue go if he believes that it has been adequately addressed, and that further address will yield no benefit.You cite Mr. Donahue’s emphasis on abortion, embryonic stem-cell research, etc., among the panoply of issues in our day as the determinant factor of how he arranges his political alignment. Fair enough. One might also criticize you for quite the same arrangement in reverse. Have you not emphasized opposition to the war, universal health care, etc., in the arrangement of your political sympathies? You are, I presume from you various stated sympathies, a registered Democrat, are you not?“Apparently, these major social justice teachings of the Church are not Catholic enough for the Catholic League.”That’s either a cheap shot or a very ignorant statement, Mr. Stevens-Arroyo. The Catholic League’s principle focus is to see that public slander and machinations against the Catholic Church are addressed publicly. Mr. Donahue, the primary motor force in the Catholic League, also has political views that he brings with him wherever he goes, as the rest of us do. They are not necessarily Catholic as such, but nor are they diametrically opposed, nor generally speaking contrary to the Catholic Faith. But his purpose isn’t to promote social teachings of the Church. His purpose is to call to task people who malign without truth the Catholic Church. Saying that he doesn’t spend enough time or energy promoting social justice teachings is akin to criticizing the Kiwanis for not sending missionaries to Africa.Mr. Stevens-Arroyo, your choice of image for Catholic politics, is an interesting one, precisely because you take on as a the image of the cafeteria that is one used as a derisive. You then argue that picking-and-choosing from the cafeteria isn’t wrong, it’s only important to realize that both left and right do so. There’s a bit of disingenuousness here, further, because at that point in your post, you have just finished criticizing Mr. Donahue for picking from the conservative side of the buffet. Your approach wasn’t hard to anticipate given your previous posts, in which you seem to pick and choose not only among political parties, but among Catholic doctrines.You are correct that the political world, divided into left and right, is not easy terrain for a Catholic to navigate. That is because adherence to the doctrines of Christ is not defined by the shifting world of political alliances and cultural orientations. Without budging an inch on a moral issue, the Church might in one time and place be considered “conservative” and in another “liberal.” And because it strives to make its moral stances coherent to an underlying philosophy that (at least tries) to make coherent sense of the world, it is going to cross lines in a society where a different philosophical outlook, shaped in very different terms, holds sway.To say that a Catholic might be justified in registering as a Democrat is one thing, and true enough. We are not supposed to hide from evil in the world (or within political parties – and all of them err), but confront and convert it. It is quite another thing to say or to imply that we are justified in being pro-abortion (pro-“choice”). There is no justification for condoning deliberate intervention to end innocent human life. Moreover, it is inconsistent with everything it means to be Christian and Catholic, and to hold that view while claiming to be Christian or Catholic can only mean not knowing what some of those terms mean. There is no justification for entering into an alliance beneficial to such views. Lastly, in balancing our varying concerns we must be careful before saying that this issue is more important than that. Issues gain their importance based on an objective order and not on our personal preferences or felt interests. Some issues are, consequently, more grave than others. It stands to reason for example, and as our bishops have been affirming with increasing clarity, that the right to live at least logically precedes the right not to be shot or bombed (say, in a war).Mr. Stevens-Arroyo, even while registering in a political party, we must be very careful, as Christians, to avoid overly immersing ourselves in its ethos and values. It is not safe enough simply to pick the party that seems closest matched with our vision of the Church’s teachings, or our vision of those Church teachings that we feel are important. Even if registering as a Democrat, I must say to myself, and mean, “Yeah, but…” and never give my soul to them along with my donation. Same goes for registering Republican, or Libertarian, or wherever. There will come a time when Christ and the GOP or the DNC will be at odds if for no other reason than that they think in different terms, and we must know with whom we stand at that moment, and prepare for it in advance. We cannot lose ourselves in the politics of the world, because then we will be lost. Political parties are like lions’ dens. Only Christ can be our light into whichever lion’s den He calls us.God bless.

  • Mark

    Jack wrote”Thanks to all the crazy and bigoted people out there”"Obama has the misfortune of marrying a woman who likes to talk”I guess you were thanking yourself?

  • cresttwo

    Face it, the Church didn’t ‘move priests’ around who had molested children.

  • canyon1

    we have adverse comments against my name on this site,not recorded against input by me.They were made by someone called “simple”.Do you wish me to consider legal address against simple or against you,as the case may be?

