On Arun Gandhi

What decent person was not offended by Arun Gandhi’s comments about Jews? He was effectively saying that Judaism had violence … Continued

What decent person was not offended by Arun Gandhi’s comments about Jews? He was effectively saying that Judaism had violence and oppression at its heart. Any time an entire tradition or group is vilified, good people need to raise the alarm and stop the disease before it spreads.

Jews know this danger all too well. Unchecked anti-semitism in early 20th century Europe rapidly descended into the horrors of the Holocaust, which is why I speak out against anti-semitism every chance I get, including on this site, on NPR and in a podcast for the Holocaust Museum.

As Judea Pearl, a man who turned unspeakable grief into remarkable grace, put it in his letter to the Chairman of the Washington Post Don Graham: “Too many people were killed, abused or dispossessed in the past century by words of irresponsible authors, often disguised as scholars or humanitarians, who pointed fingers at, and blamed one segment of society for the ills and maladies in the world.”

There was such an outcry about Gandhi’s article (justifiable, in my estimation) that the editors of “On Faith” apologized for posting Gandhi’s piece, calling it “regrettable” and stating that it violated the site’s goal to “conduct a civil and illuminating conversation.”

I like these terms a lot – they suggest a sense of decency and fairness and inclusivity.

But, actually, there’s a bit of rub here.

That line above about Judaism having violence and oppression at its heart describes Arun Gandhi’s ugly post all too well. But it is actually taken from something else – Ayaan Hirsi Ali’s article on Islam from this site a few months ago.

The rules of a civil and illuminating conversation apply to everyone – all writers, all audiences – right?

If essentializing Jews as violent and oppressive is wrong, then baldly stating the same about Muslims is wrong too.

If we are concerned about the words of irresponsible authors who blame one entire group for the ills and maladies in the world, then we should be concerned about the words of irresponsible authors who blame another entire group for the ills and maladies in the world.

For me, this isn’t just about good journalism. It’s also about living up to the core of our faith.
My Jewish friends often quote Rabbi Hillel to me, “If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If I am only for myself, who am I?

I quote the Prophet Muhammad back to them, “None of you truly believes until he wants for his brother what he wants for himself.”

Here is what those two quotes mean right now: If you are a Muslim, you should seek fair treatment for your Jewish brothers and sisters in the press. If you are a Jew, you should seek the same for your Muslim brothers and sisters.

Anything less is both bad journalism and a violation of our faiths.

Footnote: In re-reading this post, I realize I may have been a bit unclear in saying Arun Gandhi’s contention that “violence and oppression” lie at the heart of Judaism “was taken” from an article by Ayaan Hirsi Ali. Hirsi Ali’s wrote that “violence and oppression” lie at the heart of Islam, not Judaism, and my point is that she characterized Islam in the same, offensive manner in which Gandhi characterized Judaism.

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  • HGSI

    How about A. Kafir, Ibrahim Mahfouz, Arif who have been vilifying Islam for the last several weeks here? They appear to be admirers of Hirsi Ali, who is another Islam basher–exclusively Islam basher.

  • A. Kafir

    Eboo, Eboo, Arun Gandhi was not saying that all. You said it so you can confuse the two issues of what Hirsi Ali said and what Arun Gandhi said. Arun Gandhi did not criticise Judaism but attacked jews. He did not say the fundamentals of judaism are at fault. Read his words. He did not address the religion at all. He said the people, the jews, were choosing to be violent. Now compare that to what Hirsi Ali is saying that you choose to bastardise:”It is through the first two of these five groups that progress and reform will come. As for the rest, the western world would be wise to recognize the realities of Islam, a religion laid down in writing over a millennium ago with violence and oppression at its heart.”She is praising two groups of muslims, the apostates and the people like Irshad Manji. She places her hopes in the reforming abilities of humans, of muslims themselves who are out to confront what is the 7th century ideology of hate. She calls Islam, the religion, as laid down a millennium ago with being a violent and opperessive ideology. But you are unable to see the difference, can you? You are unable to see that any religion should be and can be and must be open to criticism and questioning and evaluation, and one does not and must not condemn and incite hate against living and breathing humans. But to say that one cannot question the ideas that humans hold because they are held sacred by someone is denying the history of the world that led to separation of the church and the state. I have asked simple questions of muslims here and they do not want to answer. In the Quran, Allah ordains crucifixion and cutting of limbs as punsihments for fighting against Allah and Muhammad (Quran 5:33) Allah tells to cut off the hands of theives (Quran 5:38) and there are Sahih hadith of Muhammad ordering death by torture of Ukl tribesmen for murdering his shepard (he had their eyes burned, cut off their limbs, bled them to death in the hot desert, and denied them water when they begged for it). I cannot get a single muslim to say that these are inhumane and cruel punishments, and have no place in the modern world. Iran and Saudi Arabia still cut off limbs of humans and still subject women to death by torture (stoning to death) according to the Islamic sharia. These are barbaric practices. By asking muslims to comment on this is not trying to create hatred for them but to confront them with what Hirsi Ali correctly states that this is “violene and oppression” at the core of this ideology.

  • VICTORIA

    how is calling for muslims to educate others and defending free speech even when it disgrees with, or is openly hostile to ones philosophy, possibly, in any universe, construed as stifling free speech?

  • A. Kafir

    Eboo writes: “If essentializing Jews as violent and oppressive is wrong, then baldly stating the same about Muslims is wrong too.”Eboo, judaism and jews are not one and the same. Islam and muslims are not identical. Grasp that simple fact first. I assure you that you can spend a life time arguing judaism with jews without the jews wanting to kill you for saying that Moesha was fictional and the rabbis had it wrong. Try that with a muslim and the result is going to be very very different.The central problem is that muslim have painted themselves in a corner. Quran is the literal word of Allah. Muhammad is the last prophet and a “perfect” human. You cannot criticize or question either in any serious manner and still remain a muslim. Fortunately for the world, most muslims are ordinary humans and not much under the influence of Islam. It is when the muslims start taking Islam seriously that they are prone to what Robert Spencer terms the “sudden jihad syndrome”, and unfortunately he is right. Why don’t you come out in daylight and answer my questions on Islam? They are not going to go away. Do you support Allah’s injunction of cutting of hands for theives? Do you support Allah’s injunction for stoning of women to death for adultry? Do you support crucifixion or cutting of limbs for fighting against Allah and Muhammad?