  • dcp

    “(Please note that an unjust war is just as intrinsically evil as an abortion.)” OMG, a writer for the WP was allowed to say that abortion is evil. Either that or he’s saying that an unjust war is not evil at all, and we all know that he is not saying such. Perhaps the press is truly becoming free now. Well done, WP, well done.

  • No. VA

    Donahue may be a bombastic egotist; but he’s my bombastic egotist.The Catholic Church has much on which it can be criticized, but too often I’ve seen its critics not really know what they are talking about.Does the Church need Donahue to protect it? Not really. Does he help it when he becomes an apologian? Probably not. But his presence and reaction at least requires attackers to have more substance than simple bigotry. When they are just bigots, they get called on it.Better to have a Donahue around, than to have nobody at all.

  • dcp

    OK, I know this happens a lot to other people, but it takes a long time for a message to post so for some reason my message was posted ten billion times. That was indeed a mistake. I don’t know how it happened. Apologies all around.

  • Kase

    Napoleon the Great said(let’s get rid of religion)

  • Roy

    Catholics attacking each other with simple bigotry – how entertaining.

  • Curious

    To Concerned the Christian Now Liberated,I certainly take issue with your statements. Presenting items as fact that you simply do not know is dangerous at best.And I’ll give you one piece of advice, not everyone who labels themselves as of God are of God.Do your own discovering.

  • mhr

    Hagee apologized for his blunder. Donovan accepted the apology. Unlike Wright Hagee is no anti-American racist. Wright has been producing his anti-white and anti-American bile for 20 years and has not apologized. His protege Mr. Obama was a member of Wright’s church and close to the reverend. If Arroyo can’t understand the differences between the two situations, perhaps he should take more English lessons.

  • canyon1

    As I said at 1.41 above !put out my mesage.we will be taking this further towards discrimation reporting

  • Kevin Morgan

    Hagee’s apology and the Catholic League’s immediate acceptance was a politically orchestrated move. Both Hagee and CL have a common goal which is to elect Republicans. This is a black mark on the American Catholic Church as they are partially responsible for the election of the undeniably evil president Bush. I quit going to the Catholic Church because of this in 2004. They brought pamphlets right into the church and told people who to vote for. It was an apostasy that cost the church credibility and put them in league with fascism and protestant extremists like Hagee who have nothing but for contempt for Catholics outside of using them to further their own political goals. Catholics need to protest the Church being used as a Republican tool. The Catholic League is corrupted by politics.

  • TWstroud

    Catholic League statements in support of George Bush cannot be distinguished from those of conservative theologians supporting Hitler during the 1933 elections. Check out the book, HOLY REICH. Then look at the DVD FAITH IN THE WHITE HOUSE. There are many disturbing similarities between Bush-Rove religious strategy and National Socialism’s attempt to ‘unify the Confessionals’. Thanks God the vast majority of Catholics in this country are ‘bad’. They value and fight for personal freedom and responsibility over blind faith.

  • Keen Observer

    Carroll O’Connor made millions back in the 70′s for playing the role of Archie Bunker.Today we have Bill Donohue playing that same role for the paltry sum of $300K/yr. A bargain if there ever was one.

  • lg

    As a Catholic ..the Catholic League does not represent me… they claim to be Pro-Choice but after a child is born they are willing to send that same child into a war where the chances of that person getting killed or seriously injured are great… Supporting McCain is clearly a vote that is not well thought out… he cares about America through his eyes and the eyes of his millionaire friends but he clearly is not concerned about the poorest of us who have to live paycheck to paycheck.. a vote for McCain is a disgrace and a setback to the forward progress of America

  • Chicago1

    I too was amazed when this nobody said “he” accepted an apology for an insult to the Church. Who indeed is the Catholic League to accept such apologies. There’s this little guy, see, called Benedict. He speaks for the Church. Then there’s the rest of us Catholic voters. We ARE the Church.

  • speed123

    The Catholic League takes on both the hard left (Bill Maher etc) and the hard right (Haggee etc.).Both the extreme right (only faith) and the hard right (only scientific materialism) hate the Catholic tradition and this makes me proud to be a Catholic.Catholicism = faith and reason.Balance, proportion and consistency =Anti-preemptive war, anti-abortion, anti-death penalty.

  • DWayne

    Who really cares what a cult of statue worshiping homosexual pedephiles think anyway?

  • TJ

    Yes Catholics, fight. Gooood. Gooooood.

  • David Flannigan

    The Catholic League has no official connection to the Catholic Church. None-Zip-Nada. The Pope and the US Conference of Catholic Bishops speak officially for the Church, not Bill Donohue or any of the GOP hacks that comprise CL’s “Board of Directors” (Brent Bozell, Linda Chavez, Dinesh D’Souza, Kate O’Bierne, etc etc) The Catholic League is basically just another tax-exempt arm of the RNC whose sole purpose is to steer the “Catholic Vote” into the Republican column. We the People are subsidizing this sham with our tax dollars.

  • Concerned The Christian Now Liberated

    Curious,And somehow you are one God’s all-knowledgeable creations or are you suffering from the Three B Syndrome, being Bred, Born and Brainwashed in the “fems” of Christianity?

  • holy cow

    The Vatican is the seat of Satan. Catholics should read the Bible and see for themselves why for centuries, the Vatican HINDERED them to read the Bible.The WH*RE OF BABYLON will burn as the Bible prophesied.

  • holy cow

    Mary, The Queen Of Heaven Many Roman Catholics , if not all, believe that Mary is the “Queen of Heaven”. The idea may have originated from the fact that since Jesus came from her womb, therefore she is the “Mother of God” and henceforth the “Queen of Heaven”. Even Davao City Archbishop Fernando Capalla declared in a local tv broadcast that “Mary is the Queen of Heaven”. With him pronouncing it, no doubt, this is a Roman Catholic doctrine. Many Roman Catholic beliefs are false because many of them are based on wrong presumptions. Here are the reasons why Mary is not the Mother of God. First, God is eternal. He has no source and has no ending. God created Mary and it should remain that way. The devil wants to turn it around and voila ! God now has a mother. The Eternal God is now under the “dictates” of a “mother”. The Almighty God will judge us purely by our own merits and not by how the “mother” will intercede for us. The real question is ” what is our relationship with God and God alone?” Forget about Mary. Like us she will have her own appointment with God. In II Corinthians 5:10, Apostle Paul said, “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ…” . The phrase “we must all” pertains to him (Paul), us and certainly Mary also. As what the Parable of the Ten Virgins suggests, she too can’t share her oil. It means that she cannot intercede. Second, the Spirit of Jesus Christ existed even before Mary was born. In John 8:57-58, it says ” Then said the Jews unto Him, thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, verily, verily, I say unto you, before Abraham was, I am. “In Colossians 1:17 Paul said ” And He is before all things, and by Him all things consist.”Not only He was before Abraham, He was also before the existence of the universe and the creator of it as well.To give us a glimpse of His power, Apostle John described his encounter with Jesus in Heaven in Revelation 1:16-17 ” … His countenance was as the sun shineth in His strength. And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead.”Mary is really only one of the children of God and to distort this order by making her the Mother of God is just pure blasphemy.This “Queen of Heaven” Doctrine is really not new. In the time of the prophet Jeremiah, the people of Israel worshipped her. In Jeremiah 7:18, God said ” The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.”In verse 20, He continues “… behold, mine anger and my fury shall be poured out upon this place…”Thirdly, Jesus never called Mary as mother. He called her “woman”. (John 2:4 , John 19:26)I wonder how many times the Lord will have to ask this question for people to wake up from their trance. It’s a pity that everytime a person prays the rosary, He’s not only doing a vain act of repetitious prayer but in so doing, he also invites the anger and fury of God. If they’ll finally meet God face to face, I doubt if they will hear that question again if they will mention her name in His presence or would it be the painful parting words “depart from me, ye cursed into everlasting fire”. I hope not, and I hope they will listen.

  • Gerard

    Holy Cow,You are giving cows a bad name with your hysterical bible thumping. Nobody gives a damn what you believe. Now go back to your padded cell.