  • marianne

    To place things in context-Arun Gandhi posted as a panelist answering the question-“We know what “Jewish identity” has meant in the past. What will it mean in the future? How does a minority religion retain its roots and embrace change?” His title- “Jewish Identity Can’t Depend on Violence”Ayaan Hirsi Ali posted as a guest voice. Her topic was titled-“My View of Islam- On holy war, apostasy, and the rights of women in Islam”Also note Hirsi Ali posted on August 2, 2007 and was following the week (July 2007) this forum devoted to Islam- MUSLIMS SPEAK OUT (So far, Islam is the only faith given a week to “speak out” on this forum.)

  • A. Kafir

    Eboo writes: I quote the Prophet Muhammad back to them, “None of you truly believes until he wants for his brother what he wants for himself.”And then Eboo proceeds to apply that “brother” to jews as in jewish brothers. Eboo, why lie? Muhammad never ever considered the jews as brothers.The hadiath that Eboo quotes is from Sahih Muslim:**********Book 001, Number 0072: It is arrested on the authority of Anas b. Malik that the Prophet (may peace and blessings be upon him) observed: one amongst you believes (truly) till one likes for his brother or for his neighbour that which he loves for himself.Book 001, Number 0073: It is narrated on the authority of Anas that the Prophet (may peace blessings be upon him) observed: By Him in whose Hand is my life, no, bondsman (truly) believes till he likes for his neighbour, or he (the Holy Prophet) said: for his brother, whatever he likes for himself.***************So the quote that Eboo attempts to use to fool the kafirs is direct only towards other muslims. Eboo, how many hadiths do you want me to list here showing Muhammad cursing the jews, telling how the jews were being tormented in the graves, showing the hatred towards the jews? Even the famous hadith you probably were told as a child where Muhammad tells to stand in respect for the funeral of a jew has a companion hadith where Muhammad sits down and tells the muslims to sit and behave differently than the grieving jews who were standing. Go ahead I challenge you to show that an unambiguous hadith where Muhammad treated the jews or the christians or the pagans as “brothers”. Do you really think your childish attempts at lies will not be shown to lies and will go unchallenged. The ignorant kaffirs may buy your lies, but ex-muslims did not reject islam easily. I know the lies you tell yourself and others.

  • VICTORIA

    hello k- have fun

  • dissapointed in Sally and Joe

    Mr. Patel’s article is directly on point. Where’s the equal treatment? Why hasn’t that thread on islam and violence, which basically invites people to make anti-islam statements and gives them a forum to do so, and by its mere title further cements the link between islam and violence in the public mind, been taken down?

  • Jojo

    I’m a decent person who wasn’t offended by Arun Gandhi’s quote. In fact, he was saying the truth….that jews can’t use violence to subdue the palestinians, because in that process they’ll destroy themselves. You have to remember that AG was born in South Africa and saw aparthied up close and personal, and he sees the same in current Israel. he said the truth even though he knew the zionazi lynching crew would come after him as they came after Jimmy Carter and Prof Finklestein. Hirsi Ali, on the other hand, is a convicted fraud and liar yet the jews and the washington post is all too eager to give her a platform because we know who pulls the strings here. Hirsi Ali has no values but she knows who pays for her meals.

  • A. Kafir

    Caliph,See what you have posted. The title of the article you are posting is “Muslim in Non-Muslim Lands”. Would you like to produce what are the laws for Non-Muslims in Muslim Lands? Start with the Pact of Umar, and then go down and find what the Sharia of the four madhabs and the two shia schools have to say about the right of non-muslims in muslim lands, and after that look at the laws in the various muslim countries. Go over that and then look at how absurd your cut and paste looks. Of course the Kafir laws afford you equality and you can write the nonsense you have written. Talk about the Islamic laws in muslim countries and then let the kafir see how great a treatment they get.

  • A. Kafir

    “Imam Shabrakhiti ibn Rajul al-Hambali and others mentioned that “brother” here not only means your brother Muslim because this is a close brotherhood of Islam that others are not in, but it refers to the greater and broader brotherhood of our Adamic nature.”How silly can you possibly get. The Imam, Imam Muslim, who collected the hadith, who decided that it was Sahih, he decides to put it under Brother-in-Islam and then you qoute nonsense from the Zaytuna Institute (hypocrites if ever there were) who quote him without providing any reference to why he said it, where he said or anything. And you don’t even know who Imam was, do you? So provide some references that they can be verified.

  • Anonymous

    “Eboo writes: I quote the Prophet Muhammad back to them, “None of you truly believes until he wants for his brother what he wants for himself.”In essence, Eboo quotes Hillel back to them-“What is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor: that is the whole Torah; all the rest of it is commentary; go and learn.”

  • A. Kafir

    [[In essence, Eboo quotes Hillel back to them-“What is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor: that is the whole Torah; all the rest of it is commentary; go and learn.”]]If only Muhammad had understood that. Instead Islam insisting that Quran is the literal word of Allah, has codified that such sentiments apply only to those who believe in Muhammad and not to others. The non-muslims are totally and completely excluded from any notion of the golden rule under Islam. That is the crux of the problem that the world faces and muslims cannot lie their way out of it. I pointed that out to Eboo when he wrote about Hajj. Non-muslims are not allowed in the two cities of Mecca and Medinah, cities housing millions, because the non-muslims are filthy and dirty according to the quran. How can those who are Najis be considered as neighbors let alone brothers. Eboo chooses to keep his ears closed.