  • Juan McAmnesty

    After losing members in the USA due to unproved birth control & Scandal the Catholic church is now making a comeback due to the millions of Illegal Aliens pouring across our borders. Its an ideal plan, let the Catholics Latinos pour across our open borders and Breed like Rabbits while forcing American tax payers to pay an average of 20k per year for each one to provide education, medical care and welfare for them. That is why the Pope spoke about taking care of Immigrants and wants blanket amnesty for them and why all Catholic Churches are for breaking the law and encourage & protecting Illegal Aliens and open Borders! When the next president gives the 20 to 30 million mostly uneducated Illegal Aliens citizenship alone with chain migration there will be 100,s of millions of new fast breeding, educating hating, criminally inclined , welfare loving Catholic Latino citizens and the Nation will soon join the Third World as they breed us into poverty, like they have Mexico and Latin American. But the Democrat Politicians will have the welfare votes and further their Socialist Agenda, the Republican Politicians an unlimited supply of nearly slave labor for their Pay Masters in the Corporations and Businesses and the Church more millions of Catholics to preach their dogma, past the collection plate, and lots of children for the priests to play with. The only losers are current American Citizens & their progeny and either Party or the Catholic church gives a damn about them!

  • Anonymous

    blah blah I HATE CATHOLICS!!!blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

  • Terra Gazelle

    Clearly, I am just asking as I am not a Christian and to me lieing is wrong for no other reason as it lessens my own honor. If you can not tell the truth, or at least make sure what you are saying is the truth, your word is worthless..and since that is all we have to cling to, our own honor,it is all that is of value.So do some research and make sure that what you spread is truth and not lies.terra

  • Tony Gillotte

    What a fine mess Mr. Donahue has created with his ready and politically motivated acceptance of Mr. Hagee’s regrets.It seems to me, as someone who has lived abroad for the past 18 years and working as a reporter, that the various political groups, whether religiously affiliated or not, have taken their rights to freedom of speech to far. Just as there is no right to cry fire in a movie theater, there should be no right to use language to defame another individual or organization. That seems elementary in most cases, but in the current political scene all these boundaries of decency are being tested and pushed back.Just what is in it for Mr. Hagee to have called the Catholic church names? Doesnt his very own Christianity impinge of his judgment well enough for him to know when to draw the line of decency.For heavens sake, the spectacle of dragging religion into politics has been warned by no less than the founding fathers for whatever that may mean to an individual like Mr. Hagee. Yet, the sad fact is that his parishioners are probably sympathetic to his catcalls since they might see the popes efforts to make amends with other Christian groups as singularly off putting.They may not want in their deepest of hearts to have peace between religious organizations. They may not believe that any but them loves Israel in the right, suffocating way.What drives these people to behave this way in the year 2008. Arent there cooler minds out there who can tamp down these phony distinctions that seem to mean so much to some types of Christians?Surely there are leaders who shouldbe coming forth with the usual soothing words to ameliorate the damage done. Or is there just to much money for John McCains campaign at stake?Ah, there is the rub.Tony Gillotte

  • speed123

    Holy Cow is a fundamentalist protestant and one loves to quote scripture; however, while the Immaculate Conception cannot be proven by Scripture alone, it cannot be rule out on the basis of Scripture, either. This goes for many, many other theological matters…your “sola Scriptura” is a false doctrine. There is much that is true and holy and God-given outside of the Bible, as well.

  • Westexacan

    A vote for McCain is a vote for four more years of shame. God help my Grandchildren.

  • Charles

    I’m not a big fan of organizations like The Catholic League, but this was an unfair attack on Bill Donahue. I think his response cleared up much of Anthony M. Stevens-Arroyo’s ignorance on many of his remarks.This column, “Catholic America,” is nothing more than a launching attack on the Catholic Church from within. Stevens-Arroyo, who says he went to Catholic seminary, obviously does not know the first things about priestly celibacy, women ordination, birth control and a number of issues. Readers have demonstrated in their responses of why the Church teaches the ways it does. Instead of just voicing an opinion, Stevens-Arroyo masquerades as a Catholic to destroy from within what he hates. This column is definitely unworthy to have the name “Catholic America.”

  • George

    Ah !! It’s nice to be a non-believer after reading all this crap. No wonder so many people have ulcers.

  • A Catholic

    I am a Catholic, and nobody speaks for me, not even the Pope. Having established that, I take no offense from Mr. Hagee’s remarks. It is not up to me to judge him. A more just ruling will come in time, and I am afraid of it. Would I sit in the same table as Mr. Hagee? Sure, he is just as a human being as Bin Laden. And with this statement, I am not denigrating Mr. Hagree nor Bin Laden.

  • Ralph

    oooh Canyon1 is considering “legal address” and will be taking further action, oooohhh gaaaa boooga! – we should be all shaking in our Nazi American jackboots. Maybe this crackpot will have his Catholic buddy Novak out another CIA agent or have Dick Cheney read my email to my 85 year old mother.