  • A. Kafir

    Eboo has add a footnote:Eboo, Eboo, Eboo,You insist on sinking in the intellectual manure of your own creating. Please show a single mention of Judaism by Arun Gandhi. What Gandhi says is:”We have created a culture of violence (Israel and the Jews are the biggest players) and that Culture of Violence is eventually going to destroy humanity.” and then he proceeds on to say in his silly apology “I do not believe and should not have implied that the policies of the Israeli government are reflective of the views of all Jewish people.”Arun Gandhi blames the jews. Arun Gandhi suggests that it is the fault of the jews and has nothing to say about Judaism at all. So please show even a glancing mention of Judaism by Arun Gandhi in his articles.Hirsi Ali on the other hand clearly holds out the hope that it is Islam that is the problem and there are two categories of muslims who are trying to reform it. You take the classical position that Islam is ideal and perfect and if anything does wrong then it is because they are not following the Quran and the Sunnah of Muhammad properly. The muslims who do wrong it is because they do not know Islam. The problem with that, Eboo, is that Islamic history blies that line of thinking. Ahmedinejad quotes the Quran, Usama bin Laden qoutes the quran, Zawahiri quotes the Quran, and those who beheaded Daniel Pearl and others also quote the quran. There are tafsirs and explanations of Islam available online that show that your take is a minor view of a small minority. Are you an Agha Khani? Is that a few million out of 1.7 billion? Can you really even claim to speak for the traditional Islam? And then your view is not even consistent … you never clarify it, you never awnser any questions. It should even be obvious to you, that there is something in the Quran and the Sunnah of Muhammad that allows it to be quoted by people like Usama bin Laden, by Zawahiri, by Umar Sheikh, by Mawdudi, by Qutb, by Ghauri, by Abdali, by Timur, etc., all claiming that they will do “Qatl” of the kafir, and that this attitude is not acceptable to the Kafirs in this global village.

  • Ibrahim Mahfouz.

    Caliph:Pact of OmnarThe Pact of Omar is supposed to have been the peace accord offered by the Caliph Omar to the Christians of Syria, a “pact” which formed the pattern of later interaction.”In the name of God, the Merciful and Compassionate. This is a letter to the servant of God Omar [ibn al-Khattab], Commander of the Faithful, from the Christians of such-and-such a city. When you came against us, we asked you for safe-conduct (aman) for ourselves, our descendants, our property, and the people of our community, and we undertook the following obligations toward you:

  • VICTORIA

    caliph- k has many issues with islam and muslims- his modus operandi is always the same. heres a link to another question here where he actually accuses me of being a liar when i use the link he provided and posted the info on the board! and its wikipedia of all things. agreeing to disagree is the best that can be hoped for- as you can see, it just descends into ridiculous ad hominems

  • A. Kafir

    Mullah Revert Victoria,I am glad you posted that link. People who care will be able to see for themselves, whether you are a pathetic liar or just a plain moron or a combination of the two or not.

  • Anonymous

    A Kafir, you are right. The Muslims seem to emphasize the exemplary behaviour of Muslims in non-Muslim countries which are true democracies, where Muslims have all the freedom of non-Muslims.Mention non-Muslims and their rights in Muslim countries and the Muslims are up in arms calling names. Think of the following tactics employed by Muslims:Denial – Muslims never do any wrongProjection – what the Muslims do is pasted on somebody elseScapegoating – somebody else is always to blameSelf-righteousness – Muslims can do no wrongEntitlement – Muslims are entitled to the best treatment in all countries, but mention the right of non-Muslims in Muslim countries…

  • A. Kafir

    Caliph writes: “Muslims were vanished in America after 1492 and there is no holocaust Museum.”And “There were at least 20% Muslims among African Slaves in America and all were forcibly converted there under slavery.”Rubbish! Caliph you have written pure and unadulterated nonsense. Instead of trying to show your idiocy on every single point you have hallucinated up, I pick two above. Please show your references that show that there were muslim in America before 1492 and that 20% of the slaves from Africa were muslims. Let the Kafirs see standards of your scholarship.

  • VICTORIA

    if it was the following posts that proved me to be a liar, you should have posted them. posting on the islam and violence question doesnt make me a liar- it makes me responsive. you flatter me by attributing 1/3 to me, what does that prove? i take it youve been looking for lies, amd came back with nothing except one fragment of one sentence? in (according to you) over 500 posts- 1/2 of one sentence is all you found, yet no rebuttal as to HOW that is a lie? and why post the loink to the bible study? i doubt anyone is interested except detractors or trolls- but theres the post you referred to-

  • VICTORIA

    as you see caliph- since there is no logical rebuttal- k and his fellow bashers just descend into ad hominems. peace and salaams

  • vanessa

    Caliph asks:”Where is Holocaust for Millions Muslims”The greatest death threat to any Muslim today is other Muslims- Janjaweed/Africans, Sunni/Shiite, Hamas/Fatah and on and on. Honour killings where Muslim family members kill other family members.And Muslims killing other Muslims is not new. Since Mohammed’s time, his followers have fought each other savagely for bloody control. Why are no Muslim leaders speaking out against this tragedy?

  • Ibrahim Mahfouz

    Caliph:

  • Eboo Patel

    I just saw you on Good Morning America and googled your name.. I’ve been running ThePrimeSpot.com for since’99 and have steered clear of (sex politics) and religion.The focus of ThePrimeSpot.com is to bring together the passionate people of Long Beach regardless of their opposing opinions. “The LBC” in Southern CaLifornia is the most diverse city in the nation.I’m writing to thank you for your work and to subscribe LBweekly.com to your press releases!Looking Forward,KaRiAward Winner of USPS “Celebrate our Differences” slogan ;)

  • A. Kafir

    Caliph,Read what you post about the Americas known to muslims. It could mean any of so many things. However, even if you take that all those vague and ambiguous statements are referring to the Americas, how in the name of sanity, does that lead you to conclude that there were any muslims in the Americas before 1490’s?Even you should be able to see that you have not shown any evidence at all that shows that there were muslims in the Americas, and even if one accepts the wild assertion that they knew about the Americas that they were in significant numbers that one can talk about their “genocide”. So back up your assertions with some decent references. Till then that claims of yours is still rubbish.