  • Roy

    Is Donahue the same guy I saw go berserk on TV over the chocolate statue of Jesus? I thought he was having a coronary. His eyes dig bug out and his face was the color of boiled shrimp. His angry, emotional comments were crude and immature just like Archie Bunker and it was amusing that he appropriately speaks for the likes of O’Reilly, Hannity and Novak.

  • Earl C, Virginia Beach

    This whole episode just shows how politics makes strange bedfellows. I was really waiting to see what happened to the religious right if Mitt Romney were nominated. The Mormons are recognized as a cult by Southern Baptists. Like I say, politics makes strange bedfellows. Time to put religion back where it belongs. To explore a person’s faith may have some merits. However, I am really more interested what a person’s politics are as they affect the American people as a whole and me specifically. Based on recent elections, one would think that Christians believe in doing more for the rich, doing less for the poor, giving no one a helping hand, and fighting wars. Compassionate conservatism is best exemplified in the response to Katrina – a disaster that seems to have no end. Modern day conservatism is “borrow and spend.” It is all designed to buy votes. Borrow so that we do not have to raise taxes so that they can spend the unfathomable amounts of money to keep the well-heeled happy.

  • invictus

    Karl Marx said, “Religion is the opium of the masses.” Quite clearly America is in need of serious drug rehab before this election or it would appear that we are going to get landed with more hell on earth!

  • jim filyaw

    i don’t know bill donohue and from what i’ve read about him from some pretty believable sources, i don’t intend to investigate further (brain cells are too precious). but i do know john hagee–not personally, but there are hundreds of thousands of john hagees, wherever protestant fundamentalism is preached. i grew up a southern baptist and i heard it until i headed for the door. no, i didn’t convert, but neither do i darken the doors of that denomination any longer. the contempt for popery among my former brethren is visceral and historic, and it hasn’t changed with hagee’s convenient mea culpa. hagee’s new found tolerance is about as sincere as donohue’s charity. these two narrow minded bigots deserve each other. we don’t.

  • j.a.m.

    Sorry, Buster, you’re all wet as per usual.Donahue’s shenanigans are as nothing next to the pathetic attempts by Obama’s moonbat adorers to draw an equivalence between Hagee and Rev. Wright. There’s no comparison between an endorser who happens to subscribe to an overwrought eschatology and a beloved mentor who happens to have a toxic sociopathic streak.There is no Catholic party, but the Democrats are the party of atheism, pornography, the abortion industry, destruction of the family, restrictions on religious expression, and a godless government monopoly on education. Some choice.

  • candide

    Priestly pedaphilia is the result of clerical celibacy. The celibacy rule encourages the wrong people to enter the priesthood and bars the right people. The wrong people are those afraid of heterosexual relations. They enter the priesthood as a sanctuary and they become abusers of young men and boys. I cannot guarantee that married priests would not molest boys but it is far less likely.

  • Anonymous

    Karl Marx said, “Religion is the opium of the masses.”andBarack Obama said, “(Midwesterners) cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

  • holy cow

    Beware of False ProphetsIn terms of occupancy, hell is much bigger than heaven coz many will go to that place of torment compared to those who will make it to heaven. One major factor why it is so is because of false religions or false prophets who propagate it. In Matthew 7:13-15 Jesus said “…wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction (Hell), and many there be which go in thereat; … strait (or limited in space) is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life (Heaven), and few there be that find it. Beware of false prophets which come to you in sheep’s clothing…”. The fact that God had said that many will go to hell and few to heaven just shows that these false prophets are much more effective in teaching their false doctrines than those who preach the true word of God. As a result, they have a much larger following. It is very disappointing that many religions today use the name of Jesus Christ and that its priests or preachers act like they are His servants but in truth are really servants of the devil. It is equally disappointing that many members of these churches are easily duped into believing what they falsely teach.Since the year 2001, four so called “Christian” nations have already legalized gay marriage. It’s quite amazing that four nations (The Netherlands, Belgium, Spain and Canada) legalized it in just a span of 4 years. Next year, there could be another two or more and before we know it, other “Christian” nations would be following their lead just like popcorn. The only thing to blame in here is their practiced religion.It should be noted that both Belgium and Spain are Catholic countries. Canada is 43% Catholic and 29% Protestant and most of its Protestant churches have linkups with the Catholic Church and other false religions thru its Ecumenical Movement. Their biggest protestant group, The United Church of Canada (UCC), previously stated that their church welcome “sexually active single adults, lesbian, gay and bisexual people into all aspects of the life and ministry of the Church”. It means that they see nothing wrong with people engaged in fornication, adultery and same sex unions. If we read the Bible, these are the same people God will burn in Hell. Clearly, there are two conflicting messages here — one from God and the other from the devil. Since their church unashamedly teach the devil’s doctrine, it’s more fitting that they should call their church as the United Devil’s Church of Canada. That way, it would clear up things and there will be no mixups. The Netherlands, on the other hand, has become a secular state which means most of its populace has no religious affiliation. In Massachusetts, which currently is the only state in the U.S that have legalized gay marriage, 54% of its populace is Catholic and still rising..This is just the cross-section of the kind of religions those people who supported gay marriage have. Most of them were Catholics, liberal Protestants that have linkups with other false religions and Secularists who are either aetheists or skeptics. All these religions or beliefs have one thing in common. They worship the same “God” but not the God in the Bible for in Romans 1:32 it states, “Who, knowing the judgment of God, that they who commit such things are worthy of death…”. When God speaks of death, He means everlasting hellfire. The people who approved of it never knew that they have stretched even wider what is already a very broad pathway to Hell. Most probably, they too are breezing thru that road themselves and on their way to destruction. No more stoplights for the lights or religions they attend to like the UCC have been signalling them to push on and run on full speed.False religions are not that really hard to detect. Jesus said that “ye will know them by their fruits”. So the next time another country, state or city legalizes gay marriage, examine what kind of religion those people who approved of it profess. And as sure as the sun rises from the east, those people would be either Catholic, liberal Protestants or Secularists. When God says beware, one should not take it lightly. In Luke 12:5 Jesus said, “But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear Him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear Him.” But what makes it more fearsome is the fact that it cannot be appealed like what other false religions want to suggest by teaching reincarnation or purgatory. The judgment of God is final and wherever He puts us in, Heaven or Hell, that would be permanent. The same is the fire and the worms crawling in one’s body. They too would be permanent. The worms won’t die and the fire won’t quench either. It really is a place of torment and it’s really very sad if some foolish religion would send somebody there.”Beware of false prophets”, said the Lord. I hope everybody would really ponder on this one.

  • candide

    RELIGION AS OPIUM OF THE MASSES. What did Marx mean? He meant that the suffering masses had no consolation or painkiller except religion. He didn’t criticize religion except as a false way of dealing with pain. Religion is indeed opium and not only of the masses. It appeals to many because they cannot cope. Unfortunately like dope it does more harm often than good.

  • candide

    Have you ever wondered why Fascism has been stronger in Catholic countries? Just listen to Bill Donohue and Pat Buchanan.

  • paul c

    Holy Cow, Candide,

  • vales

    Candide you lonely and bitter slag, get a new hobby – your anti Catholic screeds are getting old.If you are looking for wackos and bigots, look no further than your bathroom mirror…

  • Proud Catholic

    I guess it is true that the best defense (when you really have none) is an offense. Why does this criticism of Mr. Donohue spark so many to bring up Barak Obama? Mr. Obama did nothing to bring himself into this blog — so my guess is those who have introduced him, just look for an opportunity to do so.Mr. Donohue is an angry, hate-filled man. I feel sorry for him. I wish so much that he wouldn’t get so much attention because he paints such an ugly picture of Catholicism. He shows none of the love, compassion and humility of my Lord. He does not speak for me or any of my Catholic friends. He is a loud, blustering egomaniac. Like we don’t have enough of those!

  • Anonymous

    I love being Catholic — and I try very hard to be obedient to the Church and practice what our Lord teaches. I am grateful that on so many issues my Church, my specific pastor, and my fellow parishioners recognize and respect differences of opinion. Yes, there are some things that just are wrong — abortion being one of them Still, the reasons are not simple for why some find it an acceptable, but regrettable option. Denying them Communion also is wrong; it turns this sacred gift into a weapon & that is grossly inappropriate –especially when no one suggests denying it to those who support this so clearly immoral war, the death penalty, or fail to ensure our children are not neglected or abused.

  • the anonymous trucker

    Talking of elegance, how about;There is no God but no God.