  • Eboo Patel

    I just saw you on Good Morning America. I’d like to suscribe my newsletter LBweekly.com to yoursKeep up the great work!Looking Forward,KaRiPS I’d like to see a video of you asking OBLaden your question to him poste on YouTube!

  • Eboo Patel

    I just saw you on Good Morning America. I’d like to suscribe my newsletter LBweekly.com to yoursKeep up the great work!Looking Forward,KaRiPS I’d like to see a video of you asking OBLaden your question to him poste on YouTube!

  • Eboo Patel

    I just saw you on Good Morning America. I’d like to suscribe my newsletter LBweekly.com to yoursKeep up the great work!Looking Forward,KaRiPS I’d like to see a video of you asking OBLaden your question to him poste on YouTube!

  • Eboo Patel

    I just saw you on Good Morning America. I’d like to suscribe my newsletter LBweekly.com to yoursKeep up the great work!Looking Forward,KaRiPS I’d like to see a video of you asking OBLaden your question to him posted on YouTube!

  • Eboo Patel

    I just saw you on Good Morning America. I’d like to suscribe my newsletter LBweekly.com to yoursKeep up the great work!Looking Forward,KaRiPS I’d like to see a video of you asking OBLaden your question to him posted on YouTube!

  • Eboo Patel

    I just saw you on Good Morning America. I’d like to suscribe my newsletter LBweekly.com to yoursKeep up the great work!Looking Forward,KaRiPS I’d like to see a video of you asking OBLaden your question to him posted on YouTube!

  • A. Kafir

    Mullah Revert Victoria,Ad hominem would be if the topic or discussion was other than your character. Since the discussion is whether you are a liar or not, showing and commenting on your character is very very appropriate. You are a bald faced liar. You show no shame or the slightest hesitation to lie to defend the inhuman treatment that Islam doles out to non-muslims. I think it is important to post this on a regular basis to remind the readers know so your lies and posts can be read with appropriate caution. You are doing a wonderful job showing the utter and total moral bankruptcy of those who follow Muhammad and the quran. Keep it up.

  • A. Kafir

    Caliph, Due to the enormous length of the Arab Slave Trade, from 700 to 1911AD, it is impossible to be certain of the numbers of Africans sold in this system. Estimates place the numbers somewhere around 14 million: at least 9.6 million African women and 4.4 African men. It has been estimated that in all, at least 14 to 20 MILLION African men, women and children died throughout this trade. (Photos and Information courtesy of The Black Holocaust for Beginners by SE Anderson, A Pictorial History of the Slave Trade, Slave Trade of Eastern Africa by Beachy, Slavery in the Arab World by Gordon Murray and Africa in History by Basil Davidson)

  • A. Kafir

    Caliph:When you cannot answer directly, the standard fare and logic that Anonymous already pointed to is to play the victim and attack. You posted showing that muslims should treat non-muslims as brothers, and I pointed out to you that it is from muslims in Kafir lands, and so show us what the treatment and the laws are for Kafirs in muslim lands. You challenged the Imam Muslim hadiath by quoting a Tunsian Imam, and I challenged you by showing that it was Imam Muslim himself who classified the hadath under Muslim-Brotherhood. If the ahdeeth are that difficult to use then tell the Muslims not to pull them at randomly as Eboo had done. He pulls it and starts talking about “jewish brotherhood”!! Coming to questions you raise. Try to get it through to your head that I am not saying and have never said that Kafirs are saints and have never done anything wrong in history. I could argue with you about each one of those to try to attempt to put them in historical context, but that is not the point. Humans around the world have been violent and “barbarians” at one time or another. Europeans killed each other with abandon for hundreds of years, and the history books are filled with that. The issue is the present, and today. You write that I am spreading lies. What lies? Show me the lies!! Teach me. If I see any lies then I will change, and say so. I have no problem with that.Look at the news about the death sentence for simply downloading a paper off the internet!!! Why are not intelligent, educated, and enlightened muslims around the world in an uproar? Why is it that most muslims still think it is justified that if anyone even downloads a paper calling Muhammad a barbarian should be put to death?

  • VICTORIA

    thank you caliph- that was a blessing-

  • Ibrahim Mahfouz

    Kafir:

  • A. Kafir

    Mullah Victoria writes:”as for the repeated accusations of lies, it is sad- but unsubstantiated.You really are one unbelievably pathetic bald faced liar. Unsubstantiated? Your nose has been rubbed in the lies you tell, and you have the gall to say unsubstantiated. Anyone can read and see for themselves. Sheesh!

  • A. Kafir

    Caliph,The kafirs will not pay jiziya to the followers of the arab warlord, and slavery just does not pay anymore ( did you even bother reading that Islam killed about 20 million African Kafirs in the slave trade? And then all those slaves from South Asia!!) and the jihad does not pay anymore since the Europeans got more technically advanced. Immigration and moving to Europe was paying off, and now the Kafirs have even woken up to that. Perhaps this will encourage the muslims to get off their behinds and start working and trying to provide for themselves. Looting and stealing from others does not work. Muslims should learn to control their populations because the Kafirs are not going to let them march in as they overpopulate and destroy their own countries.

  • Ibrahim Mahfouz

    Caliph:

  • A. Kafir

    Caliph writes:Caliph you do not know Islam very well then. Muhammad enslaved thousands. He owned slaves, each of his wives owned many slaves. He gifted slaves to his followers. He traded slaves. Muslims alway trot out Bilal. Read the link I gave you. The attack was and is against the Kafir blacks of africa, i.e. the majority. The slaves were then converted to islam. 033.052If Islam does not allow slaver, then tell me what is allah talking about “right hand possesseth”? The above verse is the one that the sultan and the moghuls used to have harems of thousand of female sex slaves. Islam allows four wives but as many right hand possessions as you want. Please go learn your Islam.

  • hmm

    “they have a principal in Islam called “Taqiyeh” where it is Halal or “permissible” to lie in order to advance their religious causes”victoria and others have placed their faith in a belief system encouraging them to lie to unbelievers for “religious causes”? but what keeps them from being lied to by their religious leaders for “religious causes”? if they are told it is because they “believe” how do they know that is not a lie? and what sort of “all powerful creator” can’t defend himself and needs his followers to lie for his causes?

  • Arif

    Our Caliph writes;Dear Caliph, Hazrat Bilal you say “…Hazrat Bilal returned to Syria and then lived there permanently and continued taking part in jihad.”Do tell us please what kind of Jihad did Bilal take part in? I can bet he was a warrior and “converted/reverted/killed” people for Islam. This is the jihad that Insahllah! We Kafirs will stifle for you Muslims in the modern world today.

  • Vinay

    Mr. Patel,You would have pleasantly shocked me if your essay had just stopped at the criticism of Arun Gandhi’s article but somehow you brought your narrow-minded Islamist view point into the same essay.Comapring Jews with Muslims: Jews with one nation under constant threat of being wiped out by Muslims has about 30 percent Muslim population. How many Jews or Non-Muslims live in 50 plus intolerant Islamic nations, including land of your very “compassionate and tolerant” prophet??Just one more thing: even the scathing and extremely insulting writings by Gandhi against Jews did not bring out even one bodily injury or death threat against Gandhi. And you compared that with Ayaan Ali Hirsi!! How many death threats against her?? Does she have any freedom to move around? And what happened to her friend Van Gogh? Religion of peace??

  • Sari

    Amen Dr. Patel. This is beautifully said…I want to make a point about the Hillel quote. The purpose of the quote is that we should all endeavor to live lives in balance. If I am never for myself, then who will be for me. Translation… if I do not take care of myself, how can I expect others to do it? This is a viewpoint that not only extends to the individual but also to the Jewish community. If I am sick with bronchitis but I still go to work, how can I expect others to take care of me. Likewise, if the Judaism is demonized by hate speech and we do not defend ourselves, how can we expect others to do so? If I am only for myself, what am I? Translation: If I am selfish and do not help others, then what kind of person am I? If I do not help others in need, if I only concern myself with myself and my community alone, what kind of person does that make me? Implication: not a very good one. If not now, when? Translation: lets start working toward that balance in our lives today. Lets start balancing the needs to help, assist, love and defend ourselves and our own personal communities with the need to do so for others.Let’s be good to ourselves and good to each other.

  • VICTORIA

    just repeating an opinion doesnt change it from being a subjective opinion k-

  • A. Kafir

    Mullah Victoria Writes: ” just repeating an opinion doesnt change it from being a subjective opinion k-Victoria, you are a disgusting bald faced liar, and the more the readers here get to know your pathological need to lie the better off they will be. The readers who are interested can look at the discussion around **************and posts in Any statement you make should be discounted and ignored. It is a good idea to post this reminder occasionally in response to your posts to alert the new readers. Ibrahim pointed out that lying and deception is acceptable in Islam and you seem to have accepted that since you have not the slightest shame about lying or making up outrageously false facts.

  • A. Kafir

    Mullah Victoria,You are pathetic and a pathological liar. People can read for themselves, and they can decide whether the posts that I am addressing there are valid or not.

  • VICTORIA

    are you kidding k? your references are your own posts calling me a liar! i notice you never use MY WORDS-but post only your own accusations. you must be very frustrated in your search. now youre just being silly. A- k says victoria is a liar how desparate for attention are you anyway?

  • Katherine Lloyd

    Many Christian fail to remember that our Saviour Jesus Christ was a Jew. I was appalled recently when our local librarian referred to the Holocaust as a “sad” time.Indeed, 6 million men women and tiny children is more than sad, it is an abomination.Katherine Lloyd

  • Anonymous

    Eboo:You son of Gujrathi. Forget not you were born in the Back Yard of Gandhiji’s house. How come you say Mr. Arun is hurting, while he is speaking the truth. Have you ever heard America is a free country. Freedom of speech is fundamental to the rights of every human.Arun Gandhi is a noble man. And he is certainly not a bigot.

  • woww

    kafir and your fellow accomplices why dont u guyz discuss judaism instead harp all the time about islam it probably shows that you have bias against islam calling others liars whereas you are so truthful anybody talking about christianity judaism you bring islam is violent in the blog instead of discussing about the topic washington post when apologizes for anti semitic comments[ which i didnt think they were] should also shed some light about folks who infiltrate these posts and just cry about the same thing which they have been saying for the last some years taking readers away from the discussion or washington post can introduce a new blog for friendz like kafir and christian who sez is now liberated [probably converted to judaism] the hidden agenda blog.

  • A. Kafir

    WoWW writes:”it probably shows that you have bias against islam calling others liars whereas you are so truthful anybody talking about christianity judaism you bring islam is violent”I have shown where Mullah Victoria has lied. I have provided links to show where you can go and read see the lies she has told. Why don’t you provide where I have not been truthful about christianity or judaism. I know the knee jerk reaction of any muslim. Ask a question about Islam and instead of getting a straight answer it invariably is a finger at jews and christians to show how awful they are. How does that answer anything about Islam? So please point out where I have lied about any of the religions? You tip your hand when you say you “kafir and christian who sez is now liberated [probably converted to judaism] the hidden agenda blog.” I know you cannot help yourself when many hundreds of verses in the Quran Allah curses the jews and tells the muslim that he hates the jews. And then you say:Not surprising you would not consider anyone saying that jews have elected to be violent and are leading the world in violence etc. to be anti-semtic. Arun Gandhi is a dhimmi who is incapable of doing the simple math of seeing how many muslims have been killed by the jews over the last 60 years and how many muslim have been killed by other muslims over the same time, and then write what he wrote with any decency. Pakistani mullahs killed 3 million Bangalis in 1971 for the bangalis being not proper muslims but half hindus. In Sudan about 4 million (mostly muslims) have been killed by other muslims and the killings are still going on. Add to that the killings that Saddam did of his own muslims over the years, or Assad of Syria did, or Hussain of Jordan did, or the fighting between the palestinians have done and any number that you can conjure up for the jews or the americans killing of the muslims is put to shame. Go ahead do the simple math.