  • Anonymous

    Catholicism does not have a political platform – it has values that most members (and citizens) agree with…and therefore dislike both Obama (abortion) and McCain (war monger).This is not to mention the millions in services (shelters, soup kitchens, hospitals, schools etc.) provided to both Catholics and non-Catholics.Perhaps you would like to ban all Catholics from the voting, Comrade?No other organization contributes on as large a scale to the benefit of society than the Catholic groups.If you were brave, you would open you bigoted eyes.

  • Concerned The Christian Now Liberated

    As all of us will, Jesus had a last supper but many historical Jesus studies indicate that no one really knows what happened at Jesus’ last supper or what was said if anything. His “promise” of sending the Holy Spirit is only found in the last gospel i.e. John’s gospel, the least historic of the four.363-. Jesus’ Supper Discourse: (1) John 13:31-17:26 wiki.faithfutures.org/index.php/363_Jesus_Supper_Discourse and wiki.faithfutures.org/index.php/016_Supper_and_Eucharist

  • vales

    Holy Cow is the poster formerly known as Spiderman2 and is a evangelical fundamentalist…you know, the ones who brought us the Iraq war and believe the world is 6000 years old…Very smart group!PS – the population explosions in the world are not in Catholic countries (China, India and Indonesia) – so try expanding your knowledge before continuing with your anti catholic propaganda and lies.

  • holy cow

    somebody wrote “Way to go Catholic League – keep those bigots on their toes – I will be donating this year!”Donate it directly to the people in need. If you donate it thru the catholic church or league, the devil will have a big cut of that money. Unless of course thatis your purpose. Knowingly or unknowingly, you’re a part of that BIG CATHOLIC CYCLE. Send in the money to keep the flames of hell burning.

  • holy cow

    China , although Godless tries to curb it’s population thru one-child policy. It may not be a good policy but it’s much less evil than the CATHOLIC CYCLE. India is a Hindu country. It may be a false religion but comparing it with Catholicism, I think Catholicism is more evil. At least they don’t distort the Words of Christ coz they haven’t heard of them. That gives them a cloak in Judgment Day.Indonesia is populous but still thry make efforts to curb they population.With Catholicism, BREED FAST AND THEN KILL FAST. ThEy oppose “abortion” just for a show and that they appear Godly – a trait similar to satan. Hagee made a FOOL of himself. Why would he apologize if he’s telling the truth?

  • vales

    Holy Cow (spiderman2),Evangelicals = KKK = theology of prosperity = snake oil sales men…You reject God-given reason and science (accepted by Catholic theology) for preachers in alligator shoes who have memorized the old testament…PS – to say that China’s one child policy and forced abortions etc. are not that bad….real quite an ignorant statement but, nothing new there from the holy rolling cow…

  • Pontiff

    The simple fact is that, abortion aside, Obama lives Catholic Christian values more than the bigot Hagee and his minions Bush and McCain. Bush’s “conversion of heart” was aimed solely at getting votes in South Carolina and the Bible Belt, and winning the support of Pat Robertson and Hagee. McCain is simply a fraud on religion.

  • paul c

    Holy Cow:

  • paul C

    Vales:

  • No. VA

    I find the censorship on this thread absloutely illogical, after reading the inane attacks on and in some cases equally inane defenses of The Church.Canyon1 may have sounded over the top in their threats to take action; but also I had a post “held” for review, which contained nothing offensive.If you ever have a post “Held” here, just accept it as a euphemism for ‘Your post is being thrown in the electronic trash.’If the post contained ‘key’ words which could be considered offensive and triggers automatic rejection by a filter, it’s beyond me what they were.Maybe the electronic censor needs to be serviced.

  • Jack Picknell

    I am dumbfounded. For a mainstream publication in the US Capitol, you might expect at least one reader to have a clue about Catholicism. Sadly that appears not to be the case.

  • Steve

    I can hardly see a comparison between Life and Humanity Dignity issues on the one hand, and all the sundry issues that may or may not be the best ways to achieve social justice that Mr. Stevens-Arroyo mentions, on the other. The Issue of Life and Human Dignity itself is more far reaching than a particular health care plan, or whether illegal immigrants (from Mexico, which is the only immigration issue currently being discussed of any magnitude) are allowed to stay in our country. Even if we catagorize correctly and say it is a Image of God vs. Social Justice issue, I still say the protection of human life wins out easily.

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