  • VICTORIA

    you havent proven anything k- as ive challenged you repeatedly to post ONE INSTANCE WHERE I HAVE LIED- it seems you have become that of which you accuse.

  • Anonymous

    Mr. Patel,You are quite write in suggesting that Muslims and Jews should seek fair treatment for one another, and I, for one, have been seeking to do so, rampant Muslim anti-Jewish racism notwithstanding. I do this notwithstanding the fact that three million Jewish refugees from the Middle East look across the seas to ancient civilizations destroyed. I do this, quite simply, because I am a Jew, because I welcome the stranger, not when he is trying to kill me, but in the hopes that he will accept my strangeness, as well.Arun Ghandi’s hate speech was despicable. That he is still on this site is reprehensible. That you voice your disapproval is commendable. That you reduce the issue to what’s good for the goose is good for the gander is not. Mr. Ali’s essay, which I have just read is objectionable, indeed. Had I read it earlier I would have commented and probably still will. However, he has nothing to do with Arun Ghandi’s loathsome rhetoric.Jews do speak out for Muslim rights everywhere, including on this site, often in the face of haters like one “Moody,” who is chock full of the old racist cannards. I have yet to see one Muslim post his/her concerns about antisemitism. Through all the conferences and colloquia I have attended, I have yet to see one Muslim academic speak out against antisemititsm, while Jews are in the forefront of those seeking tolerance of our Muslim brothers and sisters.But we Jews are a patient people, an optimistic people. I am in a covenant with Hashem, and normative Judaism holds that the Lord has a covenant with all peoples. I eschew racism in all its forms, but, yes, if I am not for myself, who will be for me? We Jews say this more and more to one another now because we believe we have been too concerned about racism against others and too little concerned about racism directed against us.I would welcome some comment on the treatment of Middle Eastern Jews in Syria, Egypt, Iran, Yemen, Iraq. I would welcome some comment about how they were persecuted and why there are next to none left there. I would welcome some comment about the continuous Nazi style anti-Jewish racism that abounds in those nations and in so many others, Saudi Arabia prominent among them. I would welcome some comment about the rights of those Middle Eastern Jews to return to their countries.As for Israel, I would welcome some comment about why Jews do not have the right to self-determination. We were exiled from our country by the Romans, then by the Christians, then by the Turkish Muslims. Throughout, Jews remained despite persecution, right through the Crusades. Only a few years ago, despite the overwhelming evidence that the Clinton “Peace Plan” could not work, ever optimistic and patient, Israeli Jews went along with it. Palistinians got 96% of what they wanted. Palistinian Christians began to flee into Israel as Muslim violence against them accelerated, and Israel, of course, accepted them. They are still fleeing into Israel.Well, the so-called acceptance of the plan revealed itself for the sham that it was with renewed violence against Israeli Jews. How long would the US tolerate violence such as Israel has undergone, if it came say, from Mexico? Afterall, the US stole California, Texas, and much of the Southwest from Mexico. How long? A minute? Thirty seconds?We did not steal. We were stolen from. And we have returned. The fact that we actually purchased much of the land we returned to is ironic, but we will let that pass. We are going nowhere. The word “Jerusalem” is mentioned thousands of times in the Hebrew Bible. Do you know how many times it is mentioned in the Arabic Koran? None. Not a single time. Not once. When Jews pray, they face Jerusalem. They always have. Prayers end, “Next year, in Jerusalem.”When Moshe Dyan won the six-day war, he stood at the Temple Mount, and Jews all over the world stood with him. We could pray in Solomon’s temple. This year, this year in Jerusalem. But no, we could not. The Palestinian Muslims would be too distressed. But we are distressed, Mr. Patel, very distressed. We remain distressed. When we go to Hebrew University and see all the burned boys, the boys with burns suffered because they were too worried about doing harm to innocents when entering the homes of terrorists, well, we are distressed.I wonder that more Muslims do not cry out at the corruption among Palestinians, of so many living high on the hog, while others starve, the sort of thing that ended with the killing of Arafat’s nephew, that reveals itself in some having multiple Mercedes while others have nothing. I wonder that more Muslims do not cry out at the fact that one on every three murders among Palestinians is an honor killing.I wonder that more Muslims do not cry out against Gujurat. Against INdia, where they are second-class citizens at best. Safer to strike out against Jews, I guess. Or, at least, that is what they appear to think.Sadly, with my own commitment to justice, I am one of those who makes it safer.If I am not for myself, who will be for me?

  • Anonymous

    Mr. Patel,You are quite write in suggesting that Muslims and Jews should seek fair treatment for one another, and I, for one, have been seeking to do so, rampant Muslim anti-Jewish racism notwithstanding. I do this notwithstanding the fact that three million Jewish refugees from the Middle East look across the seas to ancient civilizations destroyed. I do this, quite simply, because I am a Jew, because I welcome the stranger, not when he is trying to kill me, but in the hopes that he will accept my strangeness, as well.Arun Ghandi’s hate speech was despicable. That he is still on this site is reprehensible. That you voice your disapproval is commendable. That you reduce the issue to what’s good for the goose is good for the gander is not. Mr. Ali’s essay, which I have just read is objectionable, indeed. Had I read it earlier I would have commented and probably still will. However, he has nothing to do with Arun Ghandi’s loathsome rhetoric.Jews do speak out for Muslim rights everywhere, including on this site, often in the face of haters like one “Moody,” who is chock full of the old racist cannards. I have yet to see one Muslim post his/her concerns about antisemitism. Through all the conferences and colloquia I have attended, I have yet to see one Muslim academic speak out against antisemititsm, while Jews are in the forefront of those seeking tolerance of our Muslim brothers and sisters.But we Jews are a patient people, an optimistic people. I am in a covenant with Hashem, and normative Judaism holds that the Lord has a covenant with all peoples. I eschew racism in all its forms, but, yes, if I am not for myself, who will be for me? We Jews say this more and more to one another now because we believe we have been too concerned about racism against others and too little concerned about racism directed against us.I would welcome some comment on the treatment of Middle Eastern Jews in Syria, Egypt, Iran, Yemen, Iraq. I would welcome some comment about how they were persecuted and why there are next to none left there. I would welcome some comment about the continuous Nazi style anti-Jewish racism that abounds in those nations and in so many others, Saudi Arabia prominent among them. I would welcome some comment about the rights of those Middle Eastern Jews to return to their countries.As for Israel, I would welcome some comment about why Jews do not have the right to self-determination. We were exiled from our country by the Romans, then by the Christians, then by the Turkish Muslims. Throughout, Jews remained despite persecution, right through the Crusades. Only a few years ago, despite the overwhelming evidence that the Clinton “Peace Plan” could not work, ever optimistic and patient, Israeli Jews went along with it. Palistinians got 96% of what they wanted. Palistinian Christians began to flee into Israel as Muslim violence against them accelerated, and Israel, of course, accepted them. They are still fleeing into Israel.Well, the so-called acceptance of the plan revealed itself for the sham that it was with renewed violence against Israeli Jews. How long would the US tolerate violence such as Israel has undergone, if it came say, from Mexico? Afterall, the US stole California, Texas, and much of the Southwest from Mexico. How long? A minute? Thirty seconds?We did not steal. We were stolen from. And we have returned. The fact that we actually purchased much of the land we returned to is ironic, but we will let that pass. We are going nowhere. The word “Jerusalem” is mentioned thousands of times in the Hebrew Bible. Do you know how many times it is mentioned in the Arabic Koran? None. Not a single time. Not once. When Jews pray, they face Jerusalem. They always have. Prayers end, “Next year, in Jerusalem.”When Moshe Dyan won the six-day war, he stood at the Temple Mount, and Jews all over the world stood with him. We could pray in Solomon’s temple. This year, this year in Jerusalem. But no, we could not. The Palestinian Muslims would be too distressed. But we are distressed, Mr. Patel, very distressed. We remain distressed. When we go to Hebrew University and see all the burned boys, the boys with burns suffered because they were too worried about doing harm to innocents when entering the homes of terrorists, well, we are distressed.I wonder that more Muslims do not cry out at the corruption among Palestinians, of so many living high on the hog, while others starve, the sort of thing that ended with the killing of Arafat’s nephew, that reveals itself in some having multiple Mercedes while others have nothing. I wonder that more Muslims do not cry out at the fact that one on every three murders among Palestinians is an honor killing.I wonder that more Muslims do not cry out against Gujurat. Against INdia, where they are second-class citizens at best. Safer to strike out against Jews, I guess. Or, at least, that is what they appear to think.Sadly, with my own commitment to justice, I am one of those who makes it safer.If I am not for myself, who will be for me?

  • Anonymous

    Mr. Patel,You are quite write in suggesting that Muslims and Jews should seek fair treatment for one another, and I, for one, have been seeking to do so, rampant Muslim anti-Jewish racism notwithstanding. I do this notwithstanding the fact that three million Jewish refugees from the Middle East look across the seas to ancient civilizations destroyed. I do this, quite simply, because I am a Jew, because I welcome the stranger, not when he is trying to kill me, but in the hopes that he will accept my strangeness, as well.Arun Ghandi’s hate speech was despicable. That he is still on this site is reprehensible. That you voice your disapproval is commendable. That you reduce the issue to what’s good for the goose is good for the gander is not. Mr. Ali’s essay, which I have just read is objectionable, indeed. Had I read it earlier I would have commented and probably still will. However, he has nothing to do with Arun Ghandi’s loathsome rhetoric.Jews do speak out for Muslim rights everywhere, including on this site, often in the face of haters like one “Moody,” who is chock full of the old racist cannards. I have yet to see one Muslim post his/her concerns about antisemitism. Through all the conferences and colloquia I have attended, I have yet to see one Muslim academic speak out against antisemititsm, while Jews are in the forefront of those seeking tolerance of our Muslim brothers and sisters.But we Jews are a patient people, an optimistic people. I am in a covenant with Hashem, and normative Judaism holds that the Lord has a covenant with all peoples. I eschew racism in all its forms, but, yes, if I am not for myself, who will be for me? We Jews say this more and more to one another now because we believe we have been too concerned about racism against others and too little concerned about racism directed against us.I would welcome some comment on the treatment of Middle Eastern Jews in Syria, Egypt, Iran, Yemen, Iraq. I would welcome some comment about how they were persecuted and why there are next to none left there. I would welcome some comment about the continuous Nazi style anti-Jewish racism that abounds in those nations and in so many others, Saudi Arabia prominent among them. I would welcome some comment about the rights of those Middle Eastern Jews to return to their countries.As for Israel, I would welcome some comment about why Jews do not have the right to self-determination. We were exiled from our country by the Romans, then by the Christians, then by the Turkish Muslims. Throughout, Jews remained despite persecution, right through the Crusades. Only a few years ago, despite the overwhelming evidence that the Clinton “Peace Plan” could not work, ever optimistic and patient, Israeli Jews went along with it. Palistinians got 96% of what they wanted. Palistinian Christians began to flee into Israel as Muslim violence against them accelerated, and Israel, of course, accepted them. They are still fleeing into Israel.Well, the so-called acceptance of the plan revealed itself for the sham that it was with renewed violence against Israeli Jews. How long would the US tolerate violence such as Israel has undergone, if it came say, from Mexico? Afterall, the US stole California, Texas, and much of the Southwest from Mexico. How long? A minute? Thirty seconds?We did not steal. We were stolen from. And we have returned. The fact that we actually purchased much of the land we returned to is ironic, but we will let that pass. We are going nowhere. The word “Jerusalem” is mentioned thousands of times in the Hebrew Bible. Do you know how many times it is mentioned in the Arabic Koran? None. Not a single time. Not once. When Jews pray, they face Jerusalem. They always have. Prayers end, “Next year, in Jerusalem.”When Moshe Dyan won the six-day war, he stood at the Temple Mount, and Jews all over the world stood with him. We could pray in Solomon’s temple. This year, this year in Jerusalem. But no, we could not. The Palestinian Muslims would be too distressed. But we are distressed, Mr. Patel, very distressed. We remain distressed. When we go to Hebrew University and see all the burned boys, the boys with burns suffered because they were too worried about doing harm to innocents when entering the homes of terrorists, well, we are distressed.I wonder that more Muslims do not cry out at the corruption among Palestinians, of so many living high on the hog, while others starve, the sort of thing that ended with the killing of Arafat’s nephew, that reveals itself in some having multiple Mercedes while others have nothing. I wonder that more Muslims do not cry out at the fact that one on every three murders among Palestinians is an honor killing.I wonder that more Muslims do not cry out against Gujurat. Against INdia, where they are second-class citizens at best. Safer to strike out against Jews, I guess. Or, at least, that is what they appear to think.Sadly, with my own commitment to justice, I am one of those who makes it safer.If I am not for myself, who will be for me?

  • Anonymous

    Mr. Patel,You are quite write in suggesting that Muslims and Jews should seek fair treatment for one another, and I, for one, have been seeking to do so, rampant Muslim anti-Jewish racism notwithstanding. I do this notwithstanding the fact that three million Jewish refugees from the Middle East look across the seas to ancient civilizations destroyed. I do this, quite simply, because I am a Jew, because I welcome the stranger, not when he is trying to kill me, but in the hopes that he will accept my strangeness, as well.Arun Ghandi’s hate speech was despicable. That he is still on this site is reprehensible. That you voice your disapproval is commendable. That you reduce the issue to what’s good for the goose is good for the gander is not. Mr. Ali’s essay, which I have just read is objectionable, indeed. Had I read it earlier I would have commented and probably still will. However, he has nothing to do with Arun Ghandi’s loathsome rhetoric.Jews do speak out for Muslim rights everywhere, including on this site, often in the face of haters like one “Moody,” who is chock full of the old racist cannards. I have yet to see one Muslim post his/her concerns about antisemitism. Through all the conferences and colloquia I have attended, I have yet to see one Muslim academic speak out against antisemititsm, while Jews are in the forefront of those seeking tolerance of our Muslim brothers and sisters.But we Jews are a patient people, an optimistic people. I am in a covenant with Hashem, and normative Judaism holds that the Lord has a covenant with all peoples. I eschew racism in all its forms, but, yes, if I am not for myself, who will be for me? We Jews say this more and more to one another now because we believe we have been too concerned about racism against others and too little concerned about racism directed against us.I would welcome some comment on the treatment of Middle Eastern Jews in Syria, Egypt, Iran, Yemen, Iraq. I would welcome some comment about how they were persecuted and why there are next to none left there. I would welcome some comment about the continuous Nazi style anti-Jewish racism that abounds in those nations and in so many others, Saudi Arabia prominent among them. I would welcome some comment about the rights of those Middle Eastern Jews to return to their countries.As for Israel, I would welcome some comment about why Jews do not have the right to self-determination. We were exiled from our country by the Romans, then by the Christians, then by the Turkish Muslims. Throughout, Jews remained despite persecution, right through the Crusades. Only a few years ago, despite the overwhelming evidence that the Clinton “Peace Plan” could not work, ever optimistic and patient, Israeli Jews went along with it. Palistinians got 96% of what they wanted. Palistinian Christians began to flee into Israel as Muslim violence against them accelerated, and Israel, of course, accepted them. They are still fleeing into Israel.Well, the so-called acceptance of the plan revealed itself for the sham that it was with renewed violence against Israeli Jews. How long would the US tolerate violence such as Israel has undergone, if it came say, from Mexico? Afterall, the US stole California, Texas, and much of the Southwest from Mexico. How long? A minute? Thirty seconds?We did not steal. We were stolen from. And we have returned. The fact that we actually purchased much of the land we returned to is ironic, but we will let that pass. We are going nowhere. The word “Jerusalem” is mentioned thousands of times in the Hebrew Bible. Do you know how many times it is mentioned in the Arabic Koran? None. Not a single time. Not once. When Jews pray, they face Jerusalem. They always have. Prayers end, “Next year, in Jerusalem.”When Moshe Dyan won the six-day war, he stood at the Temple Mount, and Jews all over the world stood with him. We could pray in Solomon’s temple. This year, this year in Jerusalem. But no, we could not. The Palestinian Muslims would be too distressed. But we are distressed, Mr. Patel, very distressed. We remain distressed. When we go to Hebrew University and see all the burned boys, the boys with burns suffered because they were too worried about doing harm to innocents when entering the homes of terrorists, well, we are distressed.I wonder that more Muslims do not cry out at the corruption among Palestinians, of so many living high on the hog, while others starve, the sort of thing that ended with the killing of Arafat’s nephew, that reveals itself in some having multiple Mercedes while others have nothing. I wonder that more Muslims do not cry out at the fact that one on every three murders among Palestinians is an honor killing.I wonder that more Muslims do not cry out against Gujurat. Against INdia, where they are second-class citizens at best. Safer to strike out against Jews, I guess. Or, at least, that is what they appear to think.Sadly, with my own commitment to justice, I am one of those who makes it safer.If I am not for myself, who will be for me?

  • Ibrahim Mahfouz

    Anonymous Jew